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Offlinedr0mni
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The Sickness may bring us health
    #3611924 - 01/11/05 11:33 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

A few years ago I was struggling with (and still do every once in a while) recurring homicidal urges which I called The Sickness. I looked around at the world and saw people dying, murdering, and raping. I saw that these atrocities were inherent in our human nature and were never going to go away. So I embraced it. I learned to see the beauty in violence and death and let these urges grow inside me. I saw incredible profundity in the moment in which a person would end the life of another being with which it shared a unified consciousness, like some sort of masterbatory, masochistic suicide. Losing control and allowing forces of which they cannot understand act through them to create these moments.

At the time I was in a very dysfunctional, mentally abusive long distance relationship with a certifiably psychotic girl who was much older than me. That relationship ended pretty dramatically, but I soon found a new (normal) girl with whom I fell in love with and slowly built a healthy relationship. I still struggled with these compulsions, though. I laid in bed with my love and prayed to god that no one would do to her what I wanted to do to others. I eventually had to realize my obsession and kidnapped and killed a dog. It scared me. I saw a very ugly part of myself in that animals brains and ran away, confused and lost.

This all started to come to an end for me when I gave her mushrooms for the first time. We laid in a pitch-black room on the floor. I told her to quiet her thoughts and allow the universe to come into her mind and body. She felt God and was awed, but at the same time overwhelmed. She began crying and clinging to what she had always known and believed in. This went on for a few hours, but at some point she said, "... how can people treat each other so horribly? How can people stab people behind churches and then just leave them..." This automatically made me think of the dog. I realized how wrong I was to perpetuate The Sickness by itself. While we cannot run away from our humanity we must also love each other and everything or else we will end up lost and confused. I stopped. I felt renewed and spiritual and pure the next day and vowed to change my ways.

This is where my post becomes relevent...

I heard someone on a talk radio say, a while back, that Jesus allowed himself to be crucified so that he could have a near death experiance, to become one with God, and to show us all not to fear death. I then realized that it was The Sickness that caused the angry mob to murder the saint. The hate, fear, and ignorance of humanity culminated into this one moment where one conscious being killed another and created a union with God. It was The Sickness that opened the gates of heaven. Jesus knew this and let it happen, loving his killers the whole way through. When I killed the dog, it didn't resist. It let me drag it by it's collar into the woods without making a sound. It looked into my eyes while I was taking practice swings at its head with a crowbar and didn't flinch, fear, or make a sound until steel met skull.

Afterwards I knew that the dog had become an angel and I felt that it was watching over me. Like a saint it loved me despite what I had done to it. I felt it guiding me back to the path, just like jesus, and buddha, and Mohammed, etc.

I still feel those urges sometimes, but I have seen where they lead to. I have learned that life is both good and evil and that it must be balanced. I may not be able to stop the countless rapes that occur daily, but what I can do is make sweet, pure love to my girlfriend. To love her and as many people as i can. But I will always know that The Sickness plays some integral, fucked up part in Gods plan and that we can't blame all things evil on what we think of as the devil or satan and wish them to be gone.

I hope that by sharing my experiance others may learn more about the nature of things and that you don't judge me for my past actions.

Thank you,
Dr. 0mni


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Sickness may bring us health [Re: dr0mni]
    #3612034 - 01/11/05 12:07 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

the sickness is part of the mud
a disorganized and messy soup
nothing to be proud of in it, though such mud could be used to nourish plants.

what you had (the obsession abut killing) was a natural psychological reaction to the chaos around us but it does not belong, even with glorification, in any healthy cosmology, those valid experiences are now baggage. I really want you to see that you do not need to turn baggage into credentials, just leave them as they are.

you will find ways to accommodate the mud, while focussing on cultivating more human values.


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: The Sickness may bring us health [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3612565 - 01/11/05 02:16 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I don't think of my experiences as baggage or credentials. They simply happened as they did. We all learn from each one of our experiences.

I didn't want this topic to be about my problems, I am fully capable of dealing with them. I want to discuss the paradoxal nature of god and how it can be seen in the story of the crucifixion. I think that this is one of the most important aspects of the story which most often is over looked. Without hate, fear, and ignorance, this glorious event could not have taken place. I think that when they say that the gates of heaven were opened they are actually talking about this paradox which reveals the nature of god and humans alike and the near death experiance that jesus had.

I think that jesus was a very wise man whose words have been incredibly misunderstood. He was not the one and only son of god. we are all the children of god. He tried to show the people, but the ideas of monotheism and messiahs were too deeply engraved into their understanding of reality. That is why he told his disciples not to tell people that he was the messiah.

I am not saying that violence is the key to salvation, I'm just saying that it's interesting to see how much of a paradox it is. The key to understanding god and reality is to know that it is self contradicting.


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Offlinegoob
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Re: The Sickness may bring us health [Re: dr0mni]
    #3612593 - 01/11/05 02:22 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

the crucifixion-

I'm probably goona get bombed for this, but consider the cruxifiction; a guy carries wood, a lot of it, and when he's pierced out flows water.

Maybe Jesus didn't carry enough wood and water to appease the god's that be?

Wood & water...cruxifix + holy water?
Everyone got there wood & water with them? If not then maybe we'd better make a point of fetching wood and carrying water everyday. no-kidding.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Sickness may bring us health [Re: goob]
    #3612646 - 01/11/05 02:33 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

so if this is not about the sickness that may bring us health, and is instead about the prime errors in Christianity:

really the whole pierced god man thing is an absolute travesty
and the theory that he would have wanted an NDE is equally bizzare.

in such a case we are not looking just at one person's baggage but the baggage of all of chritianity.

I still really want you to see that you do not need to turn baggage into credentials, focussing on cultivating more human values is more health oriented.


that stuff about stigmata is sick


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Offlinegoob
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Re: The Sickness may bring us health [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3612960 - 01/11/05 03:42 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Christianity may have errors, nothing being perfect,
and cultivating human values probably would result in history not repeating itself.

If history doesn't repeat itself then I suppose one could say that progress has been made.


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Offlinegoob
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Re: The Sickness may bring us health [Re: dr0mni]
    #3612992 - 01/11/05 03:49 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

dr0mni said:

I think that jesus was a very wise man whose words have been incredibly misunderstood. He was not the one and only son of god. we are all the children of god. He tried to show the people, but the ideas of monotheism and messiahs were too deeply engraved into their understanding of reality. That is why he told his disciples not to tell people that he was the messiah.






This is the crux of the matter I think;
Inciting the mob by claiming that Jesus claimed to be King of the Jews; "The fuel for any fire is in the gust of a Mighty Wind"; Who incited the 'inclination' of the crowd? and for Who's satisfaction?


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Offlinegoob
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Re: The Sickness may bring us health [Re: goob]
    #3617236 - 01/12/05 11:35 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Re: On Wood&Water

Wood brings warmth
Water quenches thirst.

My apologies if I upset anyone and/or if anyone rushed out to get a crucifix.

Care-givers provide warmth; entertainers quench thirst for entertainment.

I suspect the emphasis is on the unselfish part of providing warmth and quenching thirst; the little acts of charity above and beyond the call of duty.

The acts of charity without thought for reward.

Perhaps the most unselfish acts of wood & water are the anonymous ones; donations for playgrounds & land for recreational use, anonymous supporters of entertainment outlets such as these web-sites.

Hell & Damnation provides a cold comfort and I think the error many spiritualists fall into is being more interestede in lining their own pockets than in bringing warmth and quenching thirst for others.


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: The Sickness may bring us health [Re: goob]
    #3617345 - 01/12/05 12:11 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Okay, I don't know where the wood and water came into this, and I don't know why you guys think that this is about the errors of christianity. I'm talking about GOD as a paradox, not religion. I just know more about christianity so I am using it as an example, but what I'm talking about can be seen in almost all religions.

And I also don't understand why you keep talking about cultivating human values. If you look at our history, humans don't have a great track record of being "humane". If anything, being human includes every aspect of our nature including all the evil shit we do as well as all the good. Of course we have ideals that we want to acheive, but our nature is inevitable same as the nature of the universe. "Positive" and "negative" interact mutually to make existance possible. Things are the way they are because it works this way. This is the Great Natural Perfection. Good cannot exist w/o evil and vice versa. Instead of rejecting what brings us pain and suffering in hopes of living in eternal bliss we can understand that everything happens for a reason and that it's all going to be okay. Walk the middle path and find harmony with the universe.

Suffering can be a very beautiful part of our existance if you know how to look at it.

(it might help to know that when I say God, it is equivilent to me saying "the universe", "laws of physics", "existance", "fabric of reality", "that by which all that we know is made possible", etc.)


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Re: The Sickness may bring us health [Re: dr0mni]
    #3617401 - 01/12/05 12:30 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

dr0mni said: we can understand that everything happens for a reason and that it's all going to be okay.




why do you need to have things happenning for a reason?

if you were composing a shakesperean drama - yes!

if you want to dramatize what is happenning - yes.

for me, the extra layer is not a clarification. what happens is part of what is, all extending forth in time together.

not for a reason at all!


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: The Sickness may bring us health [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3622457 - 01/13/05 08:26 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

they aren't my reasons. The only reason that anything happens for is so that nature can reach equilibrium. The reasons are not ones of ideas but simply of cause and effect. It happened this way BECAUSE there were a specific set of pre-existing conditions that allowed for only one possible effect, which itself becomes conditions that allow for only one possible result. Everything is dependent on everything else, like a rubics cube. karma.

i'm sorry that it doesn't clarify anything for you. I just want to you understand how and why I see this self stabilizing paradox.


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Re: The Sickness may bring us health [Re: dr0mni]
    #3622563 - 01/13/05 10:07 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

usually the dependency in the system or the equilibrium, is a changing matrix.

usually no single reason is the cause for any detected change.

one needs an openended way of pointing out relationships and dependencies, and a kind of statistical way of looking at equilibria - sort of like fractals. when we find patterns we can adapt to them even anticipate them.

the sense of facing paradox is part of the excitement of ongoing creation which is beyond comprehension.

the life of every seed can be seen as a rubric's cube - the fingers are sun and season. then it is back as it was.


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: The Sickness may bring us health [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3622632 - 01/13/05 10:39 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

yes yes! exactly!

Fractals are really incredible. Not only are they beautiful, but they are logical. If you look at it closely you'll see that the universe is a fractal. Electrons orbit the nucleus as planets orbit the sun as the stars circle the galaxy in a curved sine wave. The universe expands and contracts as if it came from nowhere just as particles of matter and antimatter appear and anhialate each other in deep space.

The universe truly is infinite, not in literal size, but in degrees of fractalization. That's why I believe that God is a fractal, god is math, and god is why everything exists. "As is above, so is below" Jesus was talking about fractals! It's just that the world could never understand such a concept until we had mastered science and math.

the hardest part of applying these concepts to spirituality is logically proving that the world exists as a paradox (which is illogical). That is why the only thing we can do is HAVE FAITH. Have faith that even though it doesn't really make sense, it does.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Sickness may bring us health [Re: dr0mni]
    #3622773 - 01/13/05 11:40 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

dr0mni said:
...That is why the only thing we can do is HAVE FAITH. Have faith that even though it doesn't really make sense, it does.




I am glad you agree on some points of wonder, not sure about the habit of tacking on the statement above. I guess you could tack such a statement onto anything.

the not making sense part is the essence of paradox
it relates to chaos at the fractal interface too.

is it faith or suspension of rattling meaningless words (thoughts and misc. associations) off?

maybe faith is just stopping, because you are at the edge.

maybe some acceptance of limitations in our processing context - i.e. 3-d vs 2-d, 4-d vs 3-d, 5-d vs 4-d
sometimes when really besaged (salvia) I seem to understand paradox of 4-d but am then confronted with 5-d paradox, or I understand the fractal interface here yet see the next barrier which I don't understand at all.

like just breathing in the rush of the contact with the next unknowable thing.

is that faith, or is something else also tacked onto it?


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: The Sickness may bring us health [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3624363 - 01/13/05 07:00 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

"is that faith, or is something else also tacked onto it?"

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

"is it faith or suspension of rattling meaningless words (thoughts and misc. associations) off?"

Words always seem to complicate things. Whatever anyone says, be it wise or ignorant, you can pretty much always twist it and interpret it to mean whatever you want it to. I think that is why those answerless Zen riddles are so great. That is also why following scriptures almost always leads to some type of ignorance. Psychedelics are great because you can transcend words and become almost telepathic. Words and ideas are relative and essentially meaningless until we put meaning to them...

I've never had a real salvia trip. I've only smoked it and felt shifted, hollow (physically), and uncomfortable. I just assume that I'm not taking a high enough dose. I've heard about some intense salvia trips but have pretty much given up on trying.

Another important aspect of spirituality that is incredibly difficult for the average man to investigate is the hyperdemensional/electromagnetic energy fields that make up 99.99999% of the reality that we can't perceive directly with our senses. We know that there are frequencies of energy that we can't sense, but we have developed technology to detect and interact with them. How much else is there that we don't know about which can affect us just a much as large doses of radiation? Solar storms have been known to knock out electricity for entire cities! It's all very fascinating and complicated. I don't expect to figure any of that shit out for myself, but knowing that those possibilities exist make the Great Mystery a little less mysterious and a little less scary.

It helps to be a little agnostic when it comes to this sort of stuff...


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Re: The Sickness may bring us health [Re: dr0mni]
    #3624769 - 01/13/05 08:41 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

You stole and killed someone's dog?? I hope someone stabs the shit out of you, you sick motherfucker. you sick stupid motherfucker. Instead of killing other things how bout you kill your sick self and do the world a big favour? (don't pay attention to this post since it won't help anything but I had to get that out. killing helpless animals makes me sick to my stomach.)


--------------------
peace sells but whos buyin?


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Re: The Sickness may bring us health [Re: dr0mni]
    #3624851 - 01/13/05 08:55 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

dr0mni said:
A few years ago I was struggling with (and still do every once in a while) recurring homicidal urges which I called The Sickness. I looked around at the world and saw people dying, murdering, and raping. I saw that these atrocities were inherent in our human nature and were never going to go away. So I embraced it. I learned to see the beauty in violence and death and let these urges grow inside me. I saw incredible profundity in the moment in which a person would end the life of another being with which it shared a unified consciousness, like some sort of masterbatory, masochistic suicide. Losing control and allowing forces of which they cannot understand act through them to create these moments.

At the time I was in a very dysfunctional, mentally abusive long distance relationship with a certifiably psychotic girl who was much older than me. That relationship ended pretty dramatically, but I soon found a new (normal) girl with whom I fell in love with and slowly built a healthy relationship. I still struggled with these compulsions, though. I laid in bed with my love and prayed to god that no one would do to her what I wanted to do to others. I eventually had to realize my obsession and kidnapped and killed a dog. It scared me. I saw a very ugly part of myself in that animals brains and ran away, confused and lost.

This all started to come to an end for me when I gave her mushrooms for the first time. We laid in a pitch-black room on the floor. I told her to quiet her thoughts and allow the universe to come into her mind and body. She felt God and was awed, but at the same time overwhelmed. She began crying and clinging to what she had always known and believed in. This went on for a few hours, but at some point she said, "... how can people treat each other so horribly? How can people stab people behind churches and then just leave them..." This automatically made me think of the dog. I realized how wrong I was to perpetuate The Sickness by itself. While we cannot run away from our humanity we must also love each other and everything or else we will end up lost and confused. I stopped. I felt renewed and spiritual and pure the next day and vowed to change my ways.

This is where my post becomes relevent...

I heard someone on a talk radio say, a while back, that Jesus allowed himself to be crucified so that he could have a near death experiance, to become one with God, and to show us all not to fear death. I then realized that it was The Sickness that caused the angry mob to murder the saint. The hate, fear, and ignorance of humanity culminated into this one moment where one conscious being killed another and created a union with God. It was The Sickness that opened the gates of heaven. Jesus knew this and let it happen, loving his killers the whole way through. When I killed the dog, it didn't resist. It let me drag it by it's collar into the woods without making a sound. It looked into my eyes while I was taking practice swings at its head with a crowbar and didn't flinch, fear, or make a sound until steel met skull.

Afterwards I knew that the dog had become an angel and I felt that it was watching over me. Like a saint it loved me despite what I had done to it. I felt it guiding me back to the path, just like jesus, and buddha, and Mohammed, etc.

I still feel those urges sometimes, but I have seen where they lead to. I have learned that life is both good and evil and that it must be balanced. I may not be able to stop the countless rapes that occur daily, but what I can do is make sweet, pure love to my girlfriend. To love her and as many people as i can. But I will always know that The Sickness plays some integral, fucked up part in Gods plan and that we can't blame all things evil on what we think of as the devil or satan and wish them to be gone.

I hope that by sharing my experiance others may learn more about the nature of things and that you don't judge me for my past actions.

Thank you,
Dr. 0mni




You always have a choice to do things or not.
You have a god inside of you and an animal, a beast. Most of the time
you are in between the two, but you can be either by choice.
You killed that dog because you chose to do it. You accesed that
animal part in you.
And while you think and rethink your life, the dog lays dead


--------------------
"..and suddenly it began to rain"


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: The Sickness may bring us health [Re: skystone]
    #3627517 - 01/14/05 08:44 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

i know. I was fucking crazy. I expect that kind of reaction. But you should know that I didn't enjoy it. I didn't get a thrill from it. It scared the shit out of me! It was a big wake up call.

Like I said, I don't want this topic to be about my problems. I've gotten over that phase and know how to control it now. I want to share what I've learned with everyone. That is why I made this post.


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