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OfflineMixomatosis
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Logic and metaphysics
    #3612700 - 01/11/05 02:45 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Logically you can explain any one thing, but when you start to apply what you've already established in your logical paradigm to other things, you start to find inconsistencies. It's impossible to reconcile the differences among all things with logic.. try to logically explain everything in one huge consistent super theory and you'll fail.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Logic and metaphysics [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3612787 - 01/11/05 03:05 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Isn't trying, rather easy?

It is, at, it is, not.

:grin: :thumbup: :heart:


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Disclaimer!?


Edited by Gomp (01/11/05 03:13 PM)


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Logic and metaphysics [Re: Gomp]
    #3612869 - 01/11/05 03:20 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

well, within a system of existance you can't

but take non-existance, which cannot be percieved as it is without a perception. I mean true void, true nothingness...

Nothingness knows nothing. Therefore it is entirely and eternally self aware.

Nothingness seeks nothing, and is therefore eternally self-fulfilled.

Logic is a form of pattern recognition that arises from our continual experience of existance. However, often times the roles are reversed, and logic seeks to alter experience in accord with past recognized patterns. There is almost a struggle to stay above insanity, to remain non-delusional to our past memories of what delusional even is.

And so, obviously logic is incomplete. Not only are humans incapable of deriving a logic system that functions to explain all of existance (as we are a part of existance itself), but often times what seems logical only seems that way on the basis of its past existance (hard to explain :/).

It's like the meaning of life. We exist within the grand "meaning" of existance, what appears infinite to our perception, and thereofre that "meaning" cannot equally exist within us. But even this relies on some assumptions of logic itself, such as mind existing within material rather than vice versa.

It's just an infinite sea of dots, each extrapolating their interpretations of the memories of the past experiences of their existence into some form of subjective meaning.

So, the answer lies in the self-aware and self-fulfilled void. Referred also as the Tao, it cannot be known as knowledge is only an abstraction of experience.

One can loop through these thoughts for a looong time without finding absolute footing to stand on (which is the goal of such super theories, which I believe to be sought for in vain, seeking outside for what is eternally internal)

sorry, ramble ramble :frown:


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Logic and metaphysics [Re: deff]
    #3612915 - 01/11/05 03:30 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Logic is what you think it is.
That is how logical, logic really is.


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Disclaimer!?


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Logic and metaphysics [Re: Gomp]
    #3613127 - 01/11/05 04:28 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

You can only go so far with logic, reasoning and intelect. Sooner or later you have to go beyond concept to really experience how things are in relation to the universe, our minds and metaphysics.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Logic and metaphysics [Re: Sinbad]
    #3613553 - 01/11/05 06:00 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

As far as I know, one cannot experience the "metaphysical" without experiencing the physical. However, it is common to experience the physical without the "metaphysical".

Now, do I need metaphysics to survive?
Is metaphysics still useful if it doesn't affect my survival?


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Logic and metaphysics [Re: Sclorch]
    #3613614 - 01/11/05 06:15 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

If one has a physical body, then one is constantly experiencing the physical.

Physical survival is related to your bodily needs. But Metaphyics is a pretty vast subject, so i couldnt comment on whether it would be helpful for your survival without knowing your complete physical,psycological,environmental,emotional,spiritual circumstances.

So i guess you'll have to answer that question for yourself.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Logic and metaphysics [Re: Sclorch]
    #3613625 - 01/11/05 06:17 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Well if your invisible silver cord is cut, you are ka-putt!


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: Logic and metaphysics [Re: Sclorch]
    #3614820 - 01/11/05 11:11 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Sclorch said:

Now, do I need metaphysics to survive?
Is metaphysics still useful if it doesn't affect my survival?




Metaphysics could be useful for your survival in two ways.

1) If there is a metaphysical self, immaterial soul, which can survive or perish.

and/ or

2) If there is a cause and effect relationship between physical and metaphysical realities, whereby a metaphysical thing could help or harm the physical self.

If an immaterial metaphysical realm of being exists, then it could not be observed with the senses; the only way the apprehend this realm of being would be through the use of reason; reason requires logic.

If this immaterial/spiritual/metaphysical realm of being exists, then the one who does not see it through the eye of reason, who instead relies only on his faculties of sensation and understanding, is like a man with one eye, incapable of depth perception. The one who uses his reason to discern the deeper metaphysical nature of things
sees both with his physical eyes and with his faculty of reason; this stereo vision allows him to know the deeper meaning of things.

Of course the man with two eyes could never explain to the man with one eye the nature of this deeper field of vision, and likewise the one who is blinded by ignorance or distrust of logic cannot be shown that the immaterial metaphysical realm exists. In the words of Morpheus "You have to see it for yourself."


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Logic and metaphysics [Re: shroomydan]
    #3614857 - 01/11/05 11:21 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

"Well if your invisible silver cord is cut, you are ka-putt!"
If it is invisible how do they know it is silver?


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Registered: 10/28/03
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Re: Logic and metaphysics [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3615821 - 01/12/05 02:05 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

If it is invisible how do they know it is silver?
ooooo Swami gets burned! Slowing down a little in your old age? Sounds like you need some of that mystical life force... Qi energy!


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OfflineZekebomb
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Registered: 08/24/03
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Re: Logic and metaphysics [Re: deff]
    #3615958 - 01/12/05 02:46 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

deff said:
Nothingness knows nothing. Therefore it is entirely and eternally self aware.

Nothingness seeks nothing, and is therefore eternally self-fulfilled.




this seems like word-play to me. as in, the word 'nothing' has a changing meaning. Does Nothingness know nothing, or does it not know anything?

can anyone be a proponent of this view and try explaining to me, in a way where all the words used have actual relevant meanings?


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: Logic and metaphysics [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3615961 - 01/12/05 02:47 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

hey are you stoned? let's get stoned right now. Lemme know when you got your bake on.


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Logic and metaphysics [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3615969 - 01/12/05 02:49 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

okay


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: Logic and metaphysics [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3615982 - 01/12/05 02:51 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

and.. done


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Logic and metaphysics [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3615987 - 01/12/05 02:52 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

the more you learn about any one thing, the more it breaks down into paradoxes and inconsistencies. It's like a spectrum, you can learn anything you want in the middle, but the ends are capped off by paradoxes, which have signs saying "abandon all hope ye who enter here" and "here there be dragons"

okay, I'm stoned now


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: Logic and metaphysics [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3615998 - 01/12/05 02:55 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

dont bogart that shit ; )


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Logic and metaphysics [Re: fresh313]
    #3616006 - 01/12/05 02:56 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

bogart THIS


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: Logic and metaphysics [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3616011 - 01/12/05 02:57 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

ill bogart my mescaline in a second here


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Logic and metaphysics [Re: fresh313]
    #3616031 - 01/12/05 03:02 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

that's okay, cause I'll bogart my masculine over HERE in a lot more than a second


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