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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Christian website on evolution
    #3626359 - 01/14/05 01:57 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

web page

Evolution teaches that every living thing has a "common ancestor", and that non-living matter produced living matter... Evolution teaches that the earth is around 4.5 billion years old, and that the universe may be 16 billion years old or older. A very, very, very old earth is taught. Evolution also teaches that the "everything is getting better", and that people are getting smarter and smarter, in direct contrast to the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, Entropy.

Hard to even start a discussion when the ignorance is so overwhelming as to get two major points wrong in one short paragraph.

Education, education, education...and a pinch of logic might help.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Christian website on evolution [Re: Swami]
    #3626371 - 01/14/05 01:59 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Most Christians are pretty ignorant, and I say that as a Christian. Not all Christians are like that though.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Christian website on evolution [Re: z@z.com]
    #3626388 - 01/14/05 02:02 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

One person making a mistake or two may be understandable, but a website that hosts hundreds of posts everyday and not one thought to correct this? Very scary to this reader.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 13,673
Loc: Smokey Mtns. TN Flag
Last seen: 5 months, 8 days
Re: Christian website on evolution [Re: Swami]
    #3626412 - 01/14/05 02:06 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The majority of America doesnt know who won the civil war.
People are stupid and will continue to hold up to their narrow minded beliefs.

Ignorance is bliss though.


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OfflineInnerBeing
Yakuza Boss

Registered: 12/07/04
Posts: 413
Loc: Chinatown
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: Christian website on evolution [Re: Swami]
    #3626413 - 01/14/05 02:06 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Swami is back?
Well, I don't know who you are but your leaving sure did raise a ruckus around here. Welcome back man.


--------------------
Kiss the ring Bitch!



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OfflineMrBump
Third prize is you're fired
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 4,254
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Re: Christian website on evolution [Re: Swami]
    #3626416 - 01/14/05 02:06 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

please explain whats wrong with their paragraph on evolution?

is it the something from nothing statemnet that bothers you?


--------------------
If it weren't for the bloody corpses, I wouldn't have any corpses at all.

There are two ways to get to the top of an oak tree: start climbing or sit on an acorn.

Are you a carrot, an egg, or a coffee bean?


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OfflineInnerBeing
Yakuza Boss

Registered: 12/07/04
Posts: 413
Loc: Chinatown
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: Christian website on evolution [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #3626421 - 01/14/05 02:07 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Everybody knows that America won the Civl War.


--------------------
Kiss the ring Bitch!



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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Christian website on evolution [Re: InnerBeing]
    #3626441 - 01/14/05 02:12 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Well, I don't know who you are but your leaving sure did raise a ruckus around here. Welcome back man.

Thank you. The ruckus was created by fabrications, bias and unequal and "special" application of the by-laws by the mods and admins. I was banned for "Swami-baiting". They made a special "rule" after-the-fact. The fair-minded intelligentsia here did not appreciate that and hence the ruckus.

*Swami dons custom-made mod-proof kevlar suit*


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineInnerBeing
Yakuza Boss

Registered: 12/07/04
Posts: 413
Loc: Chinatown
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: Christian website on evolution [Re: Swami]
    #3626454 - 01/14/05 02:14 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Like I said, I do not know who you are but I felt threatened by your banning. I thought we were afforded the liberties of free speech on this messageboard but I was shown that I am wrong. Anyhow, sorry for bashing your thread with an offtopic post.


--------------------
Kiss the ring Bitch!



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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Christian website on evolution [Re: MrBump]
    #3626478 - 01/14/05 02:17 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

thecornking said:
please explain whats wrong with their paragraph on evolution?




How about you tell us what's correct about that paragraph?


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Christian website on evolution [Re: MrBump]
    #3626629 - 01/14/05 02:56 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

thecornking said:
please explain whats wrong with their paragraph on evolution?




I don't really see much wrong with that statement, but I see a lot wrong on the site.

EDIT: BTW I don't really care how God created the earth, but I believe that he did. Was it a literal 6 days? Is the earth 6000 years old or 45 billion? I don't really think it matters. I know God could have done it in 6 literal days and that is the important thing as far as I am concerned. You must also consider that God had the power to create things with the appearance of age. This is clearly shown when Jesus changed water into wine. (assuming you believe that of course)


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


Edited by z@z.com (01/14/05 02:59 AM)


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OfflineFrog
Warrior
Female User Gallery

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
Re: Christian website on evolution [Re: Swami]
    #3626918 - 01/14/05 03:59 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
web page

Evolution teaches that every living thing has a "common ancestor", and that non-living matter produced living matter... Evolution teaches that the earth is around 4.5 billion years old, and that the universe may be 16 billion years old or older. A very, very, very old earth is taught. Evolution also teaches that the "everything is getting better", and that people are getting smarter and smarter, in direct contrast to the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, Entropy.

Hard to even start a discussion when the ignorance is so overwhelming as to get two major points wrong in one short paragraph.

Education, education, education...and a pinch of logic might help.




If you go to that web page, you will find that there are different types of Christians with different types of beliefs in this area. Not just the one quoted by Swami.

And there are lots of ignorant people in this world. Not just Christians.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
Male User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 65,322
Loc: 9th Dimension Flag
Re: Christian website on evolution [Re: Frog]
    #3626932 - 01/14/05 04:01 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Educate the masses.


--------------------


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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
Re: Christian website on evolution [Re: Swami]
    #3627755 - 01/14/05 12:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Just taking a shot at this....

Quote:

Evolution teaches that every living thing has a "common ancestor"



Isn't that what Darwin hypothesized as well?

Quote:

and that non-living matter produced living matter...



What else could it be? That living matter produced the first living matter? That's nonsense

Quote:

Evolution teaches that the earth is around 4.5 billion years old, and that the universe may be 16 billion years old or older.



Not far, its actually theorized to be 5 billion and 15 billion

Quote:

Evolution also teaches that the "everything is getting better", and that people are getting smarter and smarter



Well sure why not? Wouldn't you agree that say every 100 years humans in general know alot more compared to the last century?

Quote:

in direct contrast to the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, Entropy.




I can't make out the relation between the two...


--------------------


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InvisiblePaou
Seeker

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 376
Loc: Transcendence
Re: Christian website on evolution [Re: exclusive58]
    #3627797 - 01/14/05 12:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
Quote:

Evolution teaches that every living thing has a "common ancestor"



Isn't that what Darwin hypothesized as well?



I'm not so sure about that. It could be, but life also could have come about separately in several places. Considering it would be microscopic, single-celled organisms, it doesn't seem too much of a stretch to think they could have came about simultaneously in many locations.

Quote:

Quote:

Evolution also teaches that the "everything is getting better", and that people are getting smarter and smarter



Well sure why not? Wouldn't you agree that say every 100 years humans in general know alot more compared to the last century?



"Better" assumes objective value, which is something which cannot be proven. Evolution teaches that life is changing, but change doesn't mean getting better. Also, intelligence is not about how much you know, but rather about how well you can figure things out.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 9 months, 8 days
Re: Christian website on evolution [Re: Paou]
    #3628624 - 01/14/05 03:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Evolution teaches that every living thing has a "common ancestor"

Not every theory of evolution claims that every living thing came from one single ancestor. Most talk about a 'soup' that spawned many different types of organisms which were shaped through natural selection.

that non-living matter produced living matter...

What is living matter? I have yet to see a living atom...

Evolution teaches that the earth is around 4.5 billion years old, and that the universe may be 16 billion years old or older.

Actually, evolution doesn't teach this. The science used to determine these ages is very exact, very precise, and has been shown to be true through various independent means and methods. If the earth was only created 10 years ago, it was created to appear as if it were 4.5 billion years old.

A very, very, very old earth is taught.

In terms of astronomical ages, the earth is very, very, very young, not very, very, very old. Age is a very, very, very subjective concept.

Evolution also teaches that the "everything is getting better"

No it doesn't. Evolution teaches that modern day organisms evolved from different 'lower' organisms as directed by natural selection. Getting better has absolutely nothing to do with it. In fact, many branches of evolution have been pruned by nature because they yielded a poorer candidate for survival rather than a better one.

and that people are getting smarter and smarter

Again, this is a false understanding of the theory. If being smarter helps with the survival of a species, then yes, evolution through natural selection should encourage a species to become smarter. I fail to see how being smarter helps one human to reproduce where a not-so-smart person has trouble reproducing. My observations would be the opposite; the smarter people tend to have fewer children while the less educated (less intelligent?) seem to have more children.

in direct contrast to the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, Entropy.

What exactly does Thermodynamics have to do with the theory of evolution. The definition of entropy is: a measure of the amount of energy in a system that is no longer available for doing work; entropy increases as matter and energy in the universe degrade to an ultimate state of inert uniformity. The 2nd law of thermodynamics applies to heat and energy in the universe, not to randomness versus uniformity within any given system.


All this being said, there are a few 'flaws' with evolution as well:

1) we have never seen a living 'thing' spontaneously create itself. Not to say it can't happen, but we haven't seen it. In fact, we have been unable to create any 'living' organism from completly inert matter. There is currently research being done trying to do just this, create a living thing atom by atom, but so far it has been unsuccessful (at least when I researched it last).

2) we have never seen a species evolve into another species. We have observed the effects of natural selection within a species, but so far we have not seen anything new burst into being. Again, this isn't saying that it cannot happen, only that we have not observed it.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Christian website on evolution [Re: Frog]
    #3628638 - 01/14/05 03:40 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

> And there are lots of ignorant people in this world. Not just Christians.

Yes, but it seems to be only the Christians (and the followers of Islam) that seem to want to force the rest of the world to follow their beliefs.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisiblePaou
Seeker

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 376
Loc: Transcendence
Re: Christian website on evolution [Re: Seuss]
    #3628646 - 01/14/05 03:43 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
2) we have never seen a species evolve into another species. We have observed the effects of natural selection within a species, but so far we have not seen anything new burst into being. Again, this isn't saying that it cannot happen, only that we have not observed it.



I'm not so sure about this. I don't have a source on this, so I could be wrong, but I think I remember hearing somewhere that macroevolution had been observed in bacteria in a lab setting.


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OfflineAlan Stone
Corpus

Registered: 11/23/02
Posts: 986
Loc: Ten feet up
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: Christian website on evolution [Re: Seuss]
    #3629387 - 01/14/05 07:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The 2nd law of thermodynamics applies to heat and energy in the universe, not to randomness versus uniformity within any given system.



As more information to allow survival gets incoded, entropy decreases, doesn't it?
Evolution doesn't oppose the laws of thermodynamics, life itself does.


--------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
Re: Christian website on evolution [Re: Paou]
    #3629469 - 01/14/05 07:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

"Evolution also teaches that the "everything is getting better"
"Better" assumes objective value, which is something which cannot be proven. Evolution teaches that life is changing, but change doesn't mean getting better. Also, intelligence is not about how much you know, but rather about how well you can figure things out.




Wouldn't you consider it better that today we live longer than a century or ten ago? Isn't it better that a lot less people died in all the wars, massacres, slaughters and oppressions of the 20th century (total: 4126 million deaths) than in the 19th (total: 4330 million deaths) or before that?


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