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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
some crazy things about the jury duty process
    #3585391 - 01/05/05 07:39 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

After four cancellations, I finally dragged myself out to martinez (which is a city build on a dump btw) to go do my "civic duty"  With great luck I found a keen parking spot and waited in line to get into a place I did not want to go. About a hundred to two hundred people were placed in this huge room as we filled out the forms.

What they did is they give you a piece of paper with about 15 questions.

All "yes or no" questions, some ranged from "do you have a philisophical or ethical issue dealing with the judicial system that would keep you from making a fair judgement,"  to "do you currently know someone in the police force"

Once I was done with filling out forms, I looked around and I saw something hilarious.  more than half the room was watching a single TV.  furthermore, what was on was court TV :lol: .  I couldn't stand it, people watching court TV, while at court. hehe bizzare

So they made us wait for three hours in one room while they sorted all of our papers out. i looked around at banners that said "jury duty, it's for you." kinda sad. 

They did give an hour and a half lunch though.  while I was outside smoking with some other smokers a lady walked all inbetween us in order to get by us and she told us all that smoking is addicting.  here's the thing, she had a cup of coffee in her hand hehe.  gotta love people 

Our attention was called upon and the lady made us all watch a video titled "jury duty and you!" It was a 15 minute video of regular looking people profess their love of jury duty. After all, "it's not that bad once you go through it."

After that, roll was taken and we split up into groups of 60.

From there we enter the court room. As we were sitting down, the two attorneys just stared at us, I knew they were looking at what we were wearing and what we look like.  which of us looks good for their side.

So here's the thing...the judge defines "reasonable doubt " and being "objective" Yet, the whole dismissing process is subjective.

A black male was on trial, and crazy enough, all the black people were dismissed by the attorneys. after two days of this asking questions since people couldn't decide if they could be fair or not.

One lady went on a tangent saying how she was robbed one time.  "I still see his face in the window" she cried. Since this is the case, she can't be objective in a robbery case.  the last black person was a woman who was just horrified.  she said she didn't want to be held responsibile of the young mans life since he was black as well.  really sad

I had to come back the next day since they never finished the selecting process.

So how does the objectivity have any solid footing if people are to be select based on 15 questions and 3-5 mintues of Q&A?  its a subjective thing. I know this is only my own judgement, but there were people who were way better for the job (since there were people who didn't know what being objective means) who were ousted quickley.

After being the last person to be ousted I left feeling a litle dazed and confused.  don't get me wrong, there were some cool people that I met there and in fact, they were the only reason that the jury duty thing was neat.  you do get to meet some awesome people and realize how many other bright people there are in this world.  it was comforting to find a lot of people wondering why people were watching judge judy inside a court room hehe.

Is that a good thing?  you know, leaving feeling iffy about the system but much better about the people who inhabit it?


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Offlinemitemouse
Student

Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 167
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Re: some crazy things about the jury duty process [Re: kaiowas]
    #3587612 - 01/06/05 05:20 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I never understood being sentenced by your peers when a black man goes to trial with a white jury..its really unfair system!!


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: some crazy things about the jury duty process [Re: kaiowas]
    #3587767 - 01/06/05 06:42 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I never understood being sentenced by your peers when a black man goes to trial with a white jury..its really unfair system!!




Only if you see skin color...

What do you think about professional juries. Basically people that are hired to sit on a jury as their job. Originally I didn't like the idea. I felt that it would lead to corruption in the legal process. Lately, the idea has grown on me. I realize that we can still choose an impartial jury from a large pool of professionals, not a closed group that goes from case to case. We also save a huge ammount of time and money because we don't have to teach a jury about forensics and how the law works in every case... they already have this training as part of their job. The system would be optional, with a defendent being allowed to waive the professional jury for a conventional jury if so desired. Plus, I feel that a professional jury would be less open to the sway of charismatic lawyers since they would see that type of thing so often.

Another thought I had was to require public defenders for all criminal cases. In other words, Martha Stewart and the bum on the street would get identical legal representation in a criminal case. Both the public defender and the processcutor would be paid the same saleries and would have an equal budget (for expert witnesses, etc) for the case. All expenses would be paid for by the public and would be fixed for the type of case being considered. These restrictions would only apply to criminal cases, not civil cases.

I also have ideas for civil cases. Requested damages must be stated when the case is filed with the courts and cannot be changed afterwards and there are no settlements. Less sure on this idea... trying to figure out a way to end the "I am going to sue Pepsi for a zillion dollars knowing that they will settle for a few million" type of crap.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
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Re: some crazy things about the jury duty process [Re: Seuss]
    #3587870 - 01/06/05 08:37 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Probably the most important process which should be required to be taught to the jury is the process of jury nullification. Unfortunately lawyers are not allowed by the court to instruct jurors of this right.

http://www.fija.org/


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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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InvisibleCJay
Dark Stranger
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Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 931
Loc: Riding a bassline
Re: some crazy things about the jury duty process [Re: cb9fl]
    #3587882 - 01/06/05 08:51 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Judge Judy Rules! Forget the jury


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
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Re: some crazy things about the jury duty process [Re: kaiowas]
    #3588084 - 01/06/05 10:20 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

last time i went to jury duty they had Spanish Novellas on TV????
i think the u.s. has the best system in the world but it needs some upgrading. i like some of the ideas seuss gave.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Invisiblepsilomonkey
Twisted brainwrong of a oneoff man mental

Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 812
Loc: Airstrip One
Re: some crazy things about the jury duty process [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3588364 - 01/06/05 11:51 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I have served on a jury in an English court (being English), we don't really have much in the way of jury selection. They told us to make it known if we knew anyone involved in the trial, which would get you taken off the jury, or if we were unable for some reason to swear the oath or affirm. One guy knew a defendant, so was replaced then, we were sworn in and the trail began.

Also we get called up for 2 weeks (normally, some courts have cases that run for ages, but thankfully I was not at the Old Bailey), I did 3 trials in that time.

It was quite interesting, the jury members were mostly responsible people that took their duty seriously, dick about in an English court and the judge can find you in contempt of court, resulting in fine or a week or two in jail, no appeals. So that kept people in line.

Our legal people also work in fancy dress, a sort of Batman's granny outfit, and we had a naff 15min video too.


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OfflineMikeOLogical
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Registered: 01/31/04
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Re: some crazy things about the jury duty process [Re: Seuss]
    #3588390 - 01/06/05 11:58 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

the only thing i see wrong with a professional jury is the eventuality of bias due to the jury knowing more than the people testifying...

example, if an expert witness makes a claim that a juror who is also an expert disagrees with, will the juror rely on the testimony of the expert or his own knowledge to decide the case?

or if a person describes events that a professional juror has heard time and time again, for example, if the person testifies that he ran the red light because the yellow was too short and stopping would have been dangerous, a professional juror might decide that he's heard this excuse far too often and reject it...

professional jurors would quickly become jaded, and some might become activists trying to use the court to change the world for what they think is the better...


--------------------
We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Registered: 04/27/01
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Loc: Caribbean
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Re: some crazy things about the jury duty process [Re: MikeOLogical]
    #3588670 - 01/06/05 01:34 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

professional jurors would quickly become jaded, and some might become activists trying to use the court to change the world for what they think is the better...




And that isn't a problem already? I understand your concerns, as I have had the same ones for many years. However, I think the worries are overestimated. Remember, they are still selecting a jury from a large pool of candidates.

> a professional juror might decide that he's heard this excuse far too often and reject it...

More to the point, a professional juror would hopefully be able to detect a bullshit excuse opposed to an actual exception.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleGabbaDj
BTH
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Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,448
Loc: By The Lake
Re: some crazy things about the jury duty process [Re: kaiowas]
    #3588729 - 01/06/05 01:47 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Benicia is my favorite city on earth.. Well almost as favorite as SanFrancisco.


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GabbaDj

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