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InvisibleSoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst

Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 1,690
How much education does one need?
    #3678011 - 01/25/05 03:52 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

After B_H's post about self-provided education and the replies that come with it, I'm wondering just how much education the average person really does require. It's almost a cliche that "noone uses algebra" (of course, I use it frequently, but I'm a pre-med student). Why are we paying for people to learn Algebra if they most likely won't need it? A great deal of people in this nation work mediocre jobs that have very low educational requirements. How much education, or how little, should be considered basic education?

Under the assumption that it's the taxpayers job to fund education for the masses, which is a basic premise that I don't agree with but it's required for the argument, why should the taxpayers be funding education that isn't going to be used? Why should people who's job description involves changing the lubricative petroleum products in engines be taught how to calculate the area of a square? I see no purpose for this.


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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man


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Invisibleblacksabbathrulz
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Registered: 05/22/02
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Re: How much education does one need? [Re: SoopaX]
    #3678184 - 01/25/05 04:24 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I think high school and 2 years of college (non-liberal arts) should be considered basic education. Whilst there are a huge number of incredibly smart US citizens, some people are dumb enough to think the atkins diet is good, rap music is intelligent, carbohydrates are somehow bad for you, despite the fact the brain uses them for fuel, people think illegal street racing is cool in souped up rice burners, people speak ebonics, watch mtv etc. If people were more educated, I'm thinking that so many people wouldn't fall pray to hype and bullshit marketing.


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InvisibleCalifornia
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Re: How much education does one need? [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #3678331 - 01/25/05 04:47 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Education should never stop.  One needs as much as they believe they do to accomplish what they wish.

blacksabbathrulz- "people wouldn't fall pray" should read 'people wouldn't fall prey'.
I am not trying to be a spelling/grammar cop, but since the topic of this thread is EDUCATION I felt I had to make a constructive comment.
:grin:


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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: How much education does one need? [Re: SoopaX]
    #3679183 - 01/25/05 08:14 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Although I am a product of higher education, I avidly support the notion that it is not for everyone and if I could do it all over again, I may have not even gone to college.

To me, a HUGE problem is the GED. I could have simply passed the GED when I was 16 because I had already educated myself beyond a typical high-school level. However, employers in this country see GEDs as nothing but "high-school dropouts", not as intelligent people capable of rapid success. Now, if you graduate early based on advancement by an authority figure then it is ok but im sure anyone with half a brain can see the flaws in that. I have worked as a chemist in a factory environment and I can tell you that those people are paid VERY well but they also had to try hard to get those jobs as well.

I won't hijack your thread like i did the education thread so you can just go there to see what i think would be the answer...basically a system that allows more freedom of when you can move from academics to the working world.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: How much education does one need? [Re: Catalysis]
    #3680613 - 01/26/05 12:43 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)


However, employers in this country see GEDs as nothing but "high-school dropouts", not as intelligent people capable of rapid success.

Ironically the GED is much harder to pass than high school is. You need to know algebra, geometry, some trig., etc..etc.. I didn't even know how to do simple algebra by the time I graduated high school. I didn't learn a thing from grades 9-12.


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InvisibleSoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst

Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 1,690
Re: How much education does one need? [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #3683224 - 01/26/05 03:25 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

But how much of that education do you think should be required? Two years of college isn't necesary if your goal in life is to be trailer trash and work at the local factory for the next 60 years until you croak.


--------------------


Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man


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Offlinedeafpanda
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Re: How much education does one need? [Re: SoopaX]
    #3683401 - 01/26/05 03:59 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Common sense lessons, logical thinking lessons, basic maths (up to algebra), literacy and basic science should be compulsory. You could do all this by the age of 14, I reckon, and get out and work if you want to.

Kids need to be taught how to think more than they need their minds stuffed with useless knowledge.


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InvisiblePaou
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Re: How much education does one need? [Re: SoopaX]
    #3683435 - 01/26/05 04:06 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

It depends on what you mean by "need." There's a lot of jobs that require a college degree, but you don't really need to know anything that they don't already train you in. I think in many jobs, they care more about a piece of paper than what you actually know.


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Offlinei_rage_against
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Re: How much education does one need? [Re: Paou]
    #3683662 - 01/26/05 04:43 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

"Kids need to be taught how to think more than they need their minds stuffed with useless knowledge."

I agree with deafpanda. The American public school system is not about learning, it's not about encouraging kids, it's about a massive effort to turn out of bunch of mediocre people who are afraid to oppose their higher officials.


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whoever told you that is your enemy.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: How much education does one need? [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #3683685 - 01/26/05 04:48 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

people are dumb enough to think (...) rap music is intelligent

This from someone with an Ozzy quote in his signature. Anyone who can't understand why groups like De La Soul or Tribe Called Quest put out more intelligent music than Black Sabbath isn't approaching the subject without prejudice.

Ironman was so complex... and with such insightful lyrics.  :rolleyes:


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Offlinecb9fl
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Re: How much education does one need? [Re: Phluck]
    #3683709 - 01/26/05 04:55 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Since the people of the country are expected to vote for their representatives I would expect them to be informed individuals. I think the fact that citizens can and often will vote should be factored into the need for education. Understanding Greek and Roman history might not help with your new $20/hr construction job but it may very well give you a better perspective on what to look for in a candidate.


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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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InvisibleSoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst

Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 1,690
Re: How much education does one need? [Re: Phluck]
    #3688143 - 01/27/05 12:56 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Dude, Ozzy is a fucking god. Some G Dawg rappin about crack smoking and cappin' ho's on the street cohnuh to a synthetic drum machine doesn't even compare. How many songs does Ozzy write encouraging promiscuity, hard drug abuse and the glorification of violence?


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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man


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InvisiblePaou
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Registered: 09/23/04
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Re: How much education does one need? [Re: SoopaX]
    #3688152 - 01/27/05 01:00 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SoopaX said:
Dude, Ozzy is a fucking god. Some G Dawg rappin about crack smoking and cappin' ho's on the street cohnuh to a synthetic drum machine doesn't even compare. How many songs does Ozzy write encouraging promiscuity, hard drug abuse and the glorification of violence?



See, what you're talking about there is not the kind of hip hop Phluck's talking about. Not all hip hop is about pimpin ho's and selling drugs any more than all heavy metal is about Satan worship and human sacrifice.


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InvisibleSoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst

Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 1,690
Re: How much education does one need? [Re: Paou]
    #3688207 - 01/27/05 01:15 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

FOREST > TREES


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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man


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Offlinedeafpanda
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Registered: 05/07/04
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Re: How much education does one need? [Re: SoopaX]
    #3689380 - 01/27/05 06:35 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Well most metal is stupid teen angsty wank, but that doesn't stop the good acts from being good. There is intelligent hip-hop.


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OfflineCatalysis
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Registered: 04/23/02
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Re: How much education does one need? [Re: deafpanda]
    #3690304 - 01/27/05 09:36 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

No, you are talking about emo/punk crap. Most metal Ive heard is very philosophical and intelligent if you actually listen to it...even death metal. Take Chuck Schuldinger (sp) from Death (rest his soul), he wrote some of the most philosophical, enlightening lyrics i have ever heard/read. I know you'll probably never listen to it because of pre-dispositions, however just search for some lyrics and read them real quick.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: How much education does one need? [Re: Catalysis]
    #3690411 - 01/27/05 09:58 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I've also heard lots of melodramatic, pseudo-intelligent metal lyrics.

The point here is dismissing all rap music as stupid is no more rational than dismissing all metal as stupid.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: How much education does one need? [Re: Phluck]
    #3690490 - 01/27/05 10:11 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Here's some intelligent music. Fits my thoughts pretty damn well.


Greenday - Macy's Day Parade Lyrics

Today's the Macy's Day Parade
the night of the living dead is on its way
with a credit report for duty call
it's a lifetime guarantee
stuffed in a coffin 10% more free
Red light special at the mausoleum

Give me something that I need
satisfaction guaranteed to you
what's the consolation prize?
economy sized dreams of hope

when I was a kid I thought
I wanted all the things that I haven't got
oh. I learned the hardest way
Then I realized what it took
To tell the difference between
thieves and crooks
when all along it was me and you

Give me something that I need
Satisfaction guaranteed
Because I'm thinking about
a brand new hope
the one I've never known
cause now I know
it's all that I wanted

what's the consolation prize?
economy sized dreams of hope
Give me something that I need
Satisfaction guaranteed
Because I'm thinking about
a brand new hope
the one I've never known
and where it goes
and I'm thinking about
the only road
the one I've never known
and where it goes

Because I'm thinking about
a brand new hope
the one I've never known
cause now I know
it's all that I wanted


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
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Re: How much education does one need? [Re: cb9fl]
    #3690534 - 01/27/05 10:17 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Thats pretty cool.

Well as long as this topic is totally derailed. :p


Without Judgement by Chuck Schulinger RIP


Guilty until proven innocent
We condemn your soul and fate
Never mind the possibilities
Too busy for logic or to calculate

Take part in a diminishing breed
Where complex turns to simplicity
When pain is acknowledged
Frivolous calculations will be abolished

Chorus:
Without judgement what would we do?
We would be forced to look
At ourselves emerged in lost time
Assuming what may be
Without judgement
Perception would increase a million times

Solo: Schuldiner

Distracted by imagination
That experiments with ease
If you could taste it, it might be addictive
Where life will crush those who defy

Take part in a diminishing breed
Where complex turns to simplicity
When pain is acknowledged
Frivolous calculations will be abolished


Sure, its no Nellytm but I think its pretty intelligent.  :grin:


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InvisibleJohan Shultz
no title

Registered: 09/26/00
Posts: 168
Loc: UTOPIA
Re: How much education does one need? [Re: SoopaX]
    #3690569 - 01/27/05 10:22 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SoopaX said:
... Why should people who's job description involves changing the lubricative petroleum products in engines be taught how to calculate the area of a square? I see no purpose for this.




hmm...yeah that's right! We need more dumb asses among us, so mr. MDs or mr. MBAs can FOX them hard :crazy2: :crazy2: :crazy2:

:cool:Just kidding. Peace!:cool:


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