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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Global Poll Slams Bush Leadership.
    #3644952 - 01/18/05 08:45 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4185205.stm

More than half of people surveyed in a BBC world service Poll say that the Re-Election of Bush has made the world more dangerous.

quote" this is quite a grim picture for the U.S."



UN-fucking-believable a group of people who hate the U.S. ask another group of people who hate the U.S. ....if they like the U.S.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Global Poll Slams Bush Leadership. [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3645048 - 01/18/05 09:02 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I think we need to stop trying to interfere with world affairs for a while and see what the other nations think then. I am willing to bet they will be begging for us to start helping out again. Then again I don't think we have any right to interfere with the actions of nations other than our own unless they have attacked us (and yes allowing terrorists to operate on their soil is the same as attacking us IMHO).


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


Edited by z@z.com (01/18/05 09:02 PM)


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OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Global Poll Slams Bush Leadership. [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3645087 - 01/18/05 09:09 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
UN-fucking-believable a group of people who hate the U.S. ask another group of people who hate the U.S. ....if they like the U.S.




Yep. Popularity contests among the ignorant masses in inferiority complex troubled rival countries must somehow be a legitimate measure of America's leadership. If you think the People's Choice awards suck it's an even worse way to judge a country. If the BBC could go back in time they should make a story like this "Poll showing 100% of citizens living in the Communist Block dissaprove of the US, paints a troubling picture!"


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Global Poll Slams Bush Leadership. [Re: z@z.com]
    #3645114 - 01/18/05 09:15 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

and yes allowing terrorists to operate on their soil is the same as attacking us IMHO

By that rational should Central and South American countries be allowed to preemptively attack the US?

http://www.soaw.org/new/

Quote:

The US Army School of Americas (SOA), based in Fort Benning, Georgia, trains Latin American soldiers in combat, counter-insurgency, and counter-narcotics.




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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Global Poll Slams Bush Leadership. [Re: cb9fl]
    #3645178 - 01/18/05 09:27 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Nice retort. I am against our actions in South America especially if the information in that link is correct. I am not sure how to answer that question. Just call me undecided (unless they [the South Americans] target civilians in attacks then I am against it).


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Global Poll Slams Bush Leadership. [Re: z@z.com]
    #3645584 - 01/18/05 10:36 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

There have been like 60,000 students at the school of Americas and like 30 of them got involved in death squads and that kind of stuff. Like the usual procedure, you blame the school and not the students. They found some training manuals for using forms of mild torture a few DECADES ago but when that got out they had several majot overhauls. The whole school of Americas thing is about 75% bullshit. Nothing negative has happened related to that school in years, but people still allege they are teaching terrorism. I know because I used to live with a bunch of protesters and I read all their literature. It's just like the Leonard Peltier thing, they give you one side of the story to get you angry.

I'm sure some High Schools in South Central LA graduated murderers, should we shut them down too?


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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Invisibletrick

Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 1,059
Loc: unknown
Re: Global Poll Slams Bush Leadership. [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3646341 - 01/19/05 12:34 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

it doesn't matter who's president, the world will always hate the united states of america and at most the white man.

the afrikan holocaust
the native american holocaust
the ecological genocide
hiroshima, nagasaki
the list goes on and on.

stop trying to interfer with world affairs would not do anything for the country. why do you think the united states government has anything to do with the middle east? they don't care about terrorism or people's lives. this is purely about economical things. you know what the first thing the U.S. army did when they got to Iraq? Secured the oil fields. they are already putting up billboards and types of advertisements in Iraq. they will be outsourcing technical jobs overseas to iraqis with computers and you know whose software will be on those computers? Microsoft. As far as I'm concerned...the tsunami should have happened here.


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Invisibleblacksabbathrulz
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Registered: 05/22/02
Posts: 2,511
Re: Global Poll Slams Bush Leadership. [Re: trick]
    #3646611 - 01/19/05 01:41 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

trick said:
it doesn't matter who's president, the world will always hate the united states of america and at most the white man.

the afrikan holocaust
the native american holocaust
the ecological genocide
hiroshima, nagasaki
the list goes on and on.

stop trying to interfer with world affairs would not do anything for the country. why do you think the united states government has anything to do with the middle east? they don't care about terrorism or people's lives. this is purely about economical things. you know what the first thing the U.S. army did when they got to Iraq? Secured the oil fields. they are already putting up billboards and types of advertisements in Iraq. they will be outsourcing technical jobs overseas to iraqis with computers and you know whose software will be on those computers? Microsoft. As far as I'm concerned...the tsunami should have happened here.




They secured the oil fields to prevent a huge ecological disaster in the event that insurgents/Saddam lit them on fire. Huge problems result from that.


--------------------
.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Global Poll Slams Bush Leadership. [Re: trick]
    #3646850 - 01/19/05 02:35 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)


it doesn't matter who's president, the world will always hate the united states of america and at most the white man.

True. People always hate whomever is the most successful and powerful.


the afrikan holocaust
the native american holocaust
the ecological genocide
hiroshima, nagasaki
the list goes on and on.

I could list tons of atrocities committed by other countries and peoples. Do you remember what happened in Rwanda in the 90's? Have you heard about what is happening in the Darfur region in Africa? What about the rape of Nanking by Japanese troops? What about the Holocaust? What about the Stalinist purges?


stop trying to interfer with world affairs would not do anything for the country.

If we did, people would bitch and complain that they needed help. I say the U.S. should withdraw from the world stage and let the savages and unenlightened of this world suffer in their cesspools. No more economic aid, military protection, or help. If they hate us so much, let's see how well they survive without us.


why do you think the united states government has anything to do with the middle east?

We got involved in the beginning because of oil. Now we are involved because of terrorism and oil.


you know what the first thing the U.S. army did when they got to Iraq? Secured the oil fields.

Damn right. Oil is the only resource Iraq has. It needed to be protected and secured so that the Iraqi people would have something.


they are already putting up billboards and types of advertisements in Iraq. they will be outsourcing technical jobs overseas to iraqis with computers and you know whose software will be on those computers? Microsoft.

If things go well in Iraq and a prosperous free market democracy comes about, there will definately be money to be made. So what?


As far as I'm concerned...the tsunami should have happened here.

How nice of you to advocate mass murder of your fellow citizens.


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Offlinemethikist
Mushroom Pirate.

Registered: 03/16/04
Posts: 138
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: Global Poll Slams Bush Leadership. [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3646979 - 01/19/05 03:20 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

You can't be so naive RandalFlagg,


Quote:


Damn right. Oil is the only resource Iraq has. It needed to be protected and secured so that the Iraqi people would have something.





You think the oil goes to Iraq? That's preposterous.
The oil goes explicitly to multinational corporations, of whom originate predominantly from the United States. Iraq doesn't get their own oil, what they get is pretty simple; murdered, bombed, pillaged, and stolen from, in some cases tortured and humiliated. Not because they pose some threat to us, it's because we want their resource and we want military bases in the Middle East. It's a fairly good example of Thucydides maxim; "The strong do what they will and the weak suffer what they must."

Iraq is a major lever of world control for any country. Do you think there is any idealism in the terrorism being comitted against Iraq? the answer is no. The USA cares not for the sufferage of others, they do what is in their best interest and spin it as if it was in someone elses. Attacking Iraq is an outright war crime, plain and simple. Those in the whitehouse should be placed on Trials similar to those of Nuremburg. Apply the same rules to yourself that you apply to others.

Lead by example.


--------------------
Oh cmon, I'm a fun guy.


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Offlinedeafpanda
Stranger
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 984
Loc: Inguland
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Re: Global Poll Slams Bush Leadership. [Re: methikist]
    #3647172 - 01/19/05 07:14 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

This comes up so often. For the billionth time, HATING BUSH IS NOT THE SAME AS HATING THE US. I like loads of things about the US, but I would chop one of my arms off to see the Bush administration go (forgive the hyperbole). Bush has been VERY detrimental to the environment and global stability.

When Clinton was president it was a lot different, the world had some respect for him. You can't write off objections to Bush as objections to the US. To do so is idiotic.

The world hates your foreign policy, not you.

Edit: replied to wrong person


Edited by deafpanda (01/19/05 07:15 AM)


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InvisibleSoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst

Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 1,690
Re: Global Poll Slams Bush Leadership. [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3647622 - 01/19/05 11:34 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Our US Poll conducted in November tells the world to "Mind your own motherfucking business. IF you don't like us, stop sticking your hand out for loot whenever something bad happens, and stop asking us to provide you with aide, financially or militarily." Has the world listened? Of course not.


--------------------


Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man


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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: Global Poll Slams Bush Leadership. [Re: deafpanda]
    #3647686 - 01/19/05 11:57 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

deafpanda said:
This comes up so often.  For the billionth time, HATING BUSH IS NOT THE SAME AS HATING THE US.  I like loads of things about the US, but I would chop one of my arms off to see the Bush administration go (forgive the hyperbole).  Bush has been VERY detrimental to the environment and global stability.

When Clinton was president it was a lot different, the world had some respect for him.  You can't write off objections to Bush as objections to the US.  To do so is idiotic.

The world hates your foreign policy, not you.





:thumbup: :heart:

And anyways, Lonestar, you don't have to hate Bush to get a poll with results showing that Bush is hated around the world. Were you really hoping that Bush was going to be respected around the world?


--------------------


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Global Poll Slams Bush Leadership. [Re: methikist]
    #3648334 - 01/19/05 03:17 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)


You think the oil goes to Iraq? That's preposterous.
The oil goes explicitly to multinational corporations, of whom originate predominantly from the United States. Iraq doesn't get their own oil, what they get is pretty simple; murdered, bombed, pillaged, and stolen from, in some cases tortured and humiliated.

Show me proof that the U.S. has stolen any oil or the revenues collected from the sale of oil.


Not because they pose some threat to us, it's because we want their resource and we want military bases in the Middle East.

There were many geopolitic reasons to take out Saddam and rebuild Iraq. Oil and a military base are just two of them.


It's a fairly good example of Thucydides maxim; "The strong do what they will and the weak suffer what they must."

Here's a liberal maxim, "Hate the strong and love the weak no matter what the circumstances or results are."


The USA cares not for the sufferage of others, they do what is in their best interest and spin it as if it was in someone elses.

Nations do what is in their best interest all of the time. Why is it only a crime when the U.S. does it? It could be argued that by getting rid of Saddam's government, that allowed the UN sanctions to be lifted, which means that Iraq can be rebuilt and the infrastructure will get better, which means that the material situation of the Iraqi people would get better so they won't starve anymore.


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InvisibleCalifornia
A E S T H E T I C S A T A N
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Registered: 12/27/04
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Re: Global Poll Slams Bush Leadership. [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3649194 - 01/19/05 06:11 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Until some nation steps up and shows some skill and talent at running things around this small world AMERICA WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO!


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Global Poll Slams Bush Leadership. [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3649297 - 01/19/05 06:26 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

There were many geopolitic reasons to take out Saddam and rebuild Iraq.

There were many geopolitical reasons to prop Saddam up in the 70s and 80s; none having anything more to do morality than today's reasons.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
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Re: Global Poll Slams Bush Leadership. [Re: Swami]
    #3649384 - 01/19/05 06:39 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)


There were many geopolitical reasons to prop Saddam up in the 70s and 80s; none having anything more to do morality than today's reasons.

You might have a point.


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InvisibleCalifornia
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Re: Global Poll Slams Bush Leadership. [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3649488 - 01/19/05 06:57 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

We propped him up to bring him down.


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OfflineMushmonkey
shiftlesslayabout
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Registered: 09/26/03
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Re: Global Poll Slams Bush Leadership. [Re: methikist]
    #3649534 - 01/19/05 07:06 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Attacking Iraq is an outright war crime, plain and simple.




wahwahwah

under the conditions that established the whole weapons inspectors thing, one of the consequences of not cooperating with them and of not being forthright with information was military action

saddam was fucking around, thinking that no one would attack.. you know that kid, the one who pushes and pushes and pushes because he knows you won't punish him for it?
well, he lost his bet, and now he lost his pretty little dictatorship. tough balls.

you can debate all day whether it was the right thing to do or not.. but fact is he had not been cooperating and suffered the consequences.

let's say i think you're hiding apples from me.. i just kicked your ass, and part of the agreement we come to is that i get to send someone into your house to make sure you don't have any apples, and to destroy any that are found, and if you don't cooperate I'll pee in your bed
guy asks to check out the bathroom, you jump in front of the door and start babbling, and that scenerio is played out a hundred times.
finally I break into your house and piss all over your comforter. The apple inspector did find apples, and they were destroyed, and you ate two before he got there.. but he only could find and destroy 7. that's 9 in all, and I know damn well that I sold you 10 apples just last week. You insist there is no 10th apple.. it may have rotted and been thrown out, but part of the agreement was that you must account for -ALL- apples.


--------------------
i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Global Poll Slams Bush Leadership. [Re: California]
    #3649648 - 01/19/05 07:30 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)


We propped him up to bring him down.

We propped him up as a counter to Soviet influence in the region and as a counter to the newly founded Islamic Republic of Iran.


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