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OfflineEllis Dee
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Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 13,104
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #360811 - 07/25/01 04:22 PM (23 years, 13 hours ago)

Contrary to what some have stated there are legitamate sporting reasons for a person to have military style rifles. There are some long distance rifle matches in which it is only permited to use rifles that are identical in design to US military rifles. In those matches people generaly use an AR-15 that looks identical to the military issued M-16A1'a and AR-15 that Colt and General Motors makes for them. Personaly I've never been interisted in long distance rifle shooting and that's partly because of the difficulty of attaining accuracy at the distances involved. I have a lot of respect for those that are in to it. The so called assault rifles can also be used for huntingin many states. The bullet fired from AK-74 style rifles has very similar ballistics to the more popular .308 caliber used for hunting. It is a legitamate choice if you do centerfire hunting. There ARE legitamate sporting purposes for 'assault style' rifles. Personaly I bought an AR-15 rifle and have not really used it much except for a small amount of range work, when I got it I was wanting to do long distance competition but changed my mind.

Someone mentioned that it is only the guns used by gangsters that are being targeted by gun control. Then a discussion ensued about what guns gangsters use. It has been my thought that gang bangers generaly use stolen guns. Kind of hard to target stoloen guns for control, isn't it?

Gun control efforts are targeted (no pun intended) at us non gang members. The main types of weapons that gun control groups want to take away from us are handguns (Anyone hear of hand gun control Inc.). Many proponents of gun control want ALL privatly owned firearms confiscated. The main tactic involved with the confiscation of privatly owned firearms in America is incrementalism. By taking away our rights a little at a time is a more insidious way of doing it than all at once.

I participate in legitamate firearms sports with handguns as well. I shoot in 'Bullseye pistol' shooting with .45 and .22 caliber pistols. And I'm damn proud of my shooting too.

Zetec has showed his true agenda. He is a bigoted hateful person that wants to get firearms away from dangerous 'rednecks'. As a country boy myself, I am offended by his ignorant stereotypical, bigoted, and obviously hateful remarks. He has showed what he really is. He is a bigot!

Game animals no longer have many natural predators as they once did. No longer do wolves and mountain lions stalk and kill animals. Now that role is maintained by hunters. Those of us that hunt serve an important role to the ecosystem. We thin the populations every season. For instance if for some reason there are to many deer in a given area they slowly and agonizingly starve to death. Every year in areas that do not allow hunting they find the rotting carcasses of hundreads of deer that have slowly and painfully starved to death because not enough food was available for them all. Responsible hunting prevents such suffering for the animals and provides us with a food source. To not allow hunting would be inhumane to animals. And what group of people perform the mojority of this necesary hunting? Well us country folks! Around here the local schools have a day off on the first day of hunting season because no one would show up if they had school. Everyone is out hunting!

There is a giant contrast between the citys and the country when it comes to gun perception. For instance I hunt and participate in gun sports because I get food, and because I like it. That's how most of us in the country think of guns. In the city they seem to be associated with gangs and defence only. People in cities don't enjoy the sportsmanship of guns as much as us in rural areas. That is sad that generations grow up not hunting or knowing how to responsibly handle firearms.

There was also a theme in this thread to keep 'rednecks' from having guns. This is a direct attack on my way of life by people that have been shown to be ignorant, bigoted and hateful. I can't even imagine why anyone would not want us to be allowed to target shoot orhunt our own food. It seems crazy to me. And if they ever do succeed it will devastate ecology across the country and bring great suffering and starvation to large numbers of animals that would otherwise be my supper.

Edited by Rail_Gun on 07/25/01 05:26 PM.



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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

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Offlinezetek
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Registered: 04/28/01
Posts: 210
Loc: United States
Last seen: 22 years, 2 months
Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #360833 - 07/25/01 05:08 PM (23 years, 13 hours ago)

In reply to:

Zetec has showed his true agenda. He is a bigoted hateful person that wants to get firearms away from dangerous 'rednecks'. As a country boy myself, I am offended by his ignorant stereotypical, bigoted, and obviously hateful remarks. He has showed what he really is. He is a bigot!




Haha, you figured me out Rail Gun, I am extremely prejudiced toward rural folk! (Just between you and me dude, I grew up in a small farming community, pop. 1600, where all of my ancestors were farmers. I am very much a country boy myself. One of these days, I'm even going to give turkey hunting a go.)

It doesn't have to be RedNeck Ed, it could be Prince Edward or Senator Edward, or Dr. Ed, or Mr. Ed. I chose to use a stereotype in my satire -

Satire: (n.) sat?ire 1. the use of irony, sarcasm, ridicule, or the like, in exposing, denouncing, or deriding vice, folly, etc.

Here's some more satire:

Firearms: Handguns Are For Pussies

Friends & Neighbors: Dealing With Tresspassers

Enjoy!

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Phyl]
    #361225 - 07/26/01 07:42 AM (22 years, 11 months ago)

****I mean think about it... A nepalese prince or someone of similar standing for example isn't likely to shoot his family... Dammit... Another theory out the window :)****

I was just about to counter with that incident but you stole my fire......but what i can say is social status has nothing to do with rational thinking...at least when guns are concerned.

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: zetek]
    #361227 - 07/26/01 07:51 AM (22 years, 11 months ago)

you're a very sad individual....

but i really liked the " I was kidding" defense...nice touch

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Offlinezetek
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Registered: 04/28/01
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Last seen: 22 years, 2 months
Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Innvertigo]
    #361315 - 07/26/01 10:54 AM (22 years, 11 months ago)

Whatever; using a stereotype does not make me a bigot. Is Dave Letterman a bigot when he makes jokes about taxi drivers in NYC?


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Edited by zetek on 07/26/01 12:38 PM.

Edited by zetek on 07/26/01 12:52 PM.


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Offlinezetek
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Posts: 210
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Innvertigo]
    #361360 - 07/26/01 11:56 AM (22 years, 11 months ago)

In reply to:

i don't look at people like you liberals do. Your classifications are proof that you have no idea what the hell you're talking about




What makes you think I'm a liberal? Aren't you classifying me?

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: zetek]
    #361424 - 07/26/01 02:06 PM (22 years, 11 months ago)

who said i called you a biggot?....maybe it was your conscience.....

****What makes you think I'm a liberal? Aren't you classifying me?****

nope....just your beliefs system...to bad

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Offlinemm.
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Registered: 06/15/99
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #361452 - 07/26/01 03:16 PM (22 years, 11 months ago)

Here in the UK most people consider extensive regualtion of the gun market to be a good thing. The personal ownership of handguns has now been banned, so only special police firearms units and vets are generally allowed to own guns. This is good, it works for this country where police do not routinely carry guns. Looking at the US though, it seems that gun ownership is so widespread that any further regulation wil be more likely to remove weapons from those seeking to defend themselves than from those possesing with intent to commit criminal acts.



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InvisiblePGF
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Registered: 07/20/00 Happy 24th Shroomiversary!
Posts: 8,642
Loc: Malaysia
Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Phluck]
    #361466 - 07/26/01 03:39 PM (22 years, 11 months ago)

Phluck, you were joking right?

Fucking Canadians, there's too much French blood in ya.

Who said guns are just for overthrowing the gubbmint?

No one. Guns are for self-defense, sport, hunting, and shooting road signs. These are all legitimate uses of a firearm. Criminalizing weapons does one thing, raises the crime rate. The fact that kids find guns and are hurt or worse is the fault of the parents only. It's really no different than a kid finding his parents drug stash and hurting or killing themselves. It's no different than a kid swallowing some red devil lye that his dad left in the middle of the floor unattended. Should drugs and red devil lye, electrical outlets, dogs that bite, all sharp pointy things and objects that toddlers may choke on be outlawed? No, of course not. Should a parent's negligent behavior be punished? Yes, and it is, often.

Should Canadians stay out of things that don't concern them? Absolutely. We don't care aboot your ice fishing, nasty beer, ugly women, or whale massacres and you should not be concerned with our right to bear arms.






jsuttherlandIII@dea.gov


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***The Real Shroomery nigger

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Offlinezetek
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Registered: 04/28/01
Posts: 210
Loc: United States
Last seen: 22 years, 2 months
Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: mm.]
    #361469 - 07/26/01 03:43 PM (22 years, 11 months ago)

Gun regulations in the US are not aimed at removing weapons from those seeking to defend themselves, nor is that their effect. Regulations are aimed at keeping people that for one reason or another should not have guns, from getting them. And despite what some will say, those laws do work. People that interpret the 2nd amendment as being absolute view those laws as interfering with their right "to bear arms," eg. they should not have to wait before they purchase a gun or should not be limited in the number of guns they purchase. None of the rights guaranteed by our U.S. Constitution are absolute, because there will alway be situations where they conflict. Even though I am guaranteed Freedom of Speech, I cannot yell "Fire" in a crowded movie theater because other people have the right not to be injured in the mayhem that would result from me doing that. It is the same with guns. (I think this has largely been covered in the WOD thread.)

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: zetek]
    #361860 - 07/27/01 06:06 AM (22 years, 11 months ago)

****None of the rights guaranteed by our U.S. Constitution are absolute,*****

Well the truth comes shining through. The rights were intended on being absolute. unfortunatly the namby pamby spineless liberals consider the constitution as a liquid document and you're no different. So can we assume that YOUR freedom of speech should be adjusted to fit a particular instance?

****I cannot yell "Fire" in a crowded movie theater because other people have the right not to be injured in the mayhem that would result from me doing that****

So can we assume that YOUR freedom of speech should be adjusted to fit a particular instance?..ie: demonstrations...can you say GENOA. The intention of the constitution was to grant rights as long as they don't conflict with others..hence yelling fire in a theatre can kill peopl through a stampede.....

****I think this has largely been covered in the WOD thread****

i'm not involved with that discussion so i can careless

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: mm.]
    #361871 - 07/27/01 06:47 AM (22 years, 11 months ago)

MM, a citizen of the U.K. has mentioned that in his homeland guns have been confiscated from law abiding citizens. Now what are the effects of these kinds of policies? When legal firearms are removed from the ownership of ordinary people crime increases.

Newcastle, in the north of England is now the most dangerous city in the industrialized world. Britians home office, more of less equivelant to our Justice Department reports that "incidence of violence against the person" which includes aggravated assult, rape, and murder, are the highest in Newcastle with a rate of 236.5 per 1,000 residents.
Home burglaries and auto thefts occur 50 percent more frequently in Britain than in the U.S. Even worse is there is 75 percent more rapes in Britain than in the U.S., even though Britain has only about 25 percent of our population.

It is no coincidence that the lowest rate of home burglaries in the world is in Switzerland. In Switzerland every male of draft age is required by law to keep an 'assult rifle' and nearly all of the population own guns. They also have a national holiday to celibrate good marksmanship.

If guns are taken away crime increases. Empower citizens with concealed carry permits and more gun ownership and crime decreases. What part of this do people not understand?


Edited by Rail_Gun on 07/27/01 07:49 AM.



--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #361916 - 07/27/01 09:05 AM (22 years, 11 months ago)

well said...i couldn't agree more....but you have to remember that gun control freaks don't want to defend them selves. They want the Goverment "daddy" to protect them

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Innvertigo]
    #361923 - 07/27/01 09:30 AM (22 years, 11 months ago)

In reply to:

They want the Goverment "daddy" to protect them




Yeah, that is their mentaity. Even though there have been multiple Supreme Court court rulings which agree that it is not the responsibility of police to protect civilians, or even their responsibility to respond to emergency calls.

I'm a big boy, I can take care of myself.



--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

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Offlinezetek
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Last seen: 22 years, 2 months
Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Innvertigo]
    #364356 - 07/31/01 08:27 PM (22 years, 11 months ago)

"The rights were intended on being absolute."

"The intention of the constitution was to grant rights as long as they don't conflict with others..."

So which is it?

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: zetek]
    #364591 - 08/01/01 06:03 AM (22 years, 11 months ago)

****So which is it?****

HUH?

Rights can be absolute at the same time not conflicting with other's rights written in the constitution. Can you give me an example of a right that conflicts others rights granted by the constitution?

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Offlinezetek
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Innvertigo]
    #364648 - 08/01/01 09:20 AM (22 years, 11 months ago)

The following is copied and pasted. I think maybe we're defining "absolute" slightly differently?

In reply to:

The First Amendment guarantees freedom of speech. The U.S. Supreme Court, however, has ruled that this right is not absolute. For example, in 1969 in Watts v. United States, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld a federal law banning threats against the president. But the court stressed that a statute such as this one, which makes criminal a form of pure speech, must be interpreted with the commands of the First Amendment clearly in mind. What is a threat must be distinguished from what is constitutionally protected speech. The court ruled that only a true threat could be outlawed. In Watts, a Vietnam protester had been arrested during an anti-draft rally for stating "If they ever make me carry a rifle the first man I want to get in my sights is L.B.J. [President Lyndon Baines Johnson]." The court ruled that this was not a true threat but political hyperbole. The court declared that the First Amendment protects debate on public issues that is uninhibited, robust, and wide-open, and that it may well include vehement, caustic, and sometimes unpleasantly sharp attacks . . . .






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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: zetek]
    #364671 - 08/01/01 10:10 AM (22 years, 11 months ago)

****I think maybe we're defining "absolute" slightly differently? ****

I think you're correct. I guess what i was saying is rights are absolute within the realm of not violating other's rights...but in the example you provide i believe you are correct.

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Offlinezetek
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: Innvertigo]
    #365059 - 08/01/01 09:20 PM (22 years, 11 months ago)

Cool, glad we agree on something ;-)... I'm done with this thread; see ya' in others I'm sure...

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The U.N. gun confiscation agenda [Re: zetek]
    #365362 - 08/02/01 06:06 AM (22 years, 11 months ago)

see you later...and i'm sure there will be more debates..... :)

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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