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Invisibleusefulidiot
It's notfascist, it's...Neoconservative!

Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 732
The Masturbatory Society
    #3543029 - 12/25/04 11:12 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

The Masturbatory Society
By Ziauddin Sardar
New Statesman.com
12-24-4

w

2005: The decline of sex - Viagra is just the start: we'll soon have pills that make you feel deep love and video games that give vibrations. Ziauddin Sardar on the masturbatory society.

Is your sex life normal? The question was raised recently on the Oprah Winfrey Show. Tell us, the show asked its 20 million viewers, what turns you on, what turns you off, and what makes good sex.

The problem with such questions is that there are no "normal" answers. The normal is problematic because our ideas about sex have changed fundamentally. What constitutes normal is constantly refurbished. Its boundaries shift rapidly, and continue to shift. So what was abnormal yesterday - say, pornography - becomes normal today. And what is shunned today (say paedophilia) may just as easily become normal tomorrow.

One huge jump was provided by Viagra. In less than six years since the impotence pill came on the market, Viagra and its competitors, Levitra and Cialis, have transformed sexual norms and practices. As Meika Loe argues in The Rise of Viagra (New York University Press), it has redefined the concept of normal and changed the language of sex.

From the beginning, this was a treatment branded and marketed as normal. Impotence was called "erectile dysfunction", or simply ED - a common condition, as the football legend Pele assured us in TV ads, but not normal. Moreover, it did not arise from psychological causes or physical damage; rather, it was a simple medical condition rectified by a pill. Suddenly, drug company surveys discovered that more than half the US adult male population suffered from ED; figures for Europe were not far behind.

So if you can't get it up because you're pissed, stressed out, simply not in the mood or no longer find your partner attractive, you are actually suffering from a disease. And like all diseases, it must be cured. The cure is to swallow a pill and have sex no matter what, anywhere, any time, whenever. This has now become the norm.

Viagra is another step in stripping sex of all its complexity. Sex has been reduced to a simple question: for men, "how big?"; for women, "how long?". Combine these conundrums with other features of a market economy, such as availability on demand, choice, flexibility to mix'n'match, and we have new definitions not just of sex and love but of what it means to be human.

Today, to be normal, humans have sex right up to their last breath. It's the way to go. Sex is no longer the indulgence of the young. Nowadays, it is people over 50 who are having the most sex. With demographic shifts, high divorce rates and early retirement, the erstwhile golden generation of Sixties swingers who let it all hang out are now the "silver singles" (as they are called in America). The preoccupations of their youth have been sustained through their later years by medical enhancements. The wet dreams of 60-year-olds, who turned on to chemical enhancement in the Sixties, are a manifest example of future normality for us all.

What Viagra actually treats is loss of male power. In a confusing, depersonalising world busy reassigning status, regendering the social order, manipulating the ever-increasing demands of a commodified existence, sexual potency is the last bastion. Men, who have lost status and power almost everywhere, from workplace to home, must repair to the bedroom. Only there can they find the redemption of their true nature.

However, in an age of sexual equality, men cannot be left alone with their predicament. The other half of humanity, too, finds it is not exempt from malfunction. Just a few months ago, the disease "female sexual dysfunction" hit the headlines. But female sexuality being what it is, women probably need something more than a pill. Simple enhanced blood flow, as laboratory tests have shown, is not good enough. So a female Viagra won't do the job as well as a vibrator or a dildo - soon to be widely and cheaply available from a Boots near you. A vibrator outperforms even a man on Viagra.

More serious aids to female performance are in the pipeline. In the next few years, patches and drugs to enhance vaginal lubrication and sensitivity will become available. A US surgeon has already patented a pacemaker-sized device which, implanted under the skin, triggers an orgasm. Last month, clinical trials for the device were approved by the US Food and Drug Administration. Within a decade, it will be normal for every woman to have a perpetual orgasm whenever she wants it, wherever she needs it.

Love, too, will be available on demand. Recent research on love suggests that it consists of three basic biochemical elements. First, testosterone - which produces lust. Second, a group of amphetamine-like chemicals (dopamine, noradrenaline and phenylethylamine) produces feelings of euphoria that lead to infatuation. Third, if a relationship survives the first two rushes, a new biochemical response emerges, based on oxytocin, vasopressin and endorphins. This produces feelings of intimacy, trust and affection. Pharmaceutical companies are currently working on this third phase. So a "love pill" that modulates your subtler emotions and takes you straight to deep feelings of intimacy, trust and affection is just over the horizon. Science will fulfil the fairy tale. It will come up with a genuine love potion.

The sexual liberation of every woman and man approaches its apotheosis: availability on demand with peak performance, assured gratification and enduring emotion. But much more has been let out of the bottle. The physical and psychological barriers to sex, identified as the ultimate metaphor for all the ills of humanity, had to be overcome. The consequence is that most sexual taboos have evaporated. No matter how dark your thoughts, how unethical your desires, how absurd your fetish, everything is normal. Your desire to dress up as a stuffed toy, your dreams of having sex with obese or dead people, your obsession with plastic or rubber, your fixation with asphyxiation - all that is sexually driven is OK.

Pornography's status as a taboo is rapidly disappearing. It has become part of the mainstream of western culture. Ancient Egyptians, Greeks and Romans had their erotica as esoterica on scrolls, pottery and frescos. Hindus have their erotic sculptures on temples. But in western culture pornography in unparalleled quantities and forms is communicated in every mass medium. Never before in history has there been so much pornography to be had by so many in such numerous ways.

Everyone is now just a click away from explicit, hard-core material. It is impossible to miss pornography on the internet because it seeks you out persistently, unannounced, at every opportunity. It is there on Channels 4 and 5, Sky and innumerable digital channels every night.

On MTV's reality show The Real World, you can witness bisexual group sex. Explicit sex, including shots of erect penises, can be viewed on Sky's revisionist western drama Deadwood. Michael Winterbottom's 9 Songs, which will go on general release shortly, offers a stream of close-ups of intercourse, fellatio, ejaculation and cunnilingus. The French art-house director Catherine Breillat has pioneered the transfer of porn stars into mainstream cinema. Her new film, Anatomy of Hell, is as graphic as it is bizarre. And if that doesn't satisfy you, you can go to a new breed of "pornaoke bars", just opened in Edinburgh, where you can groan and grind karaoke-style to porno tapes.

When pornography becomes normal, where will we go next?

There are only two taboos left: sex with children, and incest. Attempts to "normalise" paedophilia have begun. A thesis by Richard Yuill, awarded a PhD by Glasgow University in December 2004, suggests that sex between adults and minors is a good and positive thing. Yuill's research, based on interviews with paedophiles and their victims, "challenges the assumption" that paedophiles are inherently abusive. It is only a matter of time before other academics start arguing that incest, too, is decent and wholesome. Graphic art films and television documentaries will follow. The organisations campaigning for the rights of paedophiles will have their case for "normality" made for them.

They may then be able to take their place among the bewildering array of sexual orientations already being normalised. Once upon a time, there were heterosexuals and the love that dared not speak its name. Gay men and lesbians have long since lost their reticence. Then bisexuals, transsexuals and the "kinky" found their identity. Now we have intersexuals and the polyamorous. A few months ago, New Scientist announced the discovery, in breathless prose, of asexuals. These folk don't like to have sex - horror of horrors - with anybody. There are even orientations within orientations. So we have such self-definition as non-op transsexual, TG butch, femme queen, gender-queer, cross-dresser, third gender, drag king or queen and transboy. In one recent episode of Channel 5's CSI: crime scene investigation, a murder victim was said to be part of a community of "plushies", people who enjoy sex while dressed up as stuffed animals.

It is now normal to have your breasts removed or added to, have new genitals constructed, or sprinkle a dash of hormones for the appropriate, desired effect. Things are about to become even more complex. Within a decade or so, you will be able to modify your body almost totally, as you wish. You will be able to turn off all physical signs of gender, switch off the hormones and get rid of all secondary sexual characteristics. Then you can add on the bits you wish and "sculpt" your body in any shape you like. When gene therapy becomes common, things will be even easier. Already, there are people who are experimenting with this; and a "body-mod" subculture is thriving on the internet.

What you can't do in reality will soon be available in simulation. The emerging technology of haptics, or the telecommunication of sensation using a computer interface, will enable you to live your most horrific dreams in virtual reality. Haptic technologies simulate physical sensation of real objects and feed them to the user. The first generation of haptic technology can be experienced in certain video games for the Sony PlayStation where the joystick is used to simulate vibrations. The next generation, on its way from Rutgers University, will simulate pressure, texture and heat. Combine this with state-of-the-art graphics and some innovative software and you have a complete pornographic universe. As Eric Garland points out in the December 2004 issue of the American magazine The Futurist, among its first uses could be "pornography involving children and featuring violence". But what's the harm, as it is only a digitised child?

Am I the only person to wonder if the constant shifting of the boundaries of the normal, while increasing our obsession with sex, has really improved our sex lives? On the contrary, I would argue, it has led to a decline in real sex. Genuine intimacy cannot be generated through a pill. Neither can sincere, unconditional love be simulated. When sex is reduced to mechanics and endurance, there is little to differentiate it from plumbing and maintenance. When gender becomes meaningless, sex becomes empty. When sexual choice becomes an end in itself, then the end is destined to be tragic.

Sex used to be intercourse because it was part of a context, a loving relationship. When sex is just sex, without any context, what good does it do you? That is the crux of the problem. It becomes the ultimate narcissism, the sole gratification of self-love.

Welcome to the masturbatory society.

_____

Ziauddin Sardar is editor of Futures, the monthly journal of policy, planning and futures studies.

http://www.newstatesman.com/200501010019


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Anonymous #1

Re: The Masturbatory Society [Re: usefulidiot] * 1
    #3543074 - 12/25/04 11:40 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

it's not just sex. it's everything.


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: The Masturbatory Society [Re: usefulidiot]
    #3543461 - 12/26/04 01:58 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

All this research on the chemical, biological and physical componenets of sex. Not necessarily bad in itself, yet we still have no cure for such diseases like MS, Cerebral Palsey and Cancer. It occurs to me that some have their priorities screwed up..


Edited by Le_Canard (12/26/04 02:06 AM)


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Anonymous #1

Re: The Masturbatory Society [Re: Le_Canard]
    #3543481 - 12/26/04 02:04 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

i think that these guys who say that LOVE is just a couple chemicals in the brain, and that they know what they are, are getting a little ahead of themselves. they should get out of the lab a little more i think.


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OfflineMetaMountain
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Re: The Masturbatory Society [Re: usefulidiot]
    #3544789 - 12/26/04 07:20 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

(Optional first step)
Lets take a vow:

    -Anyone and everyone can have consensual sex with anyone and everyone-

I dont think we can influence the course of sexual evolution,be it drugs or anything.Its hard-wired in our systems to procreate....no matter what,and we do it as much as we can,but,the physical demands of our lifestlyes are minimum thus we become lazy and fat,and simply pop a pill to fwuck!

The sub-culture every where is mostly to do with drugs and/or 'deviant'(or what society calls..deviant) sexual behaviour.Cause they are the outcasts. 
The same kind of discrimination that the drug users face from society?

Your say...

Ps: Let people relate to each other Physically however they want,its not our business really.Cmon :heart:


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: The Masturbatory Society [Re: usefulidiot]
    #3546269 - 12/27/04 01:40 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


There are only two taboos left: sex with children, and incest. Attempts to "normalize" paedophilia have begun. A thesis by Richard Yuill, awarded a Ph.D. by Glasgow University in December 2004, suggests that sex between adults and minors is a good and positive thing. Yuill's research, based on interviews with paedophiles and their victims, "challenges the assumption" that paedophiles are inherently abusive. It is only a matter of time before other academics start arguing that incest, too, is decent and wholesome. Graphic art films and television documentaries will follow. The organizations campaigning for the rights of paedophiles will have their case for "normality" made for them.




Attempts to normalize paedophilia have begun....?? WTF....? This article seems to take bits and pieces of the obscure and imply that it is fact - or going to be fact.... Especially in this paedophilia and incest category.... So some brand new Ph.D. writes a thesis, and it is somehow considered to be the "normal" direction of what is considered as a "good and positive thing"...? I don't think so.... The very thought makes me sick....

I cannot back up my following statements with proof, but these are my thoughts....
1) Children are not physically ready for the act of sex....
2) Children are not emotionally ready for the act of sex....
3) Even in the article above, the children are titled as "VICTIMS" - implying force or rape, not consent....
4) For this "Ph.D." to consider pedophilia to be normal would be saying that un-consentual sex or rape is "normal" as well....
5) In prison, the pedophiles are singled out as the lowest of the low - EVEN in the unlawful criminal society....
6) If it was "normal", there would be blow up sex dolls of children.... (An absurdly sick thought in itself....)
7) Michael Jackson is currently being crucified for "sleeping in the same bed" as children.... He is one of the richest well known people on the face of this planet.... Who am I to judge what really happened there at his ranch - I wasn't there.... What I do know is that he did admit to sleeping in the same bed as the children, and that alone creeps me out.... So if he is being crucified for "innocently sleeping in the same bed as children", how the hell is paedophilia to be considered a "good and positive" thing in society...?
8) I have seen the long term results of molestation, from dating a past girlfriend (she was 24 when I dated her).... She was molested at the age of 11 by an older cousin - once.... Psychologically, it effects her every single day of her life, and has drastically changed who she would have been - had she not been touched.... At that young age of her emotional maturity, she had developed a second or multiple-personallity to deal with sexual situations.... It was not by choice, it was the result of not being emotionally mature enough to handle a sexual situation at such a young age.... Thus stunting and destroying her natural maturing of "normal" sexual emotions - and how it actually fits in with love and relationships....

I would be more apt to believe that this Richard Yuill did a thesis on a taboo subject to get noticed, and I would *think* that there is a very small number of people that would actually buy into this theory - the pedophiles themselves.... Maybe I should become a Ph.D. and write a thesis on how it would be a "good and positive thing" to absolutely destroy the normal development of emotional/psychological thinking in every child by raping them all at an unripened age - as a "rite of passage".... Seems that certain higher members of the Catholic church have already put this plan into effect, and for some reason "untouchables" from the law of the land - irony in it's sickest form, and the fact that they are "untouchable" after touching the innocents of a child, irony.... Absurd, but just as parallel in thinking as Mr. Yuill in his article.... (I left the "Dr." off on purpose...)



Quote:


The problem with such questions is that there are no "normal" answers. The normal is problematic because our ideas about sex have changed fundamentally. What constitutes normal is constantly refurbished. Its boundaries shift rapidly, and continue to shift. So what was abnormal yesterday - say, pornography - becomes normal today. And what is shunned today (say paedophilia) may just as easily become normal tomorrow.




Another stooopid comparison.... Sex is a "normal and healthy act".... It is a primal urge that is hardcoded into our brains for procreation - and is a normal part of a healthy relationship.... If it wasn't, there would only be plants, bacteria, molds, and viruses on this earth.... *Most* pornography is the recording of a "normal or natural act".... And as adults, we have the choice of viewing such recordings in the privacy of one's home - or not.... To compare and presume that this innocent - victimless "taboo of yesterday" will set a trend of an unnatural act such as paedophilia to "easily become the normal of tomorrow" is absolutely absurd....

At least that is what I think about this article - and the topic that I chose to debate.... There are a few other things about this article that I do not agree with, but my complete debate would be longer than the article itself.... I feel very strongly about my arguments for real reasons.... In my past, I have had 1 girlfriend that was molested, and 2 more that had been raped and sexually abused.... Nothing left but shells, walls, masks, and multiple-personallity disorders.... The "men" that committed these atrocities got away with murder, because all of these women emotionally now connect sex with the trauma that was forced upon them.... They will never be allowed psychologically to live as though it never happened - weather they believe it or not.... It is saddening, and builds a deep rage and hatred within me.... Thus my response....

ChoW~,
>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: The Masturbatory Society [Re: usefulidiot]
    #3547916 - 12/27/04 01:52 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Bonobos are the most peaceful chimps, and to them a handjob is a handshake.

Fuck taboos, they weren't good for anything anyways. If the weird becomes normal, then cool, it's normal now, problem solved.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: The Masturbatory Society [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3549137 - 12/27/04 07:21 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

GimpyTomCat said:
Attempts to normalize paedophilia have begun....?? WTF....? This article seems to take bits and pieces of the obscure and imply that it is fact - or going to be fact.... Especially in this paedophilia and incest category.... So some brand new Ph.D. writes a thesis, and it is somehow considered to be the "normal" direction of what is considered as a "good and positive thing"...? I don't think so.... The very thought makes me sick....




The doctor who had homosexuality removed from the DSM-IV and not classified as a "mental disorder" is on the rampage to have pedophilia removed as well. You have to admit, some 15 year olds can have sex with an 18 year old and it isn't a forceful act.
Quote:


1) Children are not physically ready for the act of sex....
2) Children are not emotionally ready for the act of sex....




In your opinion...
What age are they "physically ready"? 12? 13? 14? Who determines their emotional readiness?
Quote:


7) Michael Jackson is currently being crucified for "sleeping in the same bed" as children.... He is one of the richest well known people on the face of this planet.... Who am I to judge what really happened there at his ranch - I wasn't there.... What I do know is that he did admit to sleeping in the same bed as the children, and that alone creeps me out.... So if he is being crucified for "innocently sleeping in the same bed as children", how the hell is paedophilia to be considered a "good and positive" thing in society...?




All of your points are devoid of logic. It isn't CURRENTLY seen as a wholesome activity, but it COULD BE in the future. Why are you arguing the present when the thesis states that it currently isn't accepted?
Quote:


8) I have seen the long term results of molestation, from dating a past girlfriend (she was 24 when I dated her).... She was molested at the age of 11 by an older cousin - once.... Psychologically, it effects her every single day of her life, and has drastically changed who she would have been - had she not been touched.... At that young age of her emotional maturity, she had developed a second or multiple-personallity to deal with sexual situations.... It was not by choice, it was the result of not being emotionally mature enough to handle a sexual situation at such a young age.... Thus stunting and destroying her natural maturing of "normal" sexual emotions - and how it actually fits in with love and relationships....




One subjective case does not a case make.
Quote:


I would be more apt to believe that this Richard Yuill did a thesis on a taboo subject to get noticed, and I would *think* that there is a very small number of people that would actually buy into this theory - the pedophiles themselves.... Maybe I should become a Ph.D. and write a thesis on how it would be a "good and positive thing" to absolutely destroy the normal development of emotional/psychological thinking in every child by raping them all at an unripened age - as a "rite of passage"....




It's funny how your subjective anecdotal story of your ex g/f seems to hodl great weight, but the weight of this doctor and his interviews doesn't mean anything.
Quote:


Seems that certain higher members of the Catholic church have already put this plan into effect, and for some reason "untouchables" from the law of the land - irony in it's sickest form, and the fact that they are "untouchable" after touching the innocents of a child, irony.... Absurd, but just as parallel in thinking as Mr. Yuill in his article.... (I left the "Dr." off on purpose...)




YOU ARE TO COOL!
Quote:


Another stooopid comparison.... Sex is a "normal and healthy act".... It is a primal urge that is hardcoded into our brains for procreation - and is a normal part of a healthy relationship.... If it wasn't, there would only be plants, bacteria, molds, and viruses on this earth.... *Most* pornography is the recording of a "normal or natural act".... And as adults, we have the choice of viewing such recordings in the privacy of one's home - or not.... To compare and presume that this innocent - victimless "taboo of yesterday" will set a trend of an unnatural act such as paedophilia to "easily become the normal of tomorrow" is absolutely absurd....




So at how many days, weeks, months and years is a person developed enough to have sex? What is your final law on this? 17 years, 364 days, 23 hours and 58 minutes is a disgusting forceful act, but 2 minutes later it's a beautiful thing, an expression of nature?
Quote:


At least that is what I think about this article - and the topic that I chose to debate.... There are a few other things about this article that I do not agree with, but my complete debate would be longer than the article itself.... I feel very strongly about my arguments for real reasons.... In my past, I have had 1 girlfriend that was molested, and 2 more that had been raped and sexually abused.... Nothing left but shells, walls, masks, and multiple-personallity disorders....




Why are you attracted to women like that?


--------------------


Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man


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OfflineGog
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Re: The Masturbatory Society [Re: ]
    #3551006 - 12/28/04 01:10 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I don't think you know what chemicals are.


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OfflineGog
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Re: The Masturbatory Society [Re: Gog]
    #3551014 - 12/28/04 01:11 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Jesus had a handbasket ooh lala. Mary hang down on a chicken's broken libmb.


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OfflineMrBump
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Re: The Masturbatory Society [Re: Gog]
    #3551141 - 12/28/04 01:45 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

:ban:


--------------------
If it weren't for the bloody corpses, I wouldn't have any corpses at all.

There are two ways to get to the top of an oak tree: start climbing or sit on an acorn.

Are you a carrot, an egg, or a coffee bean?


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: The Masturbatory Society [Re: ]
    #3552219 - 12/28/04 01:03 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

i think that these guys who say that LOVE is just a couple chemicals in the brain, and that they know what they are, are getting a little ahead of themselves. they should get out of the lab a little more i think.

There's no scientist that will tell you they know the exact mechanism behind certain human emotions. Doesn't mean that there isn't an exact mechanism behind human emotions though. Experience won't necessarily teach you how love works or what it is, in fact, experience probably clouds these realities with all kinds of emotions.

Sometimes it's impossible to understand things without being able to distance yourself from them. The truth generally isn't all magic and pixies.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: The Masturbatory Society [Re: Le_Canard]
    #3552222 - 12/28/04 01:04 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

All this research on the chemical, biological and physical componenets of sex. Not necessarily bad in itself, yet we still have no cure for such diseases like MS, Cerebral Palsey and Cancer. It occurs to me that some have their priorities screwed up..

There's tons and tons and tons and tons, etc... of research going into various diseases. Far more funding for that kind of research than for sexual research. So in response to your statement about people having their priorities messed up: Huh?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflinemaldororDX
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Re: The Masturbatory Society [Re: usefulidiot]
    #3553219 - 12/28/04 05:33 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I was always under the impression that mainly old people took viagra. The kind of people that wouldn't be having sex otherwise. How then do you draw the conclusion that viagra is helping to destroy our sexual identities or whatever? It's an interesting article, but a little bit paranoid I'd say.


--------------------
At his house in R'lyeh dead Cthulhu lies in bed with yr. mom.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: The Masturbatory Society [Re: SoopaX]
    #3559389 - 12/30/04 12:19 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

SoopaX, Well, this is the first time I have come back to this thread since I posted.... You have discredited everything I have said in sharing my thoughts on a certain aspect of this article.... With a passion I might add, but you share none of your actual views or thoughts or any substance to back up your arguments.... So, where would YOU draw the line....?


Quote:

You have to admit, some 15 year olds can have sex with an 18 year old and it isn't a forceful act.



I don't think the example you gave her lies within the definition of pedophilia.... I think in most states it is considered Statutory(sp) rape (under the age of 17-18), but I also *think* that the age of consent in a state, or a few states rule that age 13 is the age of consent.... Either way, consent and non-forcefullness is what you are trying to convey.... In trusting my thinking, I looked up the actual definition of "Pedophilia", and the definition does state or imply that it is indeed a forceful act, or an act of coercion.... Not consent....

http://www.umkc.edu/sites/hsw/issues/pedophil.html
Quote:


Pedophilia involves reoccurring sexual arousal and desires or fantasies involving sexual impulses toward a pre-adolescent child or children. The pedophile must be above age 16, and the sexual attraction must involve a child of age 13 or younger who is at least 5 years younger than the adult. A pedophile has either acted on these sexual impulses, or the fantasies and / or sexual arousal and impulses disturb the individual. The pedophile is sexually aroused because the child is a child, regardless of the pedophile's sexual orientation, or the child's gender.

The amount of sexual activity engaged in by the pedophile who acts on their urges varies from admiring an undressed child, to exhibiting themselves to the child, to engaging in masturbation with the child, to caressing and fondling the child. Other sexual activities, usually involving varying degrees of force, include performing oral stimulation on the child, or penetrating the child's mouth, vagina or anus with fingers, foreign objects, or penis.

Pedophiles frequently rationalize and make excuses for their behavior saying that the incidents were educational, that the child derived sexual gratification from the encounters, or that the child had been the sexual seducer. However, It is important to note that the child is not in any way responsible for the behavior, the perpetrators of pedophilia just try to justify their inappropriate actions.

Sexual activities may be limited to family members or may include children in the general population. Victims of sexual molestation may be threatened to ensure secrecy. Frequent perpetrators devise elaborate procedures for getting close to children, such as becoming involved with women with young children, providing a foster home for young children, sharing children with other pedophiles, or kidnapping children. Often, the pedophile is courteous and respectful to the child for the purpose of gaining the trust, devotion, and affection of the child, and to promote secrecy. Onset typically occurs in adolescence, although sometimes much later.

Any form of actual or suggested sexual activity with a child under age 13 is illegal as identified as sexual misconduct involving a child, or abuse of a child, and includes exposing one's genitals or coercing a child to expose their genitals.





Maybe you have misconstrued the actual definition....?


Quote:

In your opinion...
What age are they "physically ready"? 12? 13? 14? Who determines their emotional readiness?




I am not sure I have an answer for this question.... Do you....? Where does one draw the line...? And why did you choose to start at age 12 in your question....? Why not start at 3 or 4, or even younger...? It is the reality in pedophilia.... Do you honestly think there are age "rules" in the minds of pedophiles...?


Quote:

All of your points are devoid of logic. It isn't CURRENTLY seen as a wholesome activity, but it COULD BE in the future. Why are you arguing the present when the thesis states that it currently isn't accepted?



All of my thoughts are devoid of logic....? I guess I don't understand your point here.... Would it make you feel better if I agreed with everything in this article....? Should I not share my thoughts...? I was arguing the statement that said "Pedophilia might just well become the normal of tomorrow...." Again, through my own thoughts.... You don't have to agree with me, they are my thoughts.... I would say that YOUR attack is devoid of substance....

Quote:

One subjective case does not a case make.
It's funny how your subjective anecdotal story of your ex g/f seems to hodl great weight, but the weight of this doctor and his interviews doesn't mean anything.



I never said that the whole article didn't mean anything, just didn't agree with the point I chose to argue.... And I have stated my one subjective case because it has been part of my life's experience.... And it is not merely one case, just one solid example.... After I did some studying up on the subject to see what I could do to help the girlfriend I loved so deeply at the time, it doesn't take very long to see that there are MANY MANY others.... Do a Google search on "Multi Personality Disorders" and you will start to see a common connection.... You may be very surprised at how many people quietly suffer....

I brought up the parallel to the Catholic church, and the article, and you say that I am "TOO COOL...?" In fact I was born and raised Catholic, to learn from the righteousness of people who have devoted their lives to spreading the word of the Lord.... People that you are told to trust, and learn from.... And I am "TOO COOL" for bringing up the fact that those people DECIDED to break an oath to serve God, and they got away with it....? OK, I guess I am cool...???


Quote:

So at how many days, weeks, months and years is a person developed enough to have sex? What is your final law on this? 17 years, 364 days, 23 hours and 58 minutes is a disgusting forceful act, but 2 minutes later it's a beautiful thing, an expression of nature?



Again, I think you are taking the definition of pedophilia (which is forceful and disgusting - in my opinion of how I understand the definition) and are in fact changing it into another totally different circumstance....


Quote:

Why are you attracted to women like that?




I am not necessarily attracted to those kind of women, they seem to be attracted to me.... And it is not something that they wear on their shoulder for the world to see, it takes a LONG time to actually realize and notice the problems - if they allow you.... It is very saddening to love someone, find the actual root of a problem, and not be able to do a damn thing about it....

I could say much more, but what is the point....? You obviously do not agree with me, and prolly~ will find fault in everything I have said here in the defense of my own personal thoughts.... They are MY thoughts, again, you do not have to agree with them or respect them.... But next time if you are to discredit every single thing that I have to say, throw a little substance into your arguments.... And maybe take the time to understand the definition of what you are choosing to stand up and fight for....

ChoW~
>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Offlinerunnerup
student

Registered: 03/23/04
Posts: 708
Loc: USA
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
Re: The Masturbatory Society [Re: Le_Canard]
    #3559572 - 12/30/04 12:49 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ToiletDuk said:
All this research on the chemical, biological and physical componenets of sex. Not necessarily bad in itself, yet we still have no cure for such diseases like MS, Cerebral Palsey and Cancer. It occurs to me that some have their priorities screwed up..




people are searching for cures. the people that do this research on sexual fundamentals are not capable of creating pharmaceuticals for cures. they are 2 totally separate disciplines.


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InvisibleLe_Canard
Slightly Nutty

Registered: 05/17/03
Posts: 93,867
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Re: The Masturbatory Society [Re: runnerup]
    #3559735 - 12/30/04 01:15 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Well this is true, but how much R&D dollars went into making a pill to make dicks hard? Money and time that COULD have gone to more serious research, such as AIDS research, etc.


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Offlinerunnerup
student

Registered: 03/23/04
Posts: 708
Loc: USA
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Re: The Masturbatory Society [Re: Le_Canard]
    #3562623 - 12/30/04 09:02 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

well... these are totally different channels. unless the capital came from the government I dont see how this makes sense.

I see your argument and I agree with you. although it cannot be applied to this topic.


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Offlineenotake2
Stop Bush's war
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Re: The Masturbatory Society [Re: SoopaX]
    #3563939 - 12/31/04 02:40 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah I agree with Gimpy. The kid is used as an object of sexual gratification and they are usually heavily manipulated by the perpetrator. It is not an act that can take place in a normal, loving, intimate relationship. Kids are not old enough to be able to make decisions about sex like an adult and the effects of sexual violation can be really bad. The child can develop PTSD from sexual abuse as well as other types of mental disorders. Many people in psychiatric hospitals have been sexually abused as children and up to 60% of heroin addicts in treatment. I guess different kids will feel ready for sex at different ages. But I don't think manipulating/forcing a kid to have sex when they are impressionable and young should ever become normal. They need to be old enough to decide.


--------------------
Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
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Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,393
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Re: The Masturbatory Society [Re: Le_Canard]
    #3565585 - 12/31/04 03:39 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Well this is true, but how much R&D dollars went into making a pill to make dicks hard?

Actually, Viagra was discovered accidentally while researching drugs for heart conditions.

Seems like people like to think society is more fucked up than it actually is, to the point where they'll actually invent problems, like claiming there's not enough focus on disease research.  :rolleyes:


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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