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Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? * 1
    #3531934 -

Hello this is a wonderful board you've got here. I would consider myself a newbie, I've been studying this stuff off and on for several years. I made one attempt about a year and half ago using the PF Tek method and failed. My jars never showed any growth and became infected after several weeks. I suspect I did not sterilize the jars well. If I remember correctly my pressure cooker only went to 10psi and the jars could not fit in on top of the rack so I had to set them straight on the pan and even then I think the lids touched the top and prevented it from closing completely, thus causing pressure loss.

I am back at it again though and have read sooo much that my head is almost spinning. I apologize in advance if I end up going into some things that have been covered before, but any suggestions or guidance are very appreciated.

I've odered my spores from a reputable source. I'll receive 2 10cc syringes, said to be filled to 12cc. Tried and true strong strain, nothing exotic or finicky.

I've also ordered 3 pre-sterilzed substrate grow bags. These bags are 4 pounds each. I've opted to mix'n'match mediums. One rye/millet bag, one bird seed and the third pre-pastuerized straw/manure. Any input or predictions on my choices here? From what I've gathered these sound to me like good choices, unless I've overlooked something (which I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.)

I will also be receiving a standard sterilzed and pre-wetted vermiculite/calcium casing mix (not sure of the quanitity).

I am not sure of the amount of spore solution to inject into the bags. They are 4 pounds each and I'll have two 12cc syringes. I've done a fair amount of research and conversions and my current thought is that maybe I'll just pump each bag with 8cc. Any guidance here would be very appreciated!

I'll let the bags set in lysoled styrofoam container with a heated jar of water keeping the temp around 86F as best I can.

Then I'll probably try to case one, let the other grow in the bag, and figure out something to do with the third (assuming that they're all viable). I haven't planned much on what to do with the fruiting bags, I'll be researching that more in the coming weeks. I know of the main options, I just need to read some more and make a decision.

Thank you all very much, now I'm off to do some more research...

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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: ChrisHippyLoser] * 1
    #3531967 -

i dont know shit about grow bags bu tthis just seems crazy to me, 4 lbs. i think you need to succeed with the pf tek before trying more stuff.


--------------------
In the belly of the Leviathan, one can either despair and perish, or be cheerful and persevere.-Dean Koontz

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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: lemon_lw] * 1
    #3532020 -

You are much more likely to lose it to contaminants. You would be a lot better off making it into a few smaller amounts. That way you have better odds. Better to end up w/a couple of smaller batches than lose it all on one big bag of contams! Ya herd?


--------------------
MAY YOU BE NURTURED BY THE FRUITS OF YOUR LABOR.

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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: mikl] * 1
    #3532055 -

hey welcome to the boards! it might be better if you go to the simple minded pf tek. trust me my friend.


--------------------
Please Enjoy Responsibly

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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: Heineken] * 1
    #3532138 -

Claw before you walk.Just my $0.02


--------------------
Child of the 60's, Tripping ever since.


:sun:

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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: Heineken] * 1
    #3532149 -

Nah man, If you're sterile enough, I say do it.

Don't listen to these fogies :P

Yeah, do it.  It's against the un-written rules of the Shroomery Forums to tell a n00b to go big his first time, but it is definately highly possible, IMO that you'll succeed.  You just have to make sure that nothing gets into the bag alive, besides the spores.  And we're talkin on microscopic scale.  Get some Lysol wet wipes or something similar (anti bacterial) and hand sanatizer (kills 99.9% of germs, and I actually tested it way back in 10th grade on agar dishes in biology class) 

I just did 8 PF jars my very first time in a dirty, dusty bedroom.  None were contaminated.  When ready to inoculate, I use Lysol Anti-bacterial wet wipes to sterilize the tinfoil and needle, and then I lay it over the tin foil/Filter patch/wherever you plan to inoculate. I re-disinfect the needle with 99.9% germ-free hand sanitizer, and then inoculate the jar in 4 places through the wet wipes.

If I got 8 out of 8 my first time, I bet you could get 3 out of 3.

Do us all a favor and make a grow log, if you have a digital camera, that is.  Check out the grow log forum, it's really easy, I made one :wink:  I'd love to see how your bags turn out, and which one is more efficient.


--------------------
:cussing::whip:

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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: Heineken] * 1
    #3532187 -

Ok...I understand where you guys are coming from. So here's my revised plan...

I figure one four pound bag is equivalent to roughly 10 quarts or 20 pints, giving me forty 1/2 pint jars. (a lot more than my initial guesstimate)

I've got the two syringes on their way and I don't plan on purchasing more until I've used these. I'm not interested in trying to use the karo tek just yet, need more experience.

I'll just shoot one bag with one syringe and I'll make up PF tek jars and use the other syringe on those. Now take a look at the math here... If one bag = 40 half pint jars then using a single syringe on the bag may be like using 1/4cc on a single half pint jar. Any input here? I am afraid that just won't cut it.

I was attracted to the presterilzed bags because it helps to cut out error on my part. I'm starting to think I need to quit being lazy and just retry the pf tek. Which may mean I need a new pressure cooker, mine only handles 10psi. I've read that it can work if I cook it for 1-1/2 hours. Any advice on using this?

I am eager to hear any and all input on everything I've mentioned. Thanks much!

Edited by ChrisHippyLoser (12/22/04 04:07 PM)

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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: ChrisHippyLoser] * 1
    #3533565 -

Purchasing more when you used those up? Are you talking about purchasing a different strain? If not then you should just do spore prints and make your own syringe.


--------------------
CIVIC IS Mycoshack!! Be careful trading with him!!
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showthreaded.php/Cat/0/Number/5686915/page/0/vc/1

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Re: delete [Re: ChrisHippyLoser] * 1
    #3533654 -

jj

Edited by CrabbyAss (06/29/21 09:36 PM)

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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: CrabbyAss] * 1
    #3533681 -

But wouldn't fluid ounces be a measure of volume and not weight?

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Re: delete [Re: Shroomsbrrr] * 1
    #3533758 -

11

Edited by CrabbyAss (06/29/21 09:30 PM)

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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: ChrisHippyLoser] * 1
    #3533902 -

"Tried and true strong strain, nothing exotic or finicky"

This is our first point of interest. Different strains grow on different substrates. Assuming that you picked some easy growing grain loving cubies, then your three different substrate bags will provide and excellent learning experience. You can now see which substrate is optimal for that strain under those conditions.

"I've also ordered 3 pre-sterilized substrate grow bags. These bags are 4 pounds each. I've opted to mix'n'match mediums. One rye/millet bag, one bird seed and the third pre-pasteurized straw/manure. Any input or predictions on my choices here? "

Leads back to the strains...but your cubies will probably grow on all three of the mentioned substrates. If you post your strains, people could give you a more definite opinion on your substrate choices.

"I will also be receiving a standard sterilized and pre-wetted vermiculite/calcium casing mix (not sure of the quantity)."

Sounds like fun. I wait like a puppy for the mailman every day.

"I am not sure of the amount of spore solution to inject into the bags. They are 4 pounds each and I'll have two 12cc syringes. I've done a fair amount of research and conversions and my current thought is that maybe I'll just pump each bag with 8cc."

YOW! Woah there tiger. You need to approach it from a different angle. The more the merrier to be sure...but drink 40 gallons of water and you are going to be bloated for a week! Think of your pre-sterilized and sealed bags as empty space with nutrients. Inject enough spores to germinate, and they will feed off those nutrients. The idea is that they don't have any competition, so you don't to flood the bag. A well shaken syringe and a properly placed cc or two will get you all the same molds that 8cc will, with 1/8th less the mess.

"I'll let the bags set in lysoled styrofoam container with a heated jar of water keeping the temp around 86F as best I can."

Good good. The cleaner the better!

Then I'll probably try to case one, let the other grow in the bag, and figure out something to do with the third (assuming that they're all viable). I haven't planned much on what to do with the fruiting bags, I'll be researching that more in the coming weeks. I know of the main options, I just need to read some more and make a decision.

Well, if you case one and bag the other two, you won't be able to determine which substrate was most beneficial, as casing results to different flushes. Casing at this stage in the game is decent gamble for you. You are going from that nice warm "pre-sterilized playpen" environment to "okay...how do I make this room safe for the little ones?". It's not the biggest step in the world, but this is where people are recommending you start small. It's much easier to learn "the hard way" on a small scale in small containers than "with all your eggs in one basket".

And of course, keep in mind;

There is only one thing that takes longer than myc to colonize your substrate. Myc colonizing your substrate for the first time. Hours...they just seem like days!

Hope that helps!


--------------------
ADoobie said:
I know what strikes me as odd about this. It is totally unnatural. The whole idea is just totally backwards.

So are historians going to look back at 'The Great Cake Eaters'? Damn. That was a backwards step in the evolutionary process. We left Shroomheads in the dust. Welcome to the new age of Vermheads.

VvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVv

I ONLY STUDY legal, edible mushrooms and mycology. Any mention of any other kind of mushroom is purely fictional, and pictures are ripped from the internet. I do not grow mushrooms!

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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: ADoobie] * 1
    #3534120 -

4lb's is probably more like 4 quarts..8 pints..16 half pints.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay

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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: ADoobie] * 1
    #3534222 -

ADoobie said:
"Tried and true strong strain, nothing exotic or finicky"

This is our first point of interest. Different strains grow on different substrates. Assuming that you picked some easy growing grain loving cubies, then your three different substrate bags will provide and excellent learning experience. You can now see which substrate is optimal for that strain under those conditions.



Care to back that up with some proof?

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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: IfIWereARichMan] * 1
    #3534294 -

Thanks guys...its fuckin cool to see some feedback on this stuff! My girlfriend's dad told me that santa's getting her a digital camera for christmas, so you fellas can expect to see a log of this experiment. I've also got some BRF & verm jars in the pc right now too. I'll do up 12 jars and 1 or 2 bags. I'm gonna have to work the math and figure a good conversion. I'll try to remember to post whatever I come up with. Although that 10 to 12 half pints sounds more on the mark than my original 40 (I knew that shit had to be wrong)

Edited by ChrisHippyLoser (12/23/04 12:09 AM)

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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: IfIWereARichMan] * 1
    #3535656 -

IfIWereARichMan said:
ADoobie said:
"Tried and true strong strain, nothing exotic or finicky"

This is our first point of interest. Different strains grow on different substrates. Assuming that you picked some easy growing grain loving cubies, then your three different substrate bags will provide and excellent learning experience. You can now see which substrate is optimal for that strain under those conditions.



Care to back that up with some proof?


Ummm. Care to prove me wrong? Unless I am mistaken, all I said was that you could knock up all three bags and watch their progess, then decide for yourself which ones weren't a good idea. Considering he didn't tell us the strain, why don't you explain to me how you want me to back up ANYTHING, without a definite starting point.

Honestly, did your post have a point? If so please do us the favor and write it out.

Here, let me quote myself again for you.

"...provide and excellent learning experience"

Hmm. Sounds like all I am saying there is that you are about to learn something, not get pounds of yield.

Ass.


--------------------
ADoobie said:
I know what strikes me as odd about this. It is totally unnatural. The whole idea is just totally backwards.

So are historians going to look back at 'The Great Cake Eaters'? Damn. That was a backwards step in the evolutionary process. We left Shroomheads in the dust. Welcome to the new age of Vermheads.

VvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVv

I ONLY STUDY legal, edible mushrooms and mycology. Any mention of any other kind of mushroom is purely fictional, and pictures are ripped from the internet. I do not grow mushrooms!

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Re: delete [Re: scatmanrav] * 1
    #3535748 -

ff

Edited by CrabbyAss (06/29/21 09:30 PM)

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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: CrabbyAss] * 1
    #3535770 -

wow.... trying to get this straigthened out is like trying to read an analog clock on a really intense trip...shouldn't be all that tough, but for whatever reason it is...

how about we wait until i've got the bags and then i'll try to figure it out with one setting in from of me...

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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: CrabbyAss] * 1
    #3545480 -

Quote:
CrabbyAss said:
Quote:
scatmanrav said:
4lb's is probably more like 4 quarts..8 pints..16 half pints.



if that were true, the substrate would have to weigh 1/2 what water weighs. (highly unlikely)

8 oz (in a half pint) times 16 (Amount of half pints you quoted) will give you a weight of 128 ounces. 128 ounces is 8 lbs.



Highly unlikly all you want, I can assure you that when I make a 1/2 pint of grain it weighs about 4 ounces (usually less, 100-120 grams).

Besides I've actually made 4 lb bags of grain and I know how big they are...not 8 quarts or 2 quarts...more like 4. Theories don't always add up when applied to the real world.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay

Edited by scatmanrav (12/26/04 07:56 PM)

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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: scatmanrav] * 1
    #3546343 -

ok...so supposing that 4lbs of substrate is rougly four quarts then i could probably get away with using 4cc of solution?

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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: ChrisHippyLoser]
    #3546472 -

It doesnt matter how much grain is in the bag you can still use 1cc of spores...1cc of spores will germinate just as quickly as 4 cc's, though not in as many spots..of course once it does and the mycelium is spreading you can shake/mash (carfully) the bag to spread it around..the difference between 1cc and 3, 4, 6, 10, 20cc's whatever would only be about 2-3 days...well the 20cc's would probably throw off water content and be the slowest....anyways...

You can use 4 if you want..1 will work though. You could use up to 10 but over that and I'd be afraid of throwing off the water content to much. If it were me...I'd use 2cc of liquid myc.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay

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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: ChrisHippyLoser]
    #22633480 -

I'm pretty new at this to, but I think everyone is getting sidetracked on how big the bags are. I think it's gonna be a grand learning experience for you. Success is reaching a goal. Your goal is to learn. You can only fail if you stop trying!

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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: Thea]
    #23300676 -

Quote:
half pint is 8 fluid ounces.

4 lbs is 64 ounces
8 goes into 64 8 times.

4 lbs is 8 half pints from my calculations

correct me if im wrong


I know that this is a super old thread to bump, but I just cannot sit by and look at the ridiculous arguments in this thread, and go on leaving it as it is without any definitive statement one way or the other regarding units of volume vs units of mass.

3 x 4lb bags filled with 3 different substrates has got nothing to do with how many 1/2 pint or quart jars could be filled with any of the substrates.

1/2 pint and quart jars are measures of volume in liquid ounces.

Each of the 3 subs will have a different density (mass to volume ratio).  Therefore each of the subs will fill a different number of jars (of any size) when divided.

Since the subs are made up of fibers and other things which are not liquid, not to mention things like air gaps between grains of different sizes, etc., they cannot be volumetrically measured with any accuracy without first knowing the specific density of each substrate.

To find this out you would need to first fill a known volume (let's say a pint aka 16 fluid ounces) and then weigh it to find the mass (remembering to subtract the mass of the container itself), then divide by the total number of units of measure in volume to get the density in (example) grams per fluid ounce.

So, for water, 16 fl oz will completely fill a pint.  The mass (not counting the pint container) will be roughly 473.2 grams.  We divide 473.2 by 16 to get the density, which is about 29.6g/fl oz. 

From this density we can find the weight (mass) of any known volume of area simply by multiplying the volume in fl oz by 29.6 to find the mass in grams.

Alternately we can find the volume of a known weight by dividing that weight by 29.6 to find the volume in fl oz.

It should be obvious that since substrates are not pure liquids, and will have some air between the particles if nothing else, then most likely a pint of substrate is not equal to 473.2g.  Probably it will weigh substantially less than this due to a variety of factors.

So, to try and figure out a number of smaller volumes which is equivalent to any of the the substrates based solely upon its weight is impossible.  It's even more impossible to assume that the densities of three completely different kinds and shapes of substrates will fill an equal volume of smaller volumes equally.

Again sorry for the bump, but I hope that everyone reads and understands this. 

This is very basic science. 

Fluid ounces are a measure of volume only.  For water it is also a measure of mass (weight).  Unless whatever is being measured has the exact same density as water then 1fl oz (volume) does not equal 1oz (mass, as in 1/16th pound).

The same applies to liters or ml.  It is a unit of volume.  For water 1 ml = 1 gram.  For anything which is not water 1ml does not = 1 gram (unless the item being measured has the exact same density as water).

Of course atmospheric pressure can have a large impact on some materials, but that is a whole different argument and I think it's pretty safe to say that people are generally on the earth in about 1 standard unit of atmospheric pressure when measuring substrates.

Not two miles under the sea, and not on the space station.  You are reading this on the earth, damnit!  LOL!

:ohyeah:


--------------------
:goat: :pills: :pill: :discorex: :meff:


*New*  Trade/wish list

Edited by OldSawbonesHisself (06/02/16 05:14 PM)

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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: OldSawbonesHisself]
    #23300697 -

Dude, this thread is old AF... about 12 years. OP hasn't been seen in nearly 11...

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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: dankington]
    #23300714 -

Yes, but someone else already bumped it in December.

I found it in a search and I just wanted to be sure that anyone else who might find it in the search would understand the difference between mass and volume.  Even if they're super high I think now they might get the difference.

Before it was never concluded and left open to interpretation.

Now it should be pretty clear to anyone with doubts what the difference is.


--------------------
:goat: :pills: :pill: :discorex: :meff:


*New*  Trade/wish list

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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: OldSawbonesHisself]
    #23300788 -

Also, just in case someone brings this up, 1 ml of water = 1 cc of water = 1 gram of water

This does not mean 1 cc from a spore syringe equals 1 gram of spores!

There could be 1 spore in 1 cc of water or many thousands of spores in 1 cc of water.  Spores are microscopic (not visible to the naked eye).

Yes, I realize that most of you are saying "duh, that's common logic!"  Well if this thread proves anything it's that some people are too common for common logic.  LOL.

Ok, that's a bit harsh.  I just don't want some jackass pointing back at this thread and going, "See I really did put in a gram of spores!  'says so right here:"  (link to my post above).

:grin:


--------------------
:goat: :pills: :pill: :discorex: :meff:


*New*  Trade/wish list

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