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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 26,938
Loc: Iceland
how does this sound?
    #3646243 - 01/19/05 12:12 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"Heart of The Shaman - An Initiation Intensive

Presented by: Donna Dryer Perez-Venero , Richard Yensen Perez-Venero

Indigenous Ways & Shamanism
Spiritual Development
Jun 15 - 22, 2005


Enter into a mythopoetic journey of initiation to the spiritual essence where the great Mystery resides in all things. We'll travel together through deep states of altered consciousness within a vessel of trust developed through ritual. In this experiential intensive, we use both ancient and modern techniques, including portrayals of the transformative journey, breath and bodywork, music, and gong to enter shamanic trance, experience deep catharsis, and find the path with heart. The shamanic awakening honours one's innermost wounding experiences, and uses them as a portal into the spirit world.

Come prepared to use this shamanic environment as a sacred vessel for deep personal exploration and spiritual growth. This workshop is physically demanding and includes an all night ceremony.

Tuition: $595 + $50 studio fee CDN, $496 + $42 studio fee US (meals & accommodation extra), 7 nights

Richard Yensen Perez-Venero, PhD, studied the shamanic tradition with Carlos Castaneda and Maria Sabina. He has served on the faculties of Harvard Medical School and John Hopkins University, and, through 20 years of approved psychedelic research, pioneered a non-drug shamanistic psychotherapy. A licensed psychologist, Richard is director of Orenda Institute in Baltimore. Donna Dryer Perez-Venero, MD, MPH, is a transpersonal psychiatrist who has studied the shamanic tradition of the Hmong hill tribes in Thailand. She is co-founder of Orenda Institute, which seeks to integrate shamanism into modern healing practices. "


im seriously considering doing this trip...


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Everything I post is fiction.


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Invisiblespudamore
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Registered: 06/12/03
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Re: how does this sound? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3646298 - 01/19/05 12:26 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

sounds good but why pay for information that you can discover yourself. there own methods might not even suit your needs. through reading, intution, and learning methods you can attain something better than you can pay for. one cannot pay for awakenings.


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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem


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OfflineDroz
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Re: how does this sound? [Re: spudamore]
    #3646366 - 01/19/05 12:40 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

THey don't know shit about spiritual warfare.


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Evolution of Time.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,344
Loc: On the Border
Re: how does this sound? [Re: spudamore]
    #3646376 - 01/19/05 12:43 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Moonshoe:
It's a tourist trap. They advertise this stuff in "Shaman's Drum" all the time. It usually amounts to hearing some dude talk about love and you get an overpriced Ayahuasca trip. Also note that most of the people who drop Castaneda's name never met him...same with Sabina. If you read Shaman's Drum you'll see so many of these things advertised it is ridiculous. You would think Shamen are all over the place. All of this can be done for free and in a more genuine fashion by yourself....use a good book as a guide. I don't want to down you, but don't waste the money on this. The shamanic initiation takes place in a manner so subjective as to exclude the participation of others, anyhow. If you NEED the guidence of others there are probably more qualified people on this board to guide you than you will find elsewhere. You cannot order it to commence...it comes when you are ready in your heart. It is usually a response to getting so sick of life and with life that there is nowhere left to turn. When it takes you there will be no choice and no question in your mind afterward. Maybe my opinion is not relevant to you...


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Invisiblespudamore
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Re: how does this sound? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3646383 - 01/19/05 12:44 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

:thumbup:


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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem


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OfflinePeyoteZen
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Registered: 05/05/03
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Re: how does this sound? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3647005 - 01/19/05 03:33 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I agree.  Here's why.
Cosmic revelations and spiritual enlightenment are something much bigger than ourselves IMO.
Techniques, symbols, words, rituals, etc. were all created by human beings.  The  truely divine "thing" which everything in nature seeks is accessible in an infinite number of ways.  Some people might argue that dolphins are way ahead of us.  Think about it... wouldn't you rather quit your day job and swim around and play  in tropical waters all day  :penis:


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ISLAMIC MIGRANT CRIME WAVE COMING TO A GRANNSKAP NEAR YOU!


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: how does this sound? [Re: PeyoteZen]
    #3647123 - 01/19/05 06:01 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

probably more fulfilling than disney land & for less, I guess they don't have a babysitting section, this is just for adults.

if you go - enjoy.


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InvisibleCosm
Questioning
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 448
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Re: how does this sound? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3647135 - 01/19/05 06:20 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

look within, the answers you seek are within.
then again it may be a fun exprience.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
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Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: how does this sound? [Re: PeyoteZen]
    #3647808 - 01/19/05 12:35 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
I agree.  Here's why.
Cosmic revelations and spiritual enlightenment are something much bigger than ourselves IMO.
Techniques, symbols, words, rituals, etc. were all created by human beings.  The  truely divine "thing" which everything in nature seeks is accessible in an infinite number of ways.  Some people might argue that dolphins are way ahead of us.  Think about it... wouldn't you rather quit your day job and swim around and play  in tropical waters all day  :penis:




You make a good point here. When working on opening up to more with a group of people, I do much more quickly and profoundly then when flying solo. I think it has to do with the added stimuli to trigger newness, the ideas and insights shared for "where" to look and how to "see" and "feel" when there.

Life is full of guides, from parents, to school teachers, to business mentors, and friends. They are not always bad things, they help us to experience and discover more of ourselves and the world and what we can do. Some people hook up with the intuitive guide or spirit guide to fly solo full time, and some haven't made that connection yet. I spent a shitload on books till I did. Even then, group interaction has an added value all it's own.

I remember getting down on a friend for paying for flower of life meditation workshops. Same trip I laid on her and she got really upset with me, when I thought I was acting in her best interest. It dawned on me later, that she is not me and such an environment was helpful to her. She started coming to me for how toos and answers instead then and it was then that i realized, not everyone is self lead and that's okay, big reason for why we all have each other. I should've kept my mouth shut, lesson learned. Now I think it was really jerky of me to ut her paying for the workshops down, espcially when she said how much they were helping her to be at more peace in the day.

It's not healthy to become dependent on exterior guides and groups and a balance is good and taking time to reflect and go your own way now and again. To find you way through the dark by illumine yourself from within is a skill to be developed on your own. You'll never get the chance if you always follow the light of others.


Of course, its ideal to find such groups of people that you can share time and experience with for free. Lets put this in perspective. We pay for services of being catered to all of the time, restaurants, grocery stores "think of farming all your own food and drink" cleaners, car wash, night clubs, movies, airlines, concerts so how is this any really different if moonshoe has and wants to spend some money for this group experience and service. If he does and feels it a waste, lesson learned. He may walk away feeling he got every pennies worth and then some.

Man thinks he is more intelligent then the dolphin because he has built skyscrapers of steal and concrete and created nuclear bombs that can destroy nations, while the dolphin just plays, makes love and raising off spring caring for each other all day. The dolphin thinks he is more intelligent then man for the same reasons.

I suppose some of you would rather see moon blowing his dough on raves and drugs. I support ya moon and of course, can't wait to hear about it if ya go.  :heart:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleSinbad
Living TheMoment
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Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
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Re: how does this sound? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3648260 - 01/19/05 03:08 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Sounds like a rip-off to me. There are better, free, quality goods to be found at the spiritual supermarket. Stick with the time hounoured techiques that you can trace back through the ages to there origin. Carlos Casteneda may have been a good shaman, but who knows who setup this workshop and what bogus information they may give regarding their expereince with Carlos!


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: how does this sound? [Re: Sinbad]
    #3648672 - 01/19/05 04:23 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

why pay so much money for something you can get by eating some ecstasy?


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Invisiblespudamore
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Registered: 06/12/03
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Re: how does this sound? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3648897 - 01/19/05 05:13 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

if you really want to join something like this go by word of mouth not by what advertisment says.


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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: how does this sound? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3648903 - 01/19/05 05:14 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

It is one thing to pay out the cash for an interesting week of entertainment...I mean, hey, it might be fun. To expect a shamanic initiation over an entertaining week of spiritual discussion is entirely another. It may be worth it to have a good, interesting time....but to expect to have a shamanic crisis would be a severe let down and rip off. The initiation of the shaman is usually the response to a severe personal crisis. It can be caused by drug abuse, poverty, physical disability, or brought on by the the consequences of shamanic training...which often entails hardships and unsafe conditions in combination with knowledge and desire.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: how does this sound? [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3648912 - 01/19/05 05:16 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Drugs won't do it...


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
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Re: how does this sound? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3649021 - 01/19/05 05:37 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
It is one thing to pay out the cash for an interesting week of entertainment...I mean, hey, it might be fun. To expect a shamanic initiation over an entertaining week of spiritual discussion is entirely another. It may be worth it to have a good, interesting time....but to expect to have a shamanic crisis would be a severe let down and rip off. The initiation of the shaman is usually the response to a severe personal crisis. It can be caused by drug abuse, poverty, physical disability, or brought on by the the consequences of shamanic training...which often entails hardships and unsafe conditions in combination with knowledge and desire.




I totally agree. What it comes down to is, what does he want for the money and what does he think he will get for the money, if its the first, he'll get his monies worth being the social bug he is, if its the later, he'll feel disappointed and rip-offed.

He's been talking about it for so long now, maybe he just needs to get it out of his system already. If he is over glorifying it, there is only one way for him to find out and may have a bubble burst. He may walk away with it being better then expected, so much is really about what we make of life.

In any event, I agree. I've spent more money on get aways that had no goal or purpose other then to screw off and waste time and money being lazy or playing. I was coming from that perspective. Experiences beat books to me and sometimes, it's not always so much fun to go alone. It's nice to have others around to share and relate experiences with. I can't fault him for wanting that.

To think your guaranteed some trippy and meaningful shamanic transformation from this is probably too much to expect. If he keeps his expectations realistic, he can have a meaningful experience of its own right anyway.

He's young, hes got money, time and a dream of doing something like this so why not?


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: how does this sound? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3649760 - 01/19/05 07:53 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I would rather spend the cash on computer hardware, so such a trip would not interest me. I have had ayahuasca experiences every bit as authentic as in the rainforest and it cost less than $25 to do so. Vision quests are free, of course. If I had a chance to live in a primitive community for a month or two I would jump at it, but such people rarely give tourists the time of day...or they lie to them to rip them off thinking that it is what they deserve. I remember reading about a Huichol Indian in Mexico named Don Juan who would take hippy tourists for their money when they came searching for the real(yeah right) "Don Juan". Attaching money to a spiritual endevor is a guarantee of failure. The spirit cannot be bought, and unrealistic expectations are a sure route to abandonment of one's desire. But on the bright side, a party in the rain forest might be pretty fun.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
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Re: how does this sound? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3649852 - 01/19/05 08:11 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
But on the bright side, a party in the rain forest might be pretty fun.




:thumbup:

How old are you moon? Something like 19. I think moon is still seeing the bright side of life. :sun:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: how does this sound? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3650347 - 01/19/05 09:46 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

"I think moon is still seeing the bright side of life"
So, you imply that I am not?


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Re: how does this sound? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3653638 - 01/20/05 03:22 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
But on the bright side, a party in the rain forest might be pretty fun.




hue darlin, how can I think you are not when you just did? You do and can. :sun: You can also see the practical side from your lifes experience. We talked about this before and I think moonshoe was involved. Sure, you and I have grown, got married been in bankruptcy, had kids, we've lived and learned a lot and would go back and do a lot different, yet we said we wouldn't because we can appreciate all the choices that led us to where we are now and all of them were not practical.

But boy, did they produce some of the best of times while in them and learning growth experiences.

Do we wish the youngins would learn from us, of course, should they completely or also be allowed to learn from their own choices and experiences and be supported in them?

Like your last reply I took your brightside quote from... bueno sealed with an italian kiss. You gave practical reasoning for other alternative choices and you also gave way to the adventure of the human spirit to be impractical but to realise its hearts desires and dreams.

Good dad stuff. No wonder your kids came out well. Moon is an adult in his own right, and I realise and respect that.

Like with my daughter, she wants something that makes me shirk at the thought. I give her all the probable outcomes I can think of and then let her makes a choice. Ussually she chooses practically and safely. Sometimes, she takes a chance and it almost always comes out to go her way . Those are the moments to witness where lifes potential and dreams realised by another just bowl me over.

maybe if moon goes, it will be like realising a long time held dream come true and he has the capacity to make it that. No mater which way ti would go, it would be out of his system.

I think, if we day dream of something a lot, its because it's meant to be materialised to the best of our ability because there is something of worth in the materialisation for us, ussually something unexpected and unaccounted for. Those gems are priceless.

I am babbling and I think you can see with eyes of the sun hue hue :sun: :sun: :heart: :thumbup:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: how does this sound? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3654861 - 01/20/05 07:47 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I was confused by the remark. The experience of life leaves one disillusioned, but that is a good thing...to live without illusion? I feel the sooner that one loses those illusions, the sooner life actually begins. When one knows the true possibilities available one can move forward much more quickly...avoiding the useless side trips and strike the mark straight and true. Many of the young see the jaded attitudes of those older (I did) as negativity, but it is really increased efficiency. Thanks for your positive comments!


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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