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Onlinedeff
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the problem of 'ideal'
    #3576485 - 01/03/05 09:49 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

hello there children, I would like to read to you a story of a rather funny system in which organisms synchronized their realities to their external perspective of others, who in turn were the same, culminating in a sort of twisted and plastic artificial lifestyle that millions feel obliged to comply to, yet so few actually contribute to.

And so, the story starts a loooong time ago. Very long time ago. And yet, in the grand scheme, it was just a ripple ago in this cosmos, when our elders-of-the-past, our distant mothers and fathers, developed the use of communication bwteen seperate organisms which today has been down played beyond first-glance recognition. And I don't just mean verbal language, or written word, or painting of one's gentials to shock others, but rather communication as a whole, as a sort of penetrating entity through the veil that seperates distinct experiences of Selfs, as a way to slowly unite the human neurons to form a connected tissue of awareness. But enough with the fancy talk...

And so, humans developed the ability to share, or atleast overlap partially, their realities through communication. Body language, facial expressions (look for it on purpose and you will be amazed), primitive sounds, then language, written symbols, words, ect. What has been the effect of this? Well for one, your mind is currently undergoing a thoughtform that it would not have had I had not posted this, as a form of communication itself from me to you :smile:. More seriously though, communication has caused humans to ASSIMILATE, and not so much literally (maybe at first) as more SUGGESTIVELY, as to not appear as the ugly duck or the sore thumb. We want ACCEPTANCE, and so we OBSERVE others interactions, DEVELOP a similar system of logic/language very early in life, ADOPT a behavior that is similar but different enough from our own observation of our ingrained "culture", and then SUFFER alone - as we give in to PLASTIC communication techniques of our "times".

The amount we synchronize ourselves to one another is waaay more than what most may consider at first thought. Even the thought of this itself is ordered into the perception that has been conditioned and adopted from others around you, using the internal language you adopted from others' external language, even using the 'linear model of thought' our culture ingrains incessently in us.

And it goes way beyond this. Clothing, attitude, make-up, gender stereotypes (men = strong, women = pretty :wink:) ect ect ect ect ect....

Everything of your experience is molded from others, in essence, even your physical construct of a body was molded from the conjoining of the sperm and egg way-back-when :smile:.

AND YET THERE IS A "PROBLEM"  :shocked:

We want to fit in, so we portray an attitude similar to others.

By doing this, we "fit in", while also promoting this flase "status quo".

And then, people outside of this status quo are consensually deemed insane, delusional, crazy ect. while we each fear the label landing on ourself.

A perfect example is in emotion. Looking at people in "public", one notices they (as in like 99%) are either smiling or seem content. Great :smile:. Now, John here is smiling in public, like everyone else, yet alone he is depressed and suicidal and feels ALONE because "everyone else seems to be happy but me".

John promotes this same sense of 'normality' in trying to act normal himself, which may in part land Jane in a similar situation. ECT ECT...

And so, we are at a point in humanity where pieces are coming quicker than we can assemble them all, and yet, we are afraid of the larger image as everyone else seems attached to a smaller image.

CHANGE is what I'm getting at here. IT IS ABOUT TIME WE CHANGE HUMANITY AND IT'S IDEALS FOR THE BETTER, TO A MORE OPEN AND CONNECTED FRAMEWORK OF HUMANS, WHO NOT ONLY ACCEPT REALITY OVER FALSE DRAMA AND MALICIOUS GAMES OF CONTROL, BUT SEE THE SAME LIGHT IN OTHERS AS THEY DO IN THEMSELVES.

WE MUST BE OPEN WITH WHAT IS REAL TO US, TO OTHERS.

CHANGE CANNOT HAPPEN OTHERWISE.

DO NOT BE AFRAID TO DISCUSS ISSUES DISCUSSED HERE, OUTSIDE OF HERE.

SPREAD THE INQUIRY, SPREAD THE WONDER, THE LEARNING, THE MARVEL!

SPREAD TRUTH OVER CONFORMATION :cool:

(sorry)


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: the problem of 'ideal' [Re: deff]
    #3576576 - 01/03/05 10:14 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

enough with the fancy talk...


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: the problem of 'ideal' [Re: deff]
    #3576603 - 01/03/05 10:23 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Looking at people in "public", one notices they (as in like 99%) are either smiling or seem content.

Hahahaha WHAT? Have you ever been in a public place before?

Don't worry. You're just going through a phase. Once you're out, your angst will fade and you'll put your focus on some other issue.


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Onlinedeff
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Re: the problem of 'ideal' [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3576621 - 01/03/05 10:29 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Atleast here, a lot of people appear to wear plastic static smiles everywhere they go.

THen to talk to them, the quiver starts, before they unfold to you their true state of unhappiness.

I'm not saying this is everyone, and it certaintly isn't the result of angst or anything :laugh:. But there are a lot of people I know who seek conformity and acceptance above individual expression.

This post though wasn't supposed to focus on that (it was a quick example), but rather on how we must bring forth global change through our outward actions, rather than assume that everyone fits the roles they pretend to play :smile:

Maybe I'm wrong. It's always a possibility. This was just an encouragement for others as well as myself (as I have been hiding aspects and interests of myself that were not deemed 'normal') to open up and spread this wisdom and worldview we expand on here in S&P.

Seriously though, I know many people to be so much different at their core than the false presence their ego secures :smile:

and again... (sorry) :smile:


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OfflineFrog
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Re: the problem of 'ideal' [Re: deff]
    #3576636 - 01/03/05 10:34 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

deff said:
AND YET THERE IS A "PROBLEM"  :shocked:

We want to fit in, so we portray an attitude similar to others.

By doing this, we "fit in", while also promoting this flase "status quo".

And then, people outside of this status quo are consensually deemed insane, delusional, crazy ect. while we each fear the label landing on ourself.

A perfect example is in emotion. Looking at people in "public", one notices they (as in like 99%) are either smiling or seem content. Great :smile:. Now, John here is smiling in public, like everyone else, yet alone he is depressed and suicidal and feels ALONE because "everyone else seems to be happy but me".





I thought this was an excellent post, deff.  Not only did it read well, but you made an excellent point.

I have an anecdote.  :grin:

Now, I know that my anecdote isn't on the extreme scale of that which you are postulating, however it's humorous.

I was in court one morning before the meanest judge that I have ever had the privilege to appear before.  He was snarling.  It didn't help matters that the opposing counsel was an asshole (of course I WASN'T/AREN'T an asshole :grin: ) and so we were bickering to the judge about each other on top of it.

So, on this particular morning, before this particular Texas-style snarly judge, us attorneys are standing there bickering and cutting the judge off (big no-no, I guess :grin: ) and just really acting like children, and finally the judge cut off our tantrums.

First, he snarled at the other attorney and told him off, and while I was in shock at how the judge talked to that attorney, the judge switched to me and asked me a question that I could not immediately answer, due to my state of shock.  He then made a cutting remark designed to render me totally speechless and told me to "get a grip, I'll get back to you", and then went back to snarling at the other attorney. 

Thank God he went back to the other attorney because it gave me time to buy composure.  However, what I was really trying NOT to do was cry.  :shocked:  Yes, me, an asshole in court, acting like a girl and about to cry in front of God, countrymen, and a whole fucking court room full of people. 

Now, deff, according to your (sweet) ramble, I should have been able to sniff and be a human being and even let the judge hand me a hanky, but NO!  In this world, I  have to be like all the other bad asses in court and suck up my tears (and my snot) and answer the judge in intelligible syllables when he came back to extract my answer to his question. 

The other attorney appeared to be composed (as I'm sure I appeared to him), but maybe inside, he was aching for his blanky and ohsobadly wanted to stick his favorite thumb in his mouth?  If he had done so, would he have been straightjacketed at the scene of his crime?


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Onlinedeff
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Re: the problem of 'ideal' [Re: Frog]
    #3576671 - 01/03/05 10:41 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Great, and relevent, analogy :cool:

See, in an ideal situation (ironic choice of words considering the title), you along with the other attourney should have felt the openness to portray your true sense of Being, without feeling the obligation of being "professional" or like a "normal" lawyer. But you're right, in 'today's society', people feel they cannot succeed without giving in to the pressure of conforming. However, I would wage (since swami's gone :wink:) that a much larger fraction of individuals who seem to uphold an 'ideal', are actually personally against it and are doing so for the sole reason of 'being how they should'.

I think humanity is at a point where we can drop this pointless games though and just CONNECT.

HUMAN-TO-HUMAN. Not father-to-son, boss-to-employee, judge-to-attorney, but as equals expressing their TRUE intents :smile:

but, I guess I am a dreamer sometimes...


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: the problem of 'ideal' [Re: deff]
    #3576674 - 01/03/05 10:41 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

This post though wasn't supposed to focus on that (it was a quick example), but rather on how we must bring forth global change through our outward actions, rather than assume that everyone fits the roles they pretend to play

Ok, I found your post was a littly rambly and it left me a littly confused. So what you're saying then is that.. everybody's got some kind of facade, or maybe you'd say a "mask" on. Ok, I've read adbusters as well.. And, you say by acting "real" an individual could inspire others to do the same and the horde of Guess Jeans corpses will rise up and change the world? Is this closer to what you're saying?


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Onlinedeff
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Re: the problem of 'ideal' [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3576694 - 01/03/05 10:44 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Exactly, only much shorter and more sustinct :laugh:

But, it's not a matter of thinking about it, intellectually, and saying "yes that would be great, but..."

It's about action.

Being the change you want to see kind of stuff :smile:

And I mean this seriously, not just as a consideration :smile:


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: the problem of 'ideal' [Re: deff]
    #3576810 - 01/03/05 11:05 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Ok, let's get more specific, as in you. What are your specific steps you have taken or are gonna take or whatever. And what exactly is it you want to change?


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Onlinedeff
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Re: the problem of 'ideal' [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3576983 - 01/03/05 11:44 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Ok :smile:

So far, not a whole lot. I mean, I've introduced a lot of people close to me to spirituality, deep thought, psychedellics, and that whole deal. Not a whole lot at all though, which is why I have now set course for change, so to speak :smile:

But now for what I plan :smile:. The role of a Boddhavista is one that has been 'calling' out for me to seek as of recently. I am not specifically Buddhist, but I have found an end to all of my own suffering and feel compassion towards others. However, until now, I have kept the majority of my spiritual practices, beliefs, meditations, ect out of my normal encounters with others. Basically, I've been spiritual in secret, but now I want to open up and spread the richness it can reward to others :smile: (warning: may sound corny)

So what do I plan on doing? Changing my own interactions with everyone, so as to bring forth discussion of these very important issues. It doesn't sound like a lot I know, but it is amazing the effect of shared truths. I know a lot of people, many of whom would seem to be able to benefit greatly from spirituality.

I don't want to become a walking prophet or anything like that, it sounds a little egotistical, but basically I want to be REAL with EVERYONE, which is surprisingly and sadly a hefty task.

I will raise spiritual awareness in others I know first, and then take it from there. Ideally, I would like to eventually seek out public places in which to evoke the same change in others, only much more people at a time.

It probably sounds like the same thing everyone says, probably a little trivial to some, but I will do it with all of my love for humanity :smile:  :heart:


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: the problem of 'ideal' [Re: deff]
    #3577327 - 01/04/05 12:53 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

"in an ideal situation...you along with the other attorney should have felt the openness to portray your true sense of being without the obligation of being "professional".

Kind of like the movie Liar Liar? That movie had a happy Hollywood ending, but a lawyer who is open and honest and portraying their true sense of Being in the courtroom? I think you could scratch the "professional" label as they would be fired by their clients for being "too open and honest".

"but, i guess i am a dreamer sometimes"

I think so. Father-to-son, boss-to-employee, and judge-to-attorney are not representative of "equals". One holds command over the other. Honor thy father, show up to work on time, and yes, your honor.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Re: the problem of 'ideal' [Re: deff]
    #3579041 - 01/04/05 12:58 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Yeeeaah deff, you are right on. Everything you said is good but I really feel the need to make a point about this:

HUMAN-TO-HUMAN. Not father-to-son, boss-to-employee, judge-to-attorney, but as equals expressing their TRUE intents

When you no longer allow the illusion of authority to hold power over you, you're free of its influence. Every person who you interact with, think of them ONLY as another human being and not as your "parent", the "police," your "boss," or whatever. The only authority these titles hold over you are the ones YOU GIVE THEM. Power is GIVEN to them, not TAKEN by them. Often we feel that we're "controlled" by people in positions of authority. This is a limiting belief and one that will hold you back for as long as you have it. And conversely, woe to those who claim to hold authority over others. This is simply not the case. Authority is an illusion.

Authority that others have over you lasts only as long as you agree to give them that authority. People must begin to realize this. People have to learn to be self-sovereign and see others simply as other human beings with their own self-sovereignty. Some people just don't know how to be self-sovereign, so in their fears they give authority to certain people. "Wow I can do anything I want... but I don't know what to do, so I'll let you tell me what to do and what not to do."

YOU CAN DO ANYTHING YOU WANT TO, ANYTIME, ANYWHERE. Read that last sentence as many times as you have to until you absolutely, truely believe it...

Then something amazing will happen. :laugh:


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: the problem of 'ideal' [Re: ]
    #3579508 - 01/04/05 03:01 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

"YOU CAN DO ANYTHING YOU WANT TO, ANYTIME, ANYWHERE."
Read that last sentence as many times as you have to, until you absolutely, truely believe it...
Then something amazing will happen.

OK, the next time you pull up alongside of a cop at a stop light, flip them off and then peel off.  Hey, you are just doing something you may have always wanted to do, and the time is now.  And, something amazing will happen, that one cop will become four, you will be tracked down, pulled over or spun out by the cop car, dragged out of your car, pepper sprayed if need be or even tased, and taken downtown.  Then, just because you feel like it, when facing the judge in a few days, pull out your pecker and shout "Suck on THIS, Judge"!  Something amazing is guaranteed to happen.  :crazy:

Authority is sometimes NOT an illusion.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Re: the problem of 'ideal' [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #3579656 - 01/04/05 03:40 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

You can do anything you want, but there are consequences for your actions. Of course, malevolence begets malevolence. Responsibility goes hand in hand with free will.

And authority is always an illusion. What authority do cops and judges have over your life if you don't give any to them?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: the problem of 'ideal' [Re: ]
    #3579669 - 01/04/05 03:47 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

cops and judges can be plenty expensive


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: the problem of 'ideal' [Re: ]
    #3579912 - 01/04/05 04:55 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

"And authority is always an illusion. What authority do cops and judges have over your life if you don't give any to them?"

If the cops/judges think you have broken the law, and they arrest you and lock you up, you will find out what authority they have over your body at least. They may TAKE regardless of you being unwilling to GIVE. That's how the system works, even for people wrongfully accused.

To ignore that reality seems foolish at best.

However, I agree with you that people CAN keep their spirit intact and maintain dignity even in dire circumstances brought about by total abuse of authority. Look at concentration camp survivors. Look at people in POW situations. The human spirit can NOT be taken away by even the most oppressive authoritarian regime, unless the person persecuted gives that away.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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