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OfflineMrBump
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Philosophy of Cross-sex friendships
    #3589471 - 01/06/05 05:41 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

background: i have recently broken off a two year friendship with a female. we were pretty much inseperable for awhile and she became a good,reliable friend if not my best friend. I had always had mild romantic feelings for her but i was capable of keeping them under wraps for the sake of the friendship. she saw romantic potential in me as well but my lack of steady work and living situation never alowed her to persue her feelings. we have, on occasion, fooled around while drunk (reason #44 women and alcohol dont mix)

like i said earlier, we were pretty much inseperable and many third party people (same sex friends, family, waiters bartenders strangers) were always commenting on how we were really dating, friends with "benefits" or that we made a good couple, etc....

well, things can to a tipping point and i expressed my feelings for her and we decided to give a relaitionship a try. needless to say it was a tsunmami sized disaster (the nature of the friendship changed) so now im left without her friendship at all.

it took me a few weeks to get over it ( i finally am) so now ive been thinking about the philosophy of male/female interpersonal relations a lot.
I have been readding a good book: We're just good friends : women and men in nonromantic relationships / Kathy Werking
and found it to be a pertty fascinating study on the subject of men/women platonic friendships.

it describes the many pitfalls/asumptions about cross-sex friendships and how the middle classes western view on male/female socializing can doom these types of friendships; traditionally men had no reason to befriend a woman 100 years ago and women generally had no one to relate their strictly homemaking lifestyle with except other women

from childhood to adolecence, boys are encouraged to befriend boys and viceversa. samesex friends tease those who have childhood crushes on girls. girls/boys are believed to have "cooties." etc...

the author also doscusses cross-sex friedships in the context of cross-sex freindships when one or both friends are in "intamate traditional" relationships and the problems that can arrise (jealousy, usually) and society's view on cross-sex friendships and how most third-party outsiders view cross sex platonics as counterproductive, and finally she talks about what i view as the most confilcting aspect of the cross-sex relationship-- the bottling of sexuality between the friends to keep the friendship "as is" and the problem keeping a friendship non-romantic.

I have come to believe that hetero male/female friendships are very hard to maintain for extended periods of time, at least from my preceptions on most peoples relationships/friendships including my own. I find my self to be a hardcore romantic and find hiding the romantic side to a very intamant, close platonic frienship pretty much impossible.

plus the societal pressures and the injection of strong emotions like jealousy or suspicision from people who are actaully romantically involved with an individual in one of these friendships just too much to overcome in many instances.

So, what does everyone think about male/female interpersonal relatiosnships/freindships in this new, modern age of equality of the sexes?

BTW the book is a pertty enlightening read and is filled with actual interviews between cross-sex friends. was amazed to read many instances when one side or the other woulf reveal romantic leanings toward the other for the first time during the interview. It seems during the length of the friendship, this aspect is usually avioded by the friends as to avoid conflict or for fears of rejection by a close friend.


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If it weren't for the bloody corpses, I wouldn't have any corpses at all.

There are two ways to get to the top of an oak tree: start climbing or sit on an acorn.

Are you a carrot, an egg, or a coffee bean?


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InvisibleCherryBomM
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Re: Philosophy of Cross-sex friendships [Re: MrBump]
    #3589972 - 01/06/05 07:34 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

You can also add another twist to the situation of seeming platonic relationships.

What if you are currently involved in a relationship with someone and befriend someone of the opposite sex? Is boyfriend/girlfriend warranted in feeling jealous?

Is there a such thing as a 100% platonic cross-gender friendship?


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Philosophy of Cross-sex friendships [Re: MrBump]
    #3589979 - 01/06/05 07:36 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

short answer, i have a number of female friends and ususally i find its best to not turn friendships into sexual things as you lose out on a lasting friendship and often make things akward later especially if that girl is friends with your friends, etc


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Everything I post is fiction. This poster is no longer active.


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Anonymous

Re: Philosophy of Cross-sex friendships [Re: MrBump]
    #3590084 - 01/06/05 07:56 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I've had a 100% platonic relationship with a girl that's lasted so far about 4 years up to this day. The only thing that happened to ruin it was our interests have changed so we don't talk or hang out much anymore. I had no romantic feelings for her, nor her any for me as far as I know. She once told me that I was also the only platonic friend she's ever had. One thing that I think helped was that, while she was attractive, she was not my "type," and I was not her type. So there was never any sexual attraction from the start from either side.

Let me say that I think there are two basic kinds of relationships between people. There's relationships borne of need, and those not borne of need. These two types encompass both friendships and sexual relationships. Sexual relationships are almost always the kind where needs are fulfilled. Friendships that don't have one or both persons needs fulfilled are more common. These are those friendships in which you and the other person are both inspired and recharged by each other. These are very synergistic friendships, where there's hardly any arguments and yet it's never boring. I think a platonic relationship HAS to be this kind of friendship, where neither person needs the other for anything. Otherwise a need will manifest as sexual or romantic desire.


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Invisibleuriahchase
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Re: Philosophy of Cross-sex friendships [Re: MrBump]
    #3590154 - 01/06/05 08:09 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

honestly..i've never befriend a female whom i was not somewhat attracted to.
im not shallow nor do i think im such a catch, but i enjoy being surround by people who look good more than those who don't...maybe it's so i feel good-lookin' too?

ill say that i think women are more capable of having 100% platonic relationships more so than guys...reasonig? men in fact have to heads..and rarely thi8nk with our brain. Also, women have the mother nurishing complex goin' on so they generally show compassion to everything more than guys, thus making it easier for them to befriend a guy who they don't find sexually attractive. Agree?


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Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are -Kurt Cobain
       



     
Hotter than the left sink handle.


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InvisibleCherryBomM
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Re: Philosophy of Cross-sex friendships [Re: uriahchase]
    #3590279 - 01/06/05 08:32 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I can agree with that, it makes a lot of sense.


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Registered: 10/13/02
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Re: Philosophy of Cross-sex friendships [Re: MrBump]
    #3590756 - 01/06/05 10:00 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)



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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Offlineskystone
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Re: Philosophy of Cross-sex friendships [Re: z@z.com]
    #3590850 - 01/06/05 10:27 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

What's all this emphasis on strict separation of sex and friendship?
These two don't cancel each other. Real love is universal.
It is a connection between brothers, sisters, lovers, strangers, anyone rally. It is just painted a different color in each of these cases.

I don't know why all the defintions, words, symbols. If you love a human being, just love him/her and don't try to attach rules to it.
So what, one day you are like brother and sister, the next day you feel like having a sexual relationship with her, It doesn't make him/her any less friend to you that he/she was the previous day.

And one of the important things to remember is that love is not a feeling, it is an act. Even by official psychological definition, love is not an emotion, it is a complex psychological relation to some object.

We all have built in love for every creature of the universe,
It is our own free will that determines shall we or shall we not try to discover this love in us, no matter how deep it might be burried
behind all the "teachings" from our socialization process.


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"..and suddenly it began to rain"


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InvisibleNariusFractal
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Re: Philosophy of Cross-sex friendships [Re: skystone]
    #3590864 - 01/06/05 10:31 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Wow, that was truly an inspiring post skystone!  :thumbup: :mushroom2:


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You are the microcosm of the macrocosm.


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InvisibleCherryBomM
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Re: Philosophy of Cross-sex friendships [Re: NariusFractal]
    #3591567 - 01/07/05 01:10 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Yea, that was really awesome.  It really has a lot to do with perception if you think about it.

Quote:

It is a connection between brothers, sisters, lovers, strangers, anyone rally. It is just painted a different color in each of these cases.




We choose the restrictions that we each set up for ourselves, we need to quit analyzing sometimes so inherently simple!  :smirk: :heart: :smirk:


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OfflineAmber_Glow
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Registered: 09/02/02
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Re: Philosophy of Cross-sex friendships [Re: MrBump]
    #3592683 - 01/07/05 08:17 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Most of the girls I end up good friends with are ones that I was first sexually interested in, but then things turned to just a friendship. Generally all sexual feelings are gone after being purely platonic and good friends for a long time, I don't let those feelings linger!

Skystone's post is cute and all, but things just don't always work out quite so simply as we'd like.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Philosophy of Cross-sex friendships [Re: Amber_Glow]
    #3592699 - 01/07/05 08:23 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

the title of this was so stimulating I have not been able to settle down and read it.

meantime my comment is: in mixed company, ideas go to another level.


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Offlineskystone
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Re: Philosophy of Cross-sex friendships [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3592746 - 01/07/05 09:31 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Amber..

You are looking at it from a subjective point of view, rather than collective. Since relationship involves two or more people, all of them must change their attitude to make things more free and simple.


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"..and suddenly it began to rain"


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Invisibleuriahchase
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Re: Philosophy of Cross-sex friendships [Re: skystone]
    #3592765 - 01/07/05 09:39 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

skystone: what about when just one changes? say im just firends with a girl,PERIOD i want nothing more, but she keeps on jockin'? and wont stop. this goes on till she gives up and moves on about her feelings....now we both feel the same. right?
also what if by her not jockin' anymore..this makes me now want her(want what you cant have) both of our feelings changed but things just got more confusing.! selah.


--------------------
Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are -Kurt Cobain
       



     
Hotter than the left sink handle.


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Offlineskystone
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Re: Philosophy of Cross-sex friendships [Re: uriahchase]
    #3593024 - 01/07/05 11:19 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Well there's not much you can do, is there?
Just live with it, find something other in your life.


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"..and suddenly it began to rain"


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Philosophy of Cross-sex friendships [Re: MrBump]
    #3593168 - 01/07/05 12:17 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I think they're entirely possible. I've been in one for four years with a girl I met on a trip to Spain. Everyone (both male and female mutual friends) thought we would eventually end up as lovers, but we never did.

Besides that one, I've never had a cross-sex relationship with someone I wasn't at least a bit attracted to.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineMrBump
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Re: Philosophy of Cross-sex friendships [Re: skystone]
    #3593563 - 01/07/05 02:27 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I liked your response skystone, very philosophical....

however, while it is possible to "love" every creature and that real love is universal...
there is a difference in "loving" someone (like a platonic friend) and being "in love" with someone (romantic relationships)

the decision to act on who we love (since you believe love is more of an act rather than an emotion) is very different from our decision to act on who we choose to "make love" to....if you catch me drift.


[Email]z@z-[/Email] those links were hilarious, ty!
damin i shoulda read your second link two months ago; i still might be friends with this girl :nonono:


--------------------
If it weren't for the bloody corpses, I wouldn't have any corpses at all.

There are two ways to get to the top of an oak tree: start climbing or sit on an acorn.

Are you a carrot, an egg, or a coffee bean?


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InvisibleHendostan
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Re: Philosophy of Cross-sex friendships [Re: Alan Stone]
    #3593589 - 01/07/05 02:38 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

it's entirely possible, my current best friend is a female, we've been great friends for 8 years (since i was in 7th grade). we've never considered trying a relationship, we've always just been content as friends. she's been in a relationship for about 2 years with this guy, and he and i have grown to be good friends as well..there might have been a little jealousy at the very beginning, but once he got to know me, he realized i'm no threat, hah. the 3 of us hang out all the time, it's great. i also have another female friend who i've messed around with a few times, and cautiosly ventured into a dating situation. we realized it wasn't meant for us, and went back to being friends. we still are, and it's not uncomfortable at all...so i guess my cross-sex friendships have been very successful, somehow :laugh: just go with what feels right...i think if you know the person and yourself well enough, you will know what the right thing to do is


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OfflineMrBump
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Re: Philosophy of Cross-sex friendships [Re: MrBump]
    #3593598 - 01/07/05 02:41 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)


i guess you could add another variable to the male/female friendship:

the dreaded "we used to date but now were just friends" relationship. Folks, it only works on Sienfield IMO.

the de-evolution of a romantic relationship into a friendship w/ the oposite sex can be very difficult to handle....im dealing with one right now. my ex from a year ago still desires to be friends with me for some reason, she plays on my coed soccer teams (im not the manager so i cant kick her off the team) so i have to see her at least once a week, now she has a new bf and the guy is extremely jealous/paraniod of me b/c he knows our past. she doesnt want to date me anymore (she dumped me) but still kinda flirts with me, its really annoying some times, she even cock-blocked me once!

i think my ex is being selfish, she wants to have it both ways (or just her way)
by desiring a friendship with me.
but i look at it this way by paraphrasing a woody allen movie quote:

"relationships are like sharks, they have to keep moving forward or they die. and what we have here....is a dead shark."

i dont see how people who have shared and lost love on the most intamint of levels could possibly take the relationship down a huge peg and still make it work.


--------------------
If it weren't for the bloody corpses, I wouldn't have any corpses at all.

There are two ways to get to the top of an oak tree: start climbing or sit on an acorn.

Are you a carrot, an egg, or a coffee bean?


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OfflineZekebomb
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Registered: 08/24/03
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Re: Philosophy of Cross-sex friendships [Re: MrBump]
    #3593751 - 01/07/05 03:21 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Max Headroom:
I think a platonic relationship HAS to be this kind of friendship, where neither person needs the other for anything.

I wonder if such a relationship exists in the real world. if you have absolutely no need for someone, why are you hanging out with them? from personal experience relationships are almost never balanced perfectly, and if they are it isn't for long. the seesaw tips, someone becomes parasitic.


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