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OfflineFungus_Farmer
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Does steam sterilization add to water content?
    #3623540 - 01/13/05 03:43 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I've read the PF tek and 3 of its variations thoroughly, and this is one of the questions I have. The original PF tek advises to leave jar lids loose, cover with foil, and boil for an hour, allowing steam to penetrate the jar. If steam penetrates the jar, wouldn't it condense on cooling and add to the water content? Also, since the jar eventually reaches boiling temperature, wouldn't some of the water boil off? I'm confused.


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Invisibleohmatic
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Re: Does steam sterilization add to water content? [Re: Fungus_Farmer]
    #3623547 - 01/13/05 03:46 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

actually how should it condense and COOL - when you steam it
the content of the pot will be heated to steam temperature
within a couple minutes aswell.

and it actually doesnt fuck ur water content,
it has got a erason why the tek is about steaming.

and how should water boil off, all the water is in the verm/brf mix
and you dont have standing water in the glass / jar.

i advise u to re-read THIS pftek guide here,
since its well illustrated and explained.

http://www.fungifun.org/pf/pf_en.htm
peace ohm :mushroom2:


--------------------
:penis: MONOTUB tek :sun: HEATBOMB tek :penis:

RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !


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OfflineFungus_Farmer
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Re: Does steam sterilization add to water content? [Re: ohmatic]
    #3623573 - 01/13/05 03:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I appreciate the reply but I have already read that tek along with three others in the the Basic Cultivation section, and no one really goes into detail on how this process actually works. Yes I know, heat kills germs, but is it the heat from the steam actually infiltrating the substrate or just heat conducted through the glass? I need a more technical explanation of how this process actually works, and a more technical explanation to my original question. I'm a technical person so ambiguous replies don't really help me out much.


--------------------
Excerpt from one of my textbooks:
Therefore, between a then and its matching else, there cannot be an if statement without an else. Statements must be distinguished between those that are matched and those that are unmatched, where unmatched statements are else-less ifs and all other statements are matched.
I wonder if that would make more sense if I was tripping when I read it.


Edited by New_Shroomer81 (01/13/05 03:54 PM)


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Invisibleohmatic
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Re: Does steam sterilization add to water content? [Re: Fungus_Farmer]
    #3623590 - 01/13/05 03:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

the steam is what heats up the jar and its content.

follow the guide from the link i provided and steam the jars
for 2 hours,
you should be fine then.
peace ohm :mushroom2:


--------------------
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RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !


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OfflineFungus_Farmer
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Re: Does steam sterilization add to water content? [Re: ohmatic]
    #3623637 - 01/13/05 04:09 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

This isn't really helping. Yes, I know steam heats the jars. Yes, I'm going to steam my jars. The question is, if steam enters the jars, and the jars are allowed to cool off later on (causing the steam to condense back to liquid,) how would that not add to the water content? None of the techs deal with this question. The other part of my original question was if the jar and all its contents (including the water that's absorbed into the verm) gets up to 212 Fahrenheit, what's to keep that water from vaporizing to steam and escaping? Even the original PF tek mentions that steaming too long can dry out the substrate, but it only offhandedly mentions it and offers no suggestions for diagnosing overdry substrate other than stunted colonization. I need someone either with a physics background or someone who actually understands my question and is willing to take the time to answer it in a technical way. I also wouldn't mind being referred to a FAQ that actually goes into detail on the steaming process, but I've read all the FAQ's on the "Basic Cultivation" page and have found none. They all give directions on how to steam, but none specifically answer my questions. Sorry if I sound pushy, but I'm a very analytical person and when it comes to something like this, I like to know absolutely everything I possibly can know before I get started.


--------------------
Excerpt from one of my textbooks:
Therefore, between a then and its matching else, there cannot be an if statement without an else. Statements must be distinguished between those that are matched and those that are unmatched, where unmatched statements are else-less ifs and all other statements are matched.
I wonder if that would make more sense if I was tripping when I read it.


Edited by New_Shroomer81 (01/13/05 04:12 PM)


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Invisibleohmatic
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Re: Does steam sterilization add to water content? [Re: Fungus_Farmer]
    #3623659 - 01/13/05 04:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

New_Shroomer81 said:
None of the techs deal with this question. 




beacause it is NOTHING to get worried about!
it will not fuck up nothing,
otherwise it would have had a place in the teks ...
-> since they are written to be used by newbs,
believe me its allright.

Quote:

  Sorry if I sound pushy, but I'm a very analytical person and when it comes to something like this, I like to know absolutely everything I possibly can know before I get started.




always a good thing, guess all been said now :wink:
peace ohm :mushroom2:


--------------------
:penis: MONOTUB tek :sun: HEATBOMB tek :penis:

RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !


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InvisibleWoodsCall
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Re: Does steam sterilization add to water content? [Re: Fungus_Farmer]
    #3623667 - 01/13/05 04:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Unlike the pf tek that you read, I have tightened taped and foiled all my jars, then steam sterilized them with a 0% contam rate.

I'm sorry I'm not a physicist, thought I fully understand what you are saying because I qustioned the condensation bit as well when I first started. Therefore I followed a variation of the original PF tek. Sometimes it's more simple than you think.

I commend you on reading up and wanting to know everything, but sometimes all the info gets a little confusing. The best thing to do with mushies is experiment yourself.


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Re: Does steam sterilization add to water content? [Re: WoodsCall]
    #3623716 - 01/13/05 04:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

WoodsCall said:
The best thing to do with mushies is experiment yourself.




AFTER you learned the basics by sticking 101% straight to some guide.

the most common source for failure is that newbies think they can
experiment straight from the beginning, which is a REALLY bad idea.

you need to learn how to walk, before you run..
peace ohm :mushroom2:


--------------------
:penis: MONOTUB tek :sun: HEATBOMB tek :penis:

RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !


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InvisibleWoodsCall
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Re: Does steam sterilization add to water content? [Re: ohmatic]
    #3623735 - 01/13/05 04:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

TRUE :smile: my bad.  I'm just used to experimenting with my science abckground...


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OfflineFungus_Farmer
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Re: Does steam sterilization add to water content? [Re: WoodsCall]
    #3623782 - 01/13/05 04:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Ok, it seems you guys are understanding my question, and telling me there's no reason to worry. That sounds good enough for now then. So to make sure I understand what I've read, let me tell you what I plan on doing and see if it will work. I'm going to mix the substrate according to the PF tek variation cited earlier by ohmatic. First thing I notice is the ratios are different than the original PF Tek. Original PF Tek says 1 to 2 BRF to Vermiculite ratio, and the other tek has a lower BRF/verm ratio. Is one better than the other? The second difference I notice is that the original PF tek adds 60mL of water and mixes, and the other tek just adds water to the verm until it is at field capacity. I like the second variation better, and plan on going with it, is that what I should do? Ok, once I get the substrate good and mixed and in the jars, I'm gonna put the dry verm layer on top. I then am going to loosely screw the lids on, with the needle holes taped, and the inner lid taped to the band (to keep the inner lid off the lip of the jar, so steam can enter.) Next, I wrap a single layer of foil over the tops of the jars to keep water drops from coming in contact with the lid and working their way into the substrate. Then I'm going to set the jars on a layer of rags in a pot, put an inch or two of water in, and heat to a low boil. After putting the lid on, I'm going to boil for an hour. From the several teks I've read, this seems to be the way to go. I know I've asked about five questions in this one reply, but I'm a general pain in the ass when I'm learning something new, I always ask a ton of questions. Anyone mind answering them for me?


--------------------
Excerpt from one of my textbooks:
Therefore, between a then and its matching else, there cannot be an if statement without an else. Statements must be distinguished between those that are matched and those that are unmatched, where unmatched statements are else-less ifs and all other statements are matched.
I wonder if that would make more sense if I was tripping when I read it.


Edited by New_Shroomer81 (01/13/05 04:51 PM)


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Invisibleohmatic
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Re: Does steam sterilization add to water content? [Re: Fungus_Farmer]
    #3623874 - 01/13/05 05:11 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

all you said will work :smile:
stick to the guide i posted and forget about the original,
the one i linked is fool proove.

steam for 2 hrs.
peace ohm :mushroom2:


--------------------
:penis: MONOTUB tek :sun: HEATBOMB tek :penis:

RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !


Edited by ohmatic (01/13/05 05:12 PM)


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OfflineFungus_Farmer
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Re: Does steam sterilization add to water content? [Re: ohmatic]
    #3623903 - 01/13/05 05:18 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Sounds good then. I also plan on tightening the lids and letting the jars sit in my closet for a couple days, then checking for contamination before inoculating, as suggested by the PF tek, that's fine too right?


--------------------
Excerpt from one of my textbooks:
Therefore, between a then and its matching else, there cannot be an if statement without an else. Statements must be distinguished between those that are matched and those that are unmatched, where unmatched statements are else-less ifs and all other statements are matched.
I wonder if that would make more sense if I was tripping when I read it.


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Invisibleohmatic
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Re: Does steam sterilization add to water content? [Re: Fungus_Farmer]
    #3623982 - 01/13/05 05:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

id nock up straight away, cant be bad to try that though.
peace ohm :mushroom2:


--------------------
:penis: MONOTUB tek :sun: HEATBOMB tek :penis:

RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !


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OfflineFungus_Farmer
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Re: Does steam sterilization add to water content? [Re: ohmatic]
    #3624144 - 01/13/05 06:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah the reason I want to make sure all is well and uncontaminated before inoculating is so I don't waste any spore solution, I'd like it if I didn't have to order any more spores.


--------------------
Excerpt from one of my textbooks:
Therefore, between a then and its matching else, there cannot be an if statement without an else. Statements must be distinguished between those that are matched and those that are unmatched, where unmatched statements are else-less ifs and all other statements are matched.
I wonder if that would make more sense if I was tripping when I read it.


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InvisibleWoodsCall
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Re: Does steam sterilization add to water content? [Re: Fungus_Farmer]
    #3624203 - 01/13/05 06:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I beleive the majority of contaminants would come from the inoculation process when it comes to the PF tek and any variations.  Everything must be sterile and exact.  Of course you should try to be just as sterile during the mixing and steaming process.  At least that's what i think cuz if you plan on doing more advanced teks as i would like to, STERILITY is the key. 

Be anal about it :smile: 

From what I've read on this forum, when cultivating with whole grains, that is the time to let jars sit and watch for contams (endospores live in the grains).  I wouldn't worry about doing that with BRF.  From my experience I haven't let the jars sit and have had no contams.  I have had 2 jars that weren't viable tho, but I think it is just that the spores in the syringe may be old...

Anywho, your plan sounds like a winner and good luck.


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OfflineFungus_Farmer
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Re: Does steam sterilization add to water content? [Re: WoodsCall]
    #3624247 - 01/13/05 06:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks for the tips guys. I'm "practicing" sterilizing substrate jars right now by just finding the right stove setting to get a good low boil, and I noticed the pot I'm using lets some steam out. The PF tek says a tight fitting lid is very important. Anyone have experience attempting sterilization with a loose pot lid? I can go buy another pot if I need to, but I'm a tightwad.


--------------------
Excerpt from one of my textbooks:
Therefore, between a then and its matching else, there cannot be an if statement without an else. Statements must be distinguished between those that are matched and those that are unmatched, where unmatched statements are else-less ifs and all other statements are matched.
I wonder if that would make more sense if I was tripping when I read it.


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InvisibleWoodsCall
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Re: Does steam sterilization add to water content? [Re: Fungus_Farmer]
    #3624360 - 01/13/05 06:59 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yes my lid is a bit loose and there is a vent hole on top of the lid. I'm not worried about the steam that escapes from the loose lid, it is minimal (but I wonder if I should be?). I put a piece of electrical tape over the hole to keep any large amounts of steam from escaping.

I use the same pot every time.

In fact, I got this super pressure cooker for Christmas that I still need to use...geez i'm lazy. I'd suggest investing in a good pressure cooker, but not until you decide you are going to stick to this hobby. Good PC's are freaking expensive.


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OfflineLaughingJim
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Re: Does steam sterilization add to water content? [Re: WoodsCall]
    #3627063 - 01/14/05 04:29 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yes, you will add 1 ml of water by steaming, then loose 3 ml after it cools, drawing in dry air from outside.

Not realy sure about that, it is just not worth a thread. (The less you think about this, the less it will bug you!)

Worry about growing, not steaming. (That steam is calculated in the TEK formula, they just didn't mention it because 99.98% of the followers never needed that info to grow.)


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Re: Does steam sterilization add to water content? [Re: LaughingJim]
    #3627110 - 01/14/05 04:39 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

LaughingJim said:(That steam is calculated in the TEK formula, they just didn't mention it because 99.98% of the followers never needed that info to grow.)




that is EXACTLY what i said in my posts above,
its simply not being discussed in the teks since its NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT...
peace ohm :mushroom2:


--------------------
:penis: MONOTUB tek :sun: HEATBOMB tek :penis:

RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !


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Offlineallen70
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Re: Does steam sterilization add to water content? [Re: ohmatic]
    #5620843 - 05/12/06 01:25 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

This post is probably old, but I was wondering the same thing, and I was told that the liquid inside the jars themselves heats and turns into steam that is what sterilizes it and then when it cools the steam turns back into moisture


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Amazon Shop: ½ Pint Jars, Brown Rice Flour, Pressure Cooker, Vermiculite

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