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OfflineFrog
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Body Art and the Rise and Fall of Civilization
    #3554395 - 12/28/04 10:25 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Tatoos. Pierced noses, eye brows, lips, tongues, and belly buttons and .... well, you get it.

Has body art, jewelry as well as tattoos, brought civilization further to the brink of moral decay?

When did society start its moral decline? Did society even ever embark upon a moral decline? Were we just as bad in Jesus' day as we are now? Does the length of our skirts matter?

If there is a decline in the morals of society, what caused it? Was it caused by the approval of abortion? By the shortening of the skirt? By allowing jeans in colleges instead of formal attire? By allowing minors to address adults by their first names instead of their surnames?

And the final question for the big bucks of which I am not in possession to give away: Does body art or jewelry impinge on the morals of society? Are we going to hell?


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Body Art and the Rise and Fall of Civilization [Re: Frog]
    #3554405 - 12/28/04 10:27 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Definitely not. Body "modification" has probably been around as long as we've known how to do it. Lots of tribes still do full-body tattoos and such, and have been doing so for a LONG time.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Body Art and the Rise and Fall of Civilization [Re: trendal]
    #3554452 - 12/28/04 10:39 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Case closed.  Thank you, Trendal.  :grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Body Art and the Rise and Fall of Civilization [Re: Frog]
    #3554473 - 12/28/04 10:43 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Hehe, well don't take my word for it: I'm just a silly Canadian :grin:


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Body Art and the Rise and Fall of Civilization [Re: trendal]
    #3554515 - 12/28/04 10:56 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I was having an argument with my bf last night.  His 14-year old daughter was asking about tattoos.  He doesn't want her to get one.  So, he started giving her a lecture on how when we move the lines of society, we are left with a slowly eroding moral decay.

Um, I have a tattoo on my ass.  My 2nd oldest daughter has a tattoo on her back.  I guess we're morally decaying.  :grin:

Anyways, I didn't think of your response when I was arguing with him. 

Think about it:  Certain civilizations put stuff in their ears, noses, lips, etc.  This was done for religious and spiritual reasons. 

Well, I'm sure us western civilizations came along and said, "Look at those heathens and the shit that they're sticking in their bodies!  We're civilized!  We don't stick shit in our bodies!"

So, years went by and we didn't stick shit in or on our bodies.  The, there were sailors getting tattoos, but only when drunk!!  Women didn't do that shit.

But here we are 40 years later and EVERYONE is either getting a tattoo or sticking something in their extremities! 

I don't see anything wrong iwth it, personally.  By the time all a y'all's generation has grown to where I'm at, y'all will have tattoos, and no one will give a damn.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Body Art and the Rise and Fall of Civilization [Re: Frog]
    #3554532 - 12/28/04 11:00 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Tell your boyfriend that society, and the lines it resides in, changes ALL THE TIME. If society were ever to stop changing (evolving) you would have to consider it stagnant - and probably heading rapidly towards decay.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Body Art and the Rise and Fall of Civilization [Re: Frog]
    #3554661 - 12/28/04 11:26 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

"But here we are 40 years later and EVERYONE is either getting a tattoo or sticking something in their extremities."

Not me. I hate needles and pain.

Tongue piercing? You couldn't PAY me enough to have that done. Nipple? No freaking way.

My question is, WHY does "EVERYONE" as you say feel the need for self mutilation?


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Body Art and the Rise and Fall of Civilization [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #3554795 - 12/28/04 11:50 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Lunar, seriously, you know what?  When you go to a reputable tattoo store, they don't let you get drunk first.  :shake:  If you come in drunk, fuhget about it. 

In other words, you get to feel the pain WITH NO PAIN KILLERS OR ANYTHING (like alcohol) TO DEADEN THE PAIN!!! 

What about piercings?  Any pain there? 

(Since we're on this topic, and since I can derail my own thread if I want to, how much does it hurt to have a "private part" pierced?)

Back on topic:  I hate needles and pain, too.  But some day, I'm going to get another tattoo.  I just don't know of what, yet.  I love my bf, but fuck that shit.  :grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Body Art and the Rise and Fall of Civilization [Re: Frog]
    #3554826 - 12/28/04 11:55 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

It's much the same here. Legally they can't give you a tat or piercing if you are intoxicated. I had to sign a form saying I hadn't used drugs or alcohol in the past 24 hours before I got my eyebrow pierced.

In reality though, they WILL give you your piercing or tat if you're on drugs or booze, provided you aren't TOO visibly so.

You signed the form...so it's out of their hands, right?


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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OfflineMrBump
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Re: Body Art and the Rise and Fall of Civilization [Re: Frog]
    #3554865 - 12/29/04 12:03 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

ya know, i have no desire to ever get a tattoo or piercing or anything of taht nature.

its not even the needles and pain part, i think that (at least in the 20th century) these things were associated with rebeliousness and counter-culture, now theyre just cliches. and the people who get the tattoos get cliche tattoos (ex. Pamela anderson barbed wire)

i think its stupied and i know several preppy fucks who got a tat or a piercing and once they got that corp. drone job, zap....paying even moer to have the shit removed.

art is cool, women's figures are artisticly inspiring enough....why not jsut draw on yourself with a permenant marker or something?

/rant


--------------------
If it weren't for the bloody corpses, I wouldn't have any corpses at all.

There are two ways to get to the top of an oak tree: start climbing or sit on an acorn.

Are you a carrot, an egg, or a coffee bean?


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Body Art and the Rise and Fall of Civilization [Re: MrBump]
    #3554917 - 12/29/04 12:11 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I see your point, cornking. And let's don't make this about me, even though I mentioned that I wanted to get another tat. My mistake. Ignore that. I got my tat back in 1988, before tats became the "thing". I did it because I wanted to, not because it was what was cool.

Anyways, that being said, you made a good point about counter-culture and rebelliousness.

However, imo, and I could be wrong, enough people have gotten tattoos and body piercings that it can no longer be considered counter-culture or rebellious to have a tat or a piercing. THIS IS IMO.

Does anyone thing that because so many people have them that they can't any longer be considered counter-culture?


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Body Art and the Rise and Fall of Civilization [Re: Frog]
    #3554922 - 12/29/04 12:11 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

hrm.. tattoos and body piercing have been around since around 12,000 BC.. in many tribes it is considered a rite into adulthood.. in many cultures it signified your membership in a certain clan or society.. in borneo woman wore tattoos on their forearm with symbols indicating their skills.. the Ainu people of western Asia used tattooing to show social status.. the Ainu are noted for introducing tattoos to japan where it developed into a religious and ceremonial rite..there is evidence that the Mayan, Incas, and Aztecs used tattooing in the rituals..it goes on..and on..

modern tattoos in western culture do happen to focus more on flashy cartoony things, but to many, tattoos are much deeper and symbolic than just "body art".. they represent archetypes, ideas, beliefs, ideologies.. they are a symbolic way of marking the body to represent growth and remind you of where you have been. They mean different things to different people..


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OfflineMrBump
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Re: Body Art and the Rise and Fall of Civilization [Re: Frog]
    #3554941 - 12/29/04 12:15 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

nah, frog. i wasnt trying to rip on you or other people (i know not everyone who has a tat is some sort of tool)

i guess my opinion could be taken like that...sorry.

but, youre right, its no longer rebellious anymore. its mainstream IMO.

in fact, im rebelious and counterculture for NOT wanting any tats or piercings!

ok, thats a stretch right there.


--------------------
If it weren't for the bloody corpses, I wouldn't have any corpses at all.

There are two ways to get to the top of an oak tree: start climbing or sit on an acorn.

Are you a carrot, an egg, or a coffee bean?


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Body Art and the Rise and Fall of Civilization [Re: Shroomism]
    #3554950 - 12/29/04 12:18 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I once saw, on Discovery, a tribal man getting a full-body tattoo as part of an initiation right into Manhood. The whole deal took THREE DAYS, sun up to sun down. The tattoo is given by wiping ink on the skin and then using a hammer and pieces of wood with a bunch of small nails/pins in it. They would lay the pins on the skin and smack it with the hammer over and over really fast to drive the ink in.

By the third day he had a blood infection and was terribly ill...yet he bit his tongue and forced his way through it. You could tell he was obviously in pain.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Body Art and the Rise and Fall of Civilization [Re: Frog]
    #3554961 - 12/29/04 12:21 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

"If you come in drunk, fuhget about it."

That's a good thing, as tats are pretty permanent and being drunk may lead to some bad tat decisions. From what I have seen on TV, getting a tat removed is a multiple time painful laser procedure.

My question was, WHY do people get tattoos and piercings? Perhaps as I am older I do not have the same outlook on this. Is it to fit in? Express one's individuality? Be a rebel? Tongue piercing to enhance oral sex?


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Body Art and the Rise and Fall of Civilization [Re: trendal]
    #3554979 - 12/29/04 12:24 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

That's the real way to get a tattoo.. one day I may get one through that method.. the old school way.

LunarEclipse: People get tattoos for many reasons.. all the ones you listed and then some.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Body Art and the Rise and Fall of Civilization [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #3554984 - 12/29/04 12:25 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
"If you come in drunk, fuhget about it."

That's a good thing, as tats are pretty permanent and being drunk may lead to some bad tat decisions.  From what I have seen on TV, getting a tat removed is a multiple time painful laser procedure. 

My question was, WHY do people get tattoos and piercings?  Perhaps as I am older I do not have the same outlook on this.  Is it to fit in?  Express one's individuality?  Be a rebel?  Tongue piercing to enhance oral sex?




Some, to fit in, I guess.  Others, to express individuality.  I don't think any more that it's about being a rebel.  Too many people have tats to suggest that if you got a tat today, you would be considered a rebel.  These days, I think, if you got a tat, you would probably be considered mainstream.

Now in MY DAY, if you got a tat, you were a rebel.  :grin:  Especially if you were a girl.  And I remember when my bf (17 years ago) got a tat of the confederate flag on his shoulder, and then he joined the Marines.  Holy shit!  He took a lot of abuse in the corps.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Body Art and the Rise and Fall of Civilization [Re: Frog]
    #3555016 - 12/29/04 12:33 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Here's a scary thing though and probably not everyone knows this.

There have been documented cases of people getting Hepatitis C (no known cure and eventually fatal) from getting tattoos. This is true even though the tattoo artist changes the needles between customers tats as the virus gets into the ink and is passed on that way.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Body Art and the Rise and Fall of Civilization [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #3555028 - 12/29/04 12:37 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

ty, Lunar, and good point, before everyone runs out of the room and gets a tattoo. Actually, someone I knew got Hepatitis C in a similar fashion. I forgot about this. I had to go to the hospital with my kids to get the antedote (sp?) because we had been exposed.

Want to know the bummer about contracting Hep C? You really SHOULDN'T drink alcohol for the rest of your life. Can really seriously harm your liver.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Body Art and the Rise and Fall of Civilization [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #3555035 - 12/29/04 12:38 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

That's why you use go to a reliable tattoo artist who you know and trust.. who uses disposable needles and individual ink wells for each session.. any professional tattoo artist should practice completely sterile procedure.. what you are talking about is very bad practice and those tattoo artists are known as "scratchers".. basement tattoo artists.. very frowned upon to be so careless. People can get HIV that way man.. sharing needles or ink is just as bad as anything. Disposable needles and individual ink wells.


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