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Invisiblewhiterasta
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I think therefor I am...but what if I only imagine I think?
    #3632333 - 01/15/05 08:16 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

So I imagine this place called a body and create this thing called thought because it is in my hardware to do so.What should I do with it now? What if I am wrong :blush:
WR :wexican:


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Re: I think therefor I am...but what if I only imagine I think? [Re: whiterasta]
    #3632516 - 01/15/05 08:59 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

a lot of people only imagine they're thinking.  :wink:


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OfflineGomp
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Re: I think therefor I am...but what if I only imagine I think? [Re: whiterasta]
    #3632545 - 01/15/05 09:06 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I heard from whom I do not member, if is no word.
the world as if, is.
the world is unchanged changes.
like yours body, this world is 'mine'.
what only I imagine, I think.
our imagination, however, is my imagination as well. In thinking we feel as One.

To do whit this body 'I' restless, rest in.
changing to higher vibrations, the hardware double, like the rise-grains doubling in each square of the chess board, ones body, is receiving and sending the divinest of light. through us and in us, around us we shine, as heaven on earth, like dreams so profound. Reflecting each-other, we re-member.

Keep in mind what you feel in heart, the brain is endless.

Imagine a body, of this state and dreams.
we are then intent of the purest. our potential revealed in the dream of the real, imagination as tool in an body now two in one as one can be two. and so let it flow on, for numbers linear, so to, stands alone.



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Edited by Gomp (01/15/05 09:07 PM)


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InvisiblePaou
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Re: I think therefor I am...but what if I only imagine I think? [Re: whiterasta]
    #3632554 - 01/15/05 09:08 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

"I think therefore I am" assumes that there is an "I" to think. This is circular logic. It assumes its own conclusion as its premise.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: I think therefor I am...but what if I only imagine I think? [Re: Paou]
    #3632562 - 01/15/05 09:10 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

thinking think!
:confused: :heart:


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Offlineskystone
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Re: I think therefor I am...but what if I only imagine I think? [Re: Gomp]
    #3632589 - 01/15/05 09:14 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Gomp, sorry to ask, but are you talking like that on purpuse?
Or are you having problems with english?

And please don't answer me in riddles and yoda-talk :smile:


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"..and suddenly it began to rain"


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: I think therefor I am...but what if I only imagine I think? [Re: skystone]
    #3632598 - 01/15/05 09:16 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

We :heart: Gomp


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Offlineskystone
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Re: I think therefor I am...but what if I only imagine I think? [Re: shroomydan]
    #3632610 - 01/15/05 09:18 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Well I love everyone including Gomp, specially since he has the baby avatar, I'm just currious, I'm new to this forum, I don't know you guys at all, so I don't know what's the story behind Gomp.


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"..and suddenly it began to rain"


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: I think therefor I am...but what if I only imagine I think? [Re: whiterasta]
    #3632645 - 01/15/05 09:29 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

So I imagine this place called a body and create this thing called thought because it is in my hardware to do so.What should I do with it now? What if I am wrong
WR




If you were wrong, then you would have to exist to be wrong. This is not a circular argument, it is a clear and distinct thought.

When Descartes formulated the "Cogito ergo sum" trans "I think therefore I am", the only thing which he was asserting to be absolutely true was that he existed as a "thinking thing", not necessarily a bodily thing extended in space.

From an online encyclopedia:

Quote:

Cogito ergo sum
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Ren? Descartes (1596-1650)The Latin phrase cogito ergo sum ("I think, therefore I am") is possibly the single best-known philosophical statement and is attributed to Ren? Descartes. Cogito ergo sum is a translation of Descartes' original French statement, Je pense, donc, je suis.

The argument that is usually summarized as "cogito ergo sum" appears first in Descartes' Meditations on First Philosophy, where he attempts to build an entire philosophical system with no prior assumptions. He reasons that since all his beliefs have been derived from potentially misleading sense data or potentially fallacious logic, he can trust nothing that he has hitherto taken to be true. That is to say, he decides to systematically doubt all that could conceivably be doubted. He discovers the one thing that he cannot doubt is his own existence. After all, he claims, something nonexistent is incapable even of the act of doubting. Thus the formulation, "I think, therefore I am", was the starting point of his philosophy.

Although the ideas expressed in cogito ergo sum are most commonly associated with Descartes, they were present in many of his antecedents, especially Saint Augustine in De Civitate Dei (books XI, 26) who makes this argument, and anticipates modern refutations of it. See Principia Philosophiae, ?7: "Ac proinde haec cognitio, ego cogito, ergo sum, est omnium prima et certissima etc."



http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start..._sum&e=8092


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OfflineGomp
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Re: I think therefor I am...but what if I only imagine I think? [Re: skystone]
    #3634425 - 01/16/05 09:58 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I have no problems whit English.
And i do not write like that on purpose, any more than i do.
That post even, I don't get much from, just same old, but i put it out there on purpose, maybe someone could grasp it.

rephrase the question, when you did not get a answer?
:confused:

PS: I was exceedingly tired, (yay!!) last night, and my vision was all fussy, so this post, in this thread, i could have spent an half hour making "more and less" comprehensible, but i went to bed after typing it.
It could be considered a 'sketch' of what it could be.
I guess, when I type, like this, I still think I'm a part of us, 'you' the reader, tell me what to tell you. might happen subconscious, either way, I can only type, I can not 'give an answer', could I?
he he
:confused: :thumbup: :heart:


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OfflineDroz
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Re: I think therefor I am...but what if I only imagine I think? [Re: Gomp]
    #3634469 - 01/16/05 10:56 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Let your thoughts flow.


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Evolution of Time.


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Offlineskystone
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Re: I think therefor I am...but what if I only imagine I think? [Re: Gomp]
    #3634477 - 01/16/05 11:06 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Well its not that your thoughts are unclear, they are clear,
the meaning and the message are clear to me.
It's just that sometimes you are using some unusual sentance structure.

P.S. One more question, just to get to know you better..

the "unknown :p" thing..

Are those really quotes of some unknown people or are those your words?


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OfflineGomp
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Re: I think therefor I am...but what if I only imagine I think? [Re: skystone]
    #3634561 - 01/16/05 12:09 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

""Are those really quotes of some unknown people or are those your words?""


when I know thy are quotes of some unknown people, I write -Unknown, whit out the :P . 

I guess when i type "-Unknown :P"
Something and someone wrote it, which i guess you could then say is me. but this part of me, is unknown to me. ha-ha really good question. as i got no 'final' answers.  :P 


:heart:


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Edited by Gomp (01/16/05 12:11 PM)


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InvisiblePaou
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Re: I think therefor I am...but what if I only imagine I think? [Re: shroomydan]
    #3634907 - 01/16/05 02:34 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

shroomydan said:
If you were wrong, then you would have to exist to be wrong.



Incorrect. Only the statement would have to exist. The existence of the statement or thought is self-apparent, but one's own existence is not. A revised version of "I think therefore I am" should say "Thoughts exist."


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: I think therefor I am...but what if I only imagine I think? [Re: Paou]
    #3634924 - 01/16/05 02:41 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

There is a critique of Descartes which says there could be a thought thinking itself. But that doesn't make any sense to me.

I think most would agree that thoughts require a thinker.


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: I think therefor I am...but what if I only imagine I think? [Re: whiterasta]
    #3634927 - 01/16/05 02:41 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

If you stop thinking, do you stop existing? Their is alot of meaning in this phrase that my yoga instructor gave to me. It helps to make the concept of "self as pure awareness" a bit more concrete.


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InvisiblePaou
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Re: I think therefor I am...but what if I only imagine I think? [Re: shroomydan]
    #3634942 - 01/16/05 02:47 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

shroomydan said:
There is a critique of Descartes which says there could be a thought thinking itself. But that doesn't make any sense to me.

I think most would agree that thoughts require a thinker.



Why? Matter can neither be created nor destroyed, nor can energy, so why couldn't the same thing be said of thought? Not all things require a creator. Even if you believe in God as the ultimate creator, who created God?


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: I think therefor I am...but what if I only imagine I think? [Re: Paou]
    #3634964 - 01/16/05 02:52 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Incorrect. Only the statement would have to exist. The existence of the statement or thought is self-apparent, but one's own existence is not. A revised version of "I think therefore I am" should say "Thoughts exist."

Agreed.
The notion of a seperate thinker, of an "I" distinct from the experience, comes from memory and from the rapidity with which thought changes. It is like a whirling of a burning stick to give the illusion of a continuous circle of fire. If you imagine that memory is a direct knowledge of the past rather than a present experience, you get the illusion of knowing the past and the present at the same time. This suggests that there is something in you distinct from both the past and the present experiences. You reason, "I know this present experience, and it is different from that past experience. If I can compare the two, and notice that experience has changed, I must be something constant and apart."
But, as a matter of fact, you cannot compare this present experience with a past experience. You can only compare it with a memory of the past, which is a part of the present experience. When you see clearly that memory is a form of present experience, it will be obvious that trying to seperate yourself from this experience is as impossible as trying to make your teeth bite themselves. There is simply experience. There is not something or someone experiencing experience! You do not feel feelings, think thoughts, or sense sensations any more than you hear hearing, see sight, or smell smelling.



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InvisibleNariusFractal
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Re: I think therefor I am...but what if I only imagine I think? [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3635729 - 01/16/05 07:08 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

"I imagine, therefore I am."


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You are the microcosm of the macrocosm.


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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