Home | Community | Message Board


Out-Grow.com - Mushroom Growing Kits & Supplies
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
OfflineJ4S0N
human
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/29/04
Posts: 284
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Communicating with the dead
    #3643269 - 01/18/05 02:35 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

http://www.dailystar.com/dailystar/dailystar/57187.php

Quote:

"There is no question this is not a fraud - some people really can do this, and Allison is one of them," said psychology professor Gary E. Schwartz, who directs the UA's Human Energy Systems Laboratory




Quote:

"Many people claim to do this, and there are clearly frauds out there. Allison was repeatedly tested and passed every test.

"As a scientist, I approach all this as an agnostic - I don't believe it; I don't disbelieve it. After testing her under conditions that ruled out the possibility of fraud, I came to the conclusion she's the real deal."




So what do you all think of this? Pretty interesting, especially coming from scientists.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblespudamore
Stranger
Male
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 1,460
Loc: Australia
Re: Communicating with the dead [Re: J4S0N]
    #3643351 - 01/18/05 02:55 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

waiting for somebody to bring up randi, come on people i knwo you are dying to say it


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Communicating with the dead [Re: spudamore]
    #3643457 - 01/18/05 03:21 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

More like living to say Fuck Randi? Living to say, fuck money and fuck you to the who that wishes to control the uncontainable with it. It's like putting a ghost in a box, crank the wheel and pop goes the door and nothing is there to the one looking in the box.

frequencies , how does you voice get turned into code that runs though space bouncing off sattelites and back into a voice someone can hear on the other side of the globe? I can use my Cordless phone and talk with someone in china.

I can use my heart phone and talk with someone disembodied, big deal. science has already figured out how to use frequencies for long distance communication.

Why do some wish to keep mysteries alive only to resist them?

Why do some wish to deny mysteries only to resist them?

Why do some wish to resist and deny the self?

The ultimate death wish, put a tag on your toe as you get shoved into a concrete wall you are done before you began. Good luck catching any light in there.

They arn't dying spudamore, they are already dead. RIP

Wanna go get some icecream and splash around in a brook spud? It's a beautiful day.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblespudamore
Stranger
Male
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 1,460
Loc: Australia
Re: Communicating with the dead [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3643508 - 01/18/05 03:39 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

its so sad that some reject the "unimaginable" unless if it has passed the randi test.

beautiful day, ice cream, with you?
hell yeah

or as gomp would say me and you are already dead.


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem


Edited by spudamore (01/18/05 03:44 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibledorkus
don't look back
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
Re: Communicating with the dead [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3643590 - 01/18/05 04:03 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Don't know if I did catch your full meaning, but your point of view seems a little judging too. Is it hard to understand that people who lack these experiences are having trouble accepting and believing that others indeed do have these abilities?

One cannot always choose what one believes.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Communicating with the dead [Re: J4S0N]
    #3644230 - 01/18/05 06:16 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

The real-life Phoenix woman who inspired the new TV drama "Medium" can indeed contact dead people, according to scientific - and controversial - tests performed on her at the University of Arizona.
Scientists confirmed this by directly asking the dead people what they thought of her "readings".

In real life, Dubois, 33 next week, has used her paranormal talents to help police in Phoenix and in other states solve crimes...
Define "help". Why are there no details of these amazing revelations?

Although the studies have stirred controversy nationwide and have been slammed by several skeptics...

"There is no question this is not a fraud..."

Obviously there are questions as the writer of the article points out, yet the researcher denies this. I have previously covered this type of blanket statement, which is an attempt to silence critcs. It is a subtle varioation of " Intelligent people will agree..."

"Many people claim to do this, and there are clearly frauds out there."
So once again, why should others not question his study?

"After testing her under conditions that ruled out the possibility of fraud, I came to the conclusion she's the real deal."
Uri Geller was tested as "real" by trained scientists who were unaware of the tricks used. This was where Randi came in and showed how easy farud was by repeating Geller's "feats.

Dubois first called Schwartz four years ago, after seeing him on a "Dateline" NBC segment with John Edward on paranormal powers. She wanted to see how good her "gift" really was.
Please dont get me started on that scumbag, Edward who feeds off the pain of people.

Schwartz first put Dubois through a direct, informal reading on himself. A beloved mentor of his had just died, but he told her nothing about that woman. Among other things, Dubois told Schwartz "the deceased was telling me that I must share the following - I don't walk alone," a seemingly innocuous piece of information, but critical to him.

"My friend had been confined to a wheelchair in her last years - there is no way Allison could have known that," he said.

Maybe there is no way that Allison could have known about the wheelchair-bound friend, but, of course, that is not what she said (that he said). "I don't walk alone" does NOT equate to, I was unable to walk for the last three years of my life. The scientist put his own spin on this wide-open statement.

In some cases, fake mediums also have been known to tap phones and hire detectives to get vital information on people they are going to read. That is impossible if the medium does not know who the person is.
And at the time the scientists were likely fooled until the tricks were exposed.

A transcript of the information Dubois got during the reading - supposedly from the dead husband - was sent to his wife in England, who scored it as 73 percent accurate.
A random psychic "reading" (a pre-canned spiel wherein every person was given the exact same reading) conducted as an experiment at a mall scored much higher at 88%. All this means is that people filter ANY data given and make correlations whether they exist or not.

"That's extraordinarily high accuracy, and Allison always scored in the near-80 percent range," Schwartz said. "That clearly puts her among the best of the best."
*yawn*

No psychic medium is 100 percent accurate, he said.
How surprising.

According to a summary of the reading done by Schwartz, she told him the deceased person was a man of great stature, extremely handsome, had beautiful women around him,
Wow! That is totally astounding. Whos is going to say, "Your father was butt-ugly and your Mom was heinous,"?

But she also told him his father was connected to the U.S. oil and steel industry, and there was a small dark terrier dog in his life - not true, Chopra said. Her accuracy score - 77 percent, according to Chopra's scoring, Schwartz said.
Notice she failed with a more specific detail. That is much harder than a generality.

But Schwartz's careful design of these studies doesn't persuade skeptics, who say his work proves nothing.
Because it doesn't.

Hyman's research has included examination of alleged psychic readings and critiques of parapsychological experiments. He acknowledges that Schwartz has excellent academic credentials but blasts his medium research.

Probably no other extended program in psychical research deviates so much from the accepted norms of scientific methodology as this one." "

After reviewing Schwartz's book, "The Afterlife Experiments," he said readings by Schwartz's "star mediums," like Dubois, "strike me as no different in kind from those of any run-of-the-mill psychic readers and as completely consistent with cold (fake) readings."
:thumbup:

Perhaps more entertaining is the ongoing public feud Schwartz has with the flamboyant magician and professional skeptic James Randi, who has offered $1 million to "anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event."

Randi even wrote a letter to the University of Arizona Foundation in 2001, asking the university to submit Schwartz's research data to an independent panel for evaluation, to see if the UA might win the $1 million.

Schwartz rejected Randi's million-dollar bait.

"I refused for the same reason all serious scientists in America and Europe have refused. The process of this prize lacks scientific credibility and integrity," he said. "This guy is not a scientist - he is a mediocre magician who loves the public eye."

No he refused because his work will be shown to be seriously flawed.

Just how Allison Dubois could have faked what she told Phran Ginsberg about her teenage daughter Bailey - who died in a car crash two years ago - baffles Ginsberg.

"Then she told me Bailey wished me 'Happy Valentine's Day.'

The "psychic" did not use the name "Bailey". The Mom inserted that piece of missing information like everything else.

"Right then, I knew Allison was the real deal," Ginsberg said. Dubois also had described the accident and Bailey's fatal head injury.
Teenagers usually die from head (as opposed to big toe) injuries, such as gunshot wounds or car accident. This prescience is called "statistics".


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
 User Gallery Arcade Champion: BMX Tricks
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,417
Last seen: 10 months, 15 days
Re: Communicating with the dead [Re: Swami]
    #3644417 - 01/18/05 07:01 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Ok, lets say you die, yet your consciousness still exists (or better put- you). Would you really want yourself to roam this planet trying to communicate with the boring living? what a tortured existence that would be. People who like to think that their dead grandmother is watching over them or whatnot are self absorbed hope mongers, and these supposed psychics only placate that. If for one second they actually thought about how miserable an existence would be if they had to watch you for the rest of your mundane life jacking off in the shower, they would start to hope that their dead grandmother had ascended to a level of knowingness, and thusly would realize that death is not a finality, and life is only fleeting, and would not care about how you lived out your life here on earth.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineskystone
stop the motion
Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 465
Loc: state,country,etc.
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: Communicating with the dead [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3644818 - 01/18/05 08:22 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
Ok, lets say you die, yet your consciousness still exists (or better put- you). Would you really want yourself to roam this planet trying to communicate with the boring living? what a tortured existence that would be. People who like to think that their dead grandmother is watching over them or whatnot are self absorbed hope mongers, and these supposed psychics only placate that. If for one second they actually thought about how miserable an existence would be if they had to watch you for the rest of your mundane life jacking off in the shower, they would start to hope that their dead grandmother had ascended to a level of knowingness, and thusly would realize that death is not a finality, and life is only fleeting, and would not care about how you lived out your life here on earth.




The common idea between spiritists and parapsychologists is that
these souls get stuck in between the two worlds to speak metaphorically, or more specifically they can't let go of the idea that they are living on earth as biological beings, so their mind
addiction keeps them somewhere in between the material plane and the
higher planes of existence.

And considering how the mindsets of current common folks are are attached to materialism and symbols, the toys of ego, I wouldn't be suprized if that was so...of course ONLY IF there is such afterlife at all


--------------------
"..and suddenly it began to rain"


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblespudamore
Stranger
Male
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 1,460
Loc: Australia
Re: Communicating with the dead [Re: Swami]
    #3644924 - 01/18/05 08:39 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

you now know what others think? and speak for them now too?


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleLe_Canard
Danger Man

Registered: 05/17/03
Posts: 93,263
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: Communicating with the dead [Re: J4S0N]
    #3645301 - 01/18/05 09:55 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Actually, I think it would be safe to say that we just don't know what happens to us after we die! In fact, no one does. I know I damn sure don't!
Be that as it may, I'd like to think there's an afterlife, but I don't let that cloud my judgement....


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,329
Loc: On the Border
Re: Communicating with the dead [Re: spudamore]
    #3645322 - 01/18/05 10:00 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

The term scientist implies that scientific method is used. Scientific method has NEVER validated the paranormal. Using "scientist" in this way is a misnomer. Due to personal experience I believe that there is something to paranormal activity, but hearing the word scientist used in this way sets off my BS meter strongly. In my opinion, these guys are trying to deceive someone.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Communicating with the dead [Re: dorkus]
    #3646715 - 01/19/05 02:03 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

dr_mandelbrot said:
Don't know if I did catch your full meaning, but your point of view seems a little judging too. Is it hard to understand that people who lack these experiences are having trouble accepting and believing that others indeed do have these abilities?

One cannot always choose what one believes.




It's not difficult to understand at all. How does one not have the ability to choose a belief? Do beliefs choose us? Who does your choosing for you? You are over 18 right? Even if your religion chooses for you, you choose your religion. I can't think of one example where one does not choose their own beliefs.

Anyway, this Randi guy is to unbelievable to me. I do not believe he exists. You can post pictures of him and I will say they are obvious fakes and you can give me eye witness accounts from people who claim to have seen him and know him and I will say, those are fakes too and delusioned people who were tricked into believing they saw this character creature named Randi.

The only way I will believe he exists is if you get him to show up at my front door. Even then, to have a guy standing there saying, "Hi I am Randi, I am in fear, limitation and self denial and wish to come into your home and reduce your life back to the nothingness and darkness from which it came, and will do so with mediocre magic tricks because I am so lame and useless I have no other way to get public attention", I still probably wouldn't believe it.

I would think it had to be an elaborate hoax, a total joke, I would probably start laughing at him.

I will give you this Dr. Mandelbrot, even magicians like Randi who can take something and turn it into nothing need love too, so fuck off was a harsh sentiment to put upon someone so desperately in need of love, acknowledgment and attention. If I was in fear and self denial I would be in desperate need of those things too. I do have love and compassion and understanding to give. You can replace my comments with love and compassion and understanding from me. I must have been out of my mind to say such things.

Hey, if we go out of our minds, where do we go? Are we where the dead people are? Where are they if they are in our minds? Cuz people say we are out of our minds if we believe we can communicate with them, and then tell us it is all in our imagination which is in our mind. Which is it anyway?

Jason,

thank you for sharing that. hahahahah it was funny to read about Randi being shunned by university professors for being a mediocre magician in need of the public eye. He's not stopping evolution or discovery from being experienced by people and life is passing him by. Tag his toe he's already dead, maybe that is why he wants people to give their power of belief over to him and draw negative attention to himself so he can feel alive with their energy. That is the oldest trick in the book, mediocre magician indeed.

I've been tuning into the new show medium and I am really enjoying it.  :thumbup:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibledorkus
don't look back
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
Re: Communicating with the dead [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3647965 - 01/19/05 01:21 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Experience forms believes. Parental and societal programming also plays a major role, I think.

I envy your ability to choose your own beliefs. I will start working on that too  :thumbup: But sometimes I wonder if one really is to choose ones beliefs. Whatever happened to "No expectations"? Many teachers of meditation claim that pre-chosen beliefs will cloud the mind, and that your meditations therefore will be colored by illusory experiences.

If you meet Buddha on your path, kill him :wink:



A zen story:

"The Emperor asked Master Gudo, "What happens to a man of enlightenment after death?"
"How should I know?" replied Gudo.

"Because you are a master," answered the Emperor.

"Yes sir," said Gudo, "but not a dead one." "


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Communicating with the dead [Re: dorkus]
    #3648039 - 01/19/05 02:13 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Okay, maybe lets look at it this way so you can see it out in front of you.

Your parents have beleifs and they tell you to beleive them because they beleive they are good. You still have the choice to beleive in them or not. If you choose to beleive that they know better then you, then really, what you are doing, is giving your power to choose over to them.

Substitute your parents with anyone or thing. It is your choice to beleive if something knows better then you or not and if you think they know best for you, then, you give your power away and they now have control of it and they can use it against you, your own power that is. maybe they will use it to help you, only your experience can tell. I say its best to be able to trust in yourself and get use to being in control of your own power and choice making.

This is a good subject to touch on, because appearently, peple give their power away all the time and do not realise it, and then feel helpless, out of control, and end up insecure and in fear. From there, it is easy to then start balming others for doing something to you. That feeling of someone making you feel something can only be experienced, IF it is your own power you gave away coming back to you.

If I do not give my power of belief to Joe Blow, thinking he knows better then me, he can call me every name in the book and "nothing". If I give my power of beleif over to my husband and choose to beleive he knows better then me, then he can call me every name and criticise me or my other choices and it will hurt. It is my own power being used against me. It would also allow for me to blame him for making me feel bad and stupid and wrong.

Not so, I just felt wrong to begin with if I made him more right. I must've felt stupid to begin with if I made him smarter. I must've felt bad to begin with if I made him better.

You see, it all comes back to you.

Thats what I was talking about. If people choose to beleive you can not communicate with discarnate beings, it is their choice not to. They gave their power over to people like Randi. To say, maybe we can maybe we can't if you have not experienced it for yourself, is holding on to your choice and your power. It's choosing to beleive nothing either way.

If you coose to beleive anothers beleifs, it is your choice to do so.

No one is in control of your mind, unless you give control away. Even then, you are the one in control of that. If you don't like how they are controling you then take the power of control back.

As far as the stuff about not having beleifs, I can dig that. Its best to keep it all fluid as experience and new info comes your way, they change. I choose mostly not to set a beleifs in stone as absolutes. I had one, cause and effect, and even lately I have taken that out of stone. I now think it can be transcended. There was one more and that was the only thing that never changes is change itself. I can see where that is may not be an aboslute either. There can just infinite ways of looking at and experiencing the one that remains the same and the only thing that changes is point of perspective.

beleifs get sticky only when you get attached to them. You can use them as creational tools without being atached to them. They can be used like door ways into other worlds of experience or molds to shape ideal realities. In this use, they are in the realms of play. They themselves are not real any more then the experiences and realities they can create.

Here's an analogy. I can pick up a crayon and use it as a tool to create a drawing of a blue cat. I can let go of the crayon and drop it once I want to stop creating blue cats for my experiential visual entertainment.

The crayon is a creative tool like a belief. the blue cat is no more real then the nasty neighbor I create in my mind with beleifs that she is an ogre. When I am done being entertained by her ogreness, I wil drop my creative tool, the beleif that makes her one and I can pick up a new tool, a belief that makes her a loving angel and then, I can make that out of her for my experiential entertainment.

Or use the mold, I can put clay into it and make a heart out of it if it is shaped like a heart. The mold is a tool for shapping the clay and your reality is as malleable as clay. When I want to craft a diamond, i will let go of the heart shaped mold and pick up a diamond shaped mold, new belief, and use that tool to reshape the clay heart into something else.

This is how I see and use beleifs to craft experiential realities for myself.

Well, what more can I say, but its your choice to choose what you will and your freedom to rechoose again and again as it suits you. I would pay attention to what I said about how we can give our power away to others and how it can be used against us. The crayon/mold anaologies are examples of how we take our power back and begin living self empowered. Its all clay and you are the artist of YOUR life. Don't let others paint it dingy and ugly for you.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Edited by gettinjiggywithit (01/19/05 02:30 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibledorkus
don't look back
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
Re: Communicating with the dead [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3653585 - 01/20/05 03:03 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Thank you, jiggy. Sometimes you seem to know me better than myself. Hehe. I will try to work on it...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,866
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 1 month, 30 days
Re: Communicating with the dead [Re: dorkus]
    #3653634 - 01/20/05 03:21 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

one does not communicate whit the dead, the dead [are], communication.. :P 

:shrug:


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Communicating with the dead [Re: dorkus]
    #3653699 - 01/20/05 03:43 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

dr_mandelbrot said:
Thank you, jiggy. Sometimes you seem to know me better than myself. Hehe. I will try to work on it...




I just remember that part of me that is also you. Remember me in you , remember you in me, thats how we know others as ourselves and grow as the one we are.

:heart:

and like gomp says, trying brings the experience of trying.

Doing gets things done.

Assume the position of the done doer and be it.

And sorry it took so long but the question you asked me in PMs long ago is answered in the taking your power back part.  :sun: :hug:

gomp, "the discarnate are frequencies of communication in spirit".....cool visual! :thumbup:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Where are my fellow magicians?
( 1 2 all )
Worldbridger 2,004 23 07/27/05 04:20 PM
by Swami
* If magic was real, scientists would be magicians TheCow 758 8 04/23/08 06:51 PM
by fireworks_god
* book of the dead jahfeelirie 1,699 12 04/23/04 09:59 PM
by faelr
* Mormon leader dead at 97 Ferris 685 5 01/29/08 02:26 AM
by fireworks_god
* Alien Communication
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Swami 3,065 68 06/16/04 09:51 PM
by Huehuecoyotl
* James Van Praagh - communicator with the dead? Swami 860 16 02/04/04 01:05 AM
by Sclorch
* ViBrAnT is dead...
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
sTePpInGoNsToNeS 5,204 98 09/29/03 06:55 AM
by fireworks_god
* The Pope is Dead
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
Swami 3,132 94 04/03/05 03:49 PM
by TrippinNinjaBuddha

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Diploid, DividedQuantum
1,143 topic views. 2 members, 5 guests and 11 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Out-Grow.com - Mushroom Growing Kits & Supplies
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.103 seconds spending 0.002 seconds on 14 queries.