Home | Community | Message Board

Cannabis Seeds - Original Sensible Seeds
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction
    #3637572 - 01/17/05 01:14 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Before I get started, I want to acknowledge that there may be some sampling error (though it would be completely unintentional and coincidental).

I've run into many people who are/have been a member of Alcoholics/Narcotics Anonymous. Most have been acquaintences, but some have been good friends. I've also read a good amount of the handbook... and I like alot of what's in there. In general, as a treatment plan (according to the book), I think the program is pretty sound (though I haven't studied it extensively).

However, from what I've seen, AA/NA doesn't actually CURE addiction.
In fact, every single person I've ever met (in any stage of the treatment - which doesn't really end, as it's a way of life) still suffers from addiction.
Sure, they may not drink or use drugs (and that's a GREAT thing - I'm not questioning that), but their addictive personalities are still intact. Therefore, they haven't been CURED at all... their addictions have merely been refocused. The new focus can vary among members, but in every case I've seen it's been something external: religion, marriage, exercise, a hobby, etc.

My point is this: Assuming it is possible to change an addictive personality, wouldn't these people benefit more from an actual cure rather than a redirection of their addictions?

*waits patiently for Markos...*

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFrog
Warrior
Female User Gallery

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: Sclorch]
    #3637685 - 01/17/05 02:43 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Sclorch said:
My point is this: Assuming it is possible to change an addictive personality, wouldn't these people benefit more from an actual cure rather than a redirection of their addictions?





From what "actual cure" do you think addicts would benefit? What is the actual cure the would benefit addicts better than NA/AA?

Just curious. I know some addicts myself. I haven't yet heard of a cure.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefresh313
journeyman
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 2,537
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: Frog]
    #3637779 - 01/17/05 04:25 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

a physical "cure" would do alot more than just stop addiction
a psychological cure i dont think is possible as it is a physical "problem"

addiction is just a chemical reinforcement
you can get it from chemicals ex; alcohol
you can get it naturally without external chemicals

some people are just more prone to satisfy this chemical want

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: Sclorch]
    #3637953 - 01/17/05 06:51 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

> However, from what I've seen, AA/NA doesn't actually CURE addiction.

I don't really think that addiction can be cured. People are either going to be addicts, or they are not. For those that are addicts, it is much better to addicted to something positive, such as religion, marriage, exercise, a hobby, etc than something destructive.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblepoke smot!
floccinocci floofinator
Male

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 5,248
Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction *DELETED* [Re: Sclorch]
    #3637955 - 01/17/05 06:51 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Post deleted by poke smot!

Reason for deletion: x


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleuriahchase
Skinny White Boy
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/25/04
Posts: 675
Loc: SoCal
Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: poke smot!]
    #3638345 - 01/17/05 10:23 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

my dad says that NA is only good for finding new hook-ups


--------------------
Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are -Kurt Cobain
       



     
Hotter than the left sink handle.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblepoke smot!
floccinocci floofinator
Male

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 5,248
Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction *DELETED* [Re: uriahchase]
    #3638694 - 01/17/05 11:56 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Post deleted by poke smot!

Reason for deletion: x


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: Frog]
    #3638797 - 01/17/05 12:20 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Frog said:
Quote:

Sclorch said:
My point is this: Assuming it is possible to change an addictive personality, wouldn't these people benefit more from an actual cure rather than a redirection of their addictions?





From what "actual cure" do you think addicts would benefit? What is the actual cure the would benefit addicts better than NA/AA?

Just curious. I know some addicts myself. I haven't yet heard of a cure.



I'm not saying that I know of a cure OR a better treatment plan than A/NA.
I'm just wondering if anyone agrees with me that A/NA is NOT a cure... and that it only treats addiction (via redirection) rather than addressing the cyclical/self-absorbed nature of addictive personalities.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: poke smot!]
    #3638828 - 01/17/05 12:25 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

poke smot! said:
"only" isn't the right word there. Yeah, it's nice to meet new people and hook up with girls but that is not why everyone is there.



Hehe... I know several people who, I think, go primarily for social reasons.
Quote:

IMO people at NA are very compassionate compared to the average person I might run into at, say, walmart.



I think anyone who attempts to understand themselves will be more compassionate than they were before. But as far as comparing A/NA people to the average Joe... from my experience, the A/NA people are a helluva lot more selfish.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRandolph_Carter
НơĻ?ĢΉō

Registered: 06/13/00
Posts: 29,281
Loc: Shroomery B-list.
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: Sclorch]
    #3638863 - 01/17/05 12:30 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

I don't think one can "cure" an addictive personality short of serious permanant memory loss....it's too deeply ingrained and intertwined with the personality.
And that's ignoring the biochemical pathways taht are generally unique to an addictive personality.

This is also why i think AA is a crock of shit. There is no cure, but it's a word used far too much.


--------------------
"..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street."  Gibson


Nuke baby seals for Jesus!

(This has been a +1 production.)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 1 year, 28 days
Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: Sclorch]
    #3638937 - 01/17/05 12:41 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

an actual cure; stop doing it.

Addiction is like habit, one makes either.


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineZekebomb
sociophagus

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 1,164
Loc: BC province
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: Gomp]
    #3639937 - 01/17/05 04:42 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

anyone heard about ibogaine, from a plant (i think) called iboga, and it's a hallucinogen which makes you have a crazy DMT-esque visual trip during which you meet various entities, and they tell you about your addictions and at the end you're not addicted to whatever it was anymore because you can now see your addiction so clearly? yeah I know, I don't believe it either, but some people swear by their iboga experiences.

iboga: the magic drug that cures addictions. if only

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3639998 - 01/17/05 04:55 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, I have heard of it, and it appears to be the real deal. Following an ibogaine session, patients almost always lose their dependency on substances with NO WITHDRAWAL symptoms!

Of course the U.S. government quickly moved to have it scheduled. This after conferring with their pharmaceutical paymasters.

Can't have safe and natural (read non synthetic/marketable) cures readily available now can we?


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3641424 - 01/17/05 10:14 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Actually Zeke, I forgot about that. Was it the Russians who were having so much success with ibogaine?


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecrazyman
Brass or Steel

Registered: 11/06/98
Posts: 932
Loc: chucktown
Last seen: 16 years, 8 days
Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: Randolph_Carter]
    #3641555 - 01/17/05 10:41 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I don't think one can "cure" an addictive personality short of serious permanant memory loss....it's too deeply ingrained and intertwined with the personality.
And that's ignoring the biochemical pathways taht are generally unique to an addictive personality.

This is also why i think AA is a crock of shit. There is no cure, but it's a word used far too much.





AA has NEVER stated that they or anyone/thing else has a "CURE" for alcholism/addiction... What they offer is a spiritual, (not religious), way of life that can lead to a phychic change or spiritual awakening, or personality change sufficient to bring about r-e-c-o-v-e-r-y, not a cure. Everyone in life has but a daily reprieve. And some of us utilize that reprieve contingent on a spiritual basis of dvelopement......Enter AA/NA as some of the most chronic abusers of us need in order to not only survive, but LIVE life.


--------------------
I want to live in Northern Exposure. Ed Chigliak would be my pal.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecrazyman
Brass or Steel

Registered: 11/06/98
Posts: 932
Loc: chucktown
Last seen: 16 years, 8 days
Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: crazyman]
    #3645680 - 01/18/05 08:49 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

I'm an alcoholic. Yeaaaaah! :cheers:


--------------------
I want to live in Northern Exposure. Ed Chigliak would be my pal.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDark_Star
train driver pervading a desktop
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 31,859
Loc: Uranus
Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: Sclorch]
    #3645809 - 01/18/05 09:09 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

I don't buy into that christian bullshit....they're too hypocritical, I believe in God and Jesus....but not the version the various christian church pushes, that's the opposite of what it'a all about. Anyway, I didn't mean to vent about that, i'm posting to say that LSD mushrooms and MDMA, but mainly LSD cured me of my addictions, more than once.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblewhiterasta
Day careobserver
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Oregon
Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: Sclorch]
    #3647384 - 01/19/05 08:02 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

LSD saved me from an early 80's ounce a week cocaine/1/4oz a week heroin habit. I AM cured of ANY desire for cocaine or any stimulant beyond tea. I can be around it and only feel disgust ,no craving or even the stray "maybe just a taste" thoughts. Of course I did not attend any treatment facility(Schick was still electrocuting smokers back then) I made a conscious decision to stop folowing a STRONG recomendation by my psyche during an LSD experience. Treatment works for some but becomes a crutch for many of those.
Just my experience.
WR :wexican:


--------------------
To old for this place

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: whiterasta]
    #3648472 - 01/19/05 01:43 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

whiterasta said:
LSD saved me from an early 80's ounce a week cocaine/1/4oz a week heroin habit. I AM cured of ANY desire for cocaine or any stimulant beyond tea. I can be around it and only feel disgust ,no craving or even the stray "maybe just a taste" thoughts. Of course I did not attend any treatment facility(Schick was still electrocuting smokers back then) I made a conscious decision to stop folowing a STRONG recomendation by my psyche during an LSD experience. Treatment works for some but becomes a crutch for many of those.
Just my experience.
WR :wexican:




This is exactly what I was looking for.
I've seen people break addictions.  I've broken addictions.  I know it can be done.  I also will concede that A/NA might help some people actually change their addictive personalities (even if I have yet to see it), but by-and-large I think A/NA serves only to redirect addiction.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblepoke smot!
floccinocci floofinator
Male

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 5,248
Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction *DELETED* [Re: Dark_Star]
    #3648632 - 01/19/05 02:16 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Post deleted by poke smot!

Reason for deletion: x


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* A.A. not just alcohol anonymous anymore...
( 1 2 all )
uriahchase 1,648 20 06/21/05 11:24 PM
by Huehuecoyotl
* my addiction...
( 1 2 all )
uriahchase 3,662 27 03/28/05 12:22 PM
by fireworks_god
* Addiction
( 1 2 all )
juicemonkey 2,163 26 01/08/03 04:17 AM
by Tannis
* Alcohol
( 1 2 3 all )
psyka 4,382 43 11/08/04 09:56 PM
by Anonymous
* Alcoholics Anonymous
( 1 2 all )
Frog 2,858 20 01/16/04 01:19 AM
by Zero7a1
* mushrooms as cure for the foolishness Alexander 3,144 19 07/16/01 06:29 AM
by Kid
* crack-heads,tweakers,junkies,pot-heads,stoners,addicts,etc. uriahchase 2,153 16 02/01/05 12:43 PM
by MegaloMello
* addiction and drugs CleverName 1,610 14 10/28/02 09:24 PM
by CleverName

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
6,706 topic views. 0 members, 10 guests and 21 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.03 seconds spending 0.006 seconds on 14 queries.