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OfflinePsilocybe Ryan
enthusiast
Registered: 01/06/01
Posts: 85
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
Just another spiriruality question
    #354097 - 07/13/01 10:42 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

This is just one of the many questions I have on spirituality. If Jesus is god then wouldn't anyone who believes in god go to heaven?



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Offlinemystikwitch
Stranger
Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 2
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
Re: Just another spiriruality question [Re: Psilocybe Ryan]
    #354112 - 07/13/01 11:11 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Interesting that you believe Jesus is God, according to Christianity, isn't Jesus the Son of God?
Unless of course you get all mixed up with the Catholics view of the "mystery of the trinity" in
that God the father, God the son and God the holy spirit all are one, maybe that's what you meant?
Also, if the God of Christianity is all knowing and all forgiving, considering this doctorine, won't
everyone go to this "implied" heaven????..



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OfflineCACA
veteran
Registered: 07/12/01
Posts: 1,122
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: Just another spiriruality question [Re: mystikwitch]
    #354124 - 07/13/01 11:27 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I am not an active subscriber to any religion, but if you wanted to see the truth in the bible, you would see it and if you don't want to -which, by your name and what you said, it looks like you don't want to- you won't see it. The Bible itself says that "wise" men won't be able to understand it. Trying to pick the Bible apart just goes to show how much fear people have for its truth. I have NEVER seen a Christian dissecting other peoples religions - not that there aren't any, but, let's face it, he isn't doing it because he WANTS to find something ANYTHING false so he can justify himself. The thing about the Trinity is the same thing you do when you read a book. You read with your eyes, you turn the pages with your hands and you understand with your brain.. (i think thats how it goes) or easier you can just say that its like turning on a lightswitch.. you can't do it without a hand, the switch -whatever it may be- and the electricity. (generally speaking) Anyways, I'm not pushing anything on anyone, but I know what is true and I would hate to see something like what you said go unanswered.



--------------------
"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John 15:5


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OfflinePsilocybe Ryan
enthusiast
Registered: 01/06/01
Posts: 85
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
Re: Just another spiriruality question [Re: Psilocybe Ryan]
    #354155 - 07/13/01 12:20 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I liked your posts. Sorry about the two topics. It was an accident. Thats what I meant about 3 being one. But I have done a lot of research on different religions, and have thought things through over and over. I can't come to terms to believe and take the bible literally like so many people do. I find the more you try to explain things they get so much harder. When ever things start to make sense to me, it feels so good, but at the same time I admit I fear the thing christiancs call hell. This is because there is a very little possibility that most christians are right, and I will burn in hell. What if there was no language developed yet. There wouldn't be so many people trying to explain something by use of words of influencing others. People would get to experience a spiritual life based on what the individual experiences. I know I am rambling, I hope this makes sense. I really enjoy spiritual discussions, and love all your opinions. I really try to make sense of what the truth is, and find it hard.



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Offlinemystikwitch
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Registered: 06/29/01
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Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
Re: Just another spiriruality question [Re: CACA]
    #354198 - 07/13/01 01:56 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

what exactly is it that I said that offended you, CACA? Never saw a Christian pick apart another's religion?are you serious?
Catholics insist they are the only ones going to heaven, fact,I was baptized Catholic, and taught by nuns..
Certain Baptist religions insist unless you say their prayer of acceptance/ dedication, you shall surely never reap the rewards of heaven. Trinity is what is called "acceptance" the human mind cannot truly explain so you "accept" just like all religions, you accept what is taught, because it HAS to be true because it has come from the Holy Bible. Right? My nikname could be misleading, I agree, but what does your nikname mean???



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InvisibleKid
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 2,365
Re: Just another spiriruality question [Re: CACA]
    #354568 - 07/14/01 08:11 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

> I have NEVER seen a Christian dissecting other peoples

You obviously haven't looked hard enough. How about theologians?

> let's face it, he isn't doing it because he WANTS to find something ANYTHING false so he can justify himself.

What the fuck are you talking about? The Crusades were ENTIRELY JUSTIFIED by Christian Theologians. Much slaughter of the "infidels" was justified by theological thought (save the savages from themselves).



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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 13,116
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 7 hours, 54 minutes
Re: Just another spiriruality question [Re: Psilocybe Ryan]
    #355742 - 07/16/01 11:52 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

This is not an exercise in logic, but the formulation in Christian theology is more accurately stated that 'God was in Christ,' rather than 'Jesus is God,' which is neither accurate or correct. The historical person Iesus/Yeshua/Isso (Greek/Hebrew/Aramaic), is, by theological definition, the Incarnation of the Logos. The Logos is that aspect of the Godhead through which creation occurs, yet the Logos itself is Uncreated - Eternal. This means that in the person of Iesus, there was (theoretically and theologically) a Mysterious conjoining of an earthly soul and the Divine Logos. Humans are ordinarily seen as being a tripartite body-soul-spirit, but in the case of Iesus, the Logos was also present in a unique way. There have been numerous formulations of human-divine percentages of Iesus, all with names of their teachers: Arianism, Sabellianism, Pelagianism, Monophisitism, Modalism, etc. All have been deemed incorrect and thus heresies. The Way in which God was present in space-time, within and around the human Iesus, is considered to be a Mystery because it is utterly transcendental and is therefore not comprehensible to the finite mind. Only the mystic, when, as Saint Paul put it, is "...caught up to the third heaven," are such Mysteries infused directly into the mind, but remain "unspeakable" according to Paul, because they are ineffable - there is no language to describe it. Son of God is found throughout the Old Testament, and generally refers to a King. It is not a unique appellation, but later took on significant metaphysical importance by the time the Gospels were written. Much theology, Trinity included, was unknown at the time that Iesus walked the planet. Much of it is Neo-Platonic in nature - very Greek, and not at all Jewish. Iesus never would have discussed the Triune nature of the Godhead. This was not a Jewish formulation even though there were several Names for God, and at least one - "Elohim," which is used in the beginning of the Book of Genesis, is a Name that infers plurality in the Godhead. This does not mean multiple gods, but rather a 'divine economia,' a living relationship within the One God. This is the basis for Trinitarian thought as well as the idea that "God is love," because there must be an 'I' and a 'Thou' between which 'love' can transpire. I, Thou and Love itself is the basis for the Christian Trinity.



--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMunkyKing
journeyman

Registered: 01/24/00
Posts: 36
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Just another spiriruality question [Re: mystikwitch]
    #356652 - 07/18/01 04:56 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

don't confuse christians with institutionalized christianity. The Catholic Church may contain some christians, but is not all christian. Some Christians may be theologians, but not all theologians are Christian. Read the teachings of Christ and then you can tell a Christian from a Church-goer or wave maker. Most people accept what they read blindly because they are reading with their eyes closed and their ears shut. The wisdom of His teachings are foolishness to those who lack His Spirit. He has made the fool a stumbling block to the wise, and the weak have confounded the strong. You'll never understand what He is saying until you shut your mouth. And you won't be able to shut your mouth until you step down off of your pedestal and humble yourself before Him.

Oh, and if you ask, my name represents my foolishness -- I'm the king of fools and know my place is at the foot of the table, not the head.



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OfflineJTriash
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Registered: 08/24/99
Posts: 1
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
Re: Just another spiriruality question [Re: MunkyKing]
    #358138 - 07/21/01 04:30 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

at the current moment Im agnostic I was raised catholic but I cant buy into all this blind faith stuff. I agree that there are important valuble lessons in the Bible. However nothing I have ever heard or read gives me any reason to believe in God or any other diety. At the same time there is alot of shit that without a god to cause is way to much of a coincidence. Any one who has really truly and deeply explored there religious beliefs(any religion or atheist) post or email me your reasons. The more knowledge on any subject the better you know. joshtriash@nandomail.com



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OfflineEntheonaut
"New andImproved !!
Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 39
Loc: Lost in cyberspace..
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Re: Just another spiriruality question [Re: MunkyKing]
    #358189 - 07/21/01 09:33 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

{sigh}



Entheonaut

"Life is my Religion, The World is my Church" - Entheonaut


--------------------
Entheonaut

"Life is my Religion, The World is my Church" - Entheonaut


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