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OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Level 5 [Re: mecreateme]
    #3632985 - 01/15/05 10:59 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I think you guys are getting egoloss confused with total loss of reality and ego death. Ego loss is possible on low doses, or in meditation while sober. Level 5 as described as something that completely defies space, time, identity, and all physical reality is different.


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1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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Offlineswampthing
audioboy

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 375
Loc: SE Michigan
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
red bread for your rain colored coat hanger [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3633066 - 01/15/05 11:14 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

this is about people writing reports as lvl5, but after reading them,they dont sound lvl5.... so why are people debating a bunch of other shit? ...to each their own, get over it!

ya i agree with dividedsky,egoloss is common(it doesnt take much),like my limbs dont seem to be 'mine' and id rather not go by my birthname and blah blah blah i dont care if im wet and muddy! call me coleslaw!!


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peace with everystep


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Invisiblemecreateme
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Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 2,727
Loc: Memphrica
Re: red bread for your rain colored coat hanger [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3633615 - 01/16/05 01:19 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

No, sorry you are wrong, or are you right? In your mind you are right, in my mind you are wrong. I have eaten very high doses, up to nine dried grams, and I have been shown all there is to see, well enough to know I don't know anything. Yes all physical reality is different but not from what you are. You become the universe, like you rightly are, you are no longer differentiated into your human form. I agree it is easy to just forget who you are, that comes first for me. Then later, after hours of tripping in the peak of my trip, I dip into a level five state of ultimate oneness for about an hour or two. I have been able to achieve this same effect from lower doses, I just had to tune in on it, and you have to want it but most people don't like my sig says. Ego loss, a forgetting, is different from ego death if you ask me. In ego death there is absolutely no you, just the divine one that some call God, others call the Universe. Whatever you term it, it is all there is, was and ever will be. The Beatles say call it love. Whatever you do you just gotta let it be. :sun:

I think John Lilly uses the Guirdjeff system of altered consciousness and if anyone knows that, I was at a +3 :thumbup: as well as a -3. :thumbdown: Both are the highest forms of being in the Essense, or what you truly are: infinty. +3 is the desirable kind, where everything is full of absolute meaning, where everything is a divine message from the one. -3 is more like psychedelic hell, the void, it is the hell of your own making, you are your own worst enemy, everything is meaningless, out of contact with God. It is common to be in both of these at times in the trip. As happened to me, I had the mystical union with everything that was: "I don't know why but I love everything!" Then about an two hours later, I was seeing how I trapped myself in the way I acted, chose to reserve myself, was wasting my life. I realized I was in a hell of my own making, and then I entered eternity and spent a lifetime perusing the labyrinths of my mind. Everything gets boring when you are your own best friend. Seeing various aspects of myself, some that I enjoyed and many that I couldn't stand. What did they say in school, would you like to live in a world where everyone is the same? We do live in that world.
If you ask me people have alot of -3 expriences on mushrooms.

Nothing is confused here, but I bet you don't think that... :crazy2:


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No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!


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OfflineMeThoD
MeThoD

Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 568
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: red bread for your rain colored coat hanger [Re: mecreateme]
    #3633740 - 01/16/05 02:01 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I've never had ego death. I've had multiple splits of the ego, which resulted in fun conversations with "myself" in the mirror.

What level of ego loss would it be if I thought I was not a single mind, but part of a conciousness that involved all nature?


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Every empty bowl must be filled, and a full bowl must always be emptied.


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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
Re: red bread for your rain colored coat hanger [Re: MeThoD]
    #3648405 - 01/19/05 03:29 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Personally, I'm like Clone, I've taken shrooms 6 times and I haven't been to level 5 before, but i'm slowly making my way up there.

I've got a question to those who claim are able to achieve level 5 or egodeath whime meditating;
Which was the first time you experienced ego-loss..with shrooms or with meditation?

I guess the answer is with mushrooms..So would you say that shrooms taught you how to reach egodeath? Was kinda like this: shrooms took your hand to show you how, in order for you to be able to do it on your own?


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Invisiblemecreateme
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Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 2,727
Loc: Memphrica
Re: red bread for your rain colored coat hanger [Re: exclusive58]
    #3648459 - 01/19/05 03:40 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Exactly right exclusive58.
The mushrooms merely shows you the way. Once you know that a place like that exists, it is not so hard to get back there. I, myself, have never been able to get to this place without some sort of chemical key(e.g. psilocybin, salvia.) The psychedelic seems to act like a key to your mind. I have yet to be able to do it on my own, but that is what things such as meditation and mantra are for. You also need to be in peak physical shape to experience these altered forms of consciousness on your own without mushrooms.


--------------------
No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!


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OfflinePsiledehysp
second mushroomto the left
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Registered: 06/29/04
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Re: red bread for your rain colored coat hanger [Re: exclusive58]
    #3648547 - 01/19/05 03:56 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I would also like to hear answers to your question, exclusive. I have been recently researching this subject here on shroomery and this is how I understand it so far (from my limited theoretical view):

Ethogens can be only a way to short term enlightenment (seeing/experiencing the ultimate truth during egodeath experience) and meditation is a way of life, way of being aware all the time.

En example was given that meditation is a path - like climbing a mountain - mushrooms can take you to the top (enlightenment) but in a few hours you are back where you began. Meditation is climbing there, for long years perhaps, but as high you actually are - you don`t fall back.

As I understand it, being there before on ethogens, may help you know where you are heading, how should it be, but still you have practice meditation every day for a long time to get there. But is it any shorter than if you havent been there before - I sure hope so, but I`m willing to climb anyway.


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Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes.
- Carl Gustav Jung


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Invisiblemecreateme
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Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 2,727
Loc: Memphrica
Re: red bread for your rain colored coat hanger [Re: Psiledehysp]
    #3648990 - 01/19/05 05:31 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

The answer is yes.


--------------------
No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!


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Offlinecadam
The Extremist

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 818
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
Re: red bread for your rain colored coat hanger [Re: mecreateme]
    #3649560 - 01/19/05 07:13 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

yay my post hit over 1000 hits!!! anyone had a level 5 recently? me and my mates are guna trip on sataday while trying to play monopoly, 2 of them have never tripped before, it's gona be soo much fun!!


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If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could ever imagine


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OfflineNormorsch2
Stranger
Registered: 01/19/05
Posts: 47
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Re: red bread for your rain colored coat hanger [Re: cadam]
    #3650238 - 01/19/05 09:24 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I wonder how many times people like Syd Barrett, Roky Erickson and Skye Saxon achieved Level 5 before they permanently checked out to lunch. I used to see these guys around Berzerkeley, muttering to trees, eating out of garbage cans, asking dogs for the time of day, etc. and generally pissing and shitting all over themselves in a psychotic stupor.

There was one guy named "Wink" -- the story goes that he took 22 hits of acid at one time and it permanently warped his brain Big Time. He used to wander around Berkeley for months on end in the same clothes until they literally rotted off his body and he'd get arrested for indecent exposure. It was almost comical -- he'd wear high top sneakers until he wore the soles completely out -- I mean completely -- he'd be walking around with bare feet with the tops of his shoes still tied on!!!

Finally, somebody got him some psychiatric "help" -- but when he finally started coming out of his psychosis he apparently decided to end it all, so he threw himself in front of a moving BART train.

Level 5 -- GAME OVER!!!


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InvisibleDark_Star
train driver pervading a desktop
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Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 31,859
Loc: Uranus
Re: red bread for your rain colored coat hanger [Re: Normorsch2]
    #3650311 - 01/19/05 09:37 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

:rolleyes:  Just because a few people go nuts doesn't mean it's bad.......If we even tried to list the people who had level 5 experiences and had their lives changed for the better you could spend years reading it and still never get to the end....


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Offlinerdnp2035
Stranger

Registered: 03/08/04
Posts: 408
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
Re: red bread for your rain colored coat hanger [Re: Dark_Star]
    #3651106 - 01/20/05 12:52 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Sure, you can come back and be an organic farmer musican, living in the woods..talking to the birds. But, there is a harshness to a death experience. What's the point? You've already died, your existance in this world is fragmented and commuication is difficult.
People going through that kind of intensity need a craft to perfect over eternity and a supportive enviroment of like minded people...assuming they are real..


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Invisiblejux
I'm better thanan STD!

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 924
Re: red bread for your rain colored coat hanger [Re: rdnp2035]
    #3651148 - 01/20/05 12:58 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

they are real if you believe them to be so


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Offlineskullfarmer1979
shamanator
Registered: 05/02/04
Posts: 506
Loc: Bum Fuck, Egypt
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Re: red bread for your rain colored coat hanger [Re: Normorsch2]
    #3653537 - 01/20/05 02:48 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

that is the reason i don't seek the level 5 anymore.i worry about losing my mind, my job,my g/f and everything i've worked so hard to have.i've been to the abyss/void/god what ever u want to call it and i still have my sanity,well sort of. :confused:
now that i can go the dmt route,i feel better about pushing the envelope.a level 5 shroom trip is very taxing and you can only learn so much and you start chasing your tail.


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I TASTE THE WREAKAGE OF CRUMBLING FACES,I KNOW THE PALE THING IN THE DARKEST OF PLACES. -DAX RIGGS-

get the most out of life,listen to ACID BATH!!!!


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Invisiblemecreateme
YoUisMEEMsiUoY
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Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 2,727
Loc: Memphrica
Re: red bread for your rain colored coat hanger [Re: skullfarmer1979]
    #3653671 - 01/20/05 03:34 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

You prefer DMT cause it is not so taxing as shrooms?
I have never done DMT but I hear it puts most stuff to shame in its intensity and power.Have you ever thought of it like your tail is the only one to chase? You are the chaser and the chased.

Anyway, that dude who ate all that acid was probably psycho already. Just cause some guy goes crazy, how does that apply to a level five trip? It is the most insanely beautiful and wholely terrifying thing to ever be. I am much more fulfilled in my ordinary life just having been to a place to like, just to know something like that is possible. I have been there before and I am still a functioning member of society, although not to say I approve of the society, it is the only one there is though. :frown:
Level five does not equal game over.
Level five equals you understand the game.
It is not always fun, and many can't handle it, but that is the way it is. :mushroom2:


--------------------
No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!


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Invisiblemecreateme
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Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 2,727
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Re: red bread for your rain colored coat hanger [Re: cadam]
    #3653729 - 01/20/05 03:49 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

You really want a level five? Go into a room with no windows, if you are tripping during the day, or just a completely dark room at night, pitch black is best. I don't care what kind of dose you take, within about an hour, for sure, you will have full blown OEV hallucinations that will completely overlay your reality. That effect is farily simple. Doing things like playing Mononpoly and talking to your friends are avoiding the inner reality. It is a form of not wanting to go into your own self.
If you really want to get to a level five, go in a dark room for your entire trip, a good CD will supplement quite well. But if you think you can handle it, silence is fucking deafening. It is absolutely crazy but I think it is what you are looking for cadam. Just don't blame me if you don't like it once you have been there. :crazy2:


--------------------
No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!


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Offlineskullfarmer1979
shamanator
Registered: 05/02/04
Posts: 506
Loc: Bum Fuck, Egypt
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Re: red bread for your rain colored coat hanger [Re: mecreateme]
    #3654180 - 01/20/05 05:28 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

dmt puts everything to shame.you can reach a level 5 in 4 big hits and be back down in 10 min.it happens so fast you dont have time to be afraid and you come back fast so you don't think you've lost your mind.an hour later you feel just as sober as you did before you smoked it.


--------------------
I TASTE THE WREAKAGE OF CRUMBLING FACES,I KNOW THE PALE THING IN THE DARKEST OF PLACES. -DAX RIGGS-

get the most out of life,listen to ACID BATH!!!!


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InvisibleStonerguy
I smoke penis
Male

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 5,538
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Re: red bread for your rain colored coat hanger [Re: skullfarmer1979]
    #3654505 - 01/20/05 06:35 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

The person who said that the guy that took 22 hits of acid and went crazy I kinda dont believe you. One thing he was probably already crazy to take that many hits. And another i would expect he would get about the same amount as taking a thumbprint of strait white fluff and alot of people who are are in the "family" have takin these masive hits and not gone insane.


--------------------
yawn...
SG


Edited by Stonerguy (01/20/05 06:37 PM)


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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: red bread for your rain colored coat hanger [Re: Normorsch2]
    #3654538 - 01/20/05 06:45 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Normorsch2 said:
There was one guy named "Wink" -- the story goes that he took 22 hits of acid at one time and it permanently warped his brain Big Time. He used to wander around Berkeley for months on end in the same clothes until they literally rotted off his body and he'd get arrested for indecent exposure. It was almost comical -- he'd wear high top sneakers until he wore the soles completely out -- I mean completely -- he'd be walking around with bare feet with the tops of his shoes still tied on!!!

Finally, somebody got him some psychiatric "help" -- but when he finally started coming out of his psychosis he apparently decided to end it all, so he threw himself in front of a moving BART train.

Level 5 -- GAME OVER!!!




I'm skeptical of this for a few reasons. First, if one was that psychotic, how do we know they would realize they need food? Second, assuming he did eat, he would probably have to eat out of dumpsters and such. He would probably have been diseased. Third, people have taken much more LSD than that and not had trouble. Perhaps he was mentally unstable before? Perhaps... But Berkley is a prestigious school. In all likelihood, someone in the security or administration would notice some psychotic bum wandering around, and arrest him or put him in an institution.

There are all sorts of stories like this...someone having too much acid and going crazy thinking they were a glass of Orange Juice, etc. They are entertaining, but it's highly unlikely such a thing is true.

Level 5 is quite a trip, but it's supposed to be amazing. Unfortunately I have yet to visit there.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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OfflineNormorsch2
Stranger
Registered: 01/19/05
Posts: 47
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Re: red bread for your rain colored coat hanger [Re: dblaney]
    #3656092 - 01/20/05 11:50 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Well, you obviously have never taken a walk down Telegraph Avenue/Peoples Park, etc. UC and the City of Berkeley pretty much encourage loonies to come there with all their support services for acid casualties and other drug zombies -- so much so that the Napa State Mental Hospital basically dumps their excess loonies on the streets of Berzerkeley for safe keeping.

It may be a case of chicken vs. egg -- were they crazy to take the drugs or did the drugs make them crazy? You'd have to be pretty self-destructive to want to take 22 hits of LSD or a mega dose of some other hallucinogen to achieve self-induced psychosis. There are many risks.

Obviously, these are powerful drugs (especially LSD) if they can drastically alter your brain chemistry with a dose measured in micrograms. I mean, many here seem to want to change their personality (ego destruction, etc.) with these things, and seem to believe they're succeeding -- tuning into some "Cosmic Truth" with large and continued doses. You alter your brain chemistry and thought processes enough and you may change your mind permanently, for good or ill. It's not so far-fetched to conceive of someone inducing a pychotic episode and launching themselves into permanent psychosis with a mega dose, especially if they already have "issues" (or not). There is plenty of documentation of people having psychotic episodes under the influence of large doses and killing themselves, etc. (CIA experiments, etc.) A friend of mine from high school (seemingly normal guy) took a massive dose of shrooms and decided it would be a good idea to jump his motorcycle off a 200' cliff -- he didn't make it. So, the bigger the dose, the less control and the greater chance of acting on some irrational impulse that could get you in a whole lot of trouble.

I guess it depends on the person, whether they can "handle" it or not. Personally, I would rather not take the escalator up to Level 5 and shove my ego feet-first down THEE PSYCHIC WOOD CHIPPER...I'd rather maintain some semblence of control, just giggle hysterically for a few hours and come back to "reality", whatever that is.

---Normorsch2


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