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OfflineEchoVortex
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Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 859
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Search for Iraqi WMD officially ends
    #3621684 - 01/13/05 02:27 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

No surprise I guess that they waited until after the election to admit the obvious.

My favorite line: "Based on what we know today, the president would have taken the same action because this is about protecting the American people," said Press Secretary Scott McClellan.

Reminds me of a segment I saw on the nightly news--two mothers, both of whom had lost sons in Iraq.  One of them them had become vociferously anti-war while the other was still for it.  Her justification?

"He was fighting to protect this country.  If we hadn't gone in there when we did I'd be wearing a burkha right now!"

:rolleyes:

Some people are just too stupid to live, I guess.

----

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20050113/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_iraq_weapons

By KATHERINE PFLEGER SHRADER, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON -  The White House acknowledged Wednesday that its hunt for Iraqi weapons of mass destruction ? a two-year search costing millions of dollars ? has closed down without finding the stockpiles that President Bush (news - web sites) cited as a justification for overthrowing Saddam Hussein (news - web sites). Bush's spokesman said the president had no regrets about invading Iraq (news - web sites). 

"Based on what we know today, the president would have taken the same action because this is about protecting the American people," said Press Secretary Scott McClellan.
 
The Iraq Survey Group ? made up of as many as 1,500 military and intelligence specialists and support staff ? is ending its search of military installations, factories and laboratories where it was thought that equipment and products might be converted to making weapons. 

McClellan said the active search had virtually ended. "There may be a couple, a few people that are focused on that," he said, adding that they would handle any future reports that might come in. 

At a meeting last month, McClellan said Bush thanked the chief U.S. weapons inspector, Charles Duelfer, for his work. A special adviser to the CIA (news - web sites) director, Duelfer will deliver a final edition of a report on Iraq's weapons next month. McClellan said it is not expected to fundamentally differ from the findings of a report last fall. 

Duelfer said then that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction and had not made any since 1991. However, he said the government harbored intentions of recreating its weapons programs and had gone to great lengths to manipulate the U.N. oil-for-food program. 

In an interview Wednesday with Barbara Walters of ABC News, Bush defended his decision to invade Iraq. 

"I felt like we'd find weapons of mass destruction ? like many here in the United States, many around the world," Bush said in the interview, to be broadcast Friday night. "We need to find out what went wrong in the intelligence gathering. ... Saddam was dangerous and the world is safer without him in power." 

In a statement, House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi of California said Bush "needs to explain to the American people why he was so wrong, for so long, about the reasons for war." 

The end of the weapons hunt comes as the Bush administration struggles with a dangerous security situation in Iraq leading up to Jan. 30 elections. 

Meanwhile, other countries ? notably Iran and North Korea (news - web sites) ? are suspected of developing covert nuclear weapons programs. 

When asked whether the failure to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq would damage U.S. credibility in handling future threats, McClellan said the president would continue to work with the international community, particularly on diplomatic solutions. He said pre-emptive military action was "the last option" to pursue. 

"We are acting to make sure we have the best possible intelligence," McClellan said, adding that a number of changes have been made since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. 

Almost one year ago, Bush formed a presidential commission to investigate U.S. intelligence capabilities on weapons of mass destruction, focusing not only on Iraq but on how well the intelligence community understands the threat from other countries and terror networks. Its report is due March 31. 

The closing down of the weapons search was first reported in the Washington Post on Wednesday.   

David Kay, who headed the Iraq Survey Group until stepping down last January, said he was not surprised the group was concluding its efforts without finding any major weapons stockpiles. 

"It is like dropping a shoe a little late. Quite frankly, I don't think anyone who follows it very closely has suspected anything else over the last year. It was a matter of when the obvious would be done," Kay said. 

He said that intelligence analysts working in Iraq had found themselves in a dangerous security situation and that many had reached conclusions about the lack of weapons as much as 18 months ago. "How do you keep them motivated?" he asked.

At the State Department, spokesman Richard Boucher said the U.S. government was paying stipends to about 120 Iraqi scientists who once had been working in weapons programs. They now are working on scientific research outside weapons development.

Greg Thielmann, the former manager of the State Department office that tracked chemical, biological and nuclear weapons issues, said the United States should devote energy to employment of these scientists, who now appear to have been involved in non-weapons work under Saddam in recent years.

"Who knows what they are going to do?" asked Thielmann, who left his position in September 2002. "One can question whether we improved the security situation through the invasion."


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OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Search for Iraqi WMD officially ends [Re: EchoVortex]
    #3621730 - 01/13/05 02:38 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I don't really see anyone pulling any punches with this. Everybody admited the weapons would probobly never be found and probobly never existed a very long time ago. The election did not hinge on this one thing that everyone already knew.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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Offlinetrev
comming out of retirement
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Registered: 04/03/03
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Re: Search for Iraqi WMD officially ends [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3622048 - 01/13/05 03:44 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

It ended the day saddam didnt use them on his most hated enemies the invading americans.


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Anonymous #14
[quote]There are billions of people on this planet. The world does not revolve around the united states, moron. I hope terrorists crash their collective cocks into your asshole. [/quote]


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Search for Iraqi WMD officially ends [Re: EchoVortex]
    #3622316 - 01/13/05 05:37 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

so then..was the war still justified because of oil?...there are those..such max boot..who would argue that the aggressive seizure of oil and other land resources is necessary in order to protect this country ..

Quote:

In his well-publicized piece "The Case for American Empire" in the conservative Weekly Standard, Max Boot argued that "The most realistic response to terrorism is for America to embrace its imperial role."




(from wikipedia)...

and there are also those who would argue that the seizure of oil was still justified..even if it wasnt to defend the country...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


Edited by Annapurna1 (01/13/05 05:49 AM)


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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
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Re: Search for Iraqi WMD officially ends [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3622333 - 01/13/05 05:52 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

everyone already knew.




not in the surveys i saw...


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Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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InvisibleCJay
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Registered: 02/02/04
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Re: Search for Iraqi WMD officially ends [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3622335 - 01/13/05 05:54 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

it is - it's fully in the American interest to seize foreign and easily available resources, coz the ole US ain't got nothing to offer the world except guns....they need empire to sustain the wealth and comfort the US Rich are used to.

Keep the status quo - remain the daddy

Take candy from babies.....


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: Search for Iraqi WMD officially ends [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3622373 - 01/13/05 06:37 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

so then..was the war still justified because of oil?...there are those..such max boot..who would argue that the aggressive seizure of oil and other land resources is necessary in order to protect this country ..




To add to my last post...

This may be *ahem* necessary, but playing it on moral bullshit is quite another thing.

Tricking everyone into thinking the cause is a just, noble removal of the world's second most dangerous man - when really it is about stealing from someone, is quite disgusting.

Saddam was the victim of the classic Witch burning - If he was a witch (or warlock rather) he would survive...he didn't?? ah well he's dead now so who cares. Guess he wasn't a warlock after all....never mind, no harm done...and oh?? What's that? We own all his stuff?? Now theres a turn up for the books.

Who cares what is rigfht or wrong - we wanted him out the way anyway. (And we want his black gold!!)

Why don't they just say it? Honesty is the best policy apparently - kinda strange how no one trusts the USA.

:strokebeard:


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OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Search for Iraqi WMD officially ends [Re: CJay]
    #3623648 - 01/13/05 04:11 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Enough with this oil crap. Somebody explain to me how we stole Iraq's oil and profited, and why gas prices aren't lower as a result? Are we hauling them off in barrels and shipping them to the US? Or are we storing them in some greedy CEO's basement (who hasn't figured out you have to sell stuff to make money from it)? Did we take over all their oil refineries and replace the workers with Americans, or all their companies with American companies? Or are we stealing the state oik revenues and loading it onto big ships to the US to distribute to corpoerate CEOs?

If all of these outcomes seem completely illogical and implausible then you are right. IRAQ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH OIL.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: Search for Iraqi WMD officially ends [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3623910 - 01/13/05 05:19 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

ill be the first to admit that iraq hasnt panned out the way the administration intended..so no..we havent stolen the oil yet...but that was still the intention..according to former bush treasury secy paul o'neill..who is no whacko lefty...and thats not to mention dick cheney and halliburton...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
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Re: Search for Iraqi WMD officially ends [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3623929 - 01/13/05 05:24 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

IRAQ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH OIL.




http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3043330.stm


--------------------
Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Registered: 11/02/03
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Re: Search for Iraqi WMD officially ends [Re: Tao]
    #3624106 - 01/13/05 06:07 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Ok, Poland. Those guys were riding on the coattails. Their motives are bound to be different than ours.

If all we have is fairly biased guess and assumption of secret motives that were never acted out then I'd say the case is more than shakey.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
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Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: Search for Iraqi WMD officially ends [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3624265 - 01/13/05 06:42 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

i dont believe the notion that it was all about oil, but i dont know if you can say it didnt play any part. look at the economic disaster that happened in the 70s when OPEC had complete control over the supply. one could easily argue that oil access has to do with national security.


--------------------
Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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InvisibleGreat_Satan
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Registered: 09/05/04
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Re: Search for Iraqi WMD officially ends [Re: Tao]
    #3624298 - 01/13/05 06:47 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Going into Iraq was the right decision at the time. Saddam Hussein led people to believe he was hiding something like WMD. Actually invading all Islamic countries and making them into democracies is right.


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OfflineSWEDEN
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Registered: 10/25/04
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Re: Search for Iraqi WMD officially ends [Re: Great_Satan]
    #3624818 - 01/13/05 08:50 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

In your deranged fantasty world it might be right. Did ya ever stop to think it might be this same policy of "democratizing" the Arab world that is turning them fanatically against us?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Search for Iraqi WMD officially ends [Re: SWEDEN]
    #3624989 - 01/13/05 09:13 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I dunno. Afghanistan doesn't seem to be too resentful these days. Do they count as Arabs? And would you please tell me just which Arab nation we have democratized previous to the ongoing pacification effort in Iraq.


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InvisibleDNKYD
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Registered: 09/24/04
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Re: Search for Iraqi WMD officially ends [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3625100 - 01/13/05 09:29 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Listen people, going into Iraq to "disarm" Saddam of his "WMD" or for oil is merely cover stories that distract from the real problem. Bush and Co. want to establish America as a dominant power in the Middle East, per the PNAC (Project for the New American Century). Afghanistan was step one, Iraq is step two, and who knows what step three will be. It was NOT for oil, it was NOT to "disarm" Saddam, it was NOT to rid the dictator of WMD.
Fighting multiple theater wars simultaneously is one of the aims of the PNAC. And no, the PNAC is not some loony conspiracy theory. It is widely accepted among the Bush administration as their foreign policy. They want one thing and one thing only, an American global empire. Oil is just a beneficial byproduct of becoming a dominant superpower in the Middle East.


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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
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Re: Search for Iraqi WMD officially ends [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3625924 - 01/14/05 12:21 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Enough with this oil crap. Somebody explain to me how we stole Iraq's oil and profited, and why gas prices aren't lower as a result? Are we hauling them off in barrels and shipping them to the US? Or are we storing them in some greedy CEO's basement (who hasn't figured out you have to sell stuff to make money from it)? Did we take over all their oil refineries and replace the workers with Americans, or all their companies with American companies? Or are we stealing the state oik revenues and loading it onto big ships to the US to distribute to corpoerate CEOs?

If all of these outcomes seem completely illogical and implausible then you are right. IRAQ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH OIL.


Time for some constructive criticism. Your above examples are naive, seemingly on purpose. Creating the 'opposition's argument' yourself and then revealing the idiocy of it is what is known as a strawman fallacy. The last statement stinks of denial.

In modern industrial civilization just about everything is dependent on oil. I will not even go into specifics. One rule though, when oil gets expensive, so does everything else.

(CHEAP)Oil is running out, and we have not changed our infrastructure to reflect that. We have not come near to 'inventing' our way out of this pickle. We therefore need to make sure we will have cheap oil for as long as we can.

The idea isn't to go into Iraq and literally steal oil, barrel it up and hide it in our back yards. It is to set-up a "US friendly" government that will fall in line with US interests, letting US oil companies in, selling oil in dollars (not euro's as saddam was), basically ensuring US/western elites have their hands on the pump.

If we have access to more oil, why haven't the prices gone down??

Business, my friend, business. Demand for oil is, by the fact, high. Under our current infrastructure it will always be high. Therefore it is a sellers market, and when you are a publically traded corporation and legally obligated to increase profits, you will not lower prices to match the change in supply, you will take the opportunity to increase your profit margins.(If you don't you, unfortunately, have no place in business)

The official reasons for this war were mere marketing ploys. Needed something that was hard to disagree with and something that wouldn't cause panic in the markets.

I can understand the annoyance of constantly hearing "its all about the oil, etc. ad nauseum.. especially when half the people saying it don't know what it means. But this, along with modern geopolitics in general, IS about oil.


--------------------
If you want a free lunch, you need to learn how to eat good advice.


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Search for Iraqi WMD officially ends [Re: Great_Satan]
    #3626051 - 01/14/05 12:55 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Yea right. Iraq is crumbling and its obvious that we can no longer support this war without going bankrupt.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Search for Iraqi WMD officially ends [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #3626069 - 01/14/05 12:59 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I'm going to wait and see how the elections go...

If they work... the fight for oil was worth it...

If civil war erupts, WE WERE WRONG!


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Search for Iraqi WMD officially ends [Re: Rose]
    #3626265 - 01/14/05 01:41 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

^ bush is even more deranged than i would have imagined..if he really thinks that he can legitimize his puppet regime with some parody of an election...the administration neocons and their media lapdogs might start calling it a "civil war" from that point on..but its still the same war...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


Edited by Annapurna1 (01/14/05 01:46 AM)


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