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Frog
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Mixomatosis]
#3541838 - 12/25/04 09:29 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mixomatosis said: Hey Frog, the way you respond to these posts is really annoying. It's like I ask for a vitamin C, and instead of you going to the cupboard and grabbing me one, you drop to your knees and puke and then I'm left sifting through a pile of upchuck for a relevant piece of vomit, and it turns out that although the vitamin's there, it's one of those chewable ones.
So anyway, that's all very pretty information about the moon, and I accept the unlikely possibility that the moon's cycle doesn't have a powerful effect on our psyches, because we all know you can't argue with the scientific method, but if we can pull back to the original discussion I set out for, I wonder why the women's cycle and the cycle of the moon is on the same schedule excepting certain small discrepancies caused by the ebbing and flowing of whatever hormones.
I wonder about this because it's SO orderly, yet as the scientist in your post said, frog, there's no selective pressure to bring about this order which I see as key to bringing about order in any system.
For example, you have a dozen people in a room, you tell them to walk around randomly. They do. Next, you give them 2 simple rules.. turn 180 degrees if you bump someone and always follow the person to your left, or whatever. Boom, you've got a system and it will settle into some nice mostly ordered pattern. The people walk and you can see order to it.
The menstrual cycle, however, has this order, this syncopation, but it has no rules or selective pressure to bring about this order. That's pretty fucked up.
As the article I posted states, women, in general, are on a 28-day cycle. The moon is not.
Also, I have spoken with a lot of women in my lifetime. I have 4 sisters. Very few women I know have their periods on a precise 28-day cycle. And my sisters and I never seemed to be "bleeding" at the same time.
So, if you want to pretend that you can align the menstrual world by having us all sleep under the moon, fine. Just think how much easier women would be to deal with if we were all bitchy at the same time of month, every month?
I have a great idea! Get us all on the same cycle and then, at the time of month when women are bitchy, have a law that we all have to be locked up for 24 hours.
Oh, wait, some women get bitchy before, some during, and some after. Does the moon have any affect on that or is there some other hocus-pocus that puts a fix on it?
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Corporal Kielbasa
Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Mixomatosis]
#3541874 - 12/25/04 10:07 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Its do to light cycles. With the amount of unatural light being produced and the way it interferes with the mensies comes this half step and unsynchrenosity. With the artificalness of this world we creat we keep steping of the course nature provided us.
This has been writtin in literature back in the day native peoples of indigiones cultures in remote areas still fallow this cycle. Its the same way how some plants decide to flower the same way grunians bobard the shores with the full moon to have an orgy, the same way most fish use the moon phases to guide the activity. The ebbs and pulls the gravity of the moon bestowes on us is surpassed by the new technology that draws us away from our once connectedness we had.
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Corporal Kielbasa
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Frog]
#3541917 - 12/25/04 10:43 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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This is all do to the artaficial lighting. I have spoken with a women that teaches classes for women on getting back to a natural state of living. She said once removed from a city or town. and by living with natural lighting that once you get into the flow of this cycle and life style women revert back to the photoreceptive mensturation and cycling. She lived comunaly with a group in that sort of cituation and noted that it does actualy happen.
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Mixomatosis
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Frog]
#3543635 - 12/26/04 01:22 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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if you want to pretend that you can align the menstrual world by having us all sleep under the moon, fine. Just think how much easier women would be to deal with if we were all bitchy at the same time of month, every month?
That's great frog. You get a lolipop if you can quote me saying that this was my point. Quit mistaking me for the voice in your head.
Ok, so what we have learned is that the moon is on a 29 day cycle, and women are on a 28 day cycle, so my whole premise for my question is flawed. Oh no, wait, women AREN'T on a 28 day cycle, because it's unfixed and has some wobble to it. Here we are, back to square one. Women and the moon are on cycles of the same duration give or take a little bit depending on the woman. This extremely close syncing up (if it is that) with the moon has no adaptive signifigance. Ok, so again, why are these two cycles sooooo close? Is there an underlying principle I'm missing here? Where else does this appear?
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Frog
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Mixomatosis]
#3543892 - 12/26/04 09:55 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Quote:
Mixomatosis said: if you want to pretend that you can align the menstrual world by having us all sleep under the moon, fine. Just think how much easier women would be to deal with if we were all bitchy at the same time of month, every month?
Quote:
That's great frog. You get a lolipop if you can quote me saying that this was my point. Quit mistaking me for the voice in your head.
I can't quote you as saying that was your point because I don't think that was your point.
Quote:
Ok, so what we have learned is that the moon is on a 29 day cycle, and women are on a 28 day cycle, so my whole premise for my question is flawed. Oh no, wait, women AREN'T on a 28 day cycle, because it's unfixed and has some wobble to it. Here we are, back to square one. Women and the moon are on cycles of the same duration give or take a little bit depending on the woman. This extremely close syncing up (if it is that) with the moon has no adaptive signifigance. Ok, so again, why are these two cycles sooooo close? Is there an underlying principle I'm missing here? Where else does this appear?
I think that is your point, and I think you are being lazy.
Okay, off to go do your work. I know what your point is and I'll bet I find it before you do.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Corporal Kielbasa
Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Mixomatosis]
#3544139 - 12/26/04 12:33 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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The moon has been here since before us. It has influenced life since square one. It is only commonsence inmy own opinion to feel that we based our cycle with the moons cycle. Its only natural.
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incubaby_421
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
#3544156 - 12/26/04 12:44 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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its a conspiracy i tell you, contrived by the illuminati, that is how they will eventually controll us... by syncing up all of the womens menstrual cycles and rendering the men of the world helpless, useless, and yelled at for nothing.
-------------------- "yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel. i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd
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Zekebomb
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Frog]
#3546656 - 12/27/04 01:46 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Frog said:Also, I have spoken with a lot of women in my lifetime. I have 4 sisters. Very few women I know have their periods on a precise 28-day cycle. And my sisters and I never seemed to be "bleeding" at the same time.
hey, I wonder if you've ever been a woman before, and lived with other women, and noticed that your periods sync up. I'll be the first (hopefully) to admit I'm not a woman, but women I've talked to who've lived with other women (exgirlfriends included) have noticed just this phenomenon. Lots. Pheremones? could well be. point is, the menstrual cycle is a system which is influenced by outside events.
Edited by Zekebomb (12/27/04 01:55 AM)
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Zekebomb
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Frog]
#3546674 - 12/27/04 01:53 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Frog said: So, if you want to pretend that you can align the menstrual world by having us all sleep under the moon, fine. Just think how much easier women would be to deal with if we were all bitchy at the same time of month, every month? I have a great idea! Get us all on the same cycle and then, at the time of month when women are bitchy, have a law that we all have to be locked up for 24 hours.
I would make some remark about it potentially being your 'delicate time of the month' here, but I'm a man of my time, sensitive and mature. So I won't. (yes I'm aware that I just did) but remember, we're here under the pretense of having a discussion, and not reacting in knee-jerk fashion to things that rub us the wrong way for whatever reason. you copy-pasted paragraph after paragraph from a single group of scientists (one was named Rotten, if that means anything), and then you totally ignored any statements that threw this single point of view into question. lemme guess, you weren't on the high school debate team? (neither was I)
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Frog
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Zekebomb]
#3547612 - 12/27/04 10:04 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Zekebomb said:
Quote:
Frog said: So, if you want to pretend that you can align the menstrual world by having us all sleep under the moon, fine. Just think how much easier women would be to deal with if we were all bitchy at the same time of month, every month?
I have a great idea! Get us all on the same cycle and then, at the time of month when women are bitchy, have a law that we all have to be locked up for 24 hours.
I would make some remark about it potentially being your 'delicate time of the month' here, but I'm a man of my time, sensitive and mature. So I won't. (yes I'm aware that I just did)
but remember, we're here under the pretense of having a discussion, and not reacting in knee-jerk fashion to things that rub us the wrong way for whatever reason. you copy-pasted paragraph after paragraph from a single group of scientists (one was named Rotten, if that means anything), and then you totally ignored any statements that threw this single point of view into question. lemme guess, you weren't on the high school debate team? (neither was I)
I was teasing Mix. It's not that time of month. I rarely react in knee-jerk fashion. I definitely was not reacting in knee-jerk fashion here. My error was in not posting a after I made the statement about locking up bitchy women. Someone had made a previous comment somewhat related to that and I just sort of spun off of that.
I copied most of an article I found on line with which I agreed and I posted it. I had already stated my point of view, which is that I don't believe that the moon influences people, so I am not going to stick around and continue to repeat myself. However, I do come back to read the comments of others who disagree with the article and with my position. I haven't seen anything that merits debate. Unless you mean this kind, "No, it doesn't." "Yes, it does."
I've seen a few comments posted since then that directly support the opposite of statements made in that article, so I don't see the need to argue those statements. Everyone is entitled to believe what they believe. If someone wants to believe that the moon influences, who am I to tell that person he/she is wrong?
I did quite a bit of online research. Most of the sites that supported the moon's influence over us were sites that were geared toward horoscopes, women's health, feminists, new age, etc. None of those pages showed any scientific evidence that the moon is connected to women's menstrual cycles.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Frog
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Zekebomb]
#3547622 - 12/27/04 10:06 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Zekebomb said:
Quote:
Frog said:Also, I have spoken with a lot of women in my lifetime. I have 4 sisters. Very few women I know have their periods on a precise 28-day cycle. And my sisters and I never seemed to be "bleeding" at the same time.
hey, I wonder if you've ever been a woman before, and lived with other women, and noticed that your periods sync up. I'll be the first (hopefully) to admit I'm not a woman, but women I've talked to who've lived with other women (exgirlfriends included) have noticed just this phenomenon. Lots. Pheremones? could well be.
I have never had that happen to me. Like I said, I lived with 4 sisters, and none of us were ever on the same cycle.
Quote:
point is, the menstrual cycle is a system which is influenced by outside events.
What is your source for this?
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Zekebomb
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Frog]
#3552439 - 12/28/04 12:22 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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What is your source for this?
weeeell, like I said, quite a number of women I've talked to have stated, quite clearly and in English, that their periods sync up over a short period (no pun intended) of time. thus, influence by outside events.
so, am I to believe that you think the menstrual cycle is a closed system? Nah, you prolly will allow as to how food intake and sleep deprivation, etc., can affect the cycle, and we can both prolly agree that female atheletes who have less than whatever percent body fat tend to stop menstruating, because that's documented. So, can we conclude first of all that the menstrual cycle is indeed influenced by outside events?
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Zekebomb
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Zekebomb]
#3552468 - 12/28/04 12:36 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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oh, and here's an example of frog ignoring a valid point which she happens to disagree with:
Quote:
Zekebomb said: Mixomatosis: And why only humans? Why don't other animals bleed out of their vaginas in tandem with the cycles of the moon.. animals like beavers. Frog's quote: given the large number of types of mammals on our planet, one would expect that by chance some species' estrus and menstrual cycles would harmonize with lunar cycles (e.g., the lemur). I don't know what beavers and lemurs have in common, but how many animals other than humans go into heat once a month? aren't most mammals way less frequent? Like once a year in the spring, like Mix said? Anyone know? ...but I don't think species' mentrual cycles are simply determined "by chance".
like wearing blinders. the problem with copy-pasting articles from elsewhere on the internet is that your response isn't tailored to the actual discussion which is purported to be occuring. In the article you quoted, the author uses this weird tactic of saying "many people have the following misconception. here is why it's false. therefore, I'm right." plus it just isn't very relevant.
Edited by Zekebomb (12/29/04 12:39 AM)
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Frog
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Zekebomb]
#3552580 - 12/28/04 01:22 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Zekebomb said: What is your source for this?
weeeell, like I said, quite a number of women I've talked to have stated, quite clearly and in English, that their periods sync up over a short period (no pun intended) of time. thus, influence by outside events.
so, am I to believe that you think the menstrual cycle is a closed system? Nah, you prolly will allow as to how food intake and sleep deprivation, etc., can affect the cycle, and we can both prolly agree that female atheletes who have less than whatever percent body fat tend to stop menstruating, because that's documented. So, can we conclude first of all that the menstrual cycle is indeed influenced by outside events?
I don't think those are outside events. Those are internal events. I do believe that the internal workings of one's body, such as you stated, can influence one's menstrual cycle.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Frog
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Zekebomb]
#3552589 - 12/28/04 01:25 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Zekebomb said: oh, and here's an example of frog ignoring a valid point which she happens to disagree with:
Quote:
Zekebomb said: Mixomatosis: And why only humans? Why don't other animals bleed out of their vaginas in tandem with the cycles of the moon.. animals like beavers.
Frog's quote: given the large number of types of mammals on our planet, one would expect that by chance some species' estrus and menstrual cycles would harmonize with lunar cycles (e.g., the lemur).
I don't know what beavers and lemurs have in common, but how many animals other than humans go into heat once a month? aren't most mammals way less frequent? Like once a year in the spring, like Mix said? Anyone know? ...but I don't think species' mentrual cycles are simply determined "by chance".
the problem with copy-pasting articles from elsewhere on the internet is that your response isn't tailored to the actual discussion which is purported to be occuring. In the article you quoted, the author uses this weird tactic of saying "many people have to following misconception. here is why it's false. therefore, I'm right." plus it just isn't very relevant.
The author of that article is saying that there are other animals with menstrual cycles that are shorter or longer or spaced further apart or closer together than the menstrual cycle of the human. It is most likely just coincidence that the human is on a 28 day cycle, which is closest to the cycle of the moon, which is actually 29 days.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Mixomatosis
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Frog]
#3554128 - 12/28/04 07:02 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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It is only commonsence inmy own opinion to feel that we based our cycle with the moons cycle. Its only natural.
Ooooooh you bastard, that's one of those cop-out answers I asked people not to post. I think I made some threats to anybody who dared disobey me.. just lemme go check what they were so I can enact punishment on you.
Hmmm looks like I have to "butcher" you. Too bad I always make empty threats.
Frog: The synching up of women's menstrual cycle is known as menstrual entrainment. Go check it out.
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Mixomatosis
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Frog]
#3554144 - 12/28/04 07:08 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Although common usage refers to the human menstrual cycle as typically 28 days, repeated studies consistently show the mean and median of sample menstrual cycle data to be 29.5 days. The lunar cycle is also a 29.5-day cycle. This coincidence of the 29.5-day lunar and menstrual rhythms has intrigued a number of workers and led to subsequent small-and large-sample studies in search of a relationship.
this is from
http://www.athenainstitute.com/sciencelinks/lunarandmenst.html
They call it a coincidence. It's pretty fascinating, and that's why I started this post. It's pretty weird.
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Frog
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Mixomatosis]
#3554193 - 12/28/04 07:24 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mixomatosis said: It is only commonsence inmy own opinion to feel that we based our cycle with the moons cycle. Its only natural.
Ooooooh you bastard, that's one of those cop-out answers I asked people not to post. I think I made some threats to anybody who dared disobey me.. just lemme go check what they were so I can enact punishment on you.
Hmmm looks like I have to "butcher" you. Too bad I always make empty threats.
Frog: The synching up of women's menstrual cycle is known as menstrual entrainment. Go check it out.
I know you merely clicked on "last post" when you posted this recent post, but because my name headed the last post, it appears that you are responding to me, and I said no such shit as the shit that you are quoting. (<-----obligatory smiley face!)
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Frog
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Mixomatosis]
#3554225 - 12/28/04 07:34 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mixomatosis said: Although common usage refers to the human menstrual cycle as typically 28 days, repeated studies consistently show the mean and median of sample menstrual cycle data to be 29.5 days. The lunar cycle is also a 29.5-day cycle. This coincidence of the 29.5-day lunar and menstrual rhythms has intrigued a number of workers and led to subsequent small-and large-sample studies in search of a relationship.
this is from
http://www.athenainstitute.com/sciencelinks/lunarandmenst.html
They call it a coincidence. It's pretty fascinating, and that's why I started this post. It's pretty weird.
Okay, I read the article, kind of, well, mainly skimmed it, and I see there is some kind of "significant" pattern, but that was an old study, and I don't know how they conducted it, what errors there were, etc., so, in other words, I ain't buying it right at this time.
And anyways, I think that study said somewhere in there that it might have to do more with gravity than the moon.
And keep in mind that I'm not trying to be right. I have no right to be right, here. I just ain't buying it yet, I tell ya.
-------------------- The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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Mixomatosis
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Frog]
#3554309 - 12/28/04 07:56 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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????
buying WHAT? Gravity have to do with what? HUH? I'm .. never mind.
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