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OfflineFrappy
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Psilocybin, Psilocin, and Beocystin relationship
    #3560338 - 12/30/04 05:34 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Has anyone found a relationship between the different types of trips caused by different levels of Psilocybin, Psilocin, and Beocystin? For example, perhaps one of them produces stronger visuals, while high levels of another produces a body high, and another gives that strong mental trip? Has anyone made a connection yet, I know there are many other factors that can influence a trip, but it would still be interesting to hear what people have to say.

This link shows the varying levels of active chemicals for each species of mushrooms: http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_info4.shtml


P. BOHEMICA would be a great species to test to get a gague of what a higher ratio of Psilocybin to Psilocin & Baeocystin.

P. SEMILANCEATA would be a great species to test how the addition of Baeocystin compares to P. BOHEMICA.. although it has less Psilocybin.

P. CUBENESIS would be a good way to gague moderate levels of Psilocybin and Psilocin against nominal levels of Baeocystin.


You get the idea. Any thoughts, ideas, guinnea pigs, scientific info to back anything up?


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InvisiblesuiM
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Re: Psilocybin, Psilocin, and Beocystin relationship [Re: Frappy]
    #3560380 - 12/30/04 05:57 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I have been toying with this idea since i started researching mushrooms. Forgive me if im wrong but my post from earlier is what gave you the idea huh?

Since i started hunting mushrooms ive been wondering what makes different aspects of a trip more prevelent. Ive sampled P Cubensis and P Cyanofibrillosa and am searching for a patch of P Cyanescens. I havent sampled more than a gram of the P Cyanofibs and iv take a half eighth(ive taken a Quarter before but dont count it cause im not sure what species I ingested so this dose is not applicabe for this disscussion) of cubensis. The cubensis trip was more of a confused mind fuck, while the Cyanofibs were more of a clear philosophical trip. The cyanofib species is known to be notoriously high in Psilocin but i dont know how different the trip would be with high psilocin content because of the fact that Psilocybin get transfered into Psilocin in you liver. So i would assume the major differences in the trips from different species would be from shrooms that are high in Psilocybin/Psilocin and low Beocystin and a shroom that is high in Beocystin and lower in Psilocybin/Psilocin.

From the erowid comparission list it shows there is no known species that have higher beocystin ratios than the other two chemicals so the test might have to be carried out with pure samples of the three chemicals done in a controled enviroment on the same subject spaced out over 3 weeks- 3 months with the same weighted dose on each test.

This hypothisis is also based on the fact that Beocystin ISNT turned into psilocin once ingested.


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InvisiblesuiM
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Re: Psilocybin, Psilocin, and Beocystin relationship [Re: Frappy]
    #3560407 - 12/30/04 06:20 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I did a little more research and found out that Baeocystin and Norbaeocystin(i didnt even know there was this one) are Psilocybin and Psilocin analougs. So i assume that they just work in the same manner. Anyone else have anything to add?


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OfflineFrappy
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Re: Psilocybin, Psilocin, and Beocystin relationship [Re: sui]
    #3560412 - 12/30/04 06:24 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Yes your post from earlier did give me the idea to post. I've been thinking about it for a years, but never posted. I in no way intended to steal your thunder or take credit for your idea. I was just feeling up to the task of collaborating the post so that there's a possibility we could get this question answered for us.

You bring up some interesting points tho. I've never heard of a way to extract Psilocin or Beocystin, which is why I proposed my idea of comparing it to mushrooms containing varying quantities of each chemical. Perhaps there is a way, but would most likely be very expensive and require a lab.

So far your reports confirm that:
P. Cubensis = Mind Fuck
P. Cyanofibrillosa = clear and philosophical

If Psilocybin converts into Psilocin in your liver, hypothetically they would give the same or very similar effects, but according to your experience, the two were very different types trips. Its possible that set, setting, and mood played a role, but I don't know how you were affected by these variables. Did you notice one was any more visual than another?


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InvisiblesuiM
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Re: Psilocybin, Psilocin, and Beocystin relationship [Re: Frappy]
    #3560419 - 12/30/04 06:28 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Man i wasnt sayin you were tryin to steal my thunder. You posted it, its a good question i didnt mean to make you think i was mad or somethin cause you got the idea from one of my posts, if i did im sorry, iwas just curious as to if it was a coincidence or if my post spured a good idea in someone which is what i post for anyway.

EDIT: also this isnt even MY idea. Iv been toying with it for a while and im sure ALOT of people have to just like you said that you had. I didnt mean to make you think that it was solely MY idea. :thumbup: :thumbup: :grin: :mushroom2:


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Edited by sui (12/30/04 06:38 AM)


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InvisiblesuiM
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Re: Psilocybin, Psilocin, and Beocystin relationship [Re: sui]
    #3560422 - 12/30/04 06:33 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

well the dosages on the two trips were not the same so i assume that had a big factor in it, also set, and setting were different. Thanx for bringin this back to my attention, ill try to cop some cubes soon to do a more controlled study of the effects.


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OfflineFrappy
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Re: Psilocybin, Psilocin, and Beocystin relationship [Re: sui]
    #3560435 - 12/30/04 06:43 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

suimush said:
Man i wasnt sayin you were tryin to steal my thunder. You posted it, its a good question i didnt mean to make you think i was mad or somethin cause you got the idea from one of my posts, if i did im sorry, iwas just curious as to if it was a coincidence or if my post spured a good idea in someone which is what i post for anyway.




Naw, its cool. Thanks for reminding me about the subject. I'd love to hear more. Post back about your experiments and let us know how it goes. Some things to keep in mind, to compare the two trips..

1. You may want to use erowid's guide as a reference of how much of each to eat so you have similar ratios % per gram of each particular chemical you are ingesting so it can be easily compared with the other chemicals.

2. Conduct the experiment in the same place(s).

3. Same diet, sleep habits, time of day.

4. Clear concience and clear mind each time.

5. Plenty of recovery time to avoid tolerance issues, etc...

Perhaps those of you in Amsterdam who have access to a wider variety of mushrooms could help out too.


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InvisiblesuiM
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Re: Psilocybin, Psilocin, and Beocystin relationship [Re: sui]
    #3560440 - 12/30/04 06:48 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Also after reading some more research i found that baeocystin when dephosphorylated tey turn into 4-hydroxy-N-methyltryptamine and 4-hydroxytryptamine. These compounds are presumed LESS hallucinagenic than Psilocin or Psilocybin. So i wonder if that would mean that they are less visual? If soo then it would seem to me that the differences in visuals and halucinations might be based on the personal body chemistry on the individual dosing.


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InvisiblesuiM
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Re: Psilocybin, Psilocin, and Beocystin relationship [Re: sui]
    #3560454 - 12/30/04 07:03 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Good tips for making the study more controlled ill use em.

I was reading www.magic-mushrooms.info/chemistry.htm


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"There is never a wrong note, bend it."
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Invisibleuriahchase
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Re: Psilocybin, Psilocin, and Beocystin relationship *DELETED* [Re: sui]
    #3560606 - 12/30/04 09:23 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Post deleted by uriahchase

Reason for deletion: it was ignorance at it's best.



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Re: Psilocybin, Psilocin, and Beocystin relationship [Re: uriahchase]
    #3560635 - 12/30/04 09:40 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

uriahchase said:
suimush...youll never find a patch of cyans where you live sorry. but up here in Seattle...that's different. just wanted to let you know it's a waste of your time. ----sorry i have nothing to add to the post besides that.:jesus:




I know for a fact of patches 15 minutes from my house, ive already found cyanofibs this season, the cyans are out there. I would have picked some already but i cant get to golden gate park. Theres pics from my area of cyans that were picked earlier this year in the hunting forum. It not NEARLY on the scale of you folks up in the PNW though. :mad2: :grin: :mushroom2:


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Psilocybin, Psilocin, and Beocystin relationship [Re: sui]
    #3560637 - 12/30/04 09:42 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Jeremy Bigwood did baeocystine in the late 1970s and reported it was no different in effect than psilocine/psilocybine.

Several analogues were used in controlled studies back then and the results were the same. (Leung, Smith, A. H. and Paul.------, ------ and ------. 1967. Baeocystin, a monomethyl analog of psilocybin in Psilocybe baeocystis. Journal of Pharmaceutical Science vol. 56(1):146.)

\
First, every individual mushroom in a given species can have one or four or more tryptamine analogues in a single shroom and be completely different in a second shroom within the same genera.

A single shroom can have baeocystine, norbaeocyustine, psilocine and psilocybine in it when you eat it. or it can have just psilocine and or psilocybine. with no baeocystine or norbaeocystine.

Those are just two tryptamines in the lifecycle of the shroom which eventually become psilocine and then psilocybine through amination after the shrooms are consumed. It is a pathway for the production and biosynthesis of psilocine to psilocybine.

Studies by Stijve On Hawaiian Copelandia cyanescens with Thai specimens and specimens fom Australia showed that Australian shrooms were high in psilocybine and low in psilocine while Hawaiian Copes were higher in psilocine content while low in psilocine.

mj

They bring about the same effects.

One n more interesting note. I had the pleasure int he late 1970s of trying DET (Diethyltryptamine) IT was exactly like shrooms, lasted two hours with no visuals.

Even when I do DMT, I can feel the shroom side of the trytamines int he DMT, although it is not psilocine/psilocybine, part of the feelin g is still there.

even 5HO-DIPT is similar.


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Invisibleuriahchase
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Re: Psilocybin, Psilocin, and Beocystin relationship [Re: mjshroomer]
    #3560657 - 12/30/04 09:50 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

shit, sorry dude i fell like an idiot! i saw ur loc. and thought it said NorCarolina...oops... yup. n.cali you can find 'em there! good luck!


--------------------
Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are -Kurt Cobain
       



     
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InvisiblesuiM
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Re: Psilocybin, Psilocin, and Beocystin relationship [Re: mjshroomer]
    #3560659 - 12/30/04 09:52 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

cool mj thanx. your posts are allways so informative :smile: So i guess that would mean that the lack or prevelance of visuals is based on individual body chemistry.


--------------------


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"There is never a wrong note, bend it."
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InvisiblesuiM
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Re: Psilocybin, Psilocin, and Beocystin relationship [Re: uriahchase]
    #3560663 - 12/30/04 09:54 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

uriahchase said:
shit, sorry dude i fell like an idiot! i saw ur loc. and thought it said NorCarolina...oops... yup. n.cali you can find 'em there! good luck!




it alright man :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :mushroom2:


--------------------


$30, help me out and buy one!
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"There is never a wrong note, bend it."
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Re: Psilocybin, Psilocin, and Beocystin relationship [Re: sui]
    #3563240 - 12/31/04 12:00 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

i just wanted to say that this thread is great. The ideas expressed here are very interesting. Cant wait until said Expirement is preformed...


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OfflineFrappy
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Re: Psilocybin, Psilocin, and Beocystin relationship [Re: mjshroomer]
    #3565569 - 12/31/04 03:33 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

So, according to mjshroomer's info, basically there is no difference in the type of trip you take on any of the Psilocybe species of mushrooms except for potency? Hmmmm. Interesting. On the other hand, different strains of weed have very different effects than other strains, but maybe I'm just comparing apples to shovels.


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