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 painloc21
Dumb Ass
Registered: 11/12/04
Posts: 81
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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 WBS problem? 
#3525124 - 12/20/04 05:31 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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O.K so i used Docs WBS tek and followed it to a T. 9 quart jars of WBS noced up on Dec 8th. I used tyvel then metal lid with polyfill then aluminum foil (2 Layers) then 2 coffee filters held on by ruberbands. I put 6 in my home made TiT. The tit is normal with 2 or 3 inches of water at the bottom. A submersable fish tank heater and another tub sitting on top. The other 3 jars were simply placed in a large rubbermaid tub with the lid put on. The tit and the rubbermaid tub are sitting in a dark closet with a space heater in it set to between 70 and 75 degrees. Today was the first day i checked on the jars. 2 of the jars in the tit show no growth. 1 jar shows a dime sized peice of grouth and the other 3 have growth on a couple spots the size of quarters. The jars that are in the rubbermaid also have a couple spots with growth the size of quarters. I took each jar and shook them up and they all sounded and looked very dry. There is no condensation in the jars at all. And the jars in the tit feel realy warm but the others feel room temp. I am wondering if the WBS is too dry? And if so what should i do? I took the coffee filters off all the jars and losened the aluminum foil for better air exchange. What else can i do to speed things up. Or am i right on track? sorry for all the questions.
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 Holydiver
Stranger
Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 5,156
Loc: The midnight sea
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Re: WBS problem? [Re: painloc21]
#3525144 - 12/20/04 05:38 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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My only experience with WBS is 2/3 cup seed to 1/3 cup water, this prepares a 1 pint jar for the correct ratio. No pre-soaking or anything, just PC for an hour. I'm not familiar with Docs tek using quart jars. If you have a TiT setup why are your incubation temps so low?
Bump it up to 85-86 and save yourself lots of time. I get 1 pint jars to fully colonize in any substrate in usually under 2 weeks at 86F. I can't imagine incubating in the 70s, ouch.
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To find a place to live between the negatives and positives.
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painloc21
Dumb Ass
Registered: 11/12/04
Posts: 81
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: WBS problem? [Re: Holydiver]
#3525156 - 12/20/04 05:42 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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I dont actualy know what the temp is inside the tit because the tape on therm that i used is not doing anything. It stays black. As i said the jars in the tit were very warm. The others that i simply put in the large rubbermaid were room temp.
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Holydiver
Stranger
Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 5,156
Loc: The midnight sea
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Re: WBS problem? [Re: painloc21]
#3525216 - 12/20/04 05:59 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't know what to tell you then. The best way to improve your process is to fork out some cash for an accurate digital thermometer. Make changes from there once you get some reliable data.
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To find a place to live between the negatives and positives.
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painloc21
Dumb Ass
Registered: 11/12/04
Posts: 81
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: WBS problem? [Re: Holydiver]
#3525362 - 12/20/04 07:12 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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What about the WBS being too dry? When i shake the jars it sounds like dry seed inside. And after this amount of time under perfect conditions what type of growth should i be seeing?
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djred
newbie
Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 922
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Re: WBS problem? [Re: painloc21]
#3525544 - 12/20/04 08:33 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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there should be plenty of water.if ya simmered. mine do the same. g to wolly world buy atherm in the kitchen appliance area. they sell digi's for 8 bucks.i lost mine some where here in the basement.still haven't found it.
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phantasm
DXM GURU
Registered: 09/10/04
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Re: WBS problem? [Re: djred]
#3525554 - 12/20/04 08:36 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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if you followed Doc's your fine that all i use now a days because i dont have enough money for rye but it works great the only contamns i ever had was when i was to lazy to take the sunflower seeds out which by the way grow great bread mold if thats what your going for
-mike
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Only God Grows Amanita Muscaria
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painloc21
Dumb Ass
Registered: 11/12/04
Posts: 81
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: WBS problem? [Re: phantasm]
#3526266 - 12/20/04 11:57 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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I will def get a digital on payday. So what i guess yall are saying is im fine? I just need to adjust the temps? I did follow the tek to a T. I soaked overnight. Took out all the floaters. Rinsed everytime the tek said to. Simmered ect. Hopefully the temps are just off and that can be fixed.
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LaughingJim
Anti-Toxin
Registered: 09/30/04
Posts: 465
Loc: USA, ( CT )
Last seen: 18 years, 7 months
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Re: WBS problem? [Re: painloc21]
#3528384 - 12/21/04 03:57 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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Try for the more natural 78-88F range... 75F is great for developing mushrooms (After they have pinned), but is not great for incubation.
They will grow... but slower at 75F...
I get growth after day 1 @ 88F (Avg) (Range = 79F-92F That is how my ceramic air heater works, on at 79F or lower, then off at 92F or higher... The air averages to 88F.)
After 2 days, you should have quarter size webs...
After 3 days, you should have half dollar size sheets, and twice as much webs (Veins).
After 4 days, about 50% of you cake should be colonized...
After 8 days, your cake should be almost all white...
After 9 days, you should see tons of balls where veins cross...
After 10 days, the balls should be about the size of erasers...
After 11 days, you should see pins starting... (Cold shock now!)
NOTE: Digital is great... but can throw you off, and scare you!
You will see it jump to 100 and freak! but the AVG may only be 75...
Fold a piece of paper-towel so that it is twice as long as the temprature probe, (3 fold) -> ||||. Now wrap that around your probe tight, so that the towel sticks out a little on the empty side, and a little on the wire side. (A probe sock) Then tape it up good, so that it stays wraped up. Now your probe will give you a better temp reading, as to the AVG. (Your jars are insulated with glass, and now your probe is insulated with paper-towel.)
You are not interested in the imediate temprature, you are interested in teh AVG settling temp. The final temp that the jars maintain inside.
The heat in your house is over 120F, but you feel 75, because that is the avg. (Which is why I like to also have a phisical temprature guage inside the area also... it isn't as fast, so it gives you a better perception of AVG.)
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Edited by LaughingJim (12/21/04 04:05 PM)
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MushroomFriend
I smell a conspiracy!
Registered: 10/12/04
Posts: 4,055
Loc: The Druid Peak Pack.
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Yes raise temp, 70-75 is perfect to fruit but they will colonize much slower then at the mid/high 80-ies.
Also one tyvek layer, polyfill, 2 layers of coffee filters and 2 layers of alufoil IS a large OVERKILL, imhno.
I would get rid of the alufoil and coffeefilters.
THen try to raise humidty in the TIT, I thought it wasnt of any use but some veterans here say that a dry TIT can also make your jars evaporate.
Combined with too WARM it really could dry your jars out.
edit: use a good old aquarium thermometer: http://your-petmart.net/pet-supplies/bfpid=28776.jpg
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Edited by MushroomFriend (12/21/04 04:14 PM)
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painloc21
Dumb Ass
Registered: 11/12/04
Posts: 81
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Well my problem with the temps is this. I bought the submersable fish tank heater before reading as much as i should have. So it does not have any way to change the temps on it. So you just plug it in and let it go. I dont even think the damn thing is working. Also being winter. The house is realy cold! I turned the space heater up to 90 degrees. And i wrapped the tit and the other rubbermaid tub in a blanket. I plkan on buying a better fish tank heater and digital therm on payday. Hopefully that will speed things up. I also think i dident use enough spore solution. I only used 1cc per jar.
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MushroomFriend
I smell a conspiracy!
Registered: 10/12/04
Posts: 4,055
Loc: The Druid Peak Pack.
Last seen: 1 month, 8 days
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Re: WBS problem? [Re: painloc21]
#3528481 - 12/21/04 04:31 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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1CC is ok for a PF jar (250CC)
Digital therm isnt needed for your TIT bro but do as you please. An old fashioned aquaroum heater does its work and is much cheaper.
From the money you save you can buy sporesyringes.. 
Edit: or a better heater 
And I see you dont have PF jars, for a quart of WBS 1cc isnt much but in good conditions you should have better growth with it then you have atm.
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Edited by MushroomFriend (12/21/04 04:33 PM)
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painloc21
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Registered: 11/12/04
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Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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I started two Karo jars tonight so hopefully i wont have to worry about spores any more. On payday i am going to buy what i need for a bigger (and hopefully better) Tit. What amount of spore soulution should i put in future quart size jars. I went with 1 cc because i was told that if i put in too much it would throw off the water content. Because TLG is such a great guy i have plenty of spore solution still.
Edited by painloc21 (12/21/04 04:58 PM)
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scatmanrav
Brainy Smurf
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,483
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Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Quote:
MushroomFriend said:
Digital therm isnt needed for your TIT bro but do as you please. An old fashioned aquaroum heater does its work and is much cheaper.
The temperature you set your heater to will almost always be different then the temperature inside the tub where your jars are. Mine had to be set to 74 to get 84, a thermometer was needed to tell where to set the heater at. Though a digital thermometer isnt needed. Digitals are only cool if they come with the hygrometer and its a good one. Of course the constant humidity does digitals in if you leave them in for a long time. Otherwise any thermometer would do.
The good heaters though have the external probe that can go in with your jars..then you can just set it (to 84*) and forget it.
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MushroomFriend
I smell a conspiracy!
Registered: 10/12/04
Posts: 4,055
Loc: The Druid Peak Pack.
Last seen: 1 month, 8 days
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I must set my heater at about 86 to make it about 86 in my tit. I have a http://your-petmart.net/pet-supplies/bfpid=28776.jpg in my TIT and it is doing its job.
In fruiting chamber I have a digital rh/temp meter. But I already know by see and feel if temp and Rh are good.
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MushroomFriend
I smell a conspiracy!
Registered: 10/12/04
Posts: 4,055
Loc: The Druid Peak Pack.
Last seen: 1 month, 8 days
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Re: WBS problem? [Re: painloc21]
#3530445 - 12/22/04 03:16 AM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
painloc21 said:
I started two Karo jars tonight so hopefully i wont have to worry about spores any more. On payday i am going to buy what i need for a bigger (and hopefully better) Tit. What amount of spore soulution should i put in future quart size jars. I went with 1 cc because i was told that if i put in too much it would throw off the water content. Because TLG is such a great guy i have plenty of spore solution still.
SPORE solution put about 2 - 2,5 CC per quart size jar. 2,5CC at a 1000CC jar doesnt throw your water content of.
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scatmanrav
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I'd actually stick to 1cc...I have found even 3 cc's can throw off water content enough to slow germination a few days. Just my opinion..
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MushroomFriend
I smell a conspiracy!
Registered: 10/12/04
Posts: 4,055
Loc: The Druid Peak Pack.
Last seen: 1 month, 8 days
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I have no problems with 2,5-3 CC in my WBS jar. Except that I had contams. 2cc in a pint even gave strong growth already after a few days.
It sounds odd to me that on a liter 1CC makes the difference. Besides all teh teks advice something like 2 - 2,5 CC on a quart, so I guess its no bad thing.
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scatmanrav
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Everyones different.
I also am a rye guy, havnt used WBS much..perhaps rye is affected more since it holds water better..after a simmer my rye is as wet as it can be in the jars without there being standing water..
You definatly have to try things out for yourself and see what works for you in this hobby.
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MushroomFriend
I smell a conspiracy!
Registered: 10/12/04
Posts: 4,055
Loc: The Druid Peak Pack.
Last seen: 1 month, 8 days
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yep true, but actually rye (like magash rye tek) can also be inoculated with 2CC p quart...
Ah but what am I talking I talk commons sense reading from experienced people and bit experience myself, which is the difference cause you (smr) have much more own experience...
There will come a day, when I stop pouring alcohol in my PMP that I have it all 3 too! 
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