Home | Community | Message Board

Myco.ca - Spores & Cultivation Supplies
Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Feminized Cannabis Seeds   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisiblePaou
Seeker

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 376
Loc: Transcendence
Re: Police disrobe to uncover sex crimes. [Re: Phluck]
    #3677259 - 01/25/05 12:38 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Perhaps a dictionary definition will solve this conflict:

pimp ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pmp)
n.
One who finds customers for a prostitute; a procurer.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 25 days, 4 hours
Re: Police disrobe to uncover sex crimes. [Re: Paou]
    #3677276 - 01/25/05 12:46 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Do legal brothel owners like to be called pimps? The dictionary isn't able to tell you all the social connotations a term has, and pimp certainly has a lot of negative ones. If I were running a brothel where I was doing my best to treat the prostitutes like real human beings I certainly wouldn't want to be called a pimp.

Does a clean, independant, intelligent escort meet the dictionary definition of 'whore'? Yes. Is it fair to call them a whore? No.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisiblePaou
Seeker

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 376
Loc: Transcendence
Re: Police disrobe to uncover sex crimes. [Re: Phluck]
    #3677293 - 01/25/05 12:51 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

It doesn't matter if they like to be referred to as pimps or not. They meet the definition. More importantly, if you were to write a law that outlawed pimping, how would you go about writing it in such a way that legal brothel owners were excluded?

PS: The owner of the Bunny Ranch in Nevada didn't previously consider himself a pimp, but after looking it up in a dictionary, had to agree that he was indeed a big pimp.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: Police disrobe to uncover sex crimes. [Re: Paou]
    #3677295 - 01/25/05 12:52 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

What I was saying is that generally speaking the only reasons a woman will have sex with total strangers, including nasty old men and abusive sadists, for money is because a) she makes way more money than she would at a legitimate job,b) because she has no other avenue.

Because of the fact that this is for MONEY I don't think it is consensual. I'm not a marxist, but I believe that socioeconomic conditions can force people into lives and circumstances that they do not want. In these cases I think the woman does not have a choice, therefore painting it as an issue of consensual sex with a monetary donation is dishonest. To me that falls under the category of exploitation.

Biologicaly speaking, an enormous body of scientific evidence shows women are not adapted to constant sex with random people all the time. I believe genetics play an important part in gender dispositions, and for the most part prostitution is incompatible with the female psychology. Just because men like to have sex all the time with whoever, and would like to justify a woman's ability to gratify them for a fee, does not mean it is healthy for the woman. That is projection, and a self-justifying one at that.

My parrallel with child labor laws is maybe kids do want to work. Maybe their families are poor and they feel they need to. So does that mean we should let them drop out of school and become indentured servants at the salt mines when it is going to ruin their lives and their chance for a future?


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


Edited by Divided_Sky (01/25/05 01:00 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisiblePaou
Seeker

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 376
Loc: Transcendence
Re: Police disrobe to uncover sex crimes. [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3677325 - 01/25/05 01:00 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
What I was saying is that generally speaking the only reasons a woman will have sex with total strangers, including nasty old men and abusive sadists, for money is because a) she makes way more money than she would at a legitimate job,b) because she has no other avenue.



Why do you get to decide which jobs are "legitimate" and which ones aren't? You know, strippers have to put up with nasty old men too, but somehow that's legal. Should it be?

Quote:

Because of the fact that this is for MONEY I don't think it is consensual. I'm not a marxist, but I believe that socioeconomic conditions can force people into lives and circumstances that they do not want.



There is no force. They simply choose the best of all options available to them. If they were not better off for it, they would not choose it.

Quote:

In these cases I think the woman does not have a choice, therefore painting it as an issue of consensual sex with a monetary donation is dishonest. To me that falls under the category of exploitation.



And to many of them it doesn't. Sorry, but you don't get to choose for them what is exploitation and what isn't. They've decided that this is how they are willing to make their money. You say they do not have a choice, but what does that leave them with if they don't have this option available to them?

Quote:

Biologicaly speaking women are not adapted to constant sex with random people all the time.



And yet it's the oldest profession in the world. Methinks you might not have the best understanding of biology.

Quote:

I believe genetics play an important part in gender dispositions, and for the most part prostitution is incompatible with the female physiology. Just because men like to have sex all the time with whoever, and would like to justify a woman's ability to gratify them for a fee, does not mean it is healthy for the woman. That is projection.



It is projection on your part to assume to understand women. How the fuck do you know what they want?


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: Police disrobe to uncover sex crimes. [Re: Paou]
    #3677339 - 01/25/05 01:04 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Aren't you doing the exact same thing? If I am making assumptions then you are making the opposite assumptions. Who are you to say women aren't exploited in prostitution and that they do it because of free choice and that they enjoy it?

If it REALLY is such an unknowable thing then I think presuming prostitution is ok is less ethical and responsible than that it is not. Until you know for sure it is wiser to err on the side of caution, especially when you are dealing with the wellbeing of other people.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisiblePaou
Seeker

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 376
Loc: Transcendence
Re: Police disrobe to uncover sex crimes. [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3677342 - 01/25/05 01:07 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
Aren't you doing the exact same thing? If I am making assumptions then you are making the opposite assumptions. Who are you to say women aren't exploited in prostitution and that they do it because of free choice and that they enjoy it?



Actually, that's not for me OR you to decide. It's for them to decide.

Quote:

If it REALLY is such an unknowable thing then I think presuming prostitution is ok is less ethical and responsible than that is is not. Until you know for sure it is wiser to err on the side of caution.



I suppose we could apply the same principle to any form of labor, and we could all become a communist society.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 25 days, 4 hours
Re: Police disrobe to uncover sex crimes. [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3677351 - 01/25/05 01:09 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Because of the fact that this is for MONEY I don't think it is consensual.

What about the ones who enjoy it? I gave you links to some, did you read them? Are you saying they're liars?

Biologicaly speaking, an enormous body of scientific evidence shows women are not adapted to constant sex with random people all the time.

What research? How can that even be proven? I mean, you can show an average sex drive and desire that's lower than that of what a prostitute does, but there are ALWAYS going to be people who want lots of sex with lots of different people, just because they don't represent the average doesn't mean anything. Human bodies certainly aren't adapted to run marathons on a regular basis but that doesn't mean some people don't do it well and enjoy it.

This is just the same "women don't like sex" bullshit that people believed up until the Kinsey research in the '60s.

My parrallel with child labor laws is maybe kids do want to work. Maybe their families are poor and they feel they need to. So does that mean we should let them drop out of school and become indentured servants at the salt mines when it is going to ruin their lives and their chance for a future?

A child and a full grown woman are two different things. By that logic, we should be making all jobs that aren't a good career move illegal.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: Police disrobe to uncover sex crimes. [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3677358 - 01/25/05 01:11 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Pauo, your first response was sneaky. I just said I don't think women have a choice in the matter, and you did, so you are simply asking me to agree with your argument. Most of the time prostitutes don't get to decide.

Your second response is unreasonable because it assumes that sex for money is no different than any other job. I don't know of many other jobs that tread so ambigiously upon the boundaries of rape. Therefore the issue deserves special consideration.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisiblePaou
Seeker

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 376
Loc: Transcendence
Re: Police disrobe to uncover sex crimes. [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3677369 - 01/25/05 01:15 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
By your first response you are being tricky. I just said I don't think women have a choice in the matter, and you did, so you are simply asking me to agree with your argument. Most of the time prostitutes don't get to decide.



They provide sex for money. Sure sounds like a decision to me. We are not talking about sexual slavery here, which is another matter altogether. We are talking about a voluntary economic transaction. They have as much choice in the matter as a factory worker does in his profession.

Quote:

Your second response is unreasonable because it assumes that sex for money is no different than any other job. I don't know of many other jobs that tread so ambigiously upon the boundaries of rape.



How is it like rape? They provide a service people want for a price people are willing to pay. It's just like any other market transaction. I don't see what's so difficult to understand here.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 25 days, 4 hours
Re: Police disrobe to uncover sex crimes. [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3677370 - 01/25/05 01:15 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Who are you to say women aren't exploited in prostitution and that they do it because of free choice and that they enjoy it?

If they enjoy it, where's the crime? Yes, people are exploited for money, that is the entire basis for the concept of 'employment'. By that logic it is unethical to pay anyone to do anything, because they are being exploited even if they enjoy it.

Prostitution is illegal now. Is that helping anyone? Has this made prostitution any less of a problem? How many womens lives are better off since they were arrested for prostitution? How is a the prostitute exploited any less by being unable to go to the police when she's abused?

How is a system that forces prostitution underground less exploitative than one that forces it to follow regulations designed to make the business safer for everyone invovled?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 25 days, 4 hours
Re: Police disrobe to uncover sex crimes. [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3677375 - 01/25/05 01:17 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Most of the time prostitutes don't get to decide.

But if all the big money in prostitution was going to licensed brothels, there would no longer be money in forcing women to be prostitutes.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: Police disrobe to uncover sex crimes. [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3677386 - 01/25/05 01:20 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Phluck, I am not talking about Victorian science. Modern day research shows that males are more sexually stimulated visually, and are more adapted to having alot of sex with different partners. Females are less visually stimulated, more inclined towards monagomous relationships, and having sex all the time because it will get them PREGNANT. They are also programmed with a stronger parental instinct so in general they are more prone to want stable relationships so they can raise children.
However, alot of research has shown that females are also disposed to marry the nice guy that will be there in the long run, and then at a point in their cycle have sex with the macho asshole guy to get his genetics. There is nothing flowery about that. Women are designed to have stable relationships with nice guys, but cheat and then get knocked up by football players.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 25 days, 4 hours
Re: Police disrobe to uncover sex crimes. [Re: Phluck]
    #3677394 - 01/25/05 01:22 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I would like to point out that I think it should be up to a woman to decide when she's being violated. Not some man who thinks he knows what's best for her, and demands she follows his own standards of morality.

Gays used to be considered victims of a horrible disease that needed to be cured.

Hell, women who showed a sex drive used to be considered victims of a horrible disease who needed to be cured. Female circumcision, horrendous devices that would crush the genitalia, and all kinds of other bizarre therapies were treatments for "hysteria". Nowadays, we've realized that women are intelligent people who are capable of making decisions for themselves, and have every right to sexual satisfaction.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: Police disrobe to uncover sex crimes. [Re: Phluck]
    #3677401 - 01/25/05 01:25 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
Most of the time prostitutes don't get to decide.

But if all the big money in prostitution was going to licensed brothels, there would no longer be money in forcing women to be prostitutes.




This is true, but I still see a problem if we create a scenario where women make MORE money as prostitutes. Why be a social worker, or a nurse and actually help people, when you will make way more money as a prostitute? I think it is a serious problem when society rewards potentially unhealthy behaviors and penalizes virtueous ones.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 25 days, 4 hours
Re: Police disrobe to uncover sex crimes. [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3677413 - 01/25/05 01:29 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Phluck, I am not talking about Victorian science. Modern day research shows that males are more sexually stimulated visually, and are more adapted to having alot of sex with different partners. Females are less visually stimulated, more inclined towards monagomous relationships, and having sex all the time because it will get them PREGNANT. They are also programmed with a stronger parental instinct so in general they are more prone to want stable relationships so they can raise children.

Do some more research, and you'll find that such studies only show an average. There are still lots of women who enjoy sex with different partners, and lots of men who would prefer monogamy. There are also lots of women who are more visually stimulated, and lots of men who are more emotionally stimulated.

There are also theories that question the idea that women are more geared towards monogamy than men, the ideas you're referencing are theories that people have presented, not solid proof of anything.

Plus, we don't know how much these differences are based on learned behaviour, or if they're biologically ingrained in us.

The worst thing about the way the media presents these studies is the fact that journalists don't have much scientific training, and are trying to create a good story. Then someone takes what they read and re-interprets it into a broad generalization of every single person of a certain sex or group.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 25 days, 4 hours
Re: Police disrobe to uncover sex crimes. [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3677424 - 01/25/05 01:31 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I think it is a serious problem when society rewards potentially unhealthy behaviors and penalizes virtueous ones.

But if a bunch of precautions are taken, how is it unhealthy?
How is being a prostitute less virtuous than working at McDonald's, or at a car factory?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: Police disrobe to uncover sex crimes. [Re: Phluck]
    #3677430 - 01/25/05 01:32 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Well I mean there is logic to this as well. Humans evolved before condoms so having sex used to have a biological outcome, having children. By nature males want get their genes spread around, and by nature females don't want to have sex all the time because then they would always be having kids. Regardless if they enjoy it or not, that was not the main consideration 15,000 years ago. We are thinking in terms of 21st century recreational sex without consequence. Such things have only recent become possible.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisiblePaou
Seeker

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 376
Loc: Transcendence
Re: Police disrobe to uncover sex crimes. [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3677437 - 01/25/05 01:34 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
Quote:

Phluck said:
Most of the time prostitutes don't get to decide.

But if all the big money in prostitution was going to licensed brothels, there would no longer be money in forcing women to be prostitutes.




This is true, but I still see a problem if we create a scenario where women make MORE money as prostitutes. Why be a social worker, or a nurse and actually help people, when you will make way more money as a prostitute? I think it is a serious problem when society rewards potentially unhealthy behaviors and penalizes virtueous ones.



Just out of curiosity, are you a socialist? You seem fixated on the socialist idea that a product or service is worth something other than what people are willing to pay for it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: Police disrobe to uncover sex crimes. [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3677447 - 01/25/05 01:36 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

If you read my other posts I think the answer would be obvious. I'm just not a libertarian or social liberal.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Feminized Cannabis Seeds   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Policing the gays
newuser1492
1,909 8 09/11/05 04:04 PM
by RandalFlagg
* article - Republican Presidents And War Crimes - Nothing New grib 1,059 4 05/20/04 07:50 PM
by silversoul7
* Does U.S. abet Korean sex trade? ekomstop 502 0 09/22/04 11:31 AM
by ekomstop
* Prostitution
( 1 2 all )
zahudulallah 2,613 30 02/23/05 05:18 PM
by Psychoactive1984
* UK Crime increasing? Decreasing? Both....
( 1 2 all )
st0nedphucker 2,054 25 07/23/04 03:48 PM
by mntlfngrs
* How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal?
( 1 2 3 all )
LearyfanS 2,671 47 04/24/03 07:19 PM
by OOOO
* Gun crime rise has peaked Xlea321 549 1 10/17/03 08:14 AM
by lysergic
* Iraqis lose right to sue troops over war crimes luvdemshrooms 788 3 05/24/04 04:32 AM
by z@z.com

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
3,248 topic views. 1 members, 0 guests and 2 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Print Topic | ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2021 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.033 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 17 queries.