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Offlinenumb59
journeyman

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 43
Last seen: 22 years, 28 days
levels
    #358258 - 07/21/01 10:49 AM (22 years, 7 months ago)

the next level can always be reached, what happends when you die? what does the mind do with no body to stop it from skyrocketing.. do i make sense? am i reaching anyone? i feel like a scrambled egg... mang!@#


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Invisibleshroom-girlie
addict
Registered: 01/06/01
Posts: 215
Loc: California
Re: levels [Re: numb59]
    #364826 - 08/01/01 02:29 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

The mind is completely free and is able to understand how the universe and life it self works..Once you truely understand the meaning and function of life..you are thrown back into another body so that you get to learn it all over again and experience the feeling again. Its kinda like tripping. You trip and learn everything again and then you come down and forget it all..then you trip again and learn it all over again..thats the fun of it. If we remembered everything there wouldn't be a reason to trip. Life is one big trip.

Edited by shroom-girlie on 08/01/01 03:31 PM.



--------------------

"Express yourself completely then become quiet."

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OfflinePhyl
old hand
Registered: 01/17/00
Posts: 597
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: levels [Re: numb59]
    #364887 - 08/01/01 04:01 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

These are only my beliefs, and I could be totally wrong. In fact I probably am, but I'd like to see you prove it :)

When the spirit separates from the body, it moves into the next dimension. I compare this to moving through a gateway, rather than a separation of mind and body. The next dimension is a place very unlike this dimension, in that it is a non-physical dimension. Space and time do not exist in the liner way we understand them. Your surrounding are generated instantaneously by your thoughts and intents. This new dimension will be so alien to you, it will be as if you are being reborn, and you will be faced with the task of learning how reality works again, just as when you were a child in this reality.

As you pass through the next dimension and into higher and higher dimensions you become closer and more linked to the source. Eventually you can return to the source, where essentially you become god, and become a part of everything.


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Invisibleshroom-girlie
addict
Registered: 01/06/01
Posts: 215
Loc: California
Re: levels [Re: Phyl]
    #365141 - 08/01/01 11:29 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Phly...that is the perfect way of putting..it is like you are reborn..but never in the same dimmension and never with the same experiences. I couldn't have said it better myself...I also believe that this is what happens.



--------------------

"Express yourself completely then become quiet."

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InvisibleKid
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/21/00
Posts: 2,365
Re: levels [Re: numb59]
    #365185 - 08/02/01 12:07 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

IMHO, once you die, your mind no longer exists.


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Offlinegnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/29/99
Posts: 6,488
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
Re: levels [Re: Kid]
    #365516 - 08/02/01 11:18 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

IMHO, when you die, you are like a drop of rain flowing back into the ocean...



--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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InvisibleIn(di)go
People of the sun.
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/29/00
Posts: 8,157
Loc: Cologne, Germany
Re: levels [Re: gnrm23]
    #365820 - 08/02/01 06:07 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

exyctly! gnrm23, that is exactly the way i see it... in fact, i?ve got a tatto about it... its a drop of water about to fall into the ocean... once i die, my body turns into dust... the tatto is gone, and that means the drop fell into the ocean... and i am one with the whole again...



be blessed

In(di)go

"I Am That I Am"


--------------------

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Offlinegnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/29/99
Posts: 6,488
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
Re: levels [Re: In(di)go]
    #365822 - 08/02/01 06:13 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

alan watts said something like:
as the ocean gestures with waves, so the universe gestures with us...
bright blessings...



--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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OfflinePsilocybe Ryan
enthusiast
Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 85
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 22 years, 6 months
Re: levels [Re: numb59]
    #369599 - 08/10/01 12:02 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

I believe that hell is like having a bad trip. People are in hell until everything begins to make sense. Then you reunite with god for eternity.

Edited by Psilocybe Ryan on 08/10/01 01:04 AM.


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: levels [Re: numb59]
    #370641 - 08/12/01 12:35 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

haven't you played the game before? the next level is always reached when you eat all the pellets, but if you want a really high score you have to get centered and eat the cherry. when you die, you have 2 more men, of course. but once you run out, GAME OVER. but, if you're a good player, you get your name in the High Score, and that's your legacy in eternity and people in 2012 will look back and remember your initials in awe and say "thata boy!" if your score is low, you're reincarnated as a ghost and you have to run around eating everybody until you find a body.... that, or another $.25...
.....
duh.
j/k..... i dunno man, i'm not a dead person yet, but I do know the beginning and end of all things that propells me outside of myself and gives my consciousness a body, an existential sense of infinity, and love. i know that big bang everytime I drop acid and find the vibration/frequency of ecstasy and my body hummmmmmmmmmssss and pops and hisses and rattles and I shake away all the tension... it kindah feels like the moment of orgasm... where my body becomes inaudible to itself and an instrument for the soft-hearted, sweetest, romantic, poetic, boyish Eternal Self.




--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: levels [Re: numb59]
    #371813 - 08/14/01 02:50 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Life should be lived like there is no next level.
Why should you even fucking care what happens afterwards?
It doesn't matter NOW. Maybe your consciousness joins up with god or whatever, maybe it's shoved into another body, maybe it stops existing altogether.

My point is this: Those that worry about what happens to their soul/mind/consciousness already have too much wrapped up in their own ego. I'm not saying you're egotistical. Just to worried about YOUR self. It's not "yours" to begin with. Quit thinking like that and quit worrying/pondering about what happens when you die. YOU DIE. If you're conscious of this afterwards, wonderful. If not, wonderful.

It's the game of black and white kids... quit playing it. It's just a form of scaring yourself or deluding yourself. Live now...here. Enjoy now and here as much as possible. Even pain has beauty.

For more on this... read Alan Watts' "The Book: on the taboo against knowing who you are"



--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Invisiblebaloo
Stranger
Registered: 08/14/01
Posts: 14
Re: levels [Re: Phyl]
    #371891 - 08/14/01 02:50 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Re: Phyl;
I figure that we exist with what we want to change or modify about ourselves. Whether we pursue that course or not is our choice. But when we return to the afterlife, which I think is the real life, then the veil of forgetfulness under which we live this life, is lifted. So after death we become again what we have always been; With all the memories and all the limiting faults which hinder our effective constructiveness in that realm. So I do not think we will need to learn about that dimension since we left it to come here.
I like the idea of higher and higher dimensions and I feel that these dimensions are reached thru realizing the goals that are necessary to effectively operate in them. So in order to evolve we need to change and grow which is what we are doing here.
An infinity of levels of effectiveness ahead of us. Everyone bringing us more joy and ecstacy.



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OfflinePhyl
old hand
Registered: 01/17/00
Posts: 597
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: levels [Re: baloo]
    #372225 - 08/15/01 09:09 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

I do not think we will need to learn about that dimension since we left it to come here.
That is a very valid point, and one that I considered a number of times whilst first discovering my spirituality, but I don't think it's totally true.
Whilst our ego exists purely in this 3 dimensional, physically based reality, I believe that my subconscious still exists in a higer dimension. I don't see these dimensions as exclusive, and believe they can interact with each other and have influence over each other (i.e the practice of magick and divination). Through exploring the nature of both dimensions and the ways in which these dimensions interact, I have found that I can gain a much better understanding of myself and the 3 dimensional reality my ego inhabits, and this ultimately leads me to a far happier and productive life.

By no means am I suggesting that it is nescesary or even useful to try and understand these things. I simply find myself drawn towards such concepts, and who am I to deny my path?

Take care

Phil


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InvisibleNDK
member
Registered: 07/13/01
Posts: 186
Re: levels [Re: Phyl]
    #372248 - 08/15/01 09:45 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

I notice that many psychonauts are more spiritual/ supernatural in their beliefs than me - So nobody else believes that when your body dies so does your brain and mind? :-)

I see and feel wild concepts when I'm shrooming but nothing that leads me to believe in a real other dimension. Of course if one did exist I probably wouldn't know about it. Kinda hard to prove or decide either way. I feel I learn useful things which cannot be put into words but I don't see them as spirtual (in the common sense of the word). All I can say is that I haven't got a fucking clue what is going on and everytime I think I do proof that I haven't isn't long coming!






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Invisiblebaloo
Stranger
Registered: 08/14/01
Posts: 14
Re: levels [Re: Phyl]
    #372363 - 08/15/01 01:34 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

By no means am I suggesting that it is nescesary or even useful to try and understand these things.
To be contrary I think it is necessary, especially if it leads to a far happier and productive life.

I?ve been playing with the idea that perhaps our ego does exist with us in the higher realm and that we incarnate the ego separate from the rest so we can view it in operation then take the necessary steps to adjust it.
This very act of separation means the separated part would need some kind of limited temporary consciousness, which is us and which is discarded or reintegrated upon completion.




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OfflineLunuTrance520
Stranger
Registered: 01/22/01
Posts: 11
Loc: Southeastern U.S.A
Last seen: 22 years, 1 month
Re: levels [Re: baloo]
    #372469 - 08/15/01 04:25 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Stride along in a jaded sleep.
Emoitions stealth like death we creep.
Tangeld in wires we ride on lines,
much to fast to read the sighns.
Only feeling here and there.
The line you took you don't even care.
The lines you broke when you shot across.
The ones that fell it's not your loss
Thinking if it comes so easy it's no big sin.
and going with the flow is not giving in.
So now if you believe that one, lets try another,
like finding God in yourself by degrating your brother.
Yourself caught up in orgasmic power,
soaked in expectations the flesh starts to sour.
Your beliefs never stronger, your grace it declines.
Hate starts to suface, serpent coils unwind.
So far in the dark not a mercky sighn of light,
came to the conclusion, there is no wrong or right.
Just time and space, mind and thought,
all that you live for is all that you bought.
Never thinking twice or question yourself,
that ideas crazy put it back on the shelf.
What would they think, what would they say.
Only a weak man has to take time to pray.
Everythings so simple now, peace in the truths you found.
What would you try to live up to if there was noone around?
Could you sit there and enjoy all whats inside?
Could you carry on without them cheering on your ego and pride?
What would it mean trails yet unseen,
noone around voices so keen?
What would you believe in if there was noone around?
Noone to judge you for the new truths you found.
I believe in a past where our future can't last.
Make sence of this trip that goes by so fast.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 30 days
Re: levels [Re: Phyl]
    #372592 - 08/15/01 08:32 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

I read this today: " In order to prepare for death...previous training is important. Whatever attitudes a person cultivates during life will most likely manifest themselves during the process of dying....In order to avoid falling into the traps one finds along the way in the death process, prior preparatrion and training are very important....Among the most effective of these are yogic practices that simulate the process of death. A person who becomes familiar with these is not shocked or terrified by what he or she experiences in the bardo, but rather recognizes everything as images created by the mind....According to tantric theory, the residence of the mind is not the brain, but the heart. The mind is said to reside in the indestructible drop at the heart cakra....The subtle life-sustaining winds reside in it, and when one dies all winds dissolve into it. After all winds dissolve into it, the clear light of death becomes manifest....One experiences a vision of clear light that is like the dawn breaking in a cloudless sky. This is termed the 'clear light of death,' and according to Tibetan medical literature this is the actual point of death. Ordinary people undergoing these changes are terrified." Then, following the "mind of white appearance," the "mind of red increase," and the "mind of black near-attainment," [3 Western alchemical stages], the "mind of clear light" manifests. This can be experienced as infinite space, or infinite light or infinite awareness, depending upon the psyche of the experiencer - whichever seemed to epitomize absolute liberation and freedom in life. Quotations from:'Introduction to Tibetan Buddhism' by John Powers.



--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Offlinealuminum_can
addict
Registered: 05/18/01
Posts: 695
Loc: california, orange
Last seen: 21 years, 7 months
Re: levels [Re: numb59]
    #372655 - 08/15/01 09:36 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

hey, where were you before youre dad even had any sperm? you existed in no way shape or form! why would it be any different when you die? you wont even exist any more, just like you never existed before you were born. you know how mormans arent supposed to drink caffiene? well, since pepsi (maybe coca-cola) is owned by mormans or something like that, they are allowed to drink soda!! fuckin pieces of shit! i was listening to my mp3 player at school and this morman kid came up to me and said something like music is evil or something since it controls the things people believe in, and i told him to fuck off and then i thought about it and before he left i asked him, "then what does the bible do?" i also hear shit about how morman people are so happy. no shit there happy, they cant do drugs unless they own the company that makes them, and everything is influencing (controling) the way you think except for the bible! ive come to a conclusion that when man cant find an answer he makes an excuse for it. just like aliens! when you look out at the sky you see millions of stars, that are way to far away to reach. there is an extremely high chance that there are other civilizations out there, but the chances that one of them would travel millions of light years and waste generations of their species to come over here, make a circle in a field and then leave. and there is some time elapse thing that occurs when you travel at light years so if it took some aliens 500 years to get here, and then it took 500 years to get back (1000years) there planet wouldve evolved 100,000,000 of years! and the odds of them finding us out of the huge universe out there, and millions of other stars (suns) is extremely slim!!!!!!! and why would aliens look anything like us? (arms legs and eyes like they show in pics) if you where blind deaf and paralyzed from the neck down for all of youre life, and locked in a room and then someone asked you to explain what a human looks like, you couldnt do it!!! and all that you are is matter, there is no soul!!! youre thoughts are just chemical balances and imbalances!!! youre just matter with chemicals and shit that makes you want to reproduce (the trickery of falling in love, trust me ive been there) and then you do, during youre little life you are chained up in jail and allowed no freedom what so ever, dont be fooled! we are all prisoners! dont feel lost, were all lost, and no one can find there way since the people living in a fantasy world with religion and presidents are holding us back. everyone is too worried about their 15 min of fame. one time i put a camera under a stack of books and taped my brother and his friends watching tv. they looked like fucking zombies!!! it was some crazy shit!! motionless and thoughless!

how do you expect people to watch the brady bunch without any lsd?


--------------------
the little kridders of nature; they dont know that thyre ugly!


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OfflineArCh_TemPlaR
enthusiast
Registered: 07/15/01
Posts: 200
Last seen: 21 years, 9 months
Re: levels [Re: Phyl]
    #372731 - 08/15/01 11:32 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

In reply to:

These are only my beliefs, and I could be totally wrong. In fact I probably am, but I'd like to see you prove it :)

When the spirit separates from the body, it moves into the next dimension. I compare this to moving through a gateway, rather than a separation of mind and body. The next dimension is a place very unlike this dimension, in that it is a non-physical dimension. Space and time do not exist in the liner way we understand them. Your surrounding are generated instantaneously by your thoughts and intents. This new dimension will be so alien to you, it will be as if you are being reborn, and you will be faced with the task of learning how reality works again, just as when you were a child in this reality.

As you pass through the next dimension and into higher and higher dimensions you become closer and more linked to the source. Eventually you can return to the source, where essentially you become god, and become a part of everything.




Hmmm.. Sounds like Holographic theory? The theory is based by two unorthodox thinkers [anti-cartesian] of our times: David Bohm [quantum physicist] and Karl Pribram [neurophysiologist]. The book bridging their works is, "Holographic Universe", by Michael Talbot. The author goes on to cite many other references from the likes of psychology and psychiatry to explain the relationship between the theory with paranormal and non-local experiences [NDE, OBE].


For Twilight


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OfflineArCh_TemPlaR
enthusiast
Registered: 07/15/01
Posts: 200
Last seen: 21 years, 9 months
Re: levels [Re: In(di)go]
    #372737 - 08/15/01 11:45 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

In reply to:

exyctly! gnrm23, that is exactly the way i see it... in fact, i?ve got a tatto about it... its a drop of water about to fall into the ocean... once i die, my body turns into dust... the tatto is gone, and that means the drop fell into the ocean... and i am one with the whole again...




Berry kool philosophy.. :) I see unity with peace when one can merge with the ocean in present life. I see unity with ascension when one can become a lightbody of the stars.. whether in the present, or the hereafter..

Soulstar
I see you as Angelic
Divine symmetry of Life
Beautiful truth to behold
Kissed with Inner Fire
BLest with Inner Light
The Grace of Transcendence
Before me


For Twilight


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OfflineLunuTrance520
Stranger
Registered: 01/22/01
Posts: 11
Loc: Southeastern U.S.A
Last seen: 22 years, 1 month
Re: levels [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #372804 - 08/16/01 02:15 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

How would it feel
thoughts stored unreal?
To conjor a dream
A break through a seam
possabillties unlimeted you shal redeam.
Not as easy as it sounds, nor hard as it appears
because light is the difference between mercky and clear.
Life controled by fastious dictation
With the antichrist with his own T.V station.
While your waiting for an imposter son of God who's self he will protect.
The beast comes in from behind you the place you'ed least exspect.
Media hype builds ivory towers
heavenly glitter from evil showers.
Change the meaning of life, our spirit we lost
Life only worth how much it cost
No talk of God the loves done been sold.
While the controller of all we hear and see sits back and counts our gold.
I heard of a man named jesus a prophet son of God,
who walks around performing miracals like Moses with a rod.
But I do believe this man is the creators son,
humble, thougtful not selfish well done.
Do without for others a sacrifice indeed.
Thats why the antichrist would be in the center of all greed.


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OfflinePhyl
old hand
Registered: 01/17/00
Posts: 597
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: levels [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #372805 - 08/16/01 02:16 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Hmmm.. Sounds like Holographic theory?
Holographic theory?

The book bridging their works is, "Holographic Universe", by Michael Talbot
Thanks, I'll check that out...

Take care

Phil



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OfflinePhyl
old hand
Registered: 01/17/00
Posts: 597
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: levels [Re: baloo]
    #372809 - 08/16/01 02:28 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

I?ve been playing with the idea that perhaps our ego does exist with us in the higher realm and that we incarnate the ego separate from the rest so we can view it in operation then take the necessary steps to adjust it.
This very act of separation means the separated part would need some kind of limited temporary consciousness, which is us and which is discarded or reintegrated upon completion.


The way I see it, the temporary consciousness is your ego. I see the ego simply as a mechanism to allow existance in the 3 Dimensional realm, and is created by combining information from your senses with aspects of your subconscious. Once you leave the 3 Dimensional realm your ego will disolve, as it is it unable to comprehend non-linear space and time.

Anyway, It's early and my brain hasn't kicked in yet, so I won't go on.

Take care

Phil


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Invisiblebaloo
Stranger
Registered: 08/14/01
Posts: 14
Re: levels [Re: Phyl]
    #372916 - 08/16/01 08:52 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

I am of the mind that the hereafter isn?t the commonly held heaven or hell as two distinct realities. Nor do I believe that we just lay around in utter bliss or pain. but even if we did, we would need some kind of ego to be able to appreciate our predicament at the time. We would still need a sense of identity separate from the mass around us. And to appreciate experience we would still have to be able to say the basic ?I Am?.
If this holds water then perhaps it is our ?id? or subconscious that will no longer apply.



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Invisiblebaloo
Stranger
Registered: 08/14/01
Posts: 14
Re: levels [Re: aluminum_can]
    #372920 - 08/16/01 09:03 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

aluminum_can
Very good points.
But not very exciting is it?
The road you?re on leads to depression and violence.
But that?s OK
It is your path right now
At least you are facing reality honestly



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Offlinegnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/29/99
Posts: 6,488
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
Re: levels [Re: aluminum_can]
    #373000 - 08/16/01 10:57 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

oy
sound like koan: what was your original face before your parents were born?
word is spelled "mormon" & they got a special addition to the christian bible, dleivered & recovered by a bona fide angel (moroni) in NY in the early 1800s to joseph smith...
~~~
buncha molecules bumpin into each other?
"random chance is insufficient to explain random chance... (heinlein)
~~~
aliens? well, your timescales are skewed a bit... why million of light years? our local galaxy is maybe 30,000 l.y across (=/-) and there are a lot of g type stars within a spere 100 ly radius... with a decent bussard ramjet & shielding, a high-tech civilization could approach lightspeed in under 10 years... and the time dilation effect once you're past 95% C is quite noticable... and this assumes starfaring civilizations would be using constant accel/decel technology (one might hope for other intersting techs to become available as a species' knowledge/wisdom/power increases )
clarke: a sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic)
your "belief system" seems a bit nihilistic... when i think of an agnostic with a heart, i remember dr sagan... (yes, he did seem a bit immersed in"scientism", but some of those physicists seem to do much more than rage against the blind machinery of the universe, don'tchathink?)
~~~
me, well i don't think i've got a patent on any "big answers" but it's always fascinating to ponder on a few of the "big questions"...
~~~
and ah hello markos my friend... hmmmm, mahayanist christianity, hehheh... ain't nothin wrong with that... i hope you and yr lady are very well indeed...
~~~
"thinking young and growing older surely is no sin
and i can play this game of life to win'
(goin' back/c.king(&the byrds/notorious byrd brothers...)...)
~~~
& leave it on!!!

old enough to know better
not old enough to care


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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OfflinePhyl
old hand
Registered: 01/17/00
Posts: 597
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: levels [Re: baloo]
    #373061 - 08/16/01 12:55 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

We would still need a sense of identity separate from the mass around us
I don't believe we would be separate from the mass around us as without the physical I don't think such as distinction can be made. In a non-physical dimension, I believe our realities would manifest themselves from our consciousness, and our identity would be our reality.

And to appreciate experience we would still have to be able to say the basic ?I Am?.
To say 'I' implies a singular identity, but I think we would exists as everything, essentially being infinite.

Does that make any sense? Dammit... language fails me sometimes :)

Take care

Phil


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Invisiblebaloo
Stranger
Registered: 08/14/01
Posts: 14
Re: levels [Re: Phyl]
    #373158 - 08/16/01 04:00 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

?To say 'I' implies a singular identity, but I think we would exists as everything, essentially being infinite.?-
An existence like this would not support such things as demons, angels, spirits, ghosts etc. Each operating from an individual premise whether in support of a consensus reality or a singular delusional state such as our own.


?I? is the delusion of an illusion?



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OfflineHB
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Registered: 04/06/01
Posts: 42,528
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: levels [Re: baloo]
    #373189 - 08/16/01 04:54 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

i don't really care what anybody says but aluminum_can is a genius. it is the same way i think about it: if you were nothing before you were born, why would you be something after? if there is heaven and hell, then why wouldn't animals go? why just humans? if adam and eve existed, where the fuck did they come from? if god created the universe, where did he come from?

too many questions for me to believe anything about religion. i just believe religion is human's way of kidding ourselves into thinking that there will be something else after this life or that being "good" in this life will help you in the "next life." i think its all BS. live your life, i highly doubt you'll have another. all we are are organisms with organs that make us move and breathe; nothing more. but i guess we'll all see when the day comes that each of us fade away.

We're all MADD here...

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Offlinespiralviral
Stranger
Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 4
Last seen: 21 years, 1 month
Re: levels [Re: HB]
    #373496 - 08/17/01 03:06 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

I totally agree. Not that it makes any difference anyway.

If there was another "level" I wonder why people think mushrooms connect you to it? I find a biochemical imbalance causing an altered perception of the same reality to be more believable.


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Offlinebatou
artist

Registered: 05/06/00
Posts: 398
Loc: colorado
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: levels [Re: spiralviral]
    #373501 - 08/17/01 03:21 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

hummmmm, where to start....

Any one ever seen "defending your life" ?? in my personal view that is how it is. once one dies they have to prove their readyness to move on to a higher level. just a thought-- feed back/critisim is welcome.

The multiple troubles of man,
My brother, like slander and pain
Amaze you? Consider the heart
That holds them all in strangeness
And doesn't break.
"The Dude abides..."--jeffrey lebowski


--------------------
The multiple troubles of man,
My brother, like slander and pain
Amaze you? Consider the heart
That holds them all in strangeness
And doesn't break.
"The Dude abides..."--jeffrey lebowski

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InvisiblePynchon
Slow Learner

Registered: 04/28/01
Posts: 578
Loc: New Zealand
Re: levels [Re: spiralviral]
    #373550 - 08/17/01 06:17 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

I would say that when the perception of reality is altered, it automatically becomes another "level". I'm sceptical of attaching mystical significance to it, tho'.


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Offline~`Tursiops truncatus`~
enthusiast

Registered: 11/01/00
Posts: 105
Loc: CO... UsA
Last seen: 22 years, 2 months
Re: levels [Re: Pynchon]
    #373568 - 08/17/01 06:50 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

This is something that has made me wonder. . . Would egos even exsist if we didin't have verbal languages>?


Words fool us into thinking that we are separate...

Words fool us into thinking...

Words just fool us...



Cultivation of telepathy... it will unlock many doors and break down many walls...


Peace<><><><>


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OfflineLOBO
Vagabond

Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
Re: levels [Re: batou]
    #373591 - 08/17/01 08:12 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

I will put another spin on the idea.
I feel and belive by personal experience, That we live and experience things in several levels at once but we are not awere of whats going on on the other levels, is like if you are having a conversation with somebody but at the same time you are transmmiting other things at a different level.
It is hard to explain this but I had this "doble memories" and I expecxt that they may be even more levels.


"We have infinite possibilities of existence"


--------------------

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OfflineSampson
member
Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 154
Last seen: 21 years, 10 months
Re: levels [Re: aluminum_can]
    #374410 - 08/19/01 02:16 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

that is interesting. i think genetic code is how one would see themselves before they were born. your right we do not have a lot of freedom because we are all written into a program. we all start out with basically the same hardware, our individuality depends on what software(life experience) is plugged in from there(which i find quite funny because we consider thought unique even though it is just a copy of other thoughts- we all want to know "God's" thoughts but can you achieve origin with copies of copies). however, in rare cases our code is deviated for the better- Einstein(sp). then there are not so rare cases where the code is deviated for the worse- genetic disease.

your existance is chemical. altered states are your elements. ~me


--------------------
your existance is chemical. altered states are your elements. ~me

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OfflineSampson
member
Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 154
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Re: levels [Re: Sampson]
    #374414 - 08/19/01 02:18 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

perhaps genetic knowledge is another level.

your existance is chemical. altered states are your elements. ~me


--------------------
your existance is chemical. altered states are your elements. ~me

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OfflineColtergeist
Stranger
Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 2
Loc: Canada, Alberta
Last seen: 22 years, 6 months
Re: levels [Re: Sampson]
    #375923 - 08/21/01 09:23 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

With respect to levels, what kind of ?levels? of being do insects have? I mean?does a small bug even experience things like humans (hunger, joy, the color red) They must be hungry but do they feel the raw sensation of hunger. Do they have the same sort of visceral consciousness overlaid on all thoughts, stimlus and actions that we humans do and would anyone consider that a level of being anyways? And if our minds or whatever go into another dimension when we die, do bugs go there too? Even if they are just complicated robots walking around with no real consciousness?
That?s a lot of questions with no answers?but I?d like to know what you all think!



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OfflinePhyl
old hand
Registered: 01/17/00
Posts: 597
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: levels [Re: Phyl]
    #376094 - 08/22/01 02:11 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

The book bridging their works is, "Holographic Universe", by Michael Talbot
Thanks, I'll check that out...


Believe it or not, I actually did, and I would recommend this book to everyone. It put's forwards some very interesting ideas, and provides a theory that integrates science and spirituality. I'm not sure I agree with absoloutly everything in the book, but it mostly agrees with my view of reality and consciousness


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OfflineArCh_TemPlaR
enthusiast
Registered: 07/15/01
Posts: 200
Last seen: 21 years, 9 months
Re: Hologram [Re: Phyl]
    #380270 - 08/27/01 08:15 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Ah, I thought the book will compliment your belief structure.

This link introduces the science behind holographic imaging [by Prideaux J]:
http://www.acsa2000.net/bcngroup/jponkp/#chap2

The word "holography" is derived from Greek roots meaning "complete writing". The idea is that every part of "the writing" contains information about the whole. A hologram (the material manifestation of a holograph) is a photographic emulsion in which information about a scene is recorded in a very special way. When the hologram is illuminated, you see a realistic, three-dimensional representation of the scene. If you cut the holographic photographic plate up into small pieces, the whole image can still be extracted from any of them (although with some loss of clarity). Pribram uses the term holonomy to refer to a dynamic (or changing) hologram.


*** Karl Pribram bases his work on the brain as being holographic: as a synthesizer and by how it stores sensory perceptions and memories. There has been experiments done on the visual system of the brain by using Fourier mathematics to prove his "holonomic brain theory." Basically, Pribram asserts:

1. the brain stores a memory by distributing the holographic impression all over its systems, where each part holds the entire impression.

2. the brain essentially uses fourier principles to transform domains [like visual, sound]

3 Hence, hologram, brain, and fourier are operating interdependently

*** In "Holographic Universe", the author defines the Fourier mathematics as:

Roughly speaking what Fourier developed was a mathematical way of converting any pattern, no matter how complex, into a language of simple waves. He also showed how these wave forms could be converted back into the original pattern. In other words, just as a television camera converts an image into electromagnetic frequencies and a television set converts those frequencies back into the original image, Fourier showed how a similar process could be achieved mathematically. The equations he developed to convert images into wave forms and back again are known as Fourier transforms.

*** As for me, I don't exacly disagree with the author's statements about the holographic quality with other phenonemon [NDE, OBE, parnanormal]. My complaint is he doesn't make a clearcut connection or explain it better.

For Twilight


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OfflineEuphoricDream
Seeker

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 17
Last seen: 21 years, 2 months
Re: levels [Re: aluminum_can]
    #381165 - 08/28/01 11:53 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

Alot of times i wonder if the things that aluminum_can said are true. Maybe we are all just fooling ourselves. I found what he said about being no differant when u die then when u are born really thought provoking. I had never looked at it like that before. But my only problem with this whole theory is that like when al_can says it is so impossible or unlikely that aliens would find and travel to our planet out of such an incomprehensibly vast universe, then what do u think about life itself. Did we arise simply because out of pure chance a bunch of differant atoms combined in a way that they suddenly started to move intentionaly, reproduce, and eventually think. I just cant buy that. The bilogical processes that go on in your body every second seem to be to complex to credit to pure chance. I dont claim to have the answer, i question whether there is something more out there everyday. But there are times that i just cant deny that i feel connected to something greater. Yes this deffinentlty happens when i trip but it also sometimes happens at the most random times in my daily life. Its just a feeling you get in your gut that u cant deny no matter how rational u try to be. At these times i feel that we are all part of something far greater than oursevles alone.


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OfflineKremlin Happy Birthday!
life in E minor
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Registered: 06/07/01
Posts: 1,860
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Re: levels [Re: EuphoricDream]
    #381407 - 08/29/01 12:01 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

you can go on for days and days about this kind of stuff, and thats why i love hallucinogens. All we know is what we experience every day because of the chemical reactions in our bodies from oxygen and the atmosphere....10% of our brains are used...thats an insanely small amount. I believe that our bodies are shackles (not necessarily negative) that dont let us connect with our spiritual self 100% of the time, and that meditation and hallucinogens let us temporarily connect with our spiritual selves, like counseling for our lives almost. When our time on earth in our bodies is done, who is to say what happens, i think we return to that pure euphoria and spirituality that you experience for a brief time with the aid of hallucinogens.
As per what Aluminum_Can said about aliens, yah thats another mind-blowing thing to think about. We are who and what we are because of our environments, 100%...so we could not even begin to guess what life on other planets would be like, since there are no environments like ours on those planets. For all we know they could be transparent floating blobs of jelly that you could barely see, hehe.
Hallucinogens have changed my life, to the extent of even changing my entire outlook on life. My experiences have led to the changing of my major in college right now, and all of my goals in life. Im majoring in psychology and i plan to move into Neuropsychology and join the research on drugs and the mind.

who knows what will be unlocked in my time with research...

--Kremlin



--------------------
"Human suffering has been caused because all too many of us cannot grasp that words are only tools for our use, and that the mere presence of a word in the dictionary does not mean it necessarily refers to something definitive in the real world"
--Richard Dawkins, "The Selfish Gene"

"It is the mind which creates the world about us, and even though we stand side by side in the same meadow, my eyes will never see what is beheld by yours."
-George Gissing

"Without a firm idea of himself and the purpose of his life, man cannot live, and would sooner destroy himself than remain on earth, even if he was surrounded by bread."
--Fyodor Dostoevsky

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OfflineMighty Bop
Big Boy

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 1,994
Loc: Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: levels [Re: Kremlin]
    #381730 - 08/29/01 08:21 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

YOU ARE HERE NOW.



--------------------
I got a buddy with United Fruit, get ya started...

Trade List

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