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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Science and Pseudoscience
    #3655821 - 01/20/05 10:51 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

It bugs me to see people posting "science" articles on the S&P forum. It seems that if they genuinely have some science they would post it on the Science and Technology forum. You see all sorts of nonsense here branded as "science" but it is really pseudoscience and conjecture. The reason they don't put it on the Science and Technology forum is that they would be laughed off so they come here to pawn off bogus info. I come here to discuss philosophy and spirituality, two subject I really like. If I want "science" I will go to the Science and Technology forum. Just my 2 cents.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Science and Pseudoscience [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3655864 - 01/20/05 11:03 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

This is the Spirituality and Philosophy forum. What do you expect? People are trying assemble some understanding of the world around them and trying to synthesize a unifying theory based on whatever bits and pieces of scientific or otherwise material seems to explain their experience or ideas. It's what we all do all the time.

Nobody claims that any of this stuff is proven and you MUST believe, but we are trying to figure things out and it is best to do so with an open mind. Posts like dmtrypr are not the gospel, but are sometimes scientific in nature and may have interesting implications. Is their something wrong with speculation?


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1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Science and Pseudoscience [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3655884 - 01/20/05 11:07 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I have had posts removed for being off topic....no problem. If it is Science they can post on the science forum instead of making off topic posts here. They can assemble their understasnding there where the topic IS science. I read it regularly and I can vouch for that.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Science and Pseudoscience [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3655886 - 01/20/05 11:07 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I don't know if that will help, but perhaps your reading experience will be a better one if you know that I'm not presenting my thoughts as anything but thoughts. I'm not evangelistic. This discussion isn't given in order to provide anyone with still another spiritual box that they're supposed to climb into, throwing away everything they believed.

So if I offend you, just sit there a moment and breathe... you need to know that my truth is my truth. If your truth is different, know that I respect and honor your intelligence and also your right to voice it, as I do mine.



?Unknown


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Disclaimer!?


Edited by Gomp (01/20/05 11:09 PM)


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InvisiblePaou
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Re: Science and Pseudoscience [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3655923 - 01/20/05 11:15 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Most of the S&T threads seem to be about computers, so I figure if I wanted to get an interesting thread going about String Theory or Quantum Physics, I'd get get better responses in S&P.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Science and Pseudoscience [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3655936 - 01/20/05 11:17 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
They can assemble their understasnding there where the topic IS science. I read it regularly and I can vouch for that.




All I ever see is shit about firewalls and hard drives. At any rate, that forum is not for attempting to draw some kind of general or philosophical conclusion from scientific evidence. If the goal is spiritual or philosophical I see no reason why a post should be removed simply for containing anything remotely in the realm of science.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


Edited by Divided_Sky (01/21/05 12:00 AM)


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Science and Pseudoscience [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3656120 - 01/20/05 11:57 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Well, it IS the science and technology forum. Computers are technology. If the goal is spiritual then it should not be misrepresented as science, but presented as spiritualism. I have great respect for spiritualism and science...I know that it is unwise to mix them.


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Science and Pseudoscience [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3656644 - 01/21/05 01:40 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

where else should pseudoscience be posted, other than S&P?

and 'pseudoscience' there can be changed in for 'fringe science' if you prefer, which is to say, anything that isn't straight science, accepted by people with the right credentials.

If the goal is spiritual then it should not be misrepresented as science, but presented as spiritualism.

are you saying that the content of someone's thread is less important than how they preface it? "The following is spiritual in nature..." If someone posts something which at first glance seems like it wants to be science, but obviously isn't, are we to move it to the Science forum without reading it? are we to throw books on the fire if we don't like their covers?

spiritualism and science...I know that it is unwise to mix them.

you know that? I don't... perhaps you could explain it


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InvisiblePaou
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Re: Science and Pseudoscience [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3656677 - 01/21/05 01:46 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
I have great respect for spiritualism and science...I know that it is unwise to mix them.



IMO, they both seem to be asking the same sort of questions about the universe.


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OfflineGNIOM1498
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Re: Science and Pseudoscience [Re: Paou]
    #3656830 - 01/21/05 02:14 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

... No science is empirical totally separated from philosophy the 2 don't mix unless there is only one truth, God's truth but eh....Philosophy granted like science is to understand the world around us our reality, but philosophy deals with non empirical ways or in other words arguments consisting of contradictions no right our wrong answers. Science doesn't involve contradictions or at least in a sense should not. In reality if the forms says spirituality and philosophy there should not be anything that has to do with science. I agree with Huehuecoyotl


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----ALL MY POSTS ARE FICTIONAL-------


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Science and Pseudoscience [Re: GNIOM1498]
    #3656847 - 01/21/05 02:19 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Science doesn't involve contradictions

someone needs to brush up on their quantum physics


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OfflineGNIOM1498
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Re: Science and Pseudoscience [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3656897 - 01/21/05 02:32 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

eh... has quantum physics been totally explained? no .. is it a law? no...it is a theory and to the best of our knowledge right now it is the only way we can explain the movement of subatomic particles. science should not involve contradictions. just like the duality of a photon, much work is still needed but nonetheless doesn't involve philosophy totally separated still. I tried that argument with my philosophy teacher doesn't work. Anymore?


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----ALL MY POSTS ARE FICTIONAL-------


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Science and Pseudoscience [Re: GNIOM1498]
    #3656944 - 01/21/05 02:46 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

eh... has quantum physics been totally explained? no .. is it a law? no...it is a theory and to the best of our knowledge right now it is the only way we can explain the movement of subatomic particles.

I'm with you so far, and I fully agree

science should not involve contradictions.

okay, you changed the wording a little, I'm still with you

just like the duality of a photon, much work is still needed but nonetheless doesn't involve philosophy totally separated still.

huh? you lost me. science doesn't involve contradictions, however light is a wave and a particle, though never at the same time. huh? but then you come back: science should not involve contradictions. and yet it does. huh?

even though it does, science should not involve contradictions, therefore science and philosophy should never meet.

huh?

perhaps what you mean is: science has the potential for not involving contradictions, and the universe is fully understandable, and one day, when humans are done with finding out stuff and have written down all the information in the universe, we'll be able to see that science never had any contradictions. all seeming contradictions were the result of insufficient data.

and therefore science and philosophy should never meet? huh?


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OfflineGNIOM1498
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Re: Science and Pseudoscience [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3657007 - 01/21/05 03:09 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

ha... now if u were a good philosophizer u should see that I made a very fatal error. I'm using a argument (philosophy) to explain how they do not mix so if I'm using argument for science then they are obviously mixing that would have destroyed my whole argument. -argument in a circle- But that's no fun. But science only contradicts its self, when yes there is lack of empirical data. Do u know of any laws that contradict each other? I really can't think of any. hypothesis, theories yes but they do not have any place in philosophy or spirituality those can go in science and technology because they still are reliant on empirical evidence to make them true.


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----ALL MY POSTS ARE FICTIONAL-------


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Science and Pseudoscience [Re: GNIOM1498]
    #3657930 - 01/21/05 12:05 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I'm using a argument (philosophy) to explain how they do not mix so if I'm using argument for science then they are obviously mixing that would have destroyed my whole argument.

haha yeah I didn't see that, good job debunking youreslf!


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: Science and Pseudoscience [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3657987 - 01/21/05 12:32 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

There was discussion amongst the mods and admins in the recent past about the proper place for science on the Shroomery. There was talk of moving it into this forum and making the science and tech forum into 'computers and technology.'

I think that science and philosophy are intricately entwined. In fact in ancient times there was no distinction; this is evident in the writings of Aristotle. Fields like metaphysics and theology were called 'sciences' up through the middle ages, and theology was even called the "Queen of the Sciences." The modern scientific method grew out of the philosophy of Francis Bacon, and some of its founding fathers were great philosophers; Descartes, Leibniz, Newton, Paschal and others were scientist, mathematicians, and philosophers. On top of that modern science is based upon several first principles which are philosophical in nature: the principle of non-contradiction, reliability of the senses, the principle of causality, are a few that come to mind.

Given it's history and foundations, I believe that modern science grew out of philosophy and is still undeniably connected to it.


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Offlinedjd586
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Re: Science and Pseudoscience [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3657989 - 01/21/05 12:32 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I like when science posts are made in S&P. It's fun for me to read people debating facts with their own opinions. It's like watching someone trying to stop a bullet by throwing some water at it. What's the point?

But the fun thing to consider, even facts in science are disproven. This happens all the time. Scientists look for flaws in facts and experiments on a daily basis. Some scientists devote their life's work to disproving scienctiffic theories that are based on equations and facts. If we didn't take time to pick apart hard evidence would we ever make any progress in this world? If we didn't take time to debate such things as the sting theory or the theory of evolution, then what would be the point of progressing?

A lot of people are seriously offended by some of the science that is out there, whether it's based in fact or not. Having a fact totally dilute your spirtual views is quite unnerving to many. Instead of dismantling a philosophy or spiritual view one tends to defend it, even though he or she has no factual backing. Afterall, denial is the most predictable human reaction.

Should I really just take something as is? Some "hard scientiftic fact" from a random post? Or should I look for the flaws in it? Should I debate the philosophy of doing so? Yes, let us debate... let my views, whether fact or opinion, be heard. Tell me your point of view, and tell me the philosophy behind your view. If need be, answer my questions with your own questions, because that is how the fundalments of science works. . . questioning everything.

So whether it be a science or a pseudoscience post in S&P, does it really matter? Isn't science afterall a philosophy of logic? If so, isn't that worth a post in itself?


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Phase 1... collect underpants... phase 2...??? ... Phase 3 - PROFIT!


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Offlineincubaby_421
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Re: Science and Pseudoscience [Re: djd586]
    #3659058 - 01/21/05 05:24 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

well, the "psuedoscience" posted in here is not posted in science and technology becuase, any thought, within and of itself, is philosophy. all philosophy is is science without proof,
or maybe they just thought that theyre S&P colleagues would be interested and intuiged by it, which often times many are, as i often am, but if i am not, i simply ignore it, remember, nobody is standing next to you holding a gun to your head making you criticize everything that you dont agree with,

my guess is that when people post certain things they arent expecting the spanish inquisition...

but NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!!


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"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Science and Pseudoscience [Re: incubaby_421]
    #3659097 - 01/21/05 05:29 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

again incubaby :thumbup:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlineincubaby_421
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Re: Science and Pseudoscience [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3659120 - 01/21/05 05:32 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

righty oh man, righty oh...

i just think that he majority of folk here are at least relatively like minded, but as you will havewith any large group of people, especially hippies, not everybody can see things the same, my purpose is to hopefully open up somebodies mnd to an opposing point of view.


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"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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