Home | Community | Message Board


Azarius
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
The Power of Swami!
    #3618211 - 01/12/05 03:34 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Relax folks and put down the pitchforks. This is not an ego-based thread about how amazing I am. No, this is about the Power of Mix, of Deff, of Jiggy, of Frog, of sclorch, of fireworks_god and all the rest of you.

Here is my contention: we generally have too little faith in our own abilities and thus create an imaginary external force or power (god) to lean on and "give us" strength. I contend the strength is already there.

Guy #1 lost in the wilderness after a plane crash: without God's help, I would have never found the strength to find my way back.

Guy #2 lost in the wilderness after a plane crash: I have always had faith in my ability to survive. When I set my mind to do a task, I will finish it no matter what.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSinbad
Living TheMoment
Male

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
Re: The Power of Swami! [Re: Swami]
    #3618288 - 01/12/05 03:44 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Sounds pretty spot on to me!

Theistic religion always places the emphasis of power on the external! Wihtout realizing the source of all power comes from within.

But both views require faith in an unrealistic character!


--------------------


Edited by Sinbad (01/13/05 05:50 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineld50negative1
lethal dosage

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 821
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: The Power of Swami! [Re: Swami]
    #3618303 - 01/12/05 03:46 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

There are certainly things we do have the power to do on our own...

If I had power over my own death I would most certainly not believe in God, but alas...



everyone dies




Also, have you ever believed in God? I don't understand how you could realize that the reason someone believes in God is because they don't have self-confidence or faith in their own strength? That seems to be something very.... misconceived... the strength of God is perfected in weakness... the christian faith is about death to self so that you can live by the Spirit and finish out this life on the earth...

it aint a crutch buddy... trust me


--------------------


Edited by ld50negative1 (01/12/05 03:52 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: The Power of Swami! [Re: ld50negative1]
    #3618321 - 01/12/05 03:50 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

everyone dies

This is an extrapolation, not a fact.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinedeafpanda
Stranger
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 984
Loc: Inguland
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
Re: The Power of Swami! [Re: Swami]
    #3618322 - 01/12/05 03:50 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Here is my contention: we generally have too little faith in our own abilities and thus create an imaginary external force or power (god) to lean on and "give us" strength. I contend the strength is already there.




Maybe for some people, but I'm sure there are a great deal of other reasons why people believe in god.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineld50negative1
lethal dosage

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 821
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: The Power of Swami! [Re: Swami]
    #3618344 - 01/12/05 03:54 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
everyone dies

This is an extrapolation, not a fact.




If you are basing that on the idea that we don't ever die because we have spirits... well, then you are right on!

Show me a person that doesn't eventually rot in a grave... that is insane to say that death is not fact


your argument makes more sense in justifying an atheist than it does accusing a theist of ignorance in their own reasoning


--------------------


Edited by ld50negative1 (01/12/05 03:57 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineskystone
stop the motion
Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 465
Loc: state,country,etc.
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: The Power of Swami! [Re: Swami]
    #3618353 - 01/12/05 03:55 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Relax folks and put down the pitchforks. This is not an ego-based thread about how amazing I am. No, this is about the Power of Mix, of Deff, of Jiggy, of Frog, of sclorch, of fireworks_god and all the rest of you.

Here is my contention: we generally have too little faith in our own abilities and thus create an imaginary external force or power (god) to lean on and "give us" strength. I contend the strength is already there.

Guy #1 lost in the wilderness after a plane crash: without God's help, I would have never found the strength to find my way back.

Guy #2 lost in the wilderness after a plane crash: I have always had faith in my ability to survive. When I set my mind to do a task, I will finish it no matter what.




Faith in god, faith in own abilities, it doesn't matter.
It's the faith that counts.

Since god is everything, faith in anything is faith in god


--------------------
"..and suddenly it began to rain"


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinedeafpanda
Stranger
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 984
Loc: Inguland
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
Re: The Power of Swami! [Re: ld50negative1]
    #3618361 - 01/12/05 03:57 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

It's not technically, but if you are going to say that "everyone dies" is not a fact then you also have to say that "heavy things fall to the ground" is not a fact, just an extrapolation.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineld50negative1
lethal dosage

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 821
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: The Power of Swami! [Re: deafpanda]
    #3618374 - 01/12/05 03:59 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

An extrapolation would be:

If 2/5 days that I walked by Joe going to class I saw him playing frisbee and because of this I stated the extrapolation that Joe plays frisbee everyday. Do I know this for fact? No. Could it be true? Yes.

It is a FACT that objects DO fall to the ground. It is a fact that we ALL die.

This is ridiculously stupid quit trying to run in circles Swami.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: The Power of Swami! [Re: deafpanda]
    #3618449 - 01/12/05 04:13 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

This was not started with a "why people believe" discussion in mind, but more of "an atheist with strong self belief can do ANYTHING a believer in God can do".

If this is true, then what is the difference in this life? If this is not true, then what task can a believer accomplish that an atheist could not?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: The Power of Swami! [Re: ld50negative1]
    #3618463 - 01/12/05 04:15 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

It is a FACT that objects DO fall to the ground.

*Swami releases a helium balloon*


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: The Power of Swami! [Re: ld50negative1]
    #3618468 - 01/12/05 04:16 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ld50negative1 said:
It is a FACT that objects DO fall to the ground. It is a fact that we ALL die.

This is ridiculously stupid quit trying to run in circles Swami.




The 'S' in Swami stands for sarcastic, not serious.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineld50negative1
lethal dosage

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 821
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: The Power of Swami! [Re: Swami]
    #3618484 - 01/12/05 04:18 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
It is a FACT that objects DO fall to the ground.

*Swami releases a helium balloon*




Did I say ALL objects in ALL situations? no.

But guess what? All humans in ALL forms die.  :eek:

If Swami is ALWAYS sarcastic then why in the hell would anyone basically "worship" him because of his "myth busting". I find alot of his arguments amusing more than anything to put any money on.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAldous
enthusiast
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/20/99
Posts: 894
Loc: inside my skull
Last seen: 4 days, 5 hours
Re: The Power of Swami! [Re: Swami]
    #3618496 - 01/12/05 04:20 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Guy #1 lost in the wilderness after a plane crash: without God's help, I would have never found the strength to find my way back.

Guy #2 lost in the wilderness after a plane crash: I have always had faith in my ability to survive. When I set my mind to do a task, I will finish it no matter what.


Is there as much contradiction in this as you think there is?

Once again, let me go back to good ole Jung. To him, both those statements are just the same. God and the Self are just one, and everyone calls it the name of their choice, because there is just no way to know if there exists an external divine presence. Religious experience, on the other hand, has been proven to exist, but it's up to you to choose if it means contact with God or contact with the Self (which includes the personal and the collective unconscious, among other things; it's the totality of your personality, and it's way larger than your ego (well, maybe just not YOURS, Swami :wink: )). Meeting God/Self is a tremendous experience that can be achieved through religious practice, entheogens,... all kinds of things that can alter consciousness. Some people are more in need of contact with the Self than others, for some it is always there in a less dramatic fashion. But maybe believing in God or in oneself is ultimately just not THAT different...

Thoughts?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineTwirling
Barred Spiral
Male

Registered: 02/03/03
Posts: 2,468
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: The Power of Swami! [Re: ld50negative1]
    #3618525 - 01/12/05 04:24 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I agree about how some people feel the need to believe in a "higher power" to feel as if they are strong enough to do something.

And I think it's evolved that way culturally. Societies which believed in a higher power being on their side probably had a better chance of survival since it's a matter of self-fullfilling prophecy.

The downside is that some people believe so strongly in it that they don't put any effort into what they want to accomplish and expect a "God" to do it for them. Then they get angery at "God" when it doesn't come through.


It's interesting, one of the few times I did mushrooms I expected to have a lot of answers about theological questions to come up. At that time in my life, I was living in hope of destiny saving me from having little ways to accomplish what my dreams were. My personal illusion of having some kind of destiny which will fullfill my dreams was because I was too afraid to try myself. To be blunt, I got my ass kicked. That illusion was blown apart as I realized how many people are born into horrible, awful conditions they have no control over. So many people in the world have lived a miserable life without "deserving" it. Why should a "God" hand me my dreams when so many people in the world can't get the basics? I feel entitled to clean water because it's readily available on tap, but that's not even an option in many places.


It was an incrediably painful experience. Ironically, I prayed to every deity out there even though I didn't believe in any of them. I just wanted the pain to end. After awhile, I decided to try and sleep it through and as I was starting to drift off, I suddendly sobered up out of nowhere.

I was left fragile and scared. I felt so shattered. The next day I went to work and saw how amazing it is that we're able to do as much as we can considering how tough life can be. I started to apperiate that I had the ability to positively affect my own destiny instead of fearing it.

I subconsciously looked to mushrooms as my higher power. Psilocybin and my brain gave me exactly what I needed.... even if "they" didn't do it as some kind of deity or supernatural being.


--------------------
The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: The Power of Swami! [Re: Aldous]
    #3618572 - 01/12/05 04:32 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Here you are interchanging the words "God" with "Self". Seems you are playing with labels. I am talking about the small "self", not any kind of "ground of being" mysticism.

I was once stranded in the desert when my car being towed came off the hitch. I waited for hours with not a car in sight. Finally I decided I had to do something. I picked up the trailer with the car still on it and dropped it on the hitch. My hands were cut and bleeding and I figure I conservatively pulled about 500 pounds (I weighed about 170 pounds). That is faith in self (not Self).

There was a recent TV show featuring young boxing hopefuls. The guy that won the prize money and contract said it was thanks to Jesus (didn't know he was a fight fan!). Another boxer said he would win because Allah willed it. When he lost, it was Allah's will that he choose another path. I would contend that the fighter with the best genetics, training and understanding to the sport will win and that no deity is involved.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineskystone
stop the motion
Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 465
Loc: state,country,etc.
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: The Power of Swami! [Re: Twirling]
    #3618604 - 01/12/05 04:37 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

What is important in the process of believing is not who will do it,
but that fact that it will be done.

If an atheist believes he will survive in the jungle because
of his abilities, and a god-believer that he is going to survive because of god, it's the same.

Because the parts "because of his abilities" and "because of god"
are not important, you could put anything on this place.

What is important is that both of them believe they are going to survive for whatever reason.

Both of them have thier own religion, and both of them find use in it.

but if you analize it a bit deeper, both beliefs are the same..

Atheist believes he is strong enough for it, and that every lush environment has something to eat and dring etc.

The one that believes in god, believes that god will help him,
but how can god help him? By creating a universe in wich there
is a chance for him.

So it's kind of the same thing.


--------------------
"..and suddenly it began to rain"


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineld50negative1
lethal dosage

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 821
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: The Power of Swami! [Re: Twirling]
    #3618643 - 01/12/05 04:41 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

What I'm getting from all this is that those that don't believe in (THE) God are the ones that are looking to use God as a crutch. If they ever did try to approach Christ/God with selfishness they aren't going to get an answer. Is there anything wrong with death to self? If a person gives death to self and walks "the path" through the Spirit then they are NOT going to have shattered, torn, or (whatever you are talking about), strength/confidence. This is why it is not simply a crutch.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: The Power of Swami! [Re: skystone]
    #3618657 - 01/12/05 04:42 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I think the faith in God version is better because it empowers a person while bypassing the role of the ego. Self-determinism can become ego-centric and result in unhappiness. True belief in God can be an empowerment of the higher self.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineld50negative1
lethal dosage

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 821
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: The Power of Swami! [Re: ld50negative1]
    #3618679 - 01/12/05 04:44 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


There was a recent TV show featuring young boxing hopefuls. The guy that won the prize money and contract said it was thanks to Jesus (didn't know he was a fight fan!). Another boxer said he would win because Allah willed it. When he lost, it was Allah's will that he choose another path. I would contend that the fighter with the best genetics, training and understanding to the sport will win and that no deity is involved.





? I don't get the purpose of the story as it relates to the orginal idea of this thread... but...

Swami, no one ever said that you can't do crazy things like that without faith in God.

It's not about surviving physically, it's about overcoming the shit that this world throws at a Christian... it has never been about making money, winning a prize, picking up a 10000 lb trailer, making good grades.... it's about doing what is right... it's about keeping the faith when people like you try to think my faith away


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Swama New Year = Resolution or Revolution?
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
LunarEclipse 4,639 110 01/04/05 06:24 AM
by Asante
* Swami's Tarot Card Experience Swami 748 7 11/22/02 12:17 AM
by GoBlue!
* The Swami Swami Three Month Challenge
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Swami 3,958 78 09/09/04 02:17 PM
by ElfWizard
* Swami/Shroomism relations
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Learyfan 4,384 68 03/20/02 09:32 PM
by Swami
* The anti-Swami thread.
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
Psychoactive1984 4,261 117 05/26/05 03:58 PM
by MAIA
* Faith and healing
( 1 2 all )
Swami 1,185 21 01/13/05 10:19 AM
by skystone
* Co-creating the Swami Persona
( 1 2 all )
Swami 1,907 25 03/27/05 04:02 AM
by uriahchase
* FAITH in YOURSELF, and SHINING BRIGHT..... =) eMotionALLmotion 597 3 03/24/05 01:59 AM
by dr0mni

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Diploid, Jokeshopbeard, DividedQuantum
2,661 topic views. 0 members, 5 guests and 6 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Avalon Magic Plants
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.1 seconds spending 0.003 seconds on 16 queries.