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InvisibleSclorch
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AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction
    #3637572 - 01/17/05 03:14 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Before I get started, I want to acknowledge that there may be some sampling error (though it would be completely unintentional and coincidental).

I've run into many people who are/have been a member of Alcoholics/Narcotics Anonymous. Most have been acquaintences, but some have been good friends. I've also read a good amount of the handbook... and I like alot of what's in there. In general, as a treatment plan (according to the book), I think the program is pretty sound (though I haven't studied it extensively).

However, from what I've seen, AA/NA doesn't actually CURE addiction.
In fact, every single person I've ever met (in any stage of the treatment - which doesn't really end, as it's a way of life) still suffers from addiction.
Sure, they may not drink or use drugs (and that's a GREAT thing - I'm not questioning that), but their addictive personalities are still intact. Therefore, they haven't been CURED at all... their addictions have merely been refocused. The new focus can vary among members, but in every case I've seen it's been something external: religion, marriage, exercise, a hobby, etc.

My point is this: Assuming it is possible to change an addictive personality, wouldn't these people benefit more from an actual cure rather than a redirection of their addictions?

*waits patiently for Markos...*


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OfflineFrog
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Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: Sclorch]
    #3637685 - 01/17/05 04:43 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Sclorch said:
My point is this: Assuming it is possible to change an addictive personality, wouldn't these people benefit more from an actual cure rather than a redirection of their addictions?





From what "actual cure" do you think addicts would benefit? What is the actual cure the would benefit addicts better than NA/AA?

Just curious. I know some addicts myself. I haven't yet heard of a cure.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: Frog]
    #3637779 - 01/17/05 06:25 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

a physical "cure" would do alot more than just stop addiction
a psychological cure i dont think is possible as it is a physical "problem"

addiction is just a chemical reinforcement
you can get it from chemicals ex; alcohol
you can get it naturally without external chemicals

some people are just more prone to satisfy this chemical want


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: Sclorch]
    #3637953 - 01/17/05 08:51 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

> However, from what I've seen, AA/NA doesn't actually CURE addiction.

I don't really think that addiction can be cured. People are either going to be addicts, or they are not. For those that are addicts, it is much better to addicted to something positive, such as religion, marriage, exercise, a hobby, etc than something destructive.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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Invisiblepoke smot!
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Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction *DELETED* [Re: Sclorch]
    #3637955 - 01/17/05 08:51 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

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Invisibleuriahchase
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Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: poke smot!]
    #3638345 - 01/17/05 12:23 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

my dad says that NA is only good for finding new hook-ups


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Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are -Kurt Cobain
       



     
Hotter than the left sink handle.


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Invisiblepoke smot!
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Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction *DELETED* [Re: uriahchase]
    #3638694 - 01/17/05 01:56 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: Frog]
    #3638797 - 01/17/05 02:20 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Frog said:
Quote:

Sclorch said:
My point is this: Assuming it is possible to change an addictive personality, wouldn't these people benefit more from an actual cure rather than a redirection of their addictions?





From what "actual cure" do you think addicts would benefit? What is the actual cure the would benefit addicts better than NA/AA?

Just curious. I know some addicts myself. I haven't yet heard of a cure.



I'm not saying that I know of a cure OR a better treatment plan than A/NA.
I'm just wondering if anyone agrees with me that A/NA is NOT a cure... and that it only treats addiction (via redirection) rather than addressing the cyclical/self-absorbed nature of addictive personalities.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: poke smot!]
    #3638828 - 01/17/05 02:25 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

poke smot! said:
"only" isn't the right word there. Yeah, it's nice to meet new people and hook up with girls but that is not why everyone is there.



Hehe... I know several people who, I think, go primarily for social reasons.
Quote:

IMO people at NA are very compassionate compared to the average person I might run into at, say, walmart.



I think anyone who attempts to understand themselves will be more compassionate than they were before. But as far as comparing A/NA people to the average Joe... from my experience, the A/NA people are a helluva lot more selfish.


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OfflineRandolph_Carter
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Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: Sclorch]
    #3638863 - 01/17/05 02:30 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I don't think one can "cure" an addictive personality short of serious permanant memory loss....it's too deeply ingrained and intertwined with the personality.
And that's ignoring the biochemical pathways taht are generally unique to an addictive personality.

This is also why i think AA is a crock of shit. There is no cure, but it's a word used far too much.


--------------------
"..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street."  Gibson


Nuke baby seals for Jesus!

(This has been a +1 production.)


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OfflineGomp
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Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: Sclorch]
    #3638937 - 01/17/05 02:41 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

an actual cure; stop doing it.

Addiction is like habit, one makes either.


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Disclaimer!?


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: Gomp]
    #3639937 - 01/17/05 06:42 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

anyone heard about ibogaine, from a plant (i think) called iboga, and it's a hallucinogen which makes you have a crazy DMT-esque visual trip during which you meet various entities, and they tell you about your addictions and at the end you're not addicted to whatever it was anymore because you can now see your addiction so clearly? yeah I know, I don't believe it either, but some people swear by their iboga experiences.

iboga: the magic drug that cures addictions. if only


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3639998 - 01/17/05 06:55 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, I have heard of it, and it appears to be the real deal. Following an ibogaine session, patients almost always lose their dependency on substances with NO WITHDRAWAL symptoms!

Of course the U.S. government quickly moved to have it scheduled. This after conferring with their pharmaceutical paymasters.

Can't have safe and natural (read non synthetic/marketable) cures readily available now can we?


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3641424 - 01/18/05 12:14 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Actually Zeke, I forgot about that. Was it the Russians who were having so much success with ibogaine?


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinecrazyman
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Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: Randolph_Carter]
    #3641555 - 01/18/05 12:41 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I don't think one can "cure" an addictive personality short of serious permanant memory loss....it's too deeply ingrained and intertwined with the personality.
And that's ignoring the biochemical pathways taht are generally unique to an addictive personality.

This is also why i think AA is a crock of shit. There is no cure, but it's a word used far too much.





AA has NEVER stated that they or anyone/thing else has a "CURE" for alcholism/addiction... What they offer is a spiritual, (not religious), way of life that can lead to a phychic change or spiritual awakening, or personality change sufficient to bring about r-e-c-o-v-e-r-y, not a cure. Everyone in life has but a daily reprieve. And some of us utilize that reprieve contingent on a spiritual basis of dvelopement......Enter AA/NA as some of the most chronic abusers of us need in order to not only survive, but LIVE life.


--------------------
I want to live in Northern Exposure. Ed Chigliak would be my pal.



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Offlinecrazyman
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Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: crazyman]
    #3645680 - 01/18/05 10:49 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I'm an alcoholic. Yeaaaaah! :cheers:


--------------------
I want to live in Northern Exposure. Ed Chigliak would be my pal.



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InvisibleDark_Star
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Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: Sclorch]
    #3645809 - 01/18/05 11:09 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I don't buy into that christian bullshit....they're too hypocritical, I believe in God and Jesus....but not the version the various christian church pushes, that's the opposite of what it'a all about. Anyway, I didn't mean to vent about that, i'm posting to say that LSD mushrooms and MDMA, but mainly LSD cured me of my addictions, more than once.


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: Sclorch]
    #3647384 - 01/19/05 10:02 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

LSD saved me from an early 80's ounce a week cocaine/1/4oz a week heroin habit. I AM cured of ANY desire for cocaine or any stimulant beyond tea. I can be around it and only feel disgust ,no craving or even the stray "maybe just a taste" thoughts. Of course I did not attend any treatment facility(Schick was still electrocuting smokers back then) I made a conscious decision to stop folowing a STRONG recomendation by my psyche during an LSD experience. Treatment works for some but becomes a crutch for many of those.
Just my experience.
WR :wexican:


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To old for this place


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction [Re: whiterasta]
    #3648472 - 01/19/05 03:43 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

whiterasta said:
LSD saved me from an early 80's ounce a week cocaine/1/4oz a week heroin habit. I AM cured of ANY desire for cocaine or any stimulant beyond tea. I can be around it and only feel disgust ,no craving or even the stray "maybe just a taste" thoughts. Of course I did not attend any treatment facility(Schick was still electrocuting smokers back then) I made a conscious decision to stop folowing a STRONG recomendation by my psyche during an LSD experience. Treatment works for some but becomes a crutch for many of those.
Just my experience.
WR :wexican:




This is exactly what I was looking for.
I've seen people break addictions.  I've broken addictions.  I know it can be done.  I also will concede that A/NA might help some people actually change their addictive personalities (even if I have yet to see it), but by-and-large I think A/NA serves only to redirect addiction.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Invisiblepoke smot!
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Re: AA/NA's "Cure" for Addiction *DELETED* [Re: Dark_Star]
    #3648632 - 01/19/05 04:16 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

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