Home | Community | Message Board



Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Amazon Shop: Microscope

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
InvisibleRavus
Not an EggshellWalker
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
Theory on the Virgin Mary
    #3591144 - 01/06/05 11:53 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I also posted this in OTD, and I think this theory is rather possible. It has mostly to do with the semantics of the "Virgin Mary."

First, let us define virgin:
Quote:

A person who has not experienced sexual intercourse.



http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/v/v0113000.html

Which is the definition they mean when they speak of the Virgin Mary. She has never had a penis stuck inside her, yet had a child (Jesus, for those of you who haven't read the Bible.) How could this be?

It all goes back to my health class. I remember that the health teacher said an interesting fact, one that got my attention. She said it is possible for sperm to enter the vagina and impregnate a woman, even if the man has just ejaculated on the clitoris or on the vaginal area, without penetrating her. The woman could still be a virgin, because no sexual penetration has taken place, yet become pregnant.

So that was what I was thinking, that the Virgin Mary may have been satisfying a man, but did not want to lose her virginity, so allowed the man to ejaculate on her clitoris, under the assumption that she would not get pregant. However, that Messiah sperm did not give up, and like the best of the best, swam the far distance up the vagina and had the most famous virgin birth in history.

If true, this could alter the face of Christianity forever.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleshroomydan
exshroomerite
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 4,126
Loc: In the woods
Re: Theory on the Virgin Mary [Re: Ravus]
    #3591744 - 01/07/05 01:39 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I think your theory is nothing more than Christian bait, and I hope nobody gives you the angry response you are seeking.

Everybody knows that the Virgin Mary conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit. This is why Christians say that Jesus is the only begotten son of the Father, while those who love Jesus are sons and daughters of God by adoption.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAlan Stone
Corpus

Registered: 11/23/02
Posts: 986
Loc: Ten feet up
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: Theory on the Virgin Mary [Re: Ravus]
    #3592467 - 01/07/05 06:12 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

"Virgin" was just an erroneous translation, as every young lass in those days was supposed to be a virgin if she wasn't married. Hence, she was a "virgin" when Jesus was conceived, but then got married to Yussuf.


--------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleHELLA_TIGHT
Madge the Smoking Vag
Female User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 84,350
Loc: Afghanistan Flag
Re: Theory on the Virgin Mary [Re: Ravus]
    #3592637 - 01/07/05 07:57 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

on christmas there was a special about this on THC.

but it is pretty much what Alan Stone said, "virgin" was just a misleading translation.

there is also a theory that she was raped by a roman soldier. He was called "Panthera"


--------------------




Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineFrog
Warrior
Female User Gallery

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
Re: Theory on the Virgin Mary [Re: shroomydan]
    #3592697 - 01/07/05 08:23 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I have to agree with ShroomyDan, although those would be good explanations to explain away the miracle if you don't believe.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAsanteA
light your candle on my love
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 53,695
Loc: Right Here - Right Now
Last seen: 6 hours, 15 minutes
Re: Theory on the Virgin Mary [Re: Ravus]
    #3592715 - 01/07/05 08:53 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

So that was what I was thinking, that the Virgin Mary may have been satisfying a man, but did not want to lose her virginity, so allowed the man to ejaculate on her clitoris, under the assumption that she would not get pregant. However, that Messiah sperm did not give up, and like the best of the best, swam the far distance up the vagina and had the most famous virgin birth in history.





"Virginity" might well be meant a symbol for purity, and possibly not virginity in the strictest sense. "Virgin" often tended to mean "uncorrupted, unpolluted" especially in spiritual texts.
It's a bit akin to as ship's "Maiden Voyage".


And perhaps the text was literal.
Virgin births (with the hymen intact) sporadically occur in human biology. The offspring will then be a woman, because of the presence of two (female) X chromosomes.


In evolution Females were here first: the male "Y" chromosome (in XY pairing) is in fact an altered X chromosome.
If one of Mary's X chromosomes in her gamete changed into a Y chromosome and merged with another you would have a zygote which bears the XY pairing and will birth a man with traits alien to Mary.
Please note how Mary is regarded as the Divinest of Mothers.

In genetic Christianity, using the Bible's (and Darwin's) symbolism it is entirely possible that The Lord of Chance (or Chance itself) created Man anew, a Man unlike any in our bloodline because it was a genetically unique individual that did not reproduce.

This situation (X chromosome alteration and formation of a zygote) is entirely possible but extremely rare. But then again, the Christian Messiah is extremely rare too (one of a kind to our knowledge) and if this holds true he was not born of Man but from the Virgin Mary like alleged.

So even Science agrees there is the extremely rare but REAL possibility Mary birthed a Son that was Not Of Man, exactly as the Bible alleged and in accordance with the science of Genetics.

The "Holy Spirit" might be regarded as the Christian name for the Force that created Genetics in the first place without any genitals involved.

Evolution dictates most mutations are detrimental but rarely evolution makes a big leap forward then creating something better then before. Perhaps that the Universe created with Jesus Christ the Summit of Perfection in human form (as the Bible suggests consistantly) and this could truely be regarded as the "Son of God" because none can outdo Perfection.

All biblical evidence suggests that Jesus was a truely remarkable person to both experience and behold, even inbetween working Miracles, and this in Biology usually suggest an exceptionally succesful genetic makeup.
Perhaps every one of the millions of DNA base-pairs were just right :heart:

If you allow me some mythos I can imagine Jesus' altered chromosome had a 4x90' configuration with one appendage elongated so that it under the microscope resembles the Christian cross which would then be the Alpha and Omega of his stay on earth.
But hey, that's mythos, the rest is Hard Science!


As you can see Ravus I outdid your thesis by establishing the scientific possibility of Jesus Christ in accordance with the Bible. I believe you intended to bait Christians, but I just pulled a scientific 180 degrees on you I'd like you to disprove or accept :grin:

.


--------------------
CLICK ONE -->  :redpill:  :bluepill:  <-- GO PLACES
SEARCH ENGINE  SUPPORT TICKETS  STORE  SPONSORS/VENDORS  AMANI
PSYCHOSIS, SYNCHRONICITIES, SHAMANISM & THE SUPERNATURAL WA&F

From the Outcasts to the Incrowd, from the Clueless to the Helpful, it takes the whole Shroomery to help a n00b


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleRavus
Not an EggshellWalker
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
Re: Theory on the Virgin Mary [Re: shroomydan]
    #3593565 - 01/07/05 02:28 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Why would you assume I would want to bait anyone? This is a spirituality forum, and ejaculating on the clitoris of the Virgin Mary could be a spiritual experience. If someone is angered by the theory then they don't have to think about it.

Interesting answer Wiccan_Seeker. Assuming the Virgin Mary was in fact a virgin, it is possible that something similar to what you outline happened, but it seems to have a very low probability of happening, compared to something with a higher probability, like traditional male and female combining without penetration.

If it is a translation error, wouldn't there still be a husband, or some information other than the fact that she was birthed by God? Maybe there was a man back then they regarded as God, and Mary had intercourse with him, therefore she was a pure "Virgin" as she had only had intercourse with God, but it seems possible they did mean it literally in the Bible myths, that Mary actually had a virgin birth.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,344
Loc: On the Border
Re: Theory on the Virgin Mary [Re: Ravus]
    #3594176 - 01/07/05 05:13 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

"ejaculating on the clitoris of the Virgin Mary could be a spiritual experience"

I am not offended...but come on...that sounds like having sex with your grandmother...gross. In any case I don't think any of us will have the opportunity to try it.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,866
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 1 month, 23 days
Re: Theory on the Virgin Mary [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3594197 - 01/07/05 05:18 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

""So that was what I was thinking, that the Virgin Mary may have been satisfying a man, but did not want to lose her virginity, so allowed the man to ejaculate on her clitoris, under the assumption that she would not get pregnant. However, that Messiah sperm did not give up, and like the best of the best, swam the far distance up the vagina and had the most famous virgin birth in history.""

beautiful!


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinetheknighterrant
errant knight
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 141
Loc: somewhere in western cana...
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: Theory on the Virgin Mary [Re: Ravus]
    #3594294 - 01/07/05 05:40 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

you must keep in mind that the new testament went through a number of translations before it reached our modern english version. alan stone has the right of it. remember that each language will have different connotations of one particular word (just as english does). these connotations may or may not have been considered by the original authors of the texts, again considered or not by every translator of those texts. since i am not as conversant with bibical greek as i would like to be, i cannot present any connotations of the biblical greek word which was eventually translated to our virgin.
added to this is the comment by wiccan seeker about the appelative 'virgin' meaning 'unsullied' or 'pure'. entirely correct. most often when we read the adjective 'virgin' in spiritual texts the meaning is along these lines, even if the translators took it to mean 'un-deflowered'.
even in english, the specific meaning of 'virgin' has changed dramatically over time. during the middle and early modern english periods (when we start to see translations of the bible in vernacular) virgin meant exactly this. no one really believes that liz I was a virgin, although she is called the 'virgin queen' to denote her regal nature and to state the fact that she was childless.
in most cases 'virgin' simply meant an unmarried woman of child bearing age. our modern connotation of a virgin as a woman who has not had sex stems from this definition.
the meanings of words are always changing. this is an unescapable fact. to trust that some modern translation of an already many times translated text is the very word of god is foolish.
i do not doubt that the appelation 'virgin' when applied to mary mother of christ isn't even a mistranslation; it is the dogma of a church needing to show its pedigree. there are many myths of virgin births around the world, particularly when the offspring is a saviour or hero figure. not all of these myths need or include impregnation by a spirit figure or other god. the early church (hell, even before there was such a thing as an organized christian church) needed to make sure that their object of worship was attractive and powerful. how better to make christ attractive and powerful than to have his mother knocked up by the big guy himself? remember the texts of the new testament that we now have in the canon were written anywhere from 70 to 150 years after the death of christ. they were written down in a period where christianity was competing with many other faiths including mithraism. in fact, it was a pretty close thing. had constantine converted to mithraism (the very popular persian saviour religion that an astounding number of the roman soldiers followed), we'd be bowing before a winged bull instead of a crucifix. it was neck and neck there for a while.
but i digress. in this competative atmosphere it is easy to see how the mystery of the virgin birth of christ was conceived (if you will pardon the pun).

tke


--------------------
The oldest and strongest emotion of man is fear. The oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown.
--H.P. Lovecraft

Demented Piper Press


Edited by theknighterrant (01/07/05 05:43 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

Amazon Shop: Microscope

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* The Virgin Mary Miracle... Shattered
( 1 2 all )
Sclorch 2,444 27 06/22/04 09:45 AM
by Seuss
* Believers and non-believers
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Learyfan 4,568 68 05/03/02 08:43 PM
by Sclorch
* Seeing Jesus or the Virgin Mary
( 1 2 all )
Swami 2,003 25 02/14/04 12:13 AM
by Swami
* July 22 - Feast Day of Mary Magdalene - Divine Wisdom
( 1 2 all )
MarkostheGnostic 2,227 26 07/27/04 04:40 PM
by MarkostheGnostic
* How many Holy men are born to virgins througout history?
( 1 2 3 all )
MAGnum 3,337 46 02/26/05 06:06 PM
by JacquesCousteau
* Solar Mary AnnoA 582 11 03/12/08 11:00 AM
by extrapale
* Virgin Birth or the "real' story
( 1 2 3 all )
Swami 2,988 42 12/30/05 09:37 AM
by TameMe
* virgin birth
Annapurna1
575 7 03/18/04 09:54 AM
by fresh313

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Jokeshopbeard, DividedQuantum
1,299 topic views. 0 members, 6 guests and 7 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Zamnesia.com
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.046 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 18 queries.