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OfflineMushmonkey
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Topic. and... aliens, sure
    #3519721 - 12/19/04 08:56 AM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

4)Come with an open mind





An open mind. Exactly what does that mean?

It could mean we are to accept everything we read here. I do not believe that is the case. That sort of thing... well, since it's not a person I suppose I'm able to insult it. That sort of thing is asinine. It's naive, it's irresponsible, it's depressing to watch, it's fly-by-night salesmen lining their pockets with the money of the elderly. No, I do not think that one of the rules of this forum is to blindly believe.

It could mean we are to not remain comfortablely within the warm blankets of our beliefs, instead to open our minds to the fullness of other possibilities. I think that's a bit closer to the intention. Openness to new ideas is not buying whatever's beling sold.
I believe the heart of this rule is that we are to consider other viewpoints that we may not agree with. How to judge what is right and wrong? That'd be with that lump of fat behind your eyes.

If you tell me that the moon's a giant egg that's fixing to hatch soon.. I'm not going to believe it. I would not be acting with a closed mind, either -- it's a ridiculous idea, and hey! We've been there, I've seen the rocks. It's a lump of rocks. Not a giant space chicken egg. Pretty sure about that one.

So, there - I contribute! Now talk. The phrase 'open mind' in regards to how we are supposed to conduct ourselves here -- does it mean we are to come here accepting all ideas as equal, or are we supposed to reject all ideas as equal, or some other weird third thing?




Hah, yeah apparently while I was gone yall decided to have a big drama party and excluded me.. I think the uber big Swami thread got moved, and is now locked. Sucksferyou because I'm.. just.. going to post my thoughts on the matter as a small post script to the above post.
Essentially, this ban gets two thumbs down from me. I've read more acerbic and direct personal attacks from MODS than I've read from Swami. Actually let me amend that, I've read more acerbic and direct personal attacks from Mods, replying TO Swami, than I've read from Swami replying to anyone else.

He's a hell of a lot more kind with words than I am, I'll say that. I'm the guy who once was laughing because he managed to cause a guy to get red in the face, foam at the mouth and jump out of his chair screaming that unbaptised infants and the stillborn go to hell. Obviously not the sort of, ahem, debate that most here would go for but hey.. I try and tone it down and rather than pick irritatingly at tender points in beliefs.. I try to just poke into the gaping holes of good sense and reality. Makes it easier for the other party to walk away -- of course that rarely happens, as something so innocent is taken as a personal attack, and then though attempts were made at civility the foaming and spewing still is the result. Not my, nor anyone's, fault save the one who takes such comments as attacks.

If you wish your beliefs to be proof against logic and reason, that is fine; do not be upset if errors in that logic and reason are found and comments are made.
If you do not care if your beliefs are logical and reasonable.. why the flying sideways fuck would you care if errors in logic and reason are found?

Do I tell a three-year-old that he can't built a castle floating on a cloud because they aren't solid and stone doesn't float? No, of course not.
Do I tell a thirteen-year-old? Yes of course. He would then be free to either give me the finger and continue pretending, or could abandon the idea entirely, or could instead try to puzzle through the problem that I had illuminated. And for shits and giggles just to make the third alternative more attractive, let's just say that my 'bashing' of his idea caused him to try even harder to prove me wrong, and hey let's say he invents levitation why not. Sure'd have egg on my face, eh?
Under the first response, by the by, would have been taken as an attack on the idea and perhaps the holder of the idea.. under the second, it would have debunked the idea.. and under the third it may even be called an inspiration.

Crazy how things can work out. Anyway! Answer my question. The one at the top. About the 'open mind' part of the rules of this forum. I'm interested to see what everyone thinks what it actually means. Feel free to use one of my two example positions.. but I'd rather read through a whole bunch of close yet differently worded opinions than a few intersparced with copy/paste lines from my original post. Semantics are important and how you say what you say may just say more than you said originally. Things. Sleep. uh.. later!


--------------------
i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.


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Offlinewhole9
LOVE ME BITCH

Registered: 04/28/03
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Re: Topic. and... aliens, sure [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #3519734 - 12/19/04 09:06 AM (13 years, 1 day ago)

An "open mind" to me is just thinking about a question, not neccessarly responding to it immediatly just by thinking about it. I think the phrase is semi self explanatory, but could be better worded for example when I think of an open mind I think of a person who is not quick to judge even though they have alot of wisdom when it comes to knowing things.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Registered: 05/28/04
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Re: Topic. and... aliens, sure [Re: whole9]
    #3520389 - 12/19/04 02:33 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

an open mind just means considering all ideas presented fairly and without arbitrarily dismissing them because they dont agree with your preconcieved ideas. it obviously doesnt mean blind acceptance, it just means not blind rejectance...

not a hard concept really.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
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Re: Topic. and... aliens, sure [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3520450 - 12/19/04 02:53 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

"not a hard concept really"

haha


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Topic. and... aliens, sure [Re: exclusive58]
    #3520551 - 12/19/04 03:29 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

what? i mean it isnt is it?

i remember my mom actually sat me down to tell me what having an open mind was all about when i was like 8.


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Everything I post is fiction.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Topic. and... aliens, sure [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #3520679 - 12/19/04 03:58 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

I just realized how closed minded people can be to the "concept" of open mindedness. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. For them, it is a hard concept.

We know what the mind is- a thought processor.
We know what open means-free space and or a way to enter into some new space.

Open areas keep things flowing and moving in an infinitude of possible directions.

Opening your mind to others ideas does not mean you will go or HAVE to go or end up where they did. It just means that you respect their right to and allow them them right. Often for me others ideas are just pivotal points that send me in a completely different directions of exploring the open space of my mind and heart.

I like bouncing off of them.

An open mind is one that opens doors for itself and allows for others to open what ever doors to whatever saces they feel pulled to exploring in.

doors shut and people get kicked out of spaces when the words No, wrong, bad, and can't be come into play. maybe it is for you, maybe not for someone else.

Seeing or looking for the good in the bad, keeps you and all free.

Seeing the right in a wrong keeps you and all free.

Seeing the yes potential in a no keeps you and all free.

Seeing the what can be out of the what can't be keeps you and all free.

Someones ideas that may give rise to a No, wrong, bad, can't be, reaction can become pivotal points for moving in new directions of self exploration OR a door to be opened by yourself.

If you feel like you already explored that area of the self, and know it all, then you know what you gained from that exploration, why take it away from another? If you haven't even been exploring in that area, why tell someone they have to get out of it?

Who the fuck is anyone to tell someone not to go to a place they haven't even been to? Who is someone to talk about what is in there when they haven't been in there themselves?

The lesson I just learned today is the biggy for me. If someone is venturing into territory I did and then walked away from, I need not tell them to do the same because of what I found there. They have something there to find for themselves by themselves on their own in their own way.

Thank God for this post because I Just realized that I did that once to some here a while back, told him to stay away from a certain web-site and it's teachings because I thought that were terribly screwed up and distorted and would mess with his head as I saw what it did to others who were into it.

Maybe there was nothing much there for me, but maybe he had diamonds to find. Fuck, so now that I set myself up to him as the know it all of where not to go, he keeps asking me where is the place to go. What a jack ass I was for doing that. I thought I was saving him from something, but now, I remember, there is nothing we need saving from but our own selves. He had pieces of himself to find there that have been tormenting him to make peace with. Argggggggggggg

I was just telling him to find his own way this morning in PMs, because I lost patience and it wasn't fair of me to do that because I freaking started it by telling him where NOT to go. And today, I tell him to find his own way.

What an ass of me and I am going to apologies in PMs and tell him to read this.

It just dawned on me that other members here constantly tell people where not to go, and then so those people think they know a lot and then turn to them asking, well where do we go to find our truth, and then the same ones say, quit following me.

It's quite ridiculous.

Today, I have learned, that a huge part of being open minded, is allowing for other people to freely explore where it is they are called to discover more of themselves. If you can't do that, you're going to acquire followers who think you know where they are suppose to go to find their truth. That's Bullshit.

It's a no wonder we have people bumping into each other around here. To many leaders and followers. If you don't want to be a leader, quit acting like you know the way and know it all because you don't. If you don't want to be a follower realize only you know whats best and right for you and work at following the calls and pulls you feel in your heart and mind of curiosity. Then you have everyone else crossing through the lines on there own path breaking flows and or dodging them to stay clear.

Shrooms, religion, spirituality, philosophy, it's all about discovery and discovering the self through experience and exploration, sometimes, it's in the mirror of others which is why such a community forms, speeds up the process. When it comes to exploring the realms of consciousness, what does anyone need saving from? Let them be to figure out more of who they are and where they are.

:heart: :thumbup:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Re: Topic. and... aliens, sure [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #3520728 - 12/19/04 04:13 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Ha Ha ha ha ha Mush,

I just read in the women and art post. Now I know I was on when I said how people who find open mindedness a difficult conept to grasp are probably close minded to being open minded.

Last I checked, we had a pretty equal proporation of the male and female essense scattered about this planet, with all humans containing a healthy balance or not so healthy imbalance of both. Cutting yourself off from half of the population and a vital portion of your own essense is doing what, being open minded?


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
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Re: Topic. and... aliens, sure [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3520834 - 12/19/04 04:46 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

open mindedness is really not a hard concept, except for the close minded people! You're lucky moonshoe, to have had a mom like that. it's all about the education one receives..


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Topic. and... aliens, sure [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3520981 - 12/19/04 05:31 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Well since the question was raised here, I'll reply here, though as to the original topic.. I'm going to keep my hands off it till a few more replies come in. Just my bag.

It's not that I decided women authors were crap and I'd never read them.

That would be closed-minded.

I have read. I have found lacking. Is that closed-minded?

Should I read dribble that I find juvenille and uninspired simply because it was written by someone who is of a different gender?

Would that be open-minded?

I refuse to make concessions. You're a woman writer? I have no problem with that. You're a writer who is, let's be kind, less than good? I won't read what you write. Regardless of gender, a bad book is a bad book is a bad book, and I would consider it unfair to read a bad book simply because the writer was a woman, or black, or a midget, or handicapped -- the work should stand tall on its own, not with its author propping it up with some aspect of their physical body.

It's a book. It's words, it's sentences and paragraphs, it's a story, and we're all on even ground.

And I suppose I'm mentioning the whole open/close minded thing more than I had hoped, but meh. Happens.

I do not believe that being open minded would require me to applaud and appreciate things that I find distasteful and dull. Being open minded would rather require me to make an honest estimation of all things -- it's not that women can't write, it's that I've not come across a woman author who has written anything great.

The former would be closed minded -- no woman can write. Ever. Nothing a woman could ever write will ever be any good, so go home shut up and put the pen down Betty.

That's not the case.
I'd be more than glad to read a book by a woman and enjoy it -- not because it's written by a woman but because I enjoy good books.

I never said it's because women are dumb or can't write. I do not believe those things. I never, in fact, offered ANY explanation as to why women authors, by my estimation, are subpar to their male counterparts. I made a personal observation, leaving the causes and implications up to everyone to ponder on their own dime. That's not my problem.

The topic was broached; literature was mentioned. I made my contribution, that I have found women authors quite lacking.

Again, I did not say that women cannot write, nor did I say that no one should read books written by women, nor did I say the books were poorly written because the author was a woman.
it's not because they have vaginas, but because I did not enjoy their books.

I fail to see anything at all closed-minded in my stance on that issue. I do not need to enjoy or appreciate everything, and as I did actually form my opinion after, and not before, reading their books.. is that closed minded?
I've been to bars, and after experiencing it, I came to the conclusion they are noisy and stupid. Should I never mention my negative opinion even when the topic is brought up? Should I pretend I actually enjoy it to possibly prevent someone else from being offended by a contradictory viewpoint?


--------------------
i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Re: Topic. and... aliens, sure [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #3521227 - 12/19/04 06:32 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Well,

I don't like shoulds, they run like obligations I don't think you should anything you don't want, care or are not inspired too do or have no reason for. If you have asked yourself those questions you posted in the above and answered them to you satifaction then for you, the book is closed on them.

Perhaps it will open again and someday new chapters will be written in.

Perhaps someday, you will meet a woman who writes you a love letter, about her feelings for you and your relationship and just maybe, you won't respond by telling her it is subpar because it is filled with the romance of the dance of life and you have closed the book on that. Maybe the book will get reopenned.

Perhaps, one day you will have a daughter, and when she is 6, she will write a 7 sentence story about an adventure she took to the moon with you. Just maybe, you won't respond by telling her that the story is subpar because you have closed the book on reading and qualifying dreams and adventures of the spirit as worthwhile of your time.

I do have one question for you though. If you beleive in life after death, what is it you think we take with us?


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Topic. and... aliens, sure [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3521288 - 12/19/04 06:49 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Oh, the book isn't shut on the subject obviously as things are always being written. So far as published authors, I've simply not found any female authors worth their reputations.

I mean seriously.. the Bronte sisters? Emily Dickinson? Sylvia Plath?

A love letter or a note from a daughter is on a totally seperate set of rules.

Maybe a better phrasing of my opinion on female authors would have rather than saying they're poor, instead say that I believe them to be overrated.. perhaps a half inch more accurate but definately, I would think, a mile less incendiary.

I've read worse. It's called Walden, but that's another story for another time.. for all the accolades women authors have garnered for themselves, when I actually got down into it and checked out the books that were supposed to be good, the most well-spoken-of women authors.. I found that they were all just blah. Very blah.


--------------------
i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.


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