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InvisibleMagickow
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San Pedro-Tar base form *DELETED*
    #3544009 - 12/26/04 01:20 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by lordlotus

Reason for deletion: deleted picture



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InvisibleJohn
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Re: San Pedro-Tar base form [Re: Magickow]
    #3544054 - 12/26/04 01:40 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

no one can anwser this question without it being a wild guess. they would need to know the potency of the cactus you had and they vary a lot. besides you didn't give a final yield so as far as we know 60g could be all 5 pounds or one tenth of what you got from the 5lbs. the best thing to do imo is figure out how much it's concentrated (i.e. if final yield equals 100g then 20g equals one pound cactus) and dose in number of pounds you think is right.


--------------------
There's a thin line between sanity and insanity... and I just snorted it.


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OfflineLegoulash
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Re: San Pedro-Tar base form [Re: John]
    #3544277 - 12/26/04 03:36 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Yea judging by that pic, I sudjest plugging it :S..


But seriously, Johns right, It would be hard for anyone to help you.. But I would like to know how you boiled the sludge down to that?? Did you evaporate it in a hot water bath? Or just on the stove? Iv never made a solid extract like taht. Or seen one for that matter. Was it burnt at all?


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Offlineneuro
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Re: San Pedro-Tar base form [Re: John]
    #3544640 - 12/26/04 06:25 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

John said:
no one can anwser this question without it being a wild guess. they would need to know the potency of the cactus you had and they vary a lot. besides you didn't give a final yield so as far as we know 60g could be all 5 pounds or one tenth of what you got from the 5lbs. the best thing to do imo is figure out how much it's concentrated (i.e. if final yield equals 100g then 20g equals one pound cactus) and dose in number of pounds you think is right.




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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: San Pedro-Tar base form [Re: Magickow]
    #3544817 - 12/26/04 07:27 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

What you have there is going to be extremely hard to judge into doses. I'd suggest that you go ahead and take it to the next level. Extract the mesc from it using an acid/base non-polar/polar extraction.

Seriously this is no big difficult process. All it requires is the right chemicals and a little safety consciousness. I happen to know someone that just got through doing something very similar to what I will describe to you right now.

If you feel unequaled to the task, start out by using a small portion of what you have there just to get your hands wet.

Things you'll need:
1.at least 2 glass or HDPE(should show a triangular recycle symbol with a 2 inside of it somewhere on the bottom) plastic jugs or jars. HDPE is preferred because strong lye solutions will etch glass and cause it to break eventually. I know first hand.

2. RedDevil brand lye

3. Muriatic acid (HCL or hydrochloric acid)

4. Acetone

5. Xylene

6. turkey baster

7. a glass or stainless steel funnel

8. cotton balls

all easy to get items (use NO aluminum)

You should not use any type of open flame at any point during this extraction.
Use adequite ventilation at all times.


Extracting
Prepare a solution of lye water by slowly mixing together 1 TBS of lye for every pint of cold water that you think you'll need to dissolve your tar. This will produce a little heat so don't be alarmed. Just swirl it around slowly as you add the lye a little at a time. This is what I will refer to as base or basic water.

Next add you tar. break it up if you can (anything to assist in it's dissolving). Make sure that you fully dissolve the tar as you want it all to be exposed to the base water.

Now add about a pint or so of xylene to the mix. You want enough of a layer to be able to draw off the xylene with the turkey baster later. Shake it all up and let it sit for an hour. If you can see that the xylene layer is separating back out, fine, if not, add a little more pre-made basic water and check again. Now shake it back up and put it away for 24 hours (every second of it).

24 hours later, you want to draw off the xylene so now you need to use the turkey baster to suck it up and put it in a new jar(a mason jar works fine). You don't want any of the water from beneath the xylene to come with it.

Salting
Now you want to mix your acid water in order to dilute it to the proper strength you want. Be very careful not to breath the vapors that come out of the bottle when you open it. HCL come very strong and it will burn you.

You want to add approximately 4-8 drops of HCL acid to 1 cup of water.
Slowly add this acid water to the xylene while gently swirling the liquids around in the jar. Add it all. Put the lid on the jar and shake it all up. Wait a few minutes and shake again.

Once it has returned completely to a separated state loosen the lid on the jar and place it in the freezer. You want the bottom layer(the acid water) to now freeze solid. The xylene will not freeze. Once the water is frozen, work quickly and pour the xylene back into the extraction bottle.

With the water still frozen solid, pour in a little warm water and swirl around and discard quickly. This helps get rid of a little more residual xylene. The rest will evaporate later.

Repeat the extraction and salting steps 4 to 6 times to get all of the goodies. You can reuse the xylene over and over again.

Evaporating
Now thaw out the water and put it in you evaporation dish. A large flat bottomed pyrex dish works best. Using heat(heating pad beneath the dish) or not fan dry it to evaporate the water from the dish. This may take some time depending on how much water you used.

Once all of this is dry you will see a crystalline residue left on the dish. Scrape it off with a razor blade. It will be a brownish powder. It can be used as is but the next procedure is simple if you've got this far.

Cleaning
Put a cotton ball in the spout end of your funnel so that it can filter.

Mix some acetone with your extracted alkaloids and pour it into the funnel with a clean dry jar to catch the liquids. You will notice some color draining through with the acetone. Wash like this with fresh acetone until little to no more color is draining through. Put the funnel somewhere to dry.

Once all acetone smell is gone from the funnel and it's contents you need to pour some hot water into it with it positioned over the evaporation dish. The hot water will dissolve the crystals and allow them to flow through the cotton into the dish.

Evaporate as before. The resulting crystals will be considerably whiter and more pure. This is not only for aesthetics, but also it makes for more accurate dosing.

You can put this powder in capsule to facilitate simple dosing with pre-measured amounts in each capsule. Look to www.erowid.com for dosing guidelines.


--------------------
YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


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InvisibleMagickow
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Re: San Pedro-Tar base form *DELETED* [Re: Ekstaza]
    #3545179 - 12/26/04 08:58 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by Magickow

Reason for deletion: .



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Invisibledblaney
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Re: San Pedro-Tar base form [Re: Magickow]
    #3545215 - 12/26/04 09:03 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I would be careful with that plan Lordlotus...an AVERAGE trip off of pedro is in the neighborhood of 1-2 lbs. tops (AFAIK). Mescaline is a very slow come-up, so by one hour, it is highly unlikely you would feel much even if you did get a full dose. I would advise waiting at least 3-4 hours before re-dosing.

Either way, be careful.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: San Pedro-Tar base form [Re: dblaney]
    #3546226 - 12/27/04 01:28 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Judging mescaline doses by using the wet weight of your cactus is no where near ideal. The water content of your cactus can vary greatly depending on growing conditions when it was cut. Dry weight is the only way that you will get a constant by which to judge you dose.

I must say that it is good to to see that someone is at least using weight instead of length for measuring doses.


--------------------
YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


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Offlinefelixhigh
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Re: San Pedro-Tar base form [Re: Ekstaza]
    #3547570 - 12/27/04 11:49 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

hey ekstaza, great post on the extraction.
i know the info is around there but i'm gonna ask here, being the extraction the subject -
what would be the pH both of the basic and acid water?
can i use anything else than xylene? how about DCM, chloroform, naphta?

would the subject still obtain a gooey product if he poured the plant matter straight in acid water, instead of starting with goo?


FH


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: San Pedro-Tar base form [Re: felixhigh]
    #3549075 - 12/27/04 07:07 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

felixhigh said:
hey ekstaza, great post on the extraction.
i know the info is around there but i'm gonna ask here, being the extraction the subject -
what would be the pH both of the basic and acid water?



I don't know. I'd guess that the base water is around 14 or so. You really can't use too much, in fact, you might want to add a little lye between each extraction.

You can use the acid as strong as you want it as long as you are carefull to use just enough. It can be dripped drop by drop salting out the mesc as you go until no more crystals form from the drops. You would then add water later to do the freeze step and then to evaporation dish. Extra acid just means that you will have more to clean up in the acetone rinse stage.

Quote:

felixhigh said:
can i use anything else than xylene? how about DCM, chloroform, naphta?



Toluene is the only thing that I've heard of as a substitute for xylene. Check out TheNook.org for other possibles.

Quote:

felixhigh said:
would the subject still obtain a gooey product if he poured the plant matter straight in acid water, instead of starting with goo? FH



It's going to be a gooey mess no matter how it's started. The finished product is determined by the steps you take to process it.


--------------------
YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


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Invisiblewandrnshaman
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Re: San Pedro-Tar base form [Re: Ekstaza]
    #3553063 - 12/28/04 05:02 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Hey bro. if you leave your stuff in a basic solution 24 hours as in the extraction step above, alkaloids will begin to break down. Erowid's tek says to pull the xylene off immediately.

'once you do this step(basify to +10ph), you need to continue the extraction at least up through the xylene extraction because leaving the alkaloids in a strongly basic solution will cause them to start breaking down after several hours.'

From Step 3, Basification here:
http://www.erowid.org/plants/cacti/cacti_chemistry2.shtml


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: San Pedro-Tar base form [Re: wandrnshaman]
    #3553089 - 12/28/04 05:05 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Hmm, do you happen to know if that applies only to alkaloids found in cacti, or if that applies to other alkaloids as well?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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Invisiblewandrnshaman
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Re: San Pedro-Tar base form [Re: dblaney]
    #3553215 - 12/28/04 05:33 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I wish I did, sodium hydroxide is pretty caustic though.
:shrug:


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: San Pedro-Tar base form [Re: wandrnshaman]
    #3556297 - 12/29/04 08:27 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

wandrnshaman said:
Hey bro. if you leave your stuff in a basic solution 24 hours as in the extraction step above, alkaloids will begin to break down. Erowid's tek says to pull the xylene off immediately.

'once you do this step(basify to +10ph), you need to continue the extraction at least up through the xylene extraction because leaving the alkaloids in a strongly basic solution will cause them to start breaking down after several hours.'

From Step 3, Basification here:
http://www.erowid.org/plants/cacti/cacti_chemistry2.shtml




That information is wrong.

More work has been done since that TEK has been written and it has been determined that a strong base solution will in fact not break down the alkaloids in any noticeable way.

I know someone who got >1.15% alkaloid from an extraction that only got 2 xylene pulls from it. There was more alkaloids in the extraction jar but it broke. Unless My someone had some really strong cactus, the lye didn't hurt it at all.

If you want to learn more about cactus extractions go to www.thenook.com . It's like the Shroomery of cactii. Erowid is great but many of their TEKs are outdated.


--------------------
YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


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Invisiblewandrnshaman
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Re: San Pedro-Tar base form [Re: Ekstaza]
    #3556631 - 12/29/04 11:05 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I didn't find that at Erowid till after my friend did your tek and he extracted over 1% too so I tend to agree with you. Thanks for posting it but now someone needs to tell Erowid.
:grin:


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Offlinefelixhigh
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Re: San Pedro-Tar base form [Re: Ekstaza]
    #3568134 - 01/01/05 02:27 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

couldn't one avoid the gooey phase by pre-extracting the compounds with alcohol/methanol?


FH


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: San Pedro-Tar base form [Re: felixhigh]
    #3568148 - 01/01/05 02:33 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

And by that token, although it wouldn't be pure, if one did such an alcohol/methanol extraction, would it be useable as is (after evaporation)?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: San Pedro-Tar base form [Re: felixhigh]
    #3575763 - 01/03/05 07:01 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

felixhigh said:
couldn't one avoid the gooey phase by pre-extracting the compounds with alcohol/methanol?


FH




Yes. I've post several times about my alcohol extraction method. If you use methanol, be very certain that you evaporate all of it. I'm still not sure if it would be completely safe.

If you do the A/B extraction that I described earlier, the gooeyness is a non-issue. It stays in the extraction jar and all you have to to work with is the xylene.


--------------------
YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: San Pedro-Tar base form [Re: dblaney]
    #3575782 - 01/03/05 07:08 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney18 said:
And by that token, although it wouldn't be pure, if one did such an alcohol/methanol extraction, would it be useable as is (after evaporation)?




I know for a fact that a grain alcohol extraction is useable as-is after evaporation. The resulting tar/syrup is nasty tasting but theres not much to get down and a glass of water is all thats needed to wash away the taste.

I can't say that I'd trust a methanol extration to be ready-to-use as-is. I'd do an A/B extraction on it to get pure crystals, but that could be done without the methanol step so why bother to add it.


--------------------
YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


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OfflineGNIOM1498
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Re: San Pedro-Tar base form [Re: Ekstaza]
    #3593198 - 01/07/05 12:25 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

DO NOT GET IT AROUND 14 MESCALINE STARTS TO BREAK DOWN IN BASIC WATER. ur probably be safe with 10-11 get litmus paper. remeber to the extraction as fast as possible once u get it basic


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----ALL MY POSTS ARE FICTIONAL-------


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