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 Ped
Interested In Your Brain
Registered: 08/30/99
Posts: 5,494
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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>> logical = illogical?
Bingo.
The problem we're having in this thread has to do with how we are conditioned to associate faith with irrationality and foolishness, and logic with wisdom and admirability. Lightning Fractal seems to be resisting that conditioning with a bit of fervor, while the rest of us are arguing over semantics. The reason we see faith as something irrational has to do with how we look at it through only one lense. The reason we cannot see the faults in logic is the same. We need to understand that faith is not inherently illogical, and that logic is not inherently wise and admirable.
Instead of focusing on the differences between faith and logic and deciding which one is better than the other, why not focus on their similarities? Instead of discriminating between the two, why not instead unify them?
There are two kinds of logic, and two kinds of faith. There is the logic that is closed to ideas which are not immediately logical, and there is logic which applies rigourous rational process to help ensure that truth is pure. There is the faith which feverently hopes that what one presently understands is what turns out to be true, and there is the faith that wishes with utmost sincereity to discover what in fact is true, no matter what that may turn out to be.
The kind of logic that is closed to ideas which are not immediately logical has common threads with the kind of faith that has already decided what's true and is resistent to evidence to the contrary. This kind of logic is not helpful. This kind of faith is not helpful either. They tend to leave us volnerable to emotional and intellectual stagnation. It is cowardice.
The kind of logic that is adherent to rational process guides a person toward the truth they wish to seek. Inherent in this kind of logic is a heart-felt desire to uncover the truth, to suspend one's own judgements in favour of uncovering what actually is. The kind of faith that wishes to find the truth no matter what that may turn out to be has common threads with this kind of logic. Both of them place higher priority on discovery than on stability and security. This kind of logic is very helpful. This kind of faith is also very helpful. Either of these propell us swiftly, with integrity, and with honesty.
So we can see here that both faith and logic have the potential to be irrational. They both also have the potential to be wise and admirable. Once we have dropped our prejudice, we can look at this matter more objectively.
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 spudamore
Stranger
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 1,460
Loc: Australia
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 Re:  [Re: Ped]
#3651975 - 01/20/05 02:33 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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thanks for posting that ped that was a great read i hope others get a chance to try and understand that aswell.
you touched on so many points and this is the one i liked the most.
The kind of logic that is closed to ideas which are not immediately logical has common threads with the kind of faith that has already decided what's true and is resistent to evidence to the contrary. This kind of logic is not helpful. This kind of faith is not helpful either. They tend to leave us volnerable to emotional and intellectual stagnation. It is cowardice.
cheers
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BuddahKillah
U WANTFITE!?!?!?!?!?!
Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 1,733
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Re: Fuck logic, logic is barren and desolate [Re: Lightningfractal]
#3652995 - 01/20/05 09:49 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lightningfractal said:
Quote:
TheShroomHermit said:
You claim that the truth is self evident, is this your way of making those who would disagree feel dumb? Logic is a useful tool when determining if something is real, actual, or fact. You suggest that we should abandon logic, and make truth whatever we imagine up.
That is no truth.
Logic is a framework of the proccessing of stimulus done by the human mind. Therefore it is inherrently limited as such by the mind which is doing the processing.
It works O.K. for solving problems and complexities which relate to the human experience that WE created, such as for planning for evolving traffic patterns at buzy intersections and such...
...But it fails utterly at life. You cannot logically define what the whole fucking meaning of life is. If so, go ahead, I wanna hear it.
Things such as the meaning of life and the like are only reached through application of the spark of devine intelligence which resides in us all, and then only in a greatly limited way. Limited by the flesh and blood nature of the human mind itself.
If you don't see this now, you surely will once you shed your flesh and blood body.
You are using logic here. Do you not see the contradiction?
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 36,960
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for the sake of some subtle penny dropping [Re: BuddahKillah]
#3653056 - 01/20/05 10:10 AM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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ok ok ok
but
what if you see something
and you just know one of these other illogical people are going to enjoy it,
so you need to explain it,
and maybe engage just a little bit of logic so that they just might have the right disposition, (a logical reaction context - just for kicks you know nothing too serious)
just in case the penny drops - that it might drop in a good place.
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