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kranked
it'smushtastic!!

Registered: 08/31/04
Posts: 106
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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Cant explain it.
#3620508 - 01/12/05 08:21 PM (20 years, 8 days ago) |
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This is probably the last thing you guys would like to be reading but I've honestly gone to the ends of the earth to get my mushrooms to grow.
I really cant pinpoint what I'm doing wrong. It's getting incredibly frustrating. I'm using a PF-tek with a b+ spore syringe from sporeworks.com.
I cant even get bloody mold to grow in the jars. This tells me one of two things. A) They are exceptionally sterile B) The environment isn't suitable for anything to grow. I'm finding option B hard to believe considering that mold grows on almost anything with a suitable moisture content. The jars are looking exactly like other peoples jars. They are decently moist but not to moist.
This finally leads me to think that the spore syringes were duds. But all 5 of them? In 5 different attempts? Not likely. At this point I really don't want to give up. Can anyone recommend a VERY re-liable PF-tek and possibly were I can buy an idiot proof cultivation kit?
Any replies are greatly appreciated considering I'm at the end of my rope.
-------------------- "When it went off in New Mexico, that first atomic bomb, we thought of Alfred Nobel and his hope, his vain hope, that dynamite would put an end to all war"
-Robert Oppenheimer 1945
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onetime
onetime


Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 3,609
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
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Re: Cant explain it. [Re: kranked]
#3620519 - 01/12/05 08:23 PM (20 years, 8 days ago) |
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do you have a pressure cooker ?
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See?
Yes, with my own three eyes.
Depression, Misspells , wanting everying thing i cant have haveing nothing i want
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IGnosticAbhorI
Stranger-er

Registered: 11/06/04
Posts: 4,899
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Re: Cant explain it. [Re: kranked]
#3620527 - 01/12/05 08:24 PM (20 years, 8 days ago) |
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Might have been jars....you didn't knock them up and then sterilyze did you? 
Well, explain a bit more on your procedure and perhaps i can point you in a good direction?
If not, then Gl
-gnostic-
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IGnosticAbhorI
Stranger-er

Registered: 11/06/04
Posts: 4,899
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Don't need a PC for Pf....
Only grains, trying to get him to go grain?
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onetime
onetime


Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 3,609
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
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well grains are a million times easier than pf grains have what three steps no massureing
soak 24hrs
drain
load jars and pc
how simple is that wbs i mean
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See?
Yes, with my own three eyes.
Depression, Misspells , wanting everying thing i cant have haveing nothing i want
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ld50negative1
lethal dosage

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 821
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
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Re: Cant explain it. [Re: kranked]
#3620570 - 01/12/05 08:33 PM (20 years, 8 days ago) |
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Get a mycobag
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kranked
it'smushtastic!!

Registered: 08/31/04
Posts: 106
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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No I didn't knock them up before sterilizing. Not that dumb. Can anyone recommend a web-page were I can find a good kit? Same for spores. I'm not asking to be spoon fed. Ive looked alot.
-------------------- "When it went off in New Mexico, that first atomic bomb, we thought of Alfred Nobel and his hope, his vain hope, that dynamite would put an end to all war"
-Robert Oppenheimer 1945
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IGnosticAbhorI
Stranger-er

Registered: 11/06/04
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Re: Cant explain it. [Re: kranked]
#3620632 - 01/12/05 08:45 PM (20 years, 8 days ago) |
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You can check out the shroomery's sponsers.
I've heard of a lot of bad things about sporeworks.com... Maybe that's where it went wrong...
But regardless, explain your procedure, i'm curious as to what you did and if you did something wrong, i'd hate to think sporeworks sucks even more when you may have been at fault...and sry about the sterile joke =), But some people have done it 
Well, Good luck..
-gnostic-
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kranked
it'smushtastic!!

Registered: 08/31/04
Posts: 106
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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No harm taken. I had a good laugh actually! Well explain what I'm doing you say? Hmm were to start.....
You see sporeworks is the only site I could find that would ship to good old Canada land.
The PF-tek involved mixing vermiculite, organic brown rice flour and distilled water. The jars then had the lids lightly screwed down. They were then placed four at a time into a large pot of water ontop of a rack. (They didn't actually contact the water.) They were steamed for 20 minutes. Removed, cooled down, lids tightened. I used a nail and a hammer to punch 3 small holes in each lid of each jar. They were thus inoculated through these holes.
I covered the holes with hockey tape. Placed the jars in a box and placed the bow on top of a heating pad that was set to low. A towel covered the whole thing. Ive also tried leaving other attempts covered but in the cold basement of my house.
-------------------- "When it went off in New Mexico, that first atomic bomb, we thought of Alfred Nobel and his hope, his vain hope, that dynamite would put an end to all war"
-Robert Oppenheimer 1945
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NOS4A2
This is the way

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 572
Loc: -tite
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Re: Cant explain it. [Re: kranked]
#3620733 - 01/12/05 09:09 PM (20 years, 8 days ago) |
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Make sure it's dark, your at 86degs+- and it stays that way. If nothing grows it's gotta be your syringe or inoculation technique.Pretty simple
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kranked
it'smushtastic!!

Registered: 08/31/04
Posts: 106
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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Re: Cant explain it. [Re: NOS4A2]
#3620757 - 01/12/05 09:14 PM (20 years, 8 days ago) |
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I've pretty much narrowed it down to exactly that. Were do the majority of people buy reliable prints/syringes?
-------------------- "When it went off in New Mexico, that first atomic bomb, we thought of Alfred Nobel and his hope, his vain hope, that dynamite would put an end to all war"
-Robert Oppenheimer 1945
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bemmers1
friend of afriendly farmer
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 179
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
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Re: Cant explain it. [Re: kranked]
#3620795 - 01/12/05 09:22 PM (20 years, 8 days ago) |
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I'm not sure if they are a site sponsor, so I'm not sure if I should be recommending them, but the sporelab has always been great to me. I live in Canada also, and have had no problems with the service/syringes I got. Good luck man, don't give up. It is definately worth it in the end, but can be more than a little frustrating when starting
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kranked
it'smushtastic!!

Registered: 08/31/04
Posts: 106
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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Re: Cant explain it. [Re: bemmers1]
#3620862 - 01/12/05 09:36 PM (20 years, 8 days ago) |
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I'll check them out. Thanks for the encouragement.
-------------------- "When it went off in New Mexico, that first atomic bomb, we thought of Alfred Nobel and his hope, his vain hope, that dynamite would put an end to all war"
-Robert Oppenheimer 1945
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IGnosticAbhorI
Stranger-er

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Re: Cant explain it. [Re: kranked]
#3620896 - 01/12/05 09:42 PM (20 years, 8 days ago) |
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Ok wait...lemme go over this, You said that you steamed for 20mintues and then you punched un-sterile nails into your clean jars? I think that you meant that you punched the holes, then covered them with some type of tape, steamed, and then innocualted....Correct?
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metasin
Stranger


Registered: 10/12/04
Posts: 972
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Re: Cant explain it. [Re: kranked]
#3620900 - 01/12/05 09:42 PM (20 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
kranked said: They were then placed four at a time into a large pot of water ontop of a rack. (They didn't actually contact the water.)
I dont know how much of a difference it makes but I have always had the water halfway up the jar, just not touching the foil.
They were steamed for 20 minutes. Removed, cooled down, lids tightened.
If you steamed for only 20 I hope it was a pressure cooker not just a boiling pot of water like it sounds. Why did you tighten the lids? I have noticed much faster colonization time with the lid tightened just to where it starts to get snug, no tape on the innoc holes, and foil covering the whole lid.
I used a nail and a hammer to punch 3 small holes in each lid of each jar.
Why would you use a dirty ass nail to punch the holes AFTER you sterilize the jars???
I covered the holes with hockey tape. If you put tape on it sterilize it after you do
Placed the jars in a box and placed the bow on top of a heating pad that was set to low.
What temperature are they at right now? If its in the 90's like I think that is another reason you aren't going to see any growth
btw you didnt leave the jars in the electric blanket to cool or anything did you?
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IGnosticAbhorI
Stranger-er

Registered: 11/06/04
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Re: Cant explain it. [Re: metasin]
#3620926 - 01/12/05 09:46 PM (20 years, 8 days ago) |
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Recondite, bravo, you got acros what i was trying to say...and I got owned, Nice
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metasin
Stranger


Registered: 10/12/04
Posts: 972
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Quote:
IGnosticAbhorI said: Recondite, bravo, you got acros what i was trying to say...and I got owned, Nice
kinda funny as we both posted it at the same exact time, heh
:p
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kranked
it'smushtastic!!

Registered: 08/31/04
Posts: 106
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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The lids were snug, not reefed on. I didnt want them to pressurise and explode. My first time, so I didnt know what to expect.
The jars cooled to rom temp. before I inoculated them. I dont quite understand the tinfoil idea. Care to explain a little more.
The fact that the nail was unsterilized was besides the point. The nail maybe came within 3cm of the cakes in the jars. Even then contam didn't occur.
Thanks for putting up with my n00bishness.
-------------------- "When it went off in New Mexico, that first atomic bomb, we thought of Alfred Nobel and his hope, his vain hope, that dynamite would put an end to all war"
-Robert Oppenheimer 1945
Edited by kranked (01/12/05 10:19 PM)
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LaughingJim
Anti-Toxin


Registered: 09/30/04
Posts: 465
Loc: USA, ( CT )
Last seen: 19 years, 4 months
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I would be willing to bet that the heat may have transfered too quickly through the glass. (You may have fried your spores, or dried them!) Try adding about 1 inch of distance between the hot-plate and the jars. Even though the temp says 84F, the plate has to get to 110F to change 70F into 84F.
Glass is NOT an insulator, it will transfer heat real fast! Not as fast as metal, but it will transfer and hold high heat.
You might want to put a frying pan on the hot-plate, and then put the jars on a round cookie sheet, sitting in the pan. Even place a little water in the pan, but keep it all covered. If you have a temprature controller, put it directly on the hot-plate. (They are not always fast... some take up to five seconds to notice the temp is too high before it turns down the temp.)
My old temp sensor let my hot-plate get up to 110F, for about five seconds, then it turned off... and waited until it fell to 75F before it turned back on. It stayed at 105F for about a min after shutting off. (Tested with a true thermomiter, and digital, my digital has a 2 second lag, and 10% acuracy, as most probes do. Only one probe with a Silicon sensor gives a linear output that is quick and within 0.1% across the board. Made by a company called "Andigilog". It is the only acurate digital temp sensor probe, that doesn't cost $800.00) They actually sent me a sample of all of thier chips, 5 each of 9 types... they are fast and acurate!
Adding that space will give you a little more of a heat buffer, so that the glass may only feel 90F of the 110F, and only for a split second, as opposed to seconds/minutes.
If you still have trouble... use a smaller wattage. You only need 5w-15w to maintain 84F... If the plate is a 25w - 300w plate, then that is your trouble. (Flip it over on the bottom, near the plug is the wattage rate.)
-------------------- Don't forget to RATE us if you think we are offering GOOD or BAD advice, Thank-you!
I participate in the PROTEIN FOLDING PROGRAM helping the shroomery to help others,
FOLDING.STANFORD.EDU
I support www.shroomery.org (Team # 12679)
Edited by LaughingJim (01/12/05 10:20 PM)
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kranked
it'smushtastic!!

Registered: 08/31/04
Posts: 106
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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I inoculated after I had sterilized.
I also did what you said with the pan and the water. The jars never touched the water because the rack raised them above the water level.
-------------------- "When it went off in New Mexico, that first atomic bomb, we thought of Alfred Nobel and his hope, his vain hope, that dynamite would put an end to all war"
-Robert Oppenheimer 1945
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IGnosticAbhorI
Stranger-er

Registered: 11/06/04
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Re: Cant explain it. [Re: kranked]
#3621211 - 01/12/05 10:30 PM (20 years, 8 days ago) |
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Well fuck, I just put a towel on the bottom of the pan and then boiled in about 3inches of water, they turn out fine, but i do mine for about an hour...Nothing burns, so it's one of those, "just in case" type of deals..
Ok...Well you make holes in your lid, Then you take off the ring, then you put tape over the holes and then aluminum foil ( it helps keep out moisture), then you screw the ring back on..You don't have to loosen them, Just make sure that you have holes, All boiling/PCing does is give the jars Negative presure( when you open up a jar of salsa the jar pops, thats from neg. pressure), so those holes suck in air, therefore the tape and foil helps keep out the moisture, To be honest tho, you still get a lil bit in there, which sucks, because the whole point of a dry layer of verm. in ur cakes is to keep contams out...but there's water,lol, no nutes for the bacteria, but if it lies dormat and then the myc. grows on it, viola, Contamination...Well, that if you get something hardcore that's typically on grains...Anyways, Good luck and try grains soon, You'll LOVE em, later
-Gl
-gnostic-
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LaughingJim
Anti-Toxin


Registered: 09/30/04
Posts: 465
Loc: USA, ( CT )
Last seen: 19 years, 4 months
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Quote:
Placed the jars in a box and placed the bow on top of a heating pad that was set to low. A towel covered the whole thing. Ive also tried leaving other attempts covered but in the cold basement of my house.
I was talking about the incubation... not sterilization
If it wasn't too hot, then it may have been too cold...
-------------------- Don't forget to RATE us if you think we are offering GOOD or BAD advice, Thank-you!
I participate in the PROTEIN FOLDING PROGRAM helping the shroomery to help others,
FOLDING.STANFORD.EDU
I support www.shroomery.org (Team # 12679)
Edited by LaughingJim (01/12/05 10:38 PM)
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metasin
Stranger


Registered: 10/12/04
Posts: 972
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how long did you let them cool to room temp?
If the glass is cool to the touch it doesn't mean that the inside of the jar is.
I fried a couple jars once like that cause I put them in the incubator to cool (idn why dont ask) I usually let them go overnight in a cool place now just to be anal about it. GL
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LaughingJim
Anti-Toxin


Registered: 09/30/04
Posts: 465
Loc: USA, ( CT )
Last seen: 19 years, 4 months
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Re: Cant explain it. [Re: metasin]
#3621258 - 01/12/05 10:40 PM (20 years, 8 days ago) |
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Here is the thing with heat pads, if they feel warm to you, then it is close to 98.6F, well, hotter than 84F.
-------------------- Don't forget to RATE us if you think we are offering GOOD or BAD advice, Thank-you!
I participate in the PROTEIN FOLDING PROGRAM helping the shroomery to help others,
FOLDING.STANFORD.EDU
I support www.shroomery.org (Team # 12679)
Edited by LaughingJim (01/12/05 10:42 PM)
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kranked
it'smushtastic!!

Registered: 08/31/04
Posts: 106
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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I cooled for a 24hr period. Should I nix the heating pad idea during the incubation?
-------------------- "When it went off in New Mexico, that first atomic bomb, we thought of Alfred Nobel and his hope, his vain hope, that dynamite would put an end to all war"
-Robert Oppenheimer 1945
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JJdubble
Brown and new intown!

Registered: 12/14/04
Posts: 204
Last seen: 19 years, 11 months
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Re: Cant explain it. [Re: kranked]
#3621435 - 01/12/05 11:15 PM (20 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
kranked said: I've pretty much narrowed it down to exactly that. Were do the majority of people buy reliable prints/syringes?
where did u buy ur syringes?
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metasin
Stranger


Registered: 10/12/04
Posts: 972
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Re: Cant explain it. [Re: JJdubble]
#3621529 - 01/12/05 11:45 PM (20 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
JJdubble said:
Quote:
kranked said:
I've pretty much narrowed it down to exactly that. :: the syringes::?? Were do the majority of people buy reliable prints/syringes?
where did u buy ur syringes?
lets not question the shroomery's sponsors, if their product wasn't good I dont think they would still be a sponsor. There were a few things in your process that I question, but I think the number one thing that would cause no colonization would be excessive heat. Look into your your electric blanket, that may be the culprit. Did you flame sterilize the needle, if so how long did you let it cool?
Edited by recondite (01/13/05 12:46 AM)
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metasin
Stranger


Registered: 10/12/04
Posts: 972
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Re: Cant explain it. [Re: metasin]
#3621547 - 01/12/05 11:51 PM (20 years, 8 days ago) |
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also, I don't know why this hasn't been asked yet but how long has it been since you innoc'd?
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kranked
it'smushtastic!!

Registered: 08/31/04
Posts: 106
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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Re: Cant explain it. [Re: metasin]
#3624760 - 01/13/05 06:39 PM (20 years, 7 days ago) |
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Excessive heat eh? I'll split the jars 50/50 cold basement/heating pad. See how it turns out.
How long ago did I inno'c them? To tell you the truth I did it about 3 months ago. I kinda gave up on them and forgot about them. Havent had a chance to clean the jars out yet. I'm thinking I should try to get normal mold to grow in them first. Just to see if I can even do that.
-------------------- "When it went off in New Mexico, that first atomic bomb, we thought of Alfred Nobel and his hope, his vain hope, that dynamite would put an end to all war"
-Robert Oppenheimer 1945
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lemon_lw
Stranger

Registered: 10/17/04
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Re: Cant explain it. [Re: kranked]
#3624798 - 01/13/05 06:46 PM (20 years, 7 days ago) |
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i didnt read this whole post but dont really go trying to grow mold, you may grow something that can make you sick. and dont split the jars just put them in temps between 84-86F to incubate them if its cold it will take for ever to colonize making your chances for contams higher.
-------------------- In the belly of the Leviathan, one can either despair and perish, or be cheerful and persevere.-Dean Koontz
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IGnosticAbhorI
Stranger-er

Registered: 11/06/04
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Re: Cant explain it. [Re: kranked]
#3624896 - 01/13/05 07:01 PM (20 years, 7 days ago) |
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Hey recondite, It makes me glad to see someone so proud of their site...But Just because shroomery is great and has nice sponsers, doesn't mean that they won't screw up every now and then, Perhaps it was your syringes, But then again, you seem to know only so much about what your doing, I'd say research, then ask questions, then grow, But it's your grow and your money.
-Gl
-Gnostic-
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psilocyber
old hand

Registered: 06/08/99
Posts: 1,850
Last seen: 1 month, 13 days
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I'm not sure where you have heard so many bad things about Sporeworks.com, but we have been an industry leader for over five years, bringing exclusive, unique, new psilocybe spore samples and exotic mushroom cultures to the mushrooming community. We have also done everything within our power to ensure great customer service reputation along the way. If there is or ever has been a problem with any of our products we ALWAYS take care of the customer ASAP.
As for the problem being experienced here. It does appear as though incubation temps may have played a role, or the neglect of jars for 3 months. But there are also possibilities source material may have been damaged in transit along the way. Shipping to Canada can put a sample in a mail or over the road truck for long periods of time, and if this sample is exposed to extreme cold or head along the way, it can end up sterile.
If this customer does determine our syringe to be at fault, you can bet we will send them replacements ASAP, all we ask is that they contact us via email or PM to arrange for such replacement.
Hopefully this will help ease your mind in what otherwise appears to be a fairly hostile attitude towards our company based on heresay.
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IGnosticAbhorI
Stranger-er

Registered: 11/06/04
Posts: 4,899
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Quote:
psilocyber said: I'm not sure where you have heard so many bad things about Sporeworks.com, but we have been an industry leader for over five years, bringing exclusive, unique, new psilocybe spore samples and exotic mushroom cultures to the mushrooming community. We have also done everything within our power to ensure great customer service reputation along the way. If there is or ever has been a problem with any of our products we ALWAYS take care of the customer ASAP.
As for the problem being experienced here. It does appear as though incubation temps may have played a role, or the neglect of jars for 3 months. But there are also possibilities source material may have been damaged in transit along the way. Shipping to Canada can put a sample in a mail or over the road truck for long periods of time, and if this sample is exposed to extreme cold or head along the way, it can end up sterile.
If this customer does determine our syringe to be at fault, you can bet we will send them replacements ASAP, all we ask is that they contact us via email or PM to arrange for such replacement.
Hopefully this will help ease your mind in what otherwise appears to be a fairly hostile attitude towards our company based on heresay.
You called it a hostile attitude. It's not hostile or downtroddening in any way to you, or the companey. It was just a pure statement, It meant that IF he did everything correctly, which he may or may not have, then you shouldn't rule out the companey may have sent bad products, it happens, no one is perfect, and neither is your companey or any other, whether or not it's a fault of the companey or the delivery. I just meant that Shit Happens, And it's nice to know that All he has to do is write you guys and you'll fix the "problem", I have althought heard claims that it takes forever for you guys to reply, 6 months isn't what I'd consider ASAP, But then again, I've never bought anything from you guys, Not saying that I won't, But every delievery Can't be perfect, I'm sure that you guys have this under control.
Gl to all and may your syringes be hardcore and not Suck.
-Gnostic-
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Rockstar69
Stoner

Registered: 09/04/04
Posts: 93
Loc: Georgia
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Right on psilocyber..
-------------------- "We gotta stop smokin', stop, stop, ..I mean cigarette smokin!" -- Jimi Hendrix
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psilocyber
old hand

Registered: 06/08/99
Posts: 1,850
Last seen: 1 month, 13 days
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Where did you hear it takes 6 months for our company to reply to email?
We've NEVER had customer service come anwywhere close to being that bad. Emails are usually answered within 24-48 hours, products shipped within 2-3 days (unless temporarily backlogged).
I guess statements like this is whats got me wondering about the source of the information where you've "heard bad things about Sporeworks."
Maybe you have us confused with somebody else?
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IGnosticAbhorI
Stranger-er

Registered: 11/06/04
Posts: 4,899
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Wow, Ok, you guys are defiently consumed in keeping a big image, That REALLY bugs me. My friend Robert (bobert for short), Bought syringes from you quite awhile back, he wrote you guys b/c they were no good, contaminated with green mold. He wrote several times, when no reply came. Then finally he got a ahold of you guys, had to explain himself quite a bit and about the problems with his syringes, then he had to wait about 2 weeks for the syringes. I don't feel like sitting here BAD mouthing your companey when like i've said a million times, It's probably just ONE case in a MILLION.
LIKE I said, SHIT Happens. It's kool, no big deal, he was probably one mess up out a million. I'm sure that you guys have things under control.
I'll probably buy some syringes off you guys when I stop making prints, or want something new.
Till then, I'm pretty much done with this thread. Like I said, Probably just one mess up out of a million, No companey is perfect, that's why you guys let people write you, JUST in Case.
wow, I'm getting worked up,lol. Well, I'm done, I don't mean to sound like a dick, Just trying to get my point across.
-Good luck to your and your companey, may good things arise from this.
-Sincerly,
IGnosticAbhorI
Edit: Had to fix some things, it's kind of early....
Edited by IGnosticAbhorI (01/14/05 01:55 PM)
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MushroomFriend
I smell a conspiracy!


Registered: 10/12/04
Posts: 4,055
Loc: The Druid Peak Pack.
Last seen: 10 months, 4 days
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Re: Cant explain it. [Re: kranked]
#3628683 - 01/14/05 01:56 PM (20 years, 6 days ago) |
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When reading all this its making me dizzy.
Kranked, can you write EVERYTHING from your process down from the start?
- which mix did you use (I guess the 2-1-1 / verm-water-brf)?
- did you pack the mix after you filled the jars?
- did you use a pressure cooker? if not what then? How long did they "boil"?
- how long did they wait to cool, and where?
- what and where did you do with the syringes before you used them?
- how much did you inoc in each hole?
- where did you incubate them? what temp?
- did you store them airtight? (hockeytape over the holes does not sound very breathing 2 me)
I can recommend the PF tek for simpleminds, it is here in the informative section some where.
And about the mud thrown to sporeworks. Always be carefull with that. No matter if it is persons or companies, which are represented by persons too. Not saying that nothing can go wrong with a syringe before or after sending it.
Ive had 2 bad syringes (but did not test them on agar) but in both cases the vendors (one of them a sponsor here) solved it nice for me and replaced it. Even though it wasnt 100% sure that it was "their fault".
If you doubt the syringe/product simply contact the vendor! By private or if you have to in the sponsors forum.
Known thieves, like "the keeper", can be slandered though... In every forum
Good luck!
MF
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