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OfflineMixomatosis
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The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother
    #3535391 - 12/23/04 12:41 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

It's extremely likely that your mother is a woman, and if she is, then she BLEEDS OUT OF HER VAGINA!! Or at least used to. Just a friendly reminder, but I'd like to discuss this fascinating, beautiful phenomenon.

28 days.. why? Why is the moon and the female's menstrual cycle on the same 28 day cycle? Why does a female sleeping with a window letting the moonlight in on her give her a bang-on regular cycle? It makes sense if you're a female animal of some kind and you go in heat once a year, like the spring, because that has all kinds of adaptive value. The 28 day cycle is no more beneficial in the process of natural selection than a 29, 32 or 26 day cycle, it's totally arbitrary! And why only humans? Why don't other animals bleed out of their vaginas in tandem with the cycles of the moon.. animals like beavers. Beavers and pussies.

What's the mechanism, the underlying principle that organizes this? Where else in nature is it manifested?

Warning: I will compassionately butcher anyone who answers with a cop-out.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3535409 - 12/23/04 12:48 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

amour in paris under the moon


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Offlineincubaby_421
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3535584 - 12/23/04 01:29 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

maybe the gravitational pull of the moon makes period blood come out, much like the ebin flow of the oceans


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
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OfflineWhiteRussian
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Registered: 06/23/04
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: incubaby_421]
    #3535732 - 12/23/04 02:00 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

why do birds fly south for the winter? same shit, i guess


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OfflineFrog
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: WhiteRussian]
    #3535757 - 12/23/04 02:07 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

All I ever had to do to be on a regular 28-day cycle is stand in the moon???

:tongue:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleCosm
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3536187 - 12/23/04 04:16 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I'm not sure but i do know the kelts and other cultures used a 13 month calender having 28 days in each month.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Cosm]
    #3536909 - 12/23/04 08:16 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

The reason the calendar was changed to varying day months was to prevent women from all menstruating at the same time of the month as they would with a 28 day month calendar. Can you imagine having every fourth weekend with every women PMSing at the SAME time? Or the fourth Monday of every month? There would be bloodshed in the streets...


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Edited by LunarEclipse (12/23/04 08:20 PM)


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #3538019 - 12/24/04 02:58 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
The reason the calendar was changed to varying day months was to prevent women from all menstruating at the same time of the month as they would with a 28 day month calendar. Can you imagine having every fourth weekend with every women PMSing at the SAME time? Or the fourth Monday of every month? There would be bloodshed in the streets...




that's not right.

what's to stop women from all being synced up anyways, regardless of what number day it is that month?

by the way, when you live with +1 women, you learn this arcane knowledge: women who live together tend to sync up their menstruation cycles.


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3538025 - 12/24/04 03:01 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

...yeah what is to stop them? and a damn good thing it is, they are stopped. I guess


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Invisibleuriahchase
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3539379 - 12/24/04 03:01 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

biology 101? no women has such a regular cycle...maybe sometimes or most the time, but the moon has nothing to do with it im sure.


--------------------
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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: uriahchase]
    #3539688 - 12/24/04 05:19 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Except that exposure to the moon while sleeping will regulate the menstrual cycle into a wam-bam syncro well timed excellenso predictable cycle. Read better next time.

So nobody has any input on why the moon and the women's menstrual cycle are both 28 days? Is there a hormonal trigger the moon sets off? Anybody know?


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OfflinePali_Gap
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3539776 - 12/24/04 05:55 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Lunacy?


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OfflineFrog
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3540265 - 12/24/04 09:12 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

This skeptic does not think there is any correlation between the moon and menstrual cycles (and neither do I :grin: ):

"However, the light of the moon is a very minor source of light in most women's lives, and is no more likely than the moon's gravitational force to have a significant effect on a woman's ovulation. Furthermore, the average menstrual cycle is 28 days but varies from woman to woman and month to month, while the length of the lunar month is a consistent 29.53 days.* Some of us have noticed that these cycles are not identical. Furthermore, it would seem odd that natural selection would favor a method of reproduction for a species like ours that depended on the weather. Clouds are bound to be irregularly and frequently blocking moonlight, which would seem to hinder rather than enhance our species' chance for survival.

"Some mythmakers believe that long ago women all bled in sync with the moon, but civilization and indoor electric lighting (or even the discovery of fire by primitive humans) have disturbed their rhythmic cycle. This theory may seem plausible until one remembers that there are quite a few other mammals on the planet that have not been affected by firelight or civilization's indoor lighting and whose cycles aren't in harmony with the moon. In short, given the large number of types of mammals on our planet, one would expect that by chance some species' estrus and menstrual cycles would harmonize with lunar cycles (e.g., the lemur). It is doubtful that there is anything of metaphysical significance in this.

"What we do know is that there has been very little research on hormonal or neurochemical changes during lunar phases. James Rotton's search of the literature "failed to uncover any studies linking lunar cycles to substances that have been implicated as possible correlates of stress and aggression (e.g., serotonin, melatonin, epinephrine, norepinephrine, testosterone, cortisol, vasopressin [directly relevant to fluid content], growth hormone, pH, 17-OHCS, adrenocrotropic hormone [? adrenocorticotropic hormone?])" (Rotton 1997). One would think that this area would be well-studied, since hormones and neurochemicals are known to affect menstruation and behavior.

"misconceptions

"Misconceptions about such things as the moon's effect on tides have contributed to lunar mythology. Many people seem to think that since the moon affects the ocean's tides, it must be so powerful that it affects the human body as well. The lunar force is actually a very weak tidal force. A mother holding her child "will exert 12 million times as much tidal force on her child as the moon" (Kelly et al., 1996: 25). Astronomer George O. Abell claims that a mosquito would exert more gravitational pull on your arm than the moon would (Abell 1979). Despite these physical facts, there is still widespread belief that the moon can cause earthquakes.* It doesn't; nor does the sun, which exerts much less tidal force on the earth than the moon.

"The fact that the human body is mostly water largely contributes to the notion that the moon should have a powerful effect on the human body and therefore an effect on behavior. It is claimed by many that the earth and the human body both are 80% water. This is false. Eighty percent of the surface of the earth is water. Furthermore, the moon only affects unbounded bodies of water, while the water in the human body is bounded."


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Frog]
    #3540512 - 12/24/04 10:47 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

yeah, but

it's documented that people act way crazier when the moon is full. They put more guards on shift in prisons, hospital emergency rooms see way more traffic, etc. This occurs even when clouds are covering the moon from view!! it occurs every full moon, and a couple days on either side. animals (even lemurs) also act weird, and it's well known that some people turn into werewolves and run amok.

by the way, I went to my power spot and received a vision, which told me that, instead of the moon controlling womens' menstrual cycles, womens' menstrual cycles control the phases of the moon! Hard to believe I know, but I did receive this information in a vision.


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3540552 - 12/24/04 11:02 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Mixomatosis:
And why only humans? Why don't other animals bleed out of their vaginas in tandem with the cycles of the moon.. animals like beavers.

Frog's quote:
given the large number of types of mammals on our planet, one would expect that by chance some species' estrus and menstrual cycles would harmonize with lunar cycles (e.g., the lemur).

I don't know what beavers and lemurs have in common, but how many animals other than humans go into heat once a month? aren't most mammals way less frequent? Like once a year in the spring, like Mix said? Anyone know? ...but I don't think species' mentrual cycles are simply determined "by chance".

also, I would note that it's pretty obvious science has nothing to say regarding the moon having any effect on people's emotional states or physiological processes. By which I mean the phenomenon is unquantifiable, which means it's useless to use the scientific method as a lens through which to view it. This doesn't make it false. Absence of proof is not proof of absence. However, there's data: I have two doctor aunts who worked in emergency rooms for years, and both agree that traffic increased significantly during the full moon, and people would come in with way stranger injuries, and so forth. but what to do with the data?

the only thing I can think of is to use it to point out the fact that when that side of the moon which is fully lit up by the sun is aimed more or less straight at the Earth, people are affected in a variety of ways. maybe the reason human females are synced to the moon's phases is because humans are 'higher' than other animals, therefore more receptive to things that take place on 'higher' planes. such as weird psychic energy disruptions emanating from the moon, which has been in orbit around the Earth since before our ancestors crawled out of the oceans.


Edited by Zekebomb (12/24/04 11:08 PM)


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OfflineFrog
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3541156 - 12/25/04 02:03 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

From the same article that I quoted and cited above:

Ivan Kelly, James Rotton and Roger Culver (1996) examined over 100 studies on lunar effects and concluded that the studies have failed to show a reliable and significant correlation (i.e., one not likely due to chance) between the full moon, or any other phase of the moon, and each of the following:


-the homicide rate
-traffic accidents
-crisis calls to police or fire stations
-domestic violence
-births of babies
-suicide
-major disasters
-casino payout rates
-assassinations
-kidnappings
-aggression by professional hockey players
-violence in prisons
-psychiatric admissions [one study found admissions were lowest during a full moon]
-agitated behavior by nursing home residents
-assaults
-gunshot wounds
-stabbings
-emergency room admissions [but see]
-behavioral outbursts of psychologically challenged rural adults
-lycanthropy
-vampirism
-alcoholism
-sleep walking
-epilepsy

If so many studies have failed to prove a significant correlation between the full moon and anything, why do so many people believe in these lunar myths? Kelly, Rotton, and Culver suspect four factors: media effects, folklore and tradition, misconceptions, and cognitive biases. A fifth factor should be considered, as well: communal reinforcement.

the media perpetuates lunar myths

Lunar myths are frequently presented in films and works of fiction. "With the constant media repetition of an association between the full moon and human behavior it is not surprising that such beliefs are widespread in the general public" (Kelly et al. 1996). Reporters also "favor those who claim that the full moon influences behavior." It wouldn't be much of a story if the moon was full and nothing happened, they note. Anecdotal evidence for lunar effects is not hard to find and reporters know that one good anecdote trumps ten scientific studies when it comes to reader interest, even though such evidence is unreliable for establishing significant correlations. Relying on personal experience ignores the possibility of self-deception and confirmation bias. Such evidence may be unreliable, but it is nonetheless persuasive.

folklore and tradition

Many lunar myths are rooted in folklore. For example, an ancient Assyrian/Babylonian fragment stated that "A woman is fertile according to the moon." Such notions have been turned into widespread misconceptions about fertility and birthrates. For example, Eugen Jonas, a Slovakian psychiatrist, was inspired by this bit of folklore to create a method of birth control and fertility largely rooted in astrological superstitions. The belief that there are more births during a full moon persists today among many educated people. Scientific studies, however, have failed to find any significant correlation between the full moon and number of births (Kelly and Martens 1994; Martens et al.1988 ). In 1991, Benski and Gerin reported that they had analyzed birthdays of 4,256 babies born in a clinic in France and "found them equally distributed throughout the synodic (phase) lunar cycle" (Kelly, et al. 1996: 19). In 1994, Italian researchers Periti and Biagiotti reported on their study of 7,842 spontaneous deliveries over a 5-year period at a clinic in Florence. They found "no relationship between moon phase and number of spontaneous deliveries" (ibid.).


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Frog]
    #3541429 - 12/25/04 04:22 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

The belief that there are more births during a full moon persists today among many educated people. Scientific studies, however, have failed to find any significant correlation ...

not claiming to be educated, but I don't and never did believe that. so disproving it doesn't affect me or my aunts' tales. The doctors heave vast sighs of relief once the full moon is over, and things in the emergency ward get back to "normal".

I wondered about:
-emergency room admissions [but see]

yeah, and I ain't no scientific study either, but I notice I get flightier more forgetful and moodier and ...sort of retardeder when it's a full moon, even though I generally don't keep track of what phase things are at and am usually suprised by the moon being full. there's your self-deception, should you choose to seek it, but even if this whole fraudulent correlation between moon phase and emotional state is a universal placebo effect... well, then it's still a powerful effect. once you know something's a placebo, are you required to treat it very differently?

but anyways, Rotten et al are only one group of guys, and I don't have scientific studies at my copy-pastin' fingertips as you seem to, aaand I'm tired. one more thing though:

Many lunar myths are rooted in folklore. For example, an ancient Assyrian/Babylonian fragment stated that "A woman is fertile according to the moon." Such notions have been turned into widespread misconceptions about fertility and birthrates. For example, Eugen Jonas, a Slovakian psychiatrist, was inspired by this bit of folklore to create a method of birth control and fertility largely rooted in astrological superstitions.

ahh yes. Many of these things which I assume to be myths are rooted in folklore. For example, people who have been dead for thousands of years once said something about it. (God knows where they received this idea from.) Such notions have been turned into what I assume to be misconceptions in a widespread fashion. For example, some guy, a psychiatrist from some country, was inspired by this notion (which is based on a misconception, or so I assume) to create a method of birth control largely rooted in some other stuff which I don't think much of.

the assumption is that the Assyrians/Babylonians had no basis for their idea about lunar fertility, and just dreamed it up out of nothing. I guess people who've been dead for thousands of years were really dumb, or something.


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3541432 - 12/25/04 04:24 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Why does a female sleeping with a window letting the moonlight in on her give her a bang-on regular cycle?

mix said that. where'd you come by that, mix?


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Frog] * 1
    #3541445 - 12/25/04 04:37 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Hey Frog, the way you respond to these posts is really annoying. It's like I ask for a vitamin C, and instead of you going to the cupboard and grabbing me one, you drop to your knees and puke and then I'm left sifting through a pile of upchuck for a relevant piece of vomit, and it turns out that although the vitamin's there, it's one of those chewable ones.

So anyway, that's all very pretty information about the moon, and I accept the unlikely possibility that the moon's cycle doesn't have a powerful effect on our psyches, because we all know you can't argue with the scientific method, but if we can pull back to the original discussion I set out for, I wonder why the women's cycle and the cycle of the moon is on the same schedule excepting certain small discrepancies caused by the ebbing and flowing of whatever hormones.

I wonder about this because it's SO orderly, yet as the scientist in your post said, frog, there's no selective pressure to bring about this order which I see as key to bringing about order in any system.

For example, you have a dozen people in a room, you tell them to walk around randomly. They do. Next, you give them 2 simple rules.. turn 180 degrees if you bump someone and always follow the person to your left, or whatever. Boom, you've got a system and it will settle into some nice mostly ordered pattern. The people walk and you can see order to it.

The menstrual cycle, however, has this order, this syncopation, but it has no rules or selective pressure to bring about this order. That's pretty fucked up.


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Registered: 10/28/03
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Re: The moon, the menstrual cycle, and your mother [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3541449 - 12/25/04 04:42 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

mix said that. where'd you come by that, mix?

Hmmmmm.. well, maybe it was a young hippy chick from montreal who's big on things like energy and crystals.. you know, the well-informed kind of source

*For the first time ever, Mixomatosis swallows hard and wipes the cold sweat from his brow


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