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OfflineAlan
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picking after veil breaks.
    #3525463 - 12/20/04 10:03 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

hey,

the veils break on my shrooms when they are so small. i mean around an inch. is it OK to let them grow for a few days after breaking so they can get some girth?


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Offlinelemon_lw
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Re: picking after veil breaks. [Re: Alan]
    #3525471 - 12/20/04 10:07 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

after the veil breaks it quits producing psilocybin. so you can do it but they will be the same potency as if they were still an inch big. now lets figgure out why they break bring so small, ok. tell me everything you have in the way of temp. light, rh and air exchange.


--------------------
In the belly of the Leviathan, one can either despair and perish, or be cheerful and persevere.-Dean Koontz


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Offlinephantasm
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Re: picking after veil breaks. [Re: lemon_lw]
    #3525505 - 12/20/04 10:17 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

^^^^ this is not a proven fact in anyway so yes its fine to let them grow more but they should get bigger than an inch with optimum rh and temp. if it is a casing your substrate layer maybe way to thin but yeah put all your info on here and someone can explain why they are so small.

but in reference to the stops producing psilocybin after veil breaks until someones shows me scientific evidence i and going to keep it labeled as a "myth"

-mike


--------------------
Only God Grows Amanita Muscaria


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Offlinelemon_lw
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Re: picking after veil breaks. [Re: phantasm]
    #3525531 - 12/20/04 10:27 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

you are right phantasm. this is all just a myth. a commonly excepted myth that i posted without any true proof. i apologize for that, but it is the way i view it. and i may be wrong in the whole QUIT producing psilocybin. it may just slow in production. but the general consensus is to pick the shroom right as the veil starts to tear. unless you are making a spore print in which you let it tear. so once again sorry, but it is the common rule of thumb IMO.


--------------------
In the belly of the Leviathan, one can either despair and perish, or be cheerful and persevere.-Dean Koontz


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Offlinephantasm
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Re: picking after veil breaks. [Re: lemon_lw]
    #3525543 - 12/20/04 10:33 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

i was not arguing just trying to keeps facts as facts no need for so many apologies and yes ipick as soon as the veil breaks as well or sometimes just before

just thought i would let him know that nothing bad happens if you leave them and extra day or so except spotres get everywhere

-mike

vvvvv nope not proven but as lemon said a generally excepted myth


--------------------
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OfflineShroomsbrrr
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Re: picking after veil breaks. [Re: lemon_lw]
    #3525545 - 12/20/04 10:33 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I thought that was proven that once the veil breaks the mushrooms go into spore production and stop producing psilocybin?


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Offlinelemon_lw
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Re: picking after veil breaks. [Re: Shroomsbrrr]
    #3525551 - 12/20/04 10:36 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

i dont know if it actually proven. just what most people think. but hey it might be, just never read anything on it.


--------------------
In the belly of the Leviathan, one can either despair and perish, or be cheerful and persevere.-Dean Koontz


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OfflinePupenhause
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Re: picking after veil breaks. [Re: lemon_lw]
    #3525792 - 12/20/04 11:50 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

couldnt some smart scientist do a test?


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Offline13eetleJuice
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Re: picking after veil breaks. [Re: Pupenhause]
    #3525880 - 12/21/04 12:10 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Pupenhause said:
couldnt some smart scientist do a test?




Not very accurately, I'm afraid. The amount of psilocybin varies from strain to strain and in individual mushrooms as well. There are just too many variables to deal with.

First of all the mushrooms tested would definately all have to be from the same cake. If not then you wouldn't get accurate results because cakes in the same incubation chamber, and of the same strain, still colonize at different rates. Does this play a factor in psilocybin production later on?

So, using the same cake you would have to test mushrooms at different levels in thier growth. In order to do this you would have to designate mushroom A as the control group and let it mature completely. Mushroom B would be harvested for testing say, 6 hours after the veil has broken. Mushroom C, just as the viel is breaking. Mushroom D, 6 hours prior to when you think the veil will break, etc. etc. (you see where I'm going).

Now this raises even more questions such as: Does the cake produce more psilocybin in mushroom A (the control group) because there is a surplus of chemical with nowhere to go due to the fact you picked the other mushrooms before maturity? You see what I'm getting at.

And still the psilocybin content varies within each shroom. Not a great deal but enough that you can't draw any accurate conclusions from such a test.


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OfflineAlan
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Re: picking after veil breaks. [Re: 13eetleJuice]
    #3526254 - 12/21/04 01:54 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

BRF cakes. RH around 96-97 using perlite in a single tub with ambient room temps between 69-71. using 2 bubble bars and a Profile 1500 for air. i mist directly into the tub hitting shrooms and cakes then fan. 3-6 times daily depending if I am working.

thanks.


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InvisibleDirtMcgirt
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Re: picking after veil breaks. [Re: Alan]
    #3526348 - 12/21/04 02:31 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

on the last flush of a casing let those bitches overripen to a ridiculous amount to get the most weight out of 'em. I would argue that the psilocybin slows production once ripe IME but not stops. Spores seem to inhibit future pins but if its the last one why not?

In general, more weight = more psilocybin (IMO)


--------------------
"And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: picking after veil breaks. [Re: DirtMcgirt]
    #3526383 - 12/21/04 02:50 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

You would also need to repeat the test a hundred times or so.

The general consensus is psilocybin production stops but thats because thats what you were told wasnt it?

I dont buy it either...


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflinefIsh in my head
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Re: picking after veil breaks. [Re: DirtMcgirt]
    #3526391 - 12/21/04 02:54 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DirtMcgirt said:

In general, more weight = more psilocybin (IMO)




:lol: That's fine with me too.  As long as the magic is there, i'll deal with it !

.fs.


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Offlineslowgrowth101
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Re: picking after veil breaks. [Re: Alan]
    #3526661 - 12/21/04 06:33 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

i am still a major newb. but Alan, u said, "i mist directly into the tub hitting shrooms and cakes then fan". I may be wrong but arent u supposed to fan and then mist to keep the moisture in. if u mist then fan, arent u just fanning away all the mist u just sprayed into the container? could be why ur shrooms are short. any other opinions?
also i dont think u are supposed to mist on the cakes, infact u dont want moisture build up on the cakes (can increase chances of contams), u just want molecular water in the air. I just ripped apart a bottle of Swiss Army Altitude cologne and cleaned it out good to use the nice atomizer on it as my mister hehe. works wonders, no big droplets just fine fine mist.

anyone feel free to correct me if i have conveyed false info


Edited by slowgrowth101 (12/21/04 06:40 AM)


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OfflineGlobalSmoke
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Re: picking after veil breaks. [Re: DirtMcgirt]
    #3526665 - 12/21/04 06:37 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DirtMcgirt said:
.... Spores seem to inhibit future pins but if its the last one why not?
(IMO)




Why do you think this? Please explain your hypothysis in more detail.


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InvisibleLouiseLouise
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Re: picking after veil breaks. [Re: GlobalSmoke]
    #3526864 - 12/21/04 09:07 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

ok, what about the water hitting the shrooms?
could that be stunting them? the tech says specifically not to let water directly lay on the pins?

Just a side note: * It may not be proven, but the one who wrote pf tek at this site says that even the aborts are more potent than the mature specimens.?.

:peace:


--------------------
"That's why you get in close to them, and then take the picture!! Don't be a pussy!" ~CC


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Offline13eetleJuice
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Re: picking after veil breaks. [Re: LouiseLouise]
    #3528202 - 12/21/04 04:49 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

This potency issue of aborts keeps going round and round. I'll try to clarify it to the best of my ability for those new here and haven't heard this before.

Ok, basically a flush begins with the cake forming hyphal knots which in a few short days, becomes your first set of pins. Those pins go on to grow into your larger mushrooms and they are all producing psilocybin as they grow. Due to lack of nutrients, lack of moisture, too much moisture, and countless other reasons, some of these little guys don't quite make it to maturity. They stay quite small in comparison to thier fully grown brethren and thier heads begin to turn black. This happens because the cake or casing can't fill the needs of all the mushrooms and by way of natural selection, these mushrooms are denied the proper nutrients in order to continue growth. This is done for the good of the masses; in order to save the populous the cake/casing sacrifices a few. Although the aborts were denied the usage of available nutrients to continue in thier physical growth, it is believed that they continue to produce psilocybin, on thier own.

The factor you need to keep in mind when dosing is potency BY WEIGHT. Eating 5 dried grams of aborts as opposed to eating 5 dried grams of mature shrooms will quite possibly send you into a much heavier trip. Simply because you would be eating more of the aborts because they don't weigh as much.

This said, the answer is yes, the aborts are more potent by weight, but no they are not more potent by number. I hope I've presented this as clear as possible and haven't confused anyone any more than they were prior to reading this.


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Offlineantioch
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Re: picking after veil breaks. [Re: LouiseLouise]
    #3528204 - 12/21/04 04:50 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LouiseLouise said:
ok, what about the water hitting the shrooms?
could that be stunting them? the tech says specifically not to let water directly lay on the pins?

Just a side note: * It may not be proven, but the one who wrote pf tek at this site says that even the aborts are more potent than the mature specimens.?.

:peace:




Mmm yeah, water hitting the shrooms will cause droplets which isn't good I believe.

Also about the abort thing, I think they're supposedly very potent (if not more) because the psilocybin is so concentrated in just that little size.  :mushroom2:

Just my 2 cents  :rolleyes:


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: picking after veil breaks. [Re: 13eetleJuice]
    #3528507 - 12/21/04 06:43 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

13eetleJuice said:
The factor you need to keep in mind when dosing is potency BY WEIGHT. Eating 5 dried grams of aborts as opposed to eating 5 dried grams of mature shrooms will quite possibly send you into a much heavier trip. Simply because you would be eating more of the aborts because they don't weigh as much.




So if you grind up those 5 grams of abort to powder and the other 5 grams you'll be eating more mushrooms with the aborts causing you to go into a harder trip?

FIVE GRAMS IS FIVE GRAMS. Theres not more or less weight in dried aborts as dried mushrooms..just because there are more mushrooms doesnt mean theres more mushroom material..and if you think its the number of mushrooms that makes you trip then cut all your mushrooms in half, or quarters, or grind them up to a powder and you can eat as many mushroom peices as you feel is nessasary.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: picking after veil breaks. [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3528627 - 12/21/04 07:25 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Its all relative, but is there relative MORE PS in an abort then in a mature shroom?

Ah, I cannot care much but just for statistics... :grin:


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