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Offlinefranco_on
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Prophecy, I do not know
    #3609992 - 01/10/05 11:00 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I started reading a book but could not complete it. It appeared in my life as it should have (long story). I got 2/3 through and had to stop for some reason. I think I may have been scared. The book is 'The Celestine Prophecy'. Has anyone read it? I do not want to know the end. Just looking for general comintary, 'BS; or 'something to hold true'. , etc. Thanks.


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Have a safe journey through life,
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Offlineincubaby_421
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Re: Prophecy, I do not know [Re: franco_on]
    #3610863 - 01/11/05 02:19 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

whats it about??
i think im gonna buy it right now,
i need something to envoke thought in my stagnant domepiece.


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"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Re: Prophecy, I do not know [Re: franco_on]
    #3611613 - 01/11/05 08:53 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Beware books which espouse an entire worldview and theory of spirituality without citing any evidence for their claims.


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OfflineKamek
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Re: Prophecy, I do not know [Re: deafpanda]
    #3611657 - 01/11/05 09:25 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

i read it, thought it was a very nice read but some parts seemed like complete bullshit to me... I do believe there is something more that one can learn to perceive (permanently perceive) than what the average person is able to perceive right now... At the moment i am reading some Carlos Castaneda but I'm stuck and need to continue reading soon or ill be out of it...
screw it I'm going to continue reading right now...


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Prophecy, I do not know [Re: deafpanda]
    #3612178 - 01/11/05 12:56 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Deaf,

It's a fictional story. Since when does fiction have to be supported by evidence before it can be enjoyed as entertainment?

I'm glad it's not the case or we wouldn't have books like Star Wars and Green Eggs and Ham.



edit-typo


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Edited by gettinjiggywithit (01/11/05 01:16 PM)


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Offlinefranco_on
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Re: Prophecy, I do not know [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3615367 - 01/12/05 12:35 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Well the story is fictional, but it is used to create a philosophy of the world. It is sort of like 'The Wall' by Socrates but more new age. The view all has to do with coincidences. Very odd, had it's hay day back in the early 90's.

The author is James Redfield. You probably will not need to buy a copy, one should be appearing randomly by chance. That's how I got mine. Some friends introduced me to the idea of the book but did not have a copy. Then that weekend I went to my fathers place and found he received a copy as a gift, but did not want it due to being not his genre of read.

It is a bit of a lame story, but it is one of those philosophies that make sense when you are stoned.


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Have a safe journey through life,
Chef


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Re: Prophecy, I do not know [Re: franco_on]
    #3615644 - 01/12/05 01:19 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I read ALL of Redfields stuff as it started rolling hot off the press about 10 years ago. I fondly look back on it as a launching pad of sorts of the insane sanity that followed leading to where I am today and where the fuck that is I have no idea, but am much better off in every way then I use to be-life is good, real good!

It was on the best sellers list for over 10 months and was quickly published in dozens of languages, quite a wave it swept the world with. It was an exciting wave to be a part of, lots of buzz going on.

Anyway, my reply was to Deaf as he was suggesting that you not read the fictional book Celestine Prophecy before researching the supportive evidence for it. I found that amusing.

While I am here, I am curious what about the book is scaring you and why you stopped reading it? I remember awakening to recognizing synchronicities and it was a freaky cool new thing, but nothing scary. I'm just curious.

Sometimes, when we make leaps in awareness, the newness can be experienced as a potential threat of an unknown and fear can be experienced. Maybe for you, you are moving into a new place of awareness with it that is not at your comfort level and you are simply experiencing that. There is nothing to fear, just something to readjust too sort of like first day at a new job anxiety until you get the feel for it.

I love that adrenaline rush when I read stuff that freaks me out. It's been a while. I'm waiting for the next read that makes me go, what the fuuuuuuuuuuck? :whoa: I don't use drugs, I'm an information junkie.

:heartpump:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Prophecy, I do not know [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3616528 - 01/12/05 05:02 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

yeah that's a good feeling, the adrenaline. but I didn't get that off Celestine Prophecy. it was good up to a point, but when that point came it just kept galumphing along


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Offlinedeafpanda
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Re: Prophecy, I do not know [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3616793 - 01/12/05 07:27 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

It's a fictional story. Since when does fiction have to be supported by evidence before it can be enjoyed as entertainment?




It is a fictional story, but it is certainly trying to "convert" people to it's belief system. It is quite subtle sometimes, but it presents everything as fact and can be dangerously persuasive. One of my friends was rather swept away by it, until he realised the error of his ways.

It is, after all, just another piece of dogma.


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Re: Prophecy, I do not know [Re: deafpanda]
    #3616985 - 01/12/05 09:17 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I read it when it first came out.At that time i thought it was cool up to that point and then its like it took forever to finish.I dont remember much about now.


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Re: Prophecy, I do not know [Re: deafpanda]
    #3617079 - 01/12/05 10:21 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Deaf,

I think it was the way your reply started off with the word "beware" that got the chuckle out of me the most. Beware of what regarding that book? By all standards it's so tame it's now considered quite lame indeed.

Look out people, it might help you become more cognizant of paying attention to events throughout your waking day, oh the horror. I think he even used the words coincidences and didn't even get into synchronicity itself.

Here is what is silly, coincidences happen weather we give meaning to them or not. The other silly thing as that giving meaning to events in life is what we as humans do to move us along weather we read the book or not.

It's how we go about choosing and maintaining friends, jobs, hobbies, partners. Even for you guys, hooking up with a drunk hot chick at a bar might mean to you that you will get laid that night and the next sequence of events will probably be you buying her another drink. Putting $50 bucks down on a Lakers game means you might win some money and be moved to watch the game oooooooooooh mysterious be aware of this.

When not at work or sleeping what do we as humans do with ourselves? We get caught up into things, sometimes, swept away by them for a time, our social lives, sports, partying, television,families, and some by their work and literature fact or fiction. It's all a part of how we entertain and amuse ourselves waiting to die or avoiding death.

Sports are trying to convert you into believing in them and they may take your money by hosting stadium events or pay per view or gambling be aware be very aware.

What about Celestine's beliefs posed as fiction, any fiction that comes from imagination or ones personal experiences is so dangerous? Regarding Celestine, which were just some guys pretty harmless personal insights that read like an often boring adventure, you might become aware of meaningful connections with others and get emotional cooties from them?

Just putting this in perspective here. If you want to warn people about reading anything, let it be the Bible. Let the debates begin as I just opened Pandora's box.

Remember that women who drowned her children in the bath tub? Her mom and brother were on Larry King Live last night. They said she was a trouble free kid, very moralistic and conservative very intelligent class valedictorian and a loving stay at home mom. They noticed her stated to change after her marriage to her fundamental christian husband. They said it got worse after her husband started bringing this preacher guy around who talked incessantly about fearing hell, going to hell and the devil.

She said she had to drown her kids because the devil was tormenting her with bad thoughts and that the devil told her, if she did not drown her children he would torment them too and it was the only way to save them from him.

I personally thin that book has done more damage to the human psyche then any other book published, regardless of how much good it has also done people by their claims and I'm sure it has helped many "see the light on the path of self rightiousness to God".

It spawned a lot of childhood damage to my psyche being raised as a kid. I was told if I didn't listen and behave by my grandmother that I would be thrown into a pit of fire in the church and she called me and my siblings gornikas, Italian for devil with horns. In essense, my catholic grandmother, rosary always in hand, was calling me and my siblings evil devils, because we were just playing in her tiny house with normal exuberant child energy and her nerves couldn't handle it. Lovely thoughts to put in the head of a developing child.

It was my leap over that and into spirituality new agey moving to meta physics and cosmology and Christ/cosmic consciousness that helped me to heal from the beliefs of Catholicism as grown adults converted me into as a child.

Lets put this into perspective. How many people have died over the new age waves? Swami will never let us forget heavens gate, I think it was 11 people. How many killed themselves or others over messages in metal music?

Now, how many have been killed and allowed themselves to be killed over the Bible in religious wars? More then any of us even know.

The massage in Celestine was quite benevolent and encouraged peace making through the highlighting of different power struggle faces we put on, remember that stuff in it? That's why i got the work book back when, it was good and it helped me recognize my own power struggling patterns. Oh ya, it covered that explaining how we subconsciously look to take energy from others to feel more powerful.

That's a pretty constructive message to help one become aware of. I forgot all about that part till now.

Well, I'm done offering my bigger picture perspective on this.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Re: Prophecy, I do not know [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3617146 - 01/12/05 10:51 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I think it was the way your reply started off with the word "beware" that got the chuckle out of me the most. Beware of what regarding that book? By all standards it's so tame it's now considered quite lame indeed.




Beware was a strong word to use, what I was talking about is this: I read the book when I was younger, and it all seemed so true and I almost believed it. It is quite seductive.

Quote:

Look out people, it might help you become more cognizant of paying attention to events throughout your waking day, oh the horror.




I'm not sure what you mean by this...I can't remember anything about paying more attention in the book. It's been a while, though.

Quote:

Sports are trying to convert you into believing in them




Well, sort of. Everything is, in a way, most of all advertising. You SHOULD beware. The fact is, a very large amount of people are influenced by advertising, which is shocking.

Quote:

What about Celestine's beliefs posed as fiction, any fiction that comes from imagination or ones personal experiences is so dangerous?




No, any fiction that is written with the intent of converting people to a cause is propoganda, and can be dangerous sometimes.

Quote:

Regarding Celestine, which were just some guys pretty harmless personal insights that read like an often boring adventure, you might become aware of meaningful connections with others and get emotional cooties from them?




I think we all have meaningful connections with others. I don't think this book makes you notice these connections any more or anything. They are harmless personal "insights", but they amount to a religion, they are supported only be dogma, and thus should be handled accordingly.

Quote:

Just putting this in perspective here. If you want to warn people about reading anything, let it be the Bible




I totally agree. I was being harsh on the Celestine Prophecy not because of its content, which is, as you say "quite benevolent", and is quite psychologically revealing in places (the "power struggling patterns"). I was being harsh because of the form of the book. It is another bible, another qu'ran, and while the Celestine Prophecy may not have hurt anyone (I expect it probably hasn't, it may even have helped people), books of the same type (the bible for instance) most certainly have.

I feel that the intention behind the book was good, but it potentially adds to the problem of people not questioning before they believe.


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Re: Prophecy, I do not know [Re: deafpanda]
    #3617309 - 01/12/05 11:58 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Why do you think in many cases people don't question all they believe? I think its because, they want to believe it because it makes them feel good, like choosing to eat chocolate cake. It's a part of the choice making process we as humans engage in. Sometimes, I think not questioning everything is what gives life a sense of mystery and adventure as in "what will happen if I put a blind fold on and stick my hand in box number 3".

I think people do it because they are bored here and in existence.

Think it about, we live for eternity in the heart of the one love where all is well safe and secure. Wheres the excitement in that? So we create these realms and realities where things can appear to be not so secure or known and the grand adventure begins.

If we knew without a doubt that everything we did was totally safe, secure and good for us, that there was NO wrong choice to make then what?

Is it not fun to strategise and calculate and weigh things out, as if we don't know the outcome? hmmmm do I go left or right? What is over there, its sort of dark? I think I can or I think it is, hm lets see if its soo.

I think people like to believe in a lot that is not proven because its where adventure into the great unknown lies. I think people do it out of boredom. 70 years here what is one to do with themselves but get swept away into this and that or are we to just eat sleep and produce gas and body order?

Really with this awakening that is all the buzz and everyone getting on their fancy little in sighting abilities, well, that old game is dying out in place of a new one. It's called what can I create and appreciate?

I was thinking about what you said about advertisements

I wrote elsewhere about the way to get more is to just create more space within your existing space, like opening a void for nature to fill.

It dawned on me that's what these advertisers do to fill there pockets with money. Your cruising along in life thinking everything is A-Okay and then, you are told you have a void in your life, you are not sleeping enough, your pecker is not hard long enough, your body is not getting enough nutrition, your financial advisor is not performing for you yada yada and then if people believe in this void they go to fill it and the sellers of the products make money.

Maybe peoples lives are being expanded and enriched for the better too sometimes and sometimes they get burnt and left with sludge in their void. Where the heck am I going with this um, oh ya, in a way, its more about watching where we have unfulfilled voids or how others can get us to think we do or where we create them for ourselves and being mindful of it.

They are in a way promoting lack consciousness to an extreme. "You are living in lack of what could be. You don't have enough of liefs good and bad crap, you need more and we have it don't ya want it yes you do yes you look at that pretty girl in the ad you want her too do you feel the wanting and now want our product with it.

It's sort of funny like a warped creating machine driven by supply and demand where by only we create the demand in the first place then we bitch about it.

Fuck it things are much better when you put the reverse spin on it and instead of being led around by the demands life creates for you, we fair better when we begin to command our own existence as we see fit to be what we want it to be. Shut out the external noise for sure and the whole game changes.

There's no stopping creation but it is worthy to ask of yourself who is creating your reality for you and how its being done.

I'm lost in a billion thoughts now so I'll wrap this up. One more question to anyone.

Some read that book and experienced 'something" and some read it and "nothing".

I bought a certain book I thought would deliver me the world and I read it and it was flat. What a disappointment. two years later, I picked it up again started reading and HOLY shit it game so alive with meaning and relevance and it blew me away, got those freaky chills and had to put it down only to come back for more.

Why do books do that? I guessed it was because during those two years, i must of racked up some experiences that gave the words personal meaning to me where before, it wasn't possible. Maybe the first read planted the seeds for those experiences?

Maybe Celestine reads flat and nothing happens for some because they already picked it up elsewhere the book is so old and it reads like old news and maybe if some who read it flat picked it up again, they may experience what all the buzz was about.

Whats up with that?


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Re: Prophecy, I do not know [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3617347 - 01/12/05 12:12 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

, I think not questioning everything is what gives life a sense of mystery and adventure




I get this sense of mystery from not really knowing what the hell life is all about.  I don't think that it would be more exciting for me to have a specific belief chosen on a whim.

Quote:

They are in a way promoting lack consciousness to an extreme. "You are living in lack of what could be. You don't have enough of liefs good and bad crap, you need more and we have it don't ya want it yes you do yes you look at that pretty girl in the ad you want her too do you feel the wanting and now want our product with it.




Yup, and I'm sure you can see this is the same as religious dogma.

Quote:

we create the demand in the first place then we bitch about it.




That's economics in a nutshell for you :wink:

To summarise, some people believe without questioning and cause no harm to themselves or others.  Other people believe without questioning and get dangerous ideas which do harm themselves and others.  I disagree with the practise of not questioning beliefs, but acknowledge that it can be benign in some cases (santa claus is one).


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Re: Prophecy, I do not know [Re: deafpanda]
    #3617491 - 01/12/05 12:58 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, as I said, the one mom who started believing in hell and the devil became a danger and killed her kids. A belief in Santa is just for harmless fun entertainment and amusement.

On the flip side, some who believe in hell and the devil become less of a danger because they now fear eternal damnation and maybe some who believe in high and mighty spiritual ideals can become an elitists power tripper and do damage.

Sooooo does it really come down to gray matter?

For sure with the other part, "You do not have enough God in your life, we do here at The church of Mormon" those commercials are funny and I dislike dogma as well and I will be the first to say spirituality is FULL of it, however, I haven't encountered any when you get to the cosmic consciousness stuff that is beyond limitation and duality. I guess that why I like hanging out there as much as possible but it's difficult to stay or be there when you need or want to relate to the masses playing in duality and limitation and lack.

I question everything and put it to my own experiential tests before I adopt beliefs. if I have a beliefs, I have supporting experiences really, my beliefs are more like theories because they are all subject to change as new information and experience comes into play, gotta keep it all fluid, no walls or concrete structures,as they are doomed to crumble and fall anyway.

"multi perspecting today" and yes, I certainly presented the stuff on beliefs ass backwards in the part about where the sense of mystery and adventure comes from. beliefs to me, concrete crap are a part of duality made of distorted light which creates illusions of what is.

Regarding Celestine, to me, like the stuff about power struggles, it was dispelling the mystery and I didn't mean to equate that with a belief, how can it be one? it's more of an observable experiential thing you become aware of to break you out of the spell.

For example, Jane and John wake up and start arguing over who's favorite coffee goes into the machine, John wants french Roast and Jane wants hazelnut. They fucking fight and bicker over who got theirs yesterday, why doesn't john make more money to buy his own coffee pot and whose coffee taste better and so on. It's not about the coffee or Johns income.

The fight is a power struggle for energy to get them through the day because they woke up tired and drained and developed a system of first becoming dependent on energy from each other and now use each other as their source for it. They are trying to grab what they can from the other to help launch their morning.

Jane wins the argument by calling John an unrefined slob who makes less money then her and remind him that she brought the coffee pot into the relationship in the first place.

Jane goes off to work with a powered pep in her step and John leaves for work dragging ass and with a tail between his legs.

And these are two people who are supposed to love and care about one another? Another delusion they live in, the mystery and adventure of it all.

To me, realizing the energy play behind the scenes is what breaks us from illusive duality beliefs. I was merely talking about why I think people like to hold duality beliefs of right and wrong, dogma Crap, because I think they like living in the distortion of light the illusion because it is mysterious. "Why did the garbage man throw my cans in the street? He must hate me" and a drama is born and off they go into the grand adventure of living with a vengeful garbage man.

Life is funny, note my new sig

edit -typo


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Edited by gettinjiggywithit (01/12/05 01:02 PM)


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Re: Prophecy, I do not know [Re: franco_on]
    #3618020 - 01/12/05 03:02 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

The Celestine Prophecy mirrors the Castaneda Books but Castaneda was much more fascinating. The CP follows a journey to an invisible realm where the people disappear. In the Don Juan books the students also disappear near the end of the original series, into the abyss with Don juan. This mirrors the Crowley/Golden dawn crossing the Abyss to reintegrate as the Master of the Temple. There's nothing necessarily new in the CP. Maybe research the roots and see what's what. Castaneda rocks.


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