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Offlinedeviation13
old hand
Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 927
Last seen: 8 months, 9 days
been a while
    #355504 - 07/16/01 01:29 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

i have not posted in a while... i forget how much i posted here... anywho... i am lost in some tryptamine and i thought this up... Do you know what it is like to destroy ego? what it is that you call yourself?. That you hold everything to be known about you? let it all go free into space like the energy that it is? then to take energy and fill this shell back up, reenergize, restored? new focus new direction. Still in the bounds of the filters of our mind, but a new understanding is developled on how these filters work and why they are there? so now you are better equipped to go out into the world? blah blah blah... this is when i curl back up into a convulsing ball on the flor



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too busy with living to live
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OfflineYoschie99
nomad
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/25/99
Posts: 3,143
Loc: center of earth
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Re: been a while [Re: deviation13]
    #355513 - 07/16/01 01:45 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I'm going to move this to S&P...


yos



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Invisibleshroom-girlie
addict
Registered: 01/07/01
Posts: 215
Loc: California
Re: been a while [Re: deviation13]
    #355557 - 07/16/01 03:06 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

YUP!

Most of the activities described above are dangerous and/or illegal and none are recommended.


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"Express yourself completely then become quiet."


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InvisibleKid
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 2,365
Re: been a while [Re: deviation13]
    #355658 - 07/16/01 08:38 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Without Ego ("I", sense of self) you have no reference point, and therefor no experience. You can destroy it so that it looses coherence; looses a stable pictue; kaleidescopes; but once you loose it entirely you loose experience.

You cannot be a bundle of sensory perceptions. Experiences don't float around wating to be had. That's absurd. That's like saying dents are waiting for cars to accumulate them. Dents are nouns derived from adjectives. An experience is derived from an adjective of the human mind, and in the same way as dents are to cars, experiences are not things (signified by nouns) for minds to possess.

The car is dented (adjective).
I experienced pain(adj.)

The car has a dent (noun).
I have a pain (noun) in my foot .

Though intuitively the last two sentences convey meaning, they don't make logical sense. You cannot have an adjective. You cannot possess the colour red; it is a property. An experience is a property of consciousness.

This idea is the same that is the joke behind the Chesire Cat: it leaves it's grin behind. A grin is the same type of thing: it's a noun derived from an adjective.

Edited by Kid on 07/16/01 07:44 AM.



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OfflinePhyl
old hand
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 597
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: been a while [Re: Kid]
    #355682 - 07/16/01 09:31 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Without Ego ("I", sense of self) you have no reference point, and therefor no experience. You can destroy it so that it looses coherence; looses a stable pictue; kaleidescopes; but once you loose it entirely you loose experience.
I don't believe that is true. I have lost all reference points many times on saliva. When you become infinite (For lack of a better word) you are everything, and there is nothing that's external that can be used for reference (Including time and space). These experiences can only truely be appreciated on return to baseline, as only then can you appreciate the magnitude of the experience.

You cannot be a bundle of sensory perceptions
Why not? I have experienced existing as nothing but an emotion. Surly that must be a step even further than existing as sensory perceptions.

Experiences don't float around wating to be had. That's absurd. That's like saying dents are waiting for cars to accumulate them. Dents are nouns derived from adjectives. An experience is derived from an adjective of the human mind, and in the same way as dents are to cars, experiences are not things (signified by nouns) for minds to possess.
Just because something defies definition in our languge, does not mean it cannot be. Ego loss experiences transcend language. If you have experienced ego death, you simply cannot explain the depth of the experience to someone who hasn't, no matter how linguistically skilled you are.

You cannot possess the colour red
If you were wearing red trousers, could you taste the colour through your legs? I have done exactly this with purple trousers. Purple tastes pretty good...

An experience is a property of consciousness.
Everything you think of as real is a property of consciousness. Outside of consciousness, all that exists is energy. Just because something is created in our consciousness, does that make is any less real? (But that's a whole new thred...)



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InvisibleKid
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 2,365
Re: been a while [Re: Phyl]
    #355695 - 07/16/01 10:04 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

> I have lost all reference points many times on saliva.

If you can't refer to yourself, then who's experiencing the experience?

> When you become infinite (For lack of a better word) you are everything

I wouldn't object to the notion that there's a possibility that's opposite of the loose of experience where one experiences a mental white light.

> I have experienced existing as nothing but an emotion.

Fine, rephrase: You cannot be a bundle of experiences. An emotion is an experience.

> Ego loss experiences transcend language.

And experience itself transcends language, but the only reason we understand each other is because we have similar experiences. That's why it's easier to for people who've used LSD to understand others' LSD experiences. Sometimes though there are experiences which are so fundamentally different from normal concsiousness that the lexicon of a language is inadequate to describe it.

> If you have experienced ego death, you simply cannot explain the depth of the experience to someone who hasn't, no matter how linguistically skilled you are.

Without an "I" who is experiencing what?

> If you were wearing red trousers, could you taste the colour through your legs?

No, technically the colour red has no effect on taste receptors. Red is an electromagnetic wavelength; it stimulates receptors in the eye.

> I have done exactly this with purple trousers. Purple tastes pretty good...

I have flown in dreams. Flying is fun. In reality, I cannot fly. You experienced synathesia. Anyway, this still doesn't change the fact that you cannot possess a property of an object.

The ball is round. Can you go over and pick up roundness? Can you eat roundness? No.

> An experience is a property of consciousness.
Everything you think of as real is a property of consciousness. Outside of consciousness, all that exists is energy. Just because something is created in our consciousness, does that make is any less real? (But that's a whole new thred...)

Good point, and yeah we could discuss that for a long time and really not get anywhere, it still doesn't change the fact that experience functionally requires and experiencer. No matter how close you get to ego death you're still experiencing, once that ego is dead, you cannot experience.

Under the influence of hallucinogens you can loose your normal sense of identity; you can loose reference points for space and time; you can not know what you exist as; you can also be not aware that you exist, but nontheless the fact that you experience means that there is an Ego to be experiencing



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