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OfflineChrisHippyLoser
Dope Smoker

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 120
Loc: Big Tex
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag?
    #3531934 - 12/22/04 03:29 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Hello this is a wonderful board you've got here. I would consider myself a newbie, I've been studying this stuff off and on for several years. I made one attempt about a year and half ago using the PF Tek method and failed. My jars never showed any growth and became infected after several weeks. I suspect I did not sterilize the jars well. If I remember correctly my pressure cooker only went to 10psi and the jars could not fit in on top of the rack so I had to set them straight on the pan and even then I think the lids touched the top and prevented it from closing completely, thus causing pressure loss.

I am back at it again though and have read sooo much that my head is almost spinning. I apologize in advance if I end up going into some things that have been covered before, but any suggestions or guidance are very appreciated.

I've odered my spores from a reputable source. I'll receive 2 10cc syringes, said to be filled to 12cc. Tried and true strong strain, nothing exotic or finicky.

I've also ordered 3 pre-sterilzed substrate grow bags. These bags are 4 pounds each. I've opted to mix'n'match mediums. One rye/millet bag, one bird seed and the third pre-pastuerized straw/manure. Any input or predictions on my choices here? From what I've gathered these sound to me like good choices, unless I've overlooked something (which I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.)

I will also be receiving a standard sterilzed and pre-wetted vermiculite/calcium casing mix (not sure of the quanitity).

I am not sure of the amount of spore solution to inject into the bags. They are 4 pounds each and I'll have two 12cc syringes. I've done a fair amount of research and conversions and my current thought is that maybe I'll just pump each bag with 8cc. Any guidance here would be very appreciated!

I'll let the bags set in lysoled styrofoam container with a heated jar of water keeping the temp around 86F as best I can.

Then I'll probably try to case one, let the other grow in the bag, and figure out something to do with the third (assuming that they're all viable). I haven't planned much on what to do with the fruiting bags, I'll be researching that more in the coming weeks. I know of the main options, I just need to read some more and make a decision.

Thank you all very much, now I'm off to do some more research...


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Offlinelemon_lw
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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: ChrisHippyLoser]
    #3531967 - 12/22/04 03:38 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

i dont know shit about grow bags bu tthis just seems crazy to me, 4 lbs. i think you need to succeed with the pf tek before trying more stuff.


--------------------
In the belly of the Leviathan, one can either despair and perish, or be cheerful and persevere.-Dean Koontz


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Offlinemikl
I am perception
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Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 1,054
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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: lemon_lw]
    #3532020 - 12/22/04 03:51 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

You are much more likely to lose it to contaminants. You would be a lot better off making it into a few smaller amounts. That way you have better odds. Better to end up w/a couple of smaller batches than lose it all on one big bag of contams! Ya herd?


--------------------
MAY YOU BE NURTURED BY THE FRUITS OF YOUR LABOR.


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InvisibleHeineken
Imported From Holland

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 151
Loc: Holland, duh?
Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: mikl]
    #3532055 - 12/22/04 04:06 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

hey welcome to the boards! it might be better if you go to the simple minded pf tek. trust me my friend.


--------------------
Please Enjoy Responsibly


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OfflineKaptKid
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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: Heineken]
    #3532138 - 12/22/04 04:31 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Claw before you walk.Just my $0.02


--------------------
Child of the 60's, Tripping ever since.


:sun:


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OfflineMycoJunkie
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Registered: 11/04/04
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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: Heineken]
    #3532149 - 12/22/04 04:33 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Nah man, If you're sterile enough, I say do it.

Don't listen to these fogies :P

Yeah, do it.  It's against the un-written rules of the Shroomery Forums to tell a n00b to go big his first time, but it is definately highly possible, IMO that you'll succeed.  You just have to make sure that nothing gets into the bag alive, besides the spores.  And we're talkin on microscopic scale.  Get some Lysol wet wipes or something similar (anti bacterial) and hand sanatizer (kills 99.9% of germs, and I actually tested it way back in 10th grade on agar dishes in biology class) 

I just did 8 PF jars my very first time in a dirty, dusty bedroom.  None were contaminated.  When ready to inoculate, I use Lysol Anti-bacterial wet wipes to sterilize the tinfoil and needle, and then I lay it over the tin foil/Filter patch/wherever you plan to inoculate. I re-disinfect the needle with 99.9% germ-free hand sanitizer, and then inoculate the jar in 4 places through the wet wipes.

If I got 8 out of 8 my first time, I bet you could get 3 out of 3.

Do us all a favor and make a grow log, if you have a digital camera, that is.  Check out the grow log forum, it's really easy, I made one :wink:  I'd love to see how your bags turn out, and which one is more efficient.


--------------------
:cussing::whip:


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OfflineChrisHippyLoser
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Registered: 12/22/04
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Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: Heineken]
    #3532187 - 12/22/04 04:45 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Ok...I understand where you guys are coming from. So here's my revised plan...

I figure one four pound bag is equivalent to roughly 10 quarts or 20 pints, giving me forty 1/2 pint jars. (a lot more than my initial guesstimate)

I've got the two syringes on their way and I don't plan on purchasing more until I've used these. I'm not interested in trying to use the karo tek just yet, need more experience.

I'll just shoot one bag with one syringe and I'll make up PF tek jars and use the other syringe on those. Now take a look at the math here... If one bag = 40 half pint jars then using a single syringe on the bag may be like using 1/4cc on a single half pint jar. Any input here? I am afraid that just won't cut it.

I was attracted to the presterilzed bags because it helps to cut out error on my part. I'm starting to think I need to quit being lazy and just retry the pf tek. Which may mean I need a new pressure cooker, mine only handles 10psi. I've read that it can work if I cook it for 1-1/2 hours. Any advice on using this?

I am eager to hear any and all input on everything I've mentioned. Thanks much!


Edited by ChrisHippyLoser (12/22/04 06:07 PM)


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InvisibleTaskenti
MadPsycho
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Registered: 12/09/04
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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: ChrisHippyLoser]
    #3533565 - 12/22/04 11:27 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Purchasing more when you used those up? Are you talking about purchasing a different strain? If not then you should just do spore prints and make your own syringe.


--------------------
CIVIC IS Mycoshack!! Be careful trading with him!!
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showthreaded.php/Cat/0/Number/5686915/page/0/vc/1


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OfflineCrabbyAss
sharp shooter

Registered: 06/02/02
Posts: 176
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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: ChrisHippyLoser]
    #3533654 - 12/22/04 11:43 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ChrisHippyLoser said:

I figure one four pound bag is equivalent to roughly 10 quarts or 20 pints, giving me forty 1/2 pint jars. (a lot more than my initial guesstimate)





half pint is 8 fluid ounces.

4 lbs is 64 ounces
8 goes into 64 8 times.

4 lbs is 8 half pints from my calculations

correct me if im wrong


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OfflineShroomsbrrr
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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: CrabbyAss]
    #3533681 - 12/22/04 11:46 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

But wouldn't fluid ounces be a measure of volume and not weight?


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OfflineCrabbyAss
sharp shooter

Registered: 06/02/02
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Last seen: 10 years, 26 days
Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: Shroomsbrrr]
    #3533758 - 12/22/04 11:55 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

fluid ounces are a measure of weight.

Im just referencing that the 40 mark was way off. It will probably be a little more than 8 because verm weighs less than water. Not to mention air pockets and such.

I suppose the true question is, exactly how heavy the substrate is compared to water (by volume)

I would say 4lbs is somewhere around 10-12 PF half pints in comparison


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InvisibleADoobie
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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: ChrisHippyLoser]
    #3533902 - 12/23/04 12:18 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

"Tried and true strong strain, nothing exotic or finicky"

This is our first point of interest. Different strains grow on different substrates. Assuming that you picked some easy growing grain loving cubies, then your three different substrate bags will provide and excellent learning experience. You can now see which substrate is optimal for that strain under those conditions.

"I've also ordered 3 pre-sterilized substrate grow bags. These bags are 4 pounds each. I've opted to mix'n'match mediums. One rye/millet bag, one bird seed and the third pre-pasteurized straw/manure. Any input or predictions on my choices here? "

Leads back to the strains...but your cubies will probably grow on all three of the mentioned substrates. If you post your strains, people could give you a more definite opinion on your substrate choices.

"I will also be receiving a standard sterilized and pre-wetted vermiculite/calcium casing mix (not sure of the quantity)."

Sounds like fun. I wait like a puppy for the mailman every day.

"I am not sure of the amount of spore solution to inject into the bags. They are 4 pounds each and I'll have two 12cc syringes. I've done a fair amount of research and conversions and my current thought is that maybe I'll just pump each bag with 8cc."

YOW! Woah there tiger. You need to approach it from a different angle. The more the merrier to be sure...but drink 40 gallons of water and you are going to be bloated for a week! Think of your pre-sterilized and sealed bags as empty space with nutrients. Inject enough spores to germinate, and they will feed off those nutrients. The idea is that they don't have any competition, so you don't to flood the bag. A well shaken syringe and a properly placed cc or two will get you all the same molds that 8cc will, with 1/8th less the mess.

"I'll let the bags set in lysoled styrofoam container with a heated jar of water keeping the temp around 86F as best I can."

Good good. The cleaner the better!

Then I'll probably try to case one, let the other grow in the bag, and figure out something to do with the third (assuming that they're all viable). I haven't planned much on what to do with the fruiting bags, I'll be researching that more in the coming weeks. I know of the main options, I just need to read some more and make a decision.

Well, if you case one and bag the other two, you won't be able to determine which substrate was most beneficial, as casing results to different flushes. Casing at this stage in the game is decent gamble for you. You are going from that nice warm "pre-sterilized playpen" environment to "okay...how do I make this room safe for the little ones?". It's not the biggest step in the world, but this is where people are recommending you start small. It's much easier to learn "the hard way" on a small scale in small containers than "with all your eggs in one basket".

And of course, keep in mind;

There is only one thing that takes longer than myc to colonize your substrate. Myc colonizing your substrate for the first time. Hours...they just seem like days!

Hope that helps!


--------------------
ADoobie said:
I know what strikes me as odd about this. It is totally unnatural. The whole idea is just totally backwards.

So are historians going to look back at 'The Great Cake Eaters'? Damn. That was a backwards step in the evolutionary process. We left Shroomheads in the dust. Welcome to the new age of Vermheads.

VvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVv

I ONLY STUDY legal, edible mushrooms and mycology. Any mention of any other kind of mushroom is purely fictional, and pictures are ripped from the internet. I do not grow mushrooms!


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Offlinescatmanrav
Brainy Smurf

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,483
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 4 years, 17 days
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: ADoobie]
    #3534120 - 12/23/04 01:21 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

4lb's is probably more like 4 quarts..8 pints..16 half pints.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineIfIWereARichMan
journeyman
Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 84
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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: ADoobie]
    #3534222 - 12/23/04 01:43 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ADoobie said:
"Tried and true strong strain, nothing exotic or finicky"

This is our first point of interest. Different strains grow on different substrates. Assuming that you picked some easy growing grain loving cubies, then your three different substrate bags will provide and excellent learning experience. You can now see which substrate is optimal for that strain under those conditions.





Care to back that up with some proof?


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OfflineChrisHippyLoser
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Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 120
Loc: Big Tex
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: IfIWereARichMan]
    #3534294 - 12/23/04 02:05 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks guys...its fuckin cool to see some feedback on this stuff! My girlfriend's dad told me that santa's getting her a digital camera for christmas, so you fellas can expect to see a log of this experiment. I've also got some BRF & verm jars in the pc right now too. I'll do up 12 jars and 1 or 2 bags. I'm gonna have to work the math and figure a good conversion. I'll try to remember to post whatever I come up with. Although that 10 to 12 half pints sounds more on the mark than my original 40 (I knew that shit had to be wrong)


Edited by ChrisHippyLoser (12/23/04 02:09 AM)


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InvisibleADoobie
AdoobieShroomery
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Posts: 471
Loc: I moved!
Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: IfIWereARichMan]
    #3535656 - 12/23/04 01:43 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

IfIWereARichMan said:
Quote:

ADoobie said:
"Tried and true strong strain, nothing exotic or finicky"

This is our first point of interest. Different strains grow on different substrates. Assuming that you picked some easy growing grain loving cubies, then your three different substrate bags will provide and excellent learning experience. You can now see which substrate is optimal for that strain under those conditions.





Care to back that up with some proof?




Ummm. Care to prove me wrong? Unless I am mistaken, all I said was that you could knock up all three bags and watch their progess, then decide for yourself which ones weren't a good idea. Considering he didn't tell us the strain, why don't you explain to me how you want me to back up ANYTHING, without a definite starting point.

Honestly, did your post have a point? If so please do us the favor and write it out.

Here, let me quote myself again for you.

"...provide and excellent learning experience"

Hmm. Sounds like all I am saying there is that you are about to learn something, not get pounds of yield.

Ass.


--------------------
ADoobie said:
I know what strikes me as odd about this. It is totally unnatural. The whole idea is just totally backwards.

So are historians going to look back at 'The Great Cake Eaters'? Damn. That was a backwards step in the evolutionary process. We left Shroomheads in the dust. Welcome to the new age of Vermheads.

VvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVv

I ONLY STUDY legal, edible mushrooms and mycology. Any mention of any other kind of mushroom is purely fictional, and pictures are ripped from the internet. I do not grow mushrooms!


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OfflineCrabbyAss
sharp shooter

Registered: 06/02/02
Posts: 176
Last seen: 10 years, 26 days
Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3535748 - 12/23/04 02:04 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

scatmanrav said:
4lb's is probably more like 4 quarts..8 pints..16 half pints.




if that were true, the substrate would have to weigh 1/2 what water weighs. (highly unlikely)

8 oz (in a half pint) times 16 (Amount of half pints you quoted) will give you a weight of 128 ounces. 128 ounces is 8 lbs.


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OfflineChrisHippyLoser
Dope Smoker

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 120
Loc: Big Tex
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: CrabbyAss]
    #3535770 - 12/23/04 02:13 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

wow.... trying to get this straigthened out is like trying to read an analog clock on a really intense trip...shouldn't be all that tough, but for whatever reason it is...

how about we wait until i've got the bags and then i'll try to figure it out with one setting in from of me...


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Offlinescatmanrav
Brainy Smurf

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,483
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Last seen: 4 years, 17 days
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Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: CrabbyAss]
    #3545480 - 12/26/04 09:53 PM (12 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

CrabbyAss said:
Quote:

scatmanrav said:
4lb's is probably more like 4 quarts..8 pints..16 half pints.




if that were true, the substrate would have to weigh 1/2 what water weighs. (highly unlikely)

8 oz (in a half pint) times 16 (Amount of half pints you quoted) will give you a weight of 128 ounces. 128 ounces is 8 lbs.




Highly unlikly all you want, I can assure you that when I make a 1/2 pint of grain it weighs about 4 ounces (usually less, 100-120 grams).

Besides I've actually made 4 lb bags of grain and I know how big they are...not 8 quarts or 2 quarts...more like 4. Theories don't always add up when applied to the real world.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Edited by scatmanrav (12/26/04 09:56 PM)


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OfflineChrisHippyLoser
Dope Smoker

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 120
Loc: Big Tex
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: Newbie about to dive in head first - amount of spore syring CCs into 4 lb grow bag? [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3546343 - 12/27/04 01:58 AM (12 years, 28 days ago)

ok...so supposing that 4lbs of substrate is rougly four quarts then i could probably get away with using 4cc of solution?


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