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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Agar, Gypsum, Rye Grain, Wild Bird Seed

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InvisibleNOS4A2
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Please tell me what I did wrong.(pic)
    #3638340 - 01/17/05 12:22 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Pc'd 5 pints of WBS last night for an hour. I soaked for 12 hr, then I loaded 6g of seed to 3g of water per jar. For lids I had layers; bottom - metal lid with half dozen 1/4" holes, on top of that a tyvek disk, then a lid with a 2" hole, on top of that another tyvek disk, and then the ring. The ring was tight. I then filled pc 3 or four inches after putting metal spacer and 5 jars in. When I went to open the pc this afternoon 3 out of the 5 jars had cracked along the bottom and the bottom fell off when I tapped them. The grain is also clinging to itself very strongly which tells me I had to much water in the mix. But why the broken jars. They were off the bottom due the spacer that came with the pc. I'm really not having any luck figuring out how to prepare grain jars, no matter how I follow direction or modify.Any enlightenment as to what I did wrong is appreciated.

NOS


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Offlinetheknighterrant
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Re: Please tell me what I did wrong.(pic) [Re: NOS4A2]
    #3638363 - 01/17/05 12:29 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

how full did you pack the jars. too full and the expanding grain will crack the jars.
don't know if this is the reason for catastophic jar failure, but it is a possibility.


tke


--------------------
The oldest and strongest emotion of man is fear. The oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown.
--H.P. Lovecraft

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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Please tell me what I did wrong.(pic) [Re: NOS4A2]
    #3638376 - 01/17/05 12:32 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Has the water completely evaporated?


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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: Please tell me what I did wrong.(pic) [Re: NOS4A2]
    #3638384 - 01/17/05 12:35 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I do not know what you did wrong. It SEEMS to me that you had many lids/tyvek which could have made it hard for steam to escape.
Also nowadays I use a small kitchen towel on the bottom of the PC to prevent overheating in that area.

You shouldnt add extra water after soaking either, IMHO. Better to simmer half an hour after 12 Hours soak. Rinse, drain. Load jars, PC.

I only use on metal lid, with 1/3 inch hole, with polyfill. I soak and sometimes simmer, I never add extra water and never had any cracked jar.


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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: Please tell me what I did wrong.(pic) [Re: Anno]
    #3638394 - 01/17/05 12:38 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Anno do yo umean that wehn the water is gone it allows the remaining stuff to get much hotter then boiling temps which may have been causing teh cracked jars?

NOS at which PSI did you PC them?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1M
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Re: Please tell me what I did wrong.(pic) [Re: NOS4A2]
    #3638401 - 01/17/05 12:39 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

NOS4A2 said:
Pc'd 5 pints of WBS last night for an hour. I soaked for 12 hr, then I loaded 6g of seed to 3g of water per jar.





firtly, never add the extra water to the substrate, the soaking was enough
the extra water is forced into the kernels and as you can see, half the
substrate is mush, this may be the reason for the breaking, the crack
running up the side suggests the expansion was outward as opposed to
upward given that the jar is at 3/4 full.

next time, try simply soaking the grains overnight, drain for 45 minutes and
fill the jars 3/4 full, PC for 90 minutes and allow them to cool for several hours


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OfflineSoK
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Re: Please tell me what I did wrong.(pic) [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #3638418 - 01/17/05 12:43 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

my procedure was: soak for 18hrs, rinse and drain well, load about 3/4 full (pint jars) w/ no extra water added to jars & PC @ 10psi for hour n a half and hopefully everything will work w/ them when i noc. looks like your jars may have had both too much wbs in them combined w/ lots of water being forced into the grain through PCing which popped your jar


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Please tell me what I did wrong.(pic) [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #3638429 - 01/17/05 12:45 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomFriend said:
Anno do yo umean that wehn the water is gone it allows the remaining stuff to get much hotter then boiling temps which may have been causing teh cracked jars?




Yes.


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InvisibleNOS4A2
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Re: Please tell me what I did wrong.(pic) [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #3638436 - 01/17/05 12:47 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Ok i was trying to moisturize durring the pc stage like someone told me I could hoping for a better result. They told be a 2 to 1 ratio would work. I just opened the other two and the grain doesn't seem wet at all but it doesn't look dry either just kinda bigger, if you know what i mean. I only had the jars filled just under 1/2 way so this wouldn't happen. But I guess my filter modification maybe wasn't as free flowing as I had hoped.I usually soak and simmer then pc, but lately it has been giving me similar results.


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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: Please tell me what I did wrong.(pic) [Re: Anno]
    #3638444 - 01/17/05 12:48 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

keey, the other way around of what I thought first, that it was packed so bad and so "lidded" that it exploded by that.
But seeing the way it cracked it might be that "bottomheat" probably did it.....


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InvisiblePrisoner#1M
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Re: Please tell me what I did wrong.(pic) [Re: NOS4A2]
    #3638532 - 01/17/05 01:11 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

NOS4A2 said:
Ok i was trying to moisturize durring the pc stage like someone told me I could hoping for a better result. They told be a 2 to 1 ratio would work.




I've tried all sorts of methods, that one included but it was doe without an
initial presoak.. it failed because the bottom grains were overly wet and the
top was too dry...

as anno suggested, if the PC dries out it can also lead to breakage, the glass
that canning jars are made from are soda lime glass, they dont stand up to the
thermal expansion very well, judging from the look of the grains I believe you
still had water in the PC after you were finished PCing them


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InvisibleNOS4A2
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Re: Please tell me what I did wrong.(pic) [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #3638581 - 01/17/05 01:25 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Yup, you're very observant Prisoner. I just wish I could get a couple good jars going. I'm using Miejer bird food and I think it's not the best. I strain out everthing that floats and usually have a mixture of about 75% red millet and 25% white. I figure the floaters have nothing to add to the nutrient value. I'm also thinking this cheap small Pc I got from Wal-mart is my greatest source of failure! It worked great for a while but it just keeps getting less predictable. There's no guage to tell what pressure you're at and I just go by ear. I won a 22qt presto with a guage on Ebay, and I hope to get more luck from it.
Perhaps your right. I can't judge the water content because water probably infiltrated the jars after they cracked. However, the ones that didn't break looked O.K. except I had to break the grain up with a knife. Oh well, better luck next time.
NOS4A2


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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: Please tell me what I did wrong.(pic) [Re: NOS4A2]
    #3638594 - 01/17/05 01:28 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Maybe I told you after you posted that you did not want to soak that you could also try to PC it twice. Once loose for hydration, and once loaded in the jars for sterilisation.
Or do I mix things up now?


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InvisibleNOS4A2
Sh!tApple

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Re: Please tell me what I did wrong.(pic) [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #3638606 - 01/17/05 01:31 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I'm pretty sure it wasn't you Friend. Crazy that I'm getting help from you now, is it not? :smile: You're doing great by the way. I've been following your posts. GL
NOS


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CulturingTech


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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: Please tell me what I did wrong.(pic) [Re: NOS4A2]
    #3638672 - 01/17/05 01:48 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

NOS I made fast career! :laugh: Last week someone mentioned me in the row with "ShroomGod Agar" and "CaseMaster Scatmanrav"! :lol:

That was too much lol my ego exploded, but I made some progress yes... :thumbup:


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InvisibleNOS4A2
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Re: Please tell me what I did wrong.(pic) [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #3638692 - 01/17/05 01:56 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I've got one more Question:
Does it matter how far up the side of the jar the water reaches. Could I fill the pc just under the lids and be ok. Or does this have a negative impact on the grain in the jars. Because why not just fill er up so I don't have to worry about a overheat like I had a few days ago.

And Friend, you have a good attitude for this forum which I think gets you very far. I, however, haven't made too many friends here. I guess I'm a bit too forward at times, which is my undoing.

GL all
NOS


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CulturingTech


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InvisiblePrisoner#1M
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Re: Please tell me what I did wrong.(pic) [Re: NOS4A2]
    #3638698 - 01/17/05 01:58 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

NOS4A2 said:
Yup, you're very observant Prisoner. I just wish I could get a couple good jars going. I'm using Miejer bird food and I think it's not the best. I strain out everthing that floats and usually have a mixture of about 75% red millet and 25% white. I figure the floaters have nothing to add to the nutrient value.




try this, soak your bird seed in a pot overnight, add 1 teaspoon of gypsum,
pulverized, ground or powdered while it's soaking (gypsum is sheet rock/wall board, you can pick up scraps at home depot) after the soak, drain it for about 45 minutes in soem sort of mesh strainer... window screen works the well, shake it a little to expose more wet kernels.


load your jars and PC as normal, dont worry about scooping anything out, its not gonna hurt anything. when you're done you should have perfect WBS, it wont be too wet or dry and it will break apart easily id you want to spawn it.







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InvisibleNOS4A2
Sh!tApple

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Re: Please tell me what I did wrong.(pic) [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #3638717 - 01/17/05 02:04 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

So you're advising me not to boil at all? Just right into the jars after a nights' soak? Just clarifying.

NOS


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Invisiblemetasin
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Re: Please tell me what I did wrong.(pic) [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #3638848 - 01/17/05 02:27 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
load your jars and PC as normal,





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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Please tell me what I did wrong.(pic) [Re: NOS4A2]
    #3639160 - 01/17/05 03:29 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

NOS4A2 said:
I've got one more Question:
Does it matter how far up the side of the jar the water reaches. Could I fill the pc just under the lids and be ok. Or does this have a negative impact on the grain in the jars. Because why not just fill er up so I don't have to worry about a overheat like I had a few days ago.

And Friend, you have a good attitude for this forum which I think gets you very far. I, however, haven't made too many friends here. I guess I'm a bit too forward at times, which is my undoing.

GL all
NOS




Filling it up wouldnt solve what happened since there was still water left in the PC. Filling it up could cause 2 problems, either boiling water over the jars sitting on the tyvek and soaking through and it will definatly take a long assed time to heat up.

WBS doesnt need a simmer and I think adding gypsum to the water for the soak helps hydrate it a bit. Myself, I always soak and simmer but I use about 75% rye mixed with 25% WBS. Definatly dont want to add water to grain jars prior to PCing if you soak and/or simmer though.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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