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 Ellis Dee
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 The U.N. gun confiscation agenda 
#358183 - 07/21/01 06:10 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Here it is folks. The 4 main goals of the current UN gun conference as of July 17, 01.
"First, the document still moves in the direction of urging a legally binding instrument."
"Second, it would still prevent any transfer of weapons to non-state actors such as freedom fighters opposing a tyrannical or genocidal regime."
"Third, it would move in the direction of a prohibition of private gun ownership."
"Fourth, it would give gun control groups an institutionalized role within the U.N."
"Basically the U.N. is sticking it to us!"
For the complete story click on:
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/7/17/160924.shtml
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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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Ellis Dee
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Ellis Dee]
#358185 - 07/21/01 06:15 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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PS
In reply to:
Quote:
"Second, it would still prevent any transfer of weapons to non-state actors such as freedom fighters opposing a tyrannical or genocidal regime."
Under the UN policy George Washington would have no weapons and we would all still be British subjects.
And God bless George Washington and all his and my guns.
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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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holographic mind
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Ellis Dee]
#358187 - 07/21/01 07:07 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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what about particle beam plasma assualt cells? or liquid laser nuclear war heads? but seriously... what the fuck? why shouldn't freedom fighters opposing a GENOCIDAL regime be allowed weapons?
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Phluck
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Ellis Dee]
#359925 - 07/24/01 08:57 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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They're sticking it to you by taking away your killing devices?
Fucking americans, you don't need guns.
Guns are for assholes.
Something like ten times as many kids are killed accidentally by privately owned guns than people are killed in self defense. You're never going to use the guns to overthrow your government.
I can't be the only one who thinks that it is a little creepy for a society to guarantee the right to own a weapon designed for the purpose of killing human beings.
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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
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Booger
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It's fairly obvious that the U.N. wants to monopolize the "freedom fighter" market, and this means they don't want "the competition" to have any weapons.
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Ellis Dee
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Phluck]
#359934 - 07/24/01 09:17 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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I was raised with guns. The first time I fired a .22 rifle I'm sure I was no older than 6. I was instructed in safe and responsible firearms handeling from an early age. I grew up hunting with my grandfather (my mom and dad were divorced) and I learned that if I shot an animal it was my responsibility to clean it. We would shoot rabbits and squirils and and clean them, (we had a freezer for just our killed animals) put them in the freezer and eat them all winter long. I can't count the amount of venison I've eaten. Sometimes We would have it 2 or 3 meals a day. If it wasen't for being able to hunt and kill animals that are 'in season' we might have resorted to getting food from charities (we were not wealthy people). I have so many fond memories of things like that.
Now I'm in my 20's. I still hunt and fish. I enjoy it. I also shoot competetivly. I shoot trap, sporting clays, and bullseye pistol matches (sponsored by the NRA), and I'm a member of the NRA. I reload my own bullets in .45 ACP for bullseye shooting and practice. I pride myself on being able to shoot well and on being safe doing so.
Actually there are slightly more justified shootings than there are accidental ones. I find it offensive that people so commonly associate responsible gun owners with criminals. We are law abiding people that have a good hobby that builds character, like the way some people enjoy golf is how I think of it.
I believe in self defence if your life or your familys life is in danger. And I know for a fact that if I am ever in such a situation where I have to defend myself or my family that I will do so quickly and competently, with lethal force if necessary. I do not believe in violence and I'm not a violent person but if I had to make a choice of either me/ my family or a criminal the criminal would be the one dead. This is my right as a free American and I cherish it.
I despise hearing stories of deer that were killed and not refrigerated soon enough and had to be discarded. That is illresponsible and wasteful. I never even handle guns when I'm intoxicated and I view doing so as dangerous. I believe my gun handeling experience is typical of responsible gun owners across America.
The reason I seem so militant on this subject is because of who I am and how I was raised. 'Gun control' is an attack on my way of life and on my freedom to be able to adaquetly protect my own life and the lives of my family that I love. I hope that now people that didn't understand where I was coming from do, and more importantly realize that guns are an important part of American life. Guns are as American as apple pie.
And someday when I have children I will teach them as I was taught.
I origionaly posted this almost the exact same thing at poppies.org a couple days ago under the nick Maxwell when I got in an argument with a frenchmen about gun rights. So this isn't plagurized because I wrote it, in case anyone else saw it there.Edited by Rail_Gun on 07/24/01 10:19 AM.
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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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Phyl
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Ellis Dee]
#359948 - 07/24/01 09:44 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Guns are as American as apple pie.
I think this is what this argument comes down to. Many Americans want to own guns, and if prohibited you would see a huge rise in the number of illegal, unregulated, possibly dangerous guns. Just as with the war on drugs, a war on guns would be just as damaging.
On the other hand, in the UK (Where I live), people do not generally desire guns. In this situation, gun prohibition works.
Take care
Phil
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 Innvertigo
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Phluck]
#359963 - 07/24/01 10:15 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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****Fucking americans, you don't need guns...Guns are for assholes.****
that has to be the dumbest thing i've heard you say..er..type...your proving to be a bigger dork than i first thought
****Something like ten times as many kids are killed accidentally by privately owned guns than people are killed in self defense. ****
I'm sure you have statistics to back your rediculus claims?......
****You're never going to use the guns to overthrow your government.****
How do you think we became a country numb-nuts?
****I can't be the only one who thinks that it is a little creepy for a society to guarantee the right to own a weapon designed for the purpose of killing human beings.****
It's called the 2nd amendment of the US constitution...we enjoy it...you don't..too bad
Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....
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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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zetek
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Ellis Dee]
#359990 - 07/24/01 11:29 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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In reply to:
'Gun control' is an attack on my way of life and on my freedom to be able to adaquetly protect my own life and the lives of my family that I love.
Hey Rail Gun, I am all for hunting and protecting your family and I am a gun control advocate. Those are legitimate reasons to have guns, but those aren't the type of guns that are the target of gun control. No one needs a weapon that was solely designed for killing a lot of humans very quickly. The kind gangbangers like to use. They're not out defending people against a tyrranical government are they? You don't need an automatic assault weapon to hunt or defend your family do you?
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jihead
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: zetek]
#360020 - 07/24/01 12:08 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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"No one needs a weapon that was solely designed for killing a lot of humans very quickly. The kind gangbangers like to use. They're not out defending people against a tyrranical government are they? You don't need an automatic assault weapon to hunt or defend your family do you?"
you exactly right on this one. the only problem is, there are already about 5,000 or so laws preventing thes3e people getting these guns and they still do anyway. so what then, make it illegal for everyone to own guns so the gangbangers can be armed to the teeth illegally and the standard joe=suburbanite can defend himself with a head of lettuce? the perfect analogy is that of drug prohibition, it only makes criminals out of people who would partake in the action regardless of legal status.
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Innvertigo
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: zetek]
#360037 - 07/24/01 12:30 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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****but those aren't the type of guns that are the target of gun control*****
On the contrary, hand guns are being targeted as well. Through feel-good gun programs like trigger locks and smart guns for parents and adults that are too stupid to keep their guns where their kids can't get to it. Personally i don't see a need to have a auto fire AK-47 (which is illegal from what i remember). I could be wrong but don't you have to have a special permit to get an autofire assalt gun? If so that tells me it's legal to have.
****No one needs a weapon that was solely designed for killing a lot of humans very quickly. The kind gangbangers like to use. ****
The kind of weapons that the gang-bangers are illegal and usually sold and bought on the black market. Can you tell me how gun control advocates will stop the gangbangers from getting these weapons? Remember the old supply and demand scenerio.
Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Innvertigo
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: jihead]
#360039 - 07/24/01 12:32 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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you took the wind out of my sails... :)
Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....
--------------------
America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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zetek
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: jihead]
#360111 - 07/24/01 03:14 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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In reply to:
what then, make it illegal for everyone to own guns so the gangbangers can be armed to the teeth illegally and the standard joe=suburbanite can defend himself with a head of lettuce?
It's not illegal for law-abiding Joe Suburbanite to have a handgun to defend himself with, nor should it be. But I don't think Joe Suburbanite needs an "assault weapon" to make the playing field level between him and the gangbangers. There are some on the gun rights side that believe they have every right to possess "assault weapons," even if they are only going to hang them on their wall, shoot at junk cars, etc. Obviously the reason for controlling these weapons is to keep them out of the hands of people who would kill others with them. I see a bit of a difference between the prohibition of guns vs. drugs, because generally it is an individual's choice whether they ingest a drug. Most gangbangers don't ask if they may shoot you.
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http://go.to/FreeSporeRingEdited by zetek on 07/24/01 09:54 PM.
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zetek
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Innvertigo]
#360113 - 07/24/01 03:24 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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In reply to:
Can you tell me how gun control advocates will stop the gangbangers from getting these weapons?
No I can't. But if it keeps RedNeck Ed from owning one and therefore the classmates of Ed's kid have a better chance of getting away before they're all shot up, then I gotta think that helps a little. And I completely agree with you, these parents need to be more responsible and keep their guns out of reach of their kids.
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zetek
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Innvertigo]
#360282 - 07/24/01 08:22 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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I gave this a little bit more thought Innvertigo. Why do gangs exist anyway? I think it is because they are defending drug territory. Just like Al Capone did when alcohol was prohibited. Legalize drugs and gangs won't have a reason to exist. That reduces/eliminates the violent gun crimes committed by gangbangers.
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Innvertigo
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: zetek]
#360633 - 07/25/01 10:10 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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****But if it keeps RedNeck Ed from owning one and therefore the classmates of Ed's kid have a better chance of getting away before they're all shot up, then I gotta think that helps a little****
That makes no sense. Are you saying that it's dangerous if a "REDNECK" or someone of a lesser social status has a gun? That's a TAD elitist. What makes a redneck any more likley to be irresponsible than a family headed by a CEO...or a hippy for that matter.
the truth shines through.....
Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....
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Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Innvertigo
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: zetek]
#360643 - 07/25/01 10:30 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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****Why do gangs exist anyway? I think it is because they are defending drug territory****
In a lot of places yeah but there are gang members who are control freaks that cause trouble for the sake of causing trouble....personally i believe them to be cowards. They can't do anything for themselves but need a lot of other thugs to "bach them up".
****That reduces/eliminates the violent gun crimes committed by gangbangers****
What about those not in a gang that rape, kill and steal? If you eliminate guns we will be at the mercy of the black market.
Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....
--------------------
America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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zetek
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Innvertigo]
#360713 - 07/25/01 01:10 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ah, did that stereotype hit a little too close to home?
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Innvertigo
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: zetek]
#360716 - 07/25/01 01:15 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Actually no........i'm not a redneck but i don't look at people like you liberals do. Your classifications are proof that you have no idea what the hell you're talking about. But don't feel bad.....most liberals don't.
Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....
--------------------
America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Phyl
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Innvertigo]
#360767 - 07/25/01 02:53 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Are you saying that it's dangerous if a "REDNECK" or someone of a lesser social status has a gun?
What drives a person to shoot someone else? Obviously they have some kind of deep psychological instability. Now think about who is likely to have more stability, someone who has had a stable upbringing such as a child of a CEO, or someone of 'lesser social status'?
I mean think about it... A nepalese prince or someone of similar standing for example isn't likely to shoot his family... Dammit... Another theory out the window :)
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Ellis Dee
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Ellis Dee]
#360811 - 07/25/01 04:22 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Contrary to what some have stated there are legitamate sporting reasons for a person to have military style rifles. There are some long distance rifle matches in which it is only permited to use rifles that are identical in design to US military rifles. In those matches people generaly use an AR-15 that looks identical to the military issued M-16A1'a and AR-15 that Colt and General Motors makes for them. Personaly I've never been interisted in long distance rifle shooting and that's partly because of the difficulty of attaining accuracy at the distances involved. I have a lot of respect for those that are in to it. The so called assault rifles can also be used for huntingin many states. The bullet fired from AK-74 style rifles has very similar ballistics to the more popular .308 caliber used for hunting. It is a legitamate choice if you do centerfire hunting. There ARE legitamate sporting purposes for 'assault style' rifles. Personaly I bought an AR-15 rifle and have not really used it much except for a small amount of range work, when I got it I was wanting to do long distance competition but changed my mind.
Someone mentioned that it is only the guns used by gangsters that are being targeted by gun control. Then a discussion ensued about what guns gangsters use. It has been my thought that gang bangers generaly use stolen guns. Kind of hard to target stoloen guns for control, isn't it?
Gun control efforts are targeted (no pun intended) at us non gang members. The main types of weapons that gun control groups want to take away from us are handguns (Anyone hear of hand gun control Inc.). Many proponents of gun control want ALL privatly owned firearms confiscated. The main tactic involved with the confiscation of privatly owned firearms in America is incrementalism. By taking away our rights a little at a time is a more insidious way of doing it than all at once.
I participate in legitamate firearms sports with handguns as well. I shoot in 'Bullseye pistol' shooting with .45 and .22 caliber pistols. And I'm damn proud of my shooting too.
Zetec has showed his true agenda. He is a bigoted hateful person that wants to get firearms away from dangerous 'rednecks'. As a country boy myself, I am offended by his ignorant stereotypical, bigoted, and obviously hateful remarks. He has showed what he really is. He is a bigot!
Game animals no longer have many natural predators as they once did. No longer do wolves and mountain lions stalk and kill animals. Now that role is maintained by hunters. Those of us that hunt serve an important role to the ecosystem. We thin the populations every season. For instance if for some reason there are to many deer in a given area they slowly and agonizingly starve to death. Every year in areas that do not allow hunting they find the rotting carcasses of hundreads of deer that have slowly and painfully starved to death because not enough food was available for them all. Responsible hunting prevents such suffering for the animals and provides us with a food source. To not allow hunting would be inhumane to animals. And what group of people perform the mojority of this necesary hunting? Well us country folks! Around here the local schools have a day off on the first day of hunting season because no one would show up if they had school. Everyone is out hunting!
There is a giant contrast between the citys and the country when it comes to gun perception. For instance I hunt and participate in gun sports because I get food, and because I like it. That's how most of us in the country think of guns. In the city they seem to be associated with gangs and defence only. People in cities don't enjoy the sportsmanship of guns as much as us in rural areas. That is sad that generations grow up not hunting or knowing how to responsibly handle firearms.
There was also a theme in this thread to keep 'rednecks' from having guns. This is a direct attack on my way of life by people that have been shown to be ignorant, bigoted and hateful. I can't even imagine why anyone would not want us to be allowed to target shoot orhunt our own food. It seems crazy to me. And if they ever do succeed it will devastate ecology across the country and bring great suffering and starvation to large numbers of animals that would otherwise be my supper.
Edited by Rail_Gun on 07/25/01 05:26 PM.
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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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zetek
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Ellis Dee]
#360833 - 07/25/01 05:08 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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In reply to:
Zetec has showed his true agenda. He is a bigoted hateful person that wants to get firearms away from dangerous 'rednecks'. As a country boy myself, I am offended by his ignorant stereotypical, bigoted, and obviously hateful remarks. He has showed what he really is. He is a bigot!
Haha, you figured me out Rail Gun, I am extremely prejudiced toward rural folk! (Just between you and me dude, I grew up in a small farming community, pop. 1600, where all of my ancestors were farmers. I am very much a country boy myself. One of these days, I'm even going to give turkey hunting a go.)
It doesn't have to be RedNeck Ed, it could be Prince Edward or Senator Edward, or Dr. Ed, or Mr. Ed. I chose to use a stereotype in my satire -
Satire: (n.) sat?ire 1. the use of irony, sarcasm, ridicule, or the like, in exposing, denouncing, or deriding vice, folly, etc.
Here's some more satire:
Firearms: Handguns Are For Pussies
Friends & Neighbors: Dealing With Tresspassers
Enjoy!
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Innvertigo
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Phyl]
#361225 - 07/26/01 07:42 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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****I mean think about it... A nepalese prince or someone of similar standing for example isn't likely to shoot his family... Dammit... Another theory out the window :)****
I was just about to counter with that incident but you stole my fire......but what i can say is social status has nothing to do with rational thinking...at least when guns are concerned.
Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....
--------------------
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Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Innvertigo
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: zetek]
#361227 - 07/26/01 07:51 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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you're a very sad individual....
but i really liked the " I was kidding" defense...nice touch
Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....
--------------------
America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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zetek
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Innvertigo]
#361315 - 07/26/01 10:54 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Whatever; using a stereotype does not make me a bigot. Is Dave Letterman a bigot when he makes jokes about taxi drivers in NYC?
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go.to/FreeSporeRingEdited by zetek on 07/26/01 12:38 PM. Edited by zetek on 07/26/01 12:52 PM.
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zetek
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Innvertigo]
#361360 - 07/26/01 11:56 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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In reply to:
i don't look at people like you liberals do. Your classifications are proof that you have no idea what the hell you're talking about
What makes you think I'm a liberal? Aren't you classifying me?
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Innvertigo
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: zetek]
#361424 - 07/26/01 02:06 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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who said i called you a biggot?....maybe it was your conscience.....
****What makes you think I'm a liberal? Aren't you classifying me?****
nope....just your beliefs system...to bad
Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....
--------------------
America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Ellis Dee]
#361452 - 07/26/01 03:16 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Here in the UK most people consider extensive regualtion of the gun market to be a good thing. The personal ownership of handguns has now been banned, so only special police firearms units and vets are generally allowed to own guns. This is good, it works for this country where police do not routinely carry guns. Looking at the US though, it seems that gun ownership is so widespread that any further regulation wil be more likely to remove weapons from those seeking to defend themselves than from those possesing with intent to commit criminal acts.
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PGF
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Phluck]
#361466 - 07/26/01 03:39 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Phluck, you were joking right?
Fucking Canadians, there's too much French blood in ya.
Who said guns are just for overthrowing the gubbmint?
No one. Guns are for self-defense, sport, hunting, and shooting road signs. These are all legitimate uses of a firearm. Criminalizing weapons does one thing, raises the crime rate. The fact that kids find guns and are hurt or worse is the fault of the parents only. It's really no different than a kid finding his parents drug stash and hurting or killing themselves. It's no different than a kid swallowing some red devil lye that his dad left in the middle of the floor unattended. Should drugs and red devil lye, electrical outlets, dogs that bite, all sharp pointy things and objects that toddlers may choke on be outlawed? No, of course not. Should a parent's negligent behavior be punished? Yes, and it is, often.
Should Canadians stay out of things that don't concern them? Absolutely. We don't care aboot your ice fishing, nasty beer, ugly women, or whale massacres and you should not be concerned with our right to bear arms.
jsuttherlandIII@dea.gov
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zetek
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: mm.]
#361469 - 07/26/01 03:43 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Gun regulations in the US are not aimed at removing weapons from those seeking to defend themselves, nor is that their effect. Regulations are aimed at keeping people that for one reason or another should not have guns, from getting them. And despite what some will say, those laws do work. People that interpret the 2nd amendment as being absolute view those laws as interfering with their right "to bear arms," eg. they should not have to wait before they purchase a gun or should not be limited in the number of guns they purchase. None of the rights guaranteed by our U.S. Constitution are absolute, because there will alway be situations where they conflict. Even though I am guaranteed Freedom of Speech, I cannot yell "Fire" in a crowded movie theater because other people have the right not to be injured in the mayhem that would result from me doing that. It is the same with guns. (I think this has largely been covered in the WOD thread.)
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Innvertigo
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: zetek]
#361860 - 07/27/01 06:06 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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****None of the rights guaranteed by our U.S. Constitution are absolute,*****
Well the truth comes shining through. The rights were intended on being absolute. unfortunatly the namby pamby spineless liberals consider the constitution as a liquid document and you're no different. So can we assume that YOUR freedom of speech should be adjusted to fit a particular instance?
****I cannot yell "Fire" in a crowded movie theater because other people have the right not to be injured in the mayhem that would result from me doing that****
So can we assume that YOUR freedom of speech should be adjusted to fit a particular instance?..ie: demonstrations...can you say GENOA. The intention of the constitution was to grant rights as long as they don't conflict with others..hence yelling fire in a theatre can kill peopl through a stampede.....
****I think this has largely been covered in the WOD thread****
i'm not involved with that discussion so i can careless
Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....
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Ellis Dee
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: mm.]
#361871 - 07/27/01 06:47 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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MM, a citizen of the U.K. has mentioned that in his homeland guns have been confiscated from law abiding citizens. Now what are the effects of these kinds of policies? When legal firearms are removed from the ownership of ordinary people crime increases.
Newcastle, in the north of England is now the most dangerous city in the industrialized world. Britians home office, more of less equivelant to our Justice Department reports that "incidence of violence against the person" which includes aggravated assult, rape, and murder, are the highest in Newcastle with a rate of 236.5 per 1,000 residents.
Home burglaries and auto thefts occur 50 percent more frequently in Britain than in the U.S. Even worse is there is 75 percent more rapes in Britain than in the U.S., even though Britain has only about 25 percent of our population.
It is no coincidence that the lowest rate of home burglaries in the world is in Switzerland. In Switzerland every male of draft age is required by law to keep an 'assult rifle' and nearly all of the population own guns. They also have a national holiday to celibrate good marksmanship.
If guns are taken away crime increases. Empower citizens with concealed carry permits and more gun ownership and crime decreases. What part of this do people not understand?
Edited by Rail_Gun on 07/27/01 07:49 AM.
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Innvertigo
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Ellis Dee]
#361916 - 07/27/01 09:05 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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well said...i couldn't agree more....but you have to remember that gun control freaks don't want to defend them selves. They want the Goverment "daddy" to protect them
Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Ellis Dee
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Innvertigo]
#361923 - 07/27/01 09:30 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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In reply to:
They want the Goverment "daddy" to protect them
Yeah, that is their mentaity. Even though there have been multiple Supreme Court court rulings which agree that it is not the responsibility of police to protect civilians, or even their responsibility to respond to emergency calls.
I'm a big boy, I can take care of myself.
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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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zetek
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Innvertigo]
#364356 - 07/31/01 08:27 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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"The rights were intended on being absolute."
"The intention of the constitution was to grant rights as long as they don't conflict with others..."
So which is it?
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Innvertigo
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: zetek]
#364591 - 08/01/01 06:03 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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****So which is it?****
HUH?
Rights can be absolute at the same time not conflicting with other's rights written in the constitution. Can you give me an example of a right that conflicts others rights granted by the constitution?
Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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zetek
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Innvertigo]
#364648 - 08/01/01 09:20 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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The following is copied and pasted. I think maybe we're defining "absolute" slightly differently?
In reply to:
The First Amendment guarantees freedom of speech. The U.S. Supreme Court, however, has ruled that this right is not absolute. For example, in 1969 in Watts v. United States, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld a federal law banning threats against the president. But the court stressed that a statute such as this one, which makes criminal a form of pure speech, must be interpreted with the commands of the First Amendment clearly in mind. What is a threat must be distinguished from what is constitutionally protected speech. The court ruled that only a true threat could be outlawed. In Watts, a Vietnam protester had been arrested during an anti-draft rally for stating "If they ever make me carry a rifle the first man I want to get in my sights is L.B.J. [President Lyndon Baines Johnson]." The court ruled that this was not a true threat but political hyperbole. The court declared that the First Amendment protects debate on public issues that is uninhibited, robust, and wide-open, and that it may well include vehement, caustic, and sometimes unpleasantly sharp attacks . . . .
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Innvertigo
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: zetek]
#364671 - 08/01/01 10:10 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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****I think maybe we're defining "absolute" slightly differently? ****
I think you're correct. I guess what i was saying is rights are absolute within the realm of not violating other's rights...but in the example you provide i believe you are correct.
Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....
--------------------
America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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zetek
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Innvertigo]
#365059 - 08/01/01 09:20 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Cool, glad we agree on something ;-)... I'm done with this thread; see ya' in others I'm sure...
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Innvertigo
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: zetek]
#365362 - 08/02/01 06:06 AM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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see you later...and i'm sure there will be more debates..... :)
Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....
--------------------
America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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