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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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"It is never necessary to fight"
    #3674263 - 01/24/05 10:10 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

so long as everyone believes that phrase as I do.


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InvisiblePaou
Seeker

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 376
Loc: Transcendence
Re: "It is never necessary to fight" [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #3674285 - 01/24/05 10:14 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

/me punches you

SHUT UP!


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OfflineKenny7822
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Re: "It is never necessary to fight" [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #3674398 - 01/24/05 10:36 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

It is necessary to fight if someone is threatening to take your life and you know they are serious about it.

So you are saying if someone had a gun to your head and you had just enough time to pull out a gun and shoot them in the head before they shot you, you wouldn't do it? That probably wouldn't happen but say it did, you would let someone kill you?

I know killing someone isn't exactly the same as fighting but by fighting I assume you mean all forms of violence are not necessary and even so if someone was beating you to death with their bare hands and they had every intention of killing you, you wouldn't fight back? In some situations it IS necessary to fight.


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Invisiblevampirism
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Registered: 03/14/04
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Re: "It is never necessary to fight" [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #3674403 - 01/24/05 10:37 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

why is that? Peaceful objectors have far more courage which is only noticed after the war or whatever is over, or they've been tortured and have died. It's sad, but they will not be forgotten. They put up with a lot of shit.


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: "It is never necessary to fight" [Re: Kenny7822]
    #3674406 - 01/24/05 10:38 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

if you have that much time, why not wrestle the gun away?


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Offlineoceansize
fuckin' right.

Registered: 08/31/04
Posts: 216
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Re: "It is never necessary to fight" [Re: vampirism]
    #3674482 - 01/24/05 10:50 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

It is never necessary to fight, if it isn't necessary to live. On a relative scale of morality, i'd make violence a lesser sin than apathy.
I'll leave with two quotes from my favorite philosophers:

"If Everyone swept in front of their door, the whole world would be clean." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"I have often laughed at weaklings who thought themselves good because they have no claws" - Fredrick Nietzsche


--------------------
"And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh." - Friedrich Nietzsche



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Offlineskystone
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Registered: 11/08/04
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Re: "It is never necessary to fight" [Re: oceansize]
    #3674500 - 01/24/05 10:54 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Humans have consciousness, they don't need to fight to surcive,
it is our choice to set a competitive society like capitalism..

If we all decided together (improbable), we could swich to
a noncompetitive society.

Nature is no loger against us, lions wont eat us, we live
isolated and can make it all work without fighting


--------------------
"..and suddenly it began to rain"


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Offlineoceansize
fuckin' right.

Registered: 08/31/04
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Re: "It is never necessary to fight" [Re: skystone]
    #3674553 - 01/24/05 11:02 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

may I suggest with 6+ billion people, there will always be a bell curve, always pathology, and always violence?

But either way, why is violence such a horrible thing?


--------------------
"And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh." - Friedrich Nietzsche



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OfflineKenny7822
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Re: "It is never necessary to fight" [Re: vampirism]
    #3674583 - 01/24/05 11:07 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

If you try and wrestle the gun away you might get shot and killed in the process, if you shoot the guy you'll be sure to live. I don't like violence at all but if it's to protect my own life then I see it as necessary. You wont see me ever trying to start a fight, I try to avoid conflict at all costs but if someone is trying to take my life for no reason at all they deserve to be killed.


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: "It is never necessary to fight" [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #3674601 - 01/24/05 11:10 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

What I mean to say is, no one will ever come to need to defend themselves from violence, if everyone believes in nonviolence.


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OfflineKenny7822
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Re: "It is never necessary to fight" [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #3674651 - 01/24/05 11:18 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

That's true but that's impossible to get everyone to believe in nonviolence, it would be great though.


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Offlineoceansize
fuckin' right.

Registered: 08/31/04
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Re: "It is never necessary to fight" [Re: Kenny7822]
    #3674675 - 01/24/05 11:22 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I'm not sure if it would be great. If everyone had some common courtesy, that would be great. See my Goethe quote above.

What I mean is, if everyone was non violent and had the choice to be, someone would decided to take charge with a little violence, you know, "in the land of the blind the one eyed man rules." If noone was able to choose to do this, you would be taking away free will, which I believe would be worse than a little violence.


--------------------
"And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh." - Friedrich Nietzsche



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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: "It is never necessary to fight" [Re: oceansize]
    #3674860 - 01/24/05 11:51 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

why does pacifism = to apathy to you? Pacifists have a hell of a lot more shit to put up with and will not sink down to violence. Apathy = not caring, ie, using violence thoughtlessly or instinctively.

Violence is "so bad" because it accomplishes nothing good. I would take the chance to wrestle the gun away from someone because it's possible for no one to get hurt. If a shot is fired, one of us will be dead - why? This could have been prevented, and as such cannot be written off as self defense. At what point is self defense offense?

What if you take affront to something someone said, feel they are threatening you and will "definately" shoot you, and shoot them first, when, in fact, they had no intention of doing so?

Don't get me wrong, I can see scenarios where it is acceptable to use violence, but there is no scenario where it's not acceptable to use no violence.



"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
- Isaac Asimov


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Offlineoceansize
fuckin' right.

Registered: 08/31/04
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Re: "It is never necessary to fight" [Re: vampirism]
    #3674931 - 01/25/05 12:00 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

"What if you take affront to something someone said, feel they are threatening you and will "definately" shoot you, and shoot them first, when, in fact, they had no intention of doing so?"

I suppose if you are afraid of this happening, you should wipe violence out of your mind.

I don't think pacifism= apathy,

but just, violent protest can be > apathetic pacifism in the face of unjustice


--------------------
"And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh." - Friedrich Nietzsche



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Offlineincubaby_421
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Re: "It is never necessary to fight" [Re: oceansize]
    #3675568 - 01/25/05 01:23 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

there is a reason to hit anybody.
there is reason to kick an old man down a flight of stairs, you just dont do it, NOBODY is above an asswhoopin, just dont do it.


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Loc: In the hen house
Re: "It is never necessary to fight" [Re: vampirism]
    #3675677 - 01/25/05 01:45 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Being a Conscientious Objector while in the US Navy was the bravest thing I ever did. My life was threatened, my "friends" turned away from me, I was put through three Captain's Masts (shipboard court martials) on trumped up charges, had my security clearance illegally revoked plus almost daily harassment for nine months. I was removed from my semi-elite position as a Fire Controlman (missiles and radar) and cleaned latrines during the last six months of my enlistment.

During one mandatory interview with the Captain, he asked me how the world would be if everyone held my ideals. I replied that the world would be a much nicer place through peaceful cooperation.

After that ordeal in which I remained true to my principles of non-violence, I realized that I could stand up to anyone or anything.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: "It is never necessary to fight" [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #3675968 - 01/25/05 03:32 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I think that whole idea went out the window when Cain killed Able.

But then Cain banged his sister and started a clan, so it is all good. :evil:


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OfflinePhred
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Re: "It is never necessary to fight" [Re: vampirism]
    #3676083 - 01/25/05 04:46 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Morrowind writes:

...but there is no scenario where it's not acceptable to use no violence.

You're sure you don't want to rethink that statement? Have you thought it all the way through and are willing to stand by it?

Because I can think of many scenarios where it is most definitely unacceptable to use no violence. I'm sure most other readers of this thread can as well.




pinky


--------------------


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Offlineoceansize
fuckin' right.

Registered: 08/31/04
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Re: "It is never necessary to fight" [Re: Swami]
    #3676262 - 01/25/05 07:24 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

:thumbup: wow


--------------------
"And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh." - Friedrich Nietzsche



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Offlineoceansize
fuckin' right.

Registered: 08/31/04
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Re: "It is never necessary to fight" [Re: oceansize]
    #3676266 - 01/25/05 07:26 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

"Fire And Ice
Poem lyrics of Fire And Ice by Robert Frost.

Some say the world will end in fire;
Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To know that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice. "

perhaps I would have the world end in fire before ice.


--------------------
"And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh." - Friedrich Nietzsche



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