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OfflineZekebomb
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Registered: 08/24/03
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music as distinct from other arts
    #3512185 - 12/17/04 04:10 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

so the neat thing about music as distinct from other arts (for example painting, poetry) is the direct relation it bears with time.

for example, you can look at a painting starting from any corner of it you wish, and stand closer or further away, and take 30 seconds or 3 hours, and flip it to the right or left or upside down, and perceive its elements in any order you wish.

In reading a poem, the order in with which the elements are dealt is now fixed, but you can read slow or fast, and flip back to read part again, and so forth.

a piece of music starts with one note, and then that note is always replaced by the second note, and so on all through the piece, which lasts for a certain amount of time. If you take a record and play it at a different speed from what was intended, the song you listen to elicits a different emotional response from the song at normal speed. the speed at which those notes follow one another is vital to the music's identity (for I'm assuming music's purpose is to elicit emotional responses, and that the flavour of emotions elicited identifies the music).

the effect of music is a cumulative one, and a contextual one, the context of any note in a piece being created by all the other notes on either side, some of which you've heard already (in the past) and some you haven't yet (future). thus each piece of music is its own universe, and it also inhabits that universe--it creates the laws by which it then abides.

also interesting to note that we have the greatest degree of control over our ingestion of paintings and the least over that of music. (And even less over that of film, I'd venture.) please discuss:


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InvisibleDirtMcgirt
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Re: music as distinct from other arts [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3512234 - 12/17/04 04:50 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Interesting post. I pretty much agree with you up until:

Quote:


also interesting to note that we have the greatest degree of control over our ingestion of paintings and the least over that of music. (And even less over that of film, I'd venture.) please discuss:




I'm assuming your assumption of control of consumption has to do with music's relation to time, but I disagree. Time has little to do with it(consumption). It is merely an basic element of music (as you have layed out already) just as metaphors are in literature and colors in painting. As in any form of art, consumption is in of itself %100 internal. A painting means one thing to one person and another thing to another. One chooses to place meaning/inspiration/focus on one element and another can on another element. This can even span outside the artwork and into the artist but that is deviating from my point. This is the same in music. Each element can affect a different person a different way. One can find the lyrics most inspiring or the beat etc- and particular elements influence each person different and individually. One may find the sum of these elements spiritual and another uplifting and another sad and another completely abrasive. A testament to this is the many form of musical taste. As in all art forms, the interpretation or emotional response is up to the reader/listener/viewer-not the artist. So our degree of control is the same in any form of art or creative expression.

Question:DO you believe music's reliance on a single sense(hearing)is a benefit or disadvantage to it and the emotional response it illicits? Especially in relation to literature(which relies on no senses) or film (which relies on multiple senses)..


--------------------
"And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."


Edited by DirtMcgirt (12/17/04 04:58 AM)


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Offlinedelta9
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Re: music as distinct from other arts [Re: DirtMcgirt]
    #3513077 - 12/17/04 12:19 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I'll further dissent and say that no art is fully distinct from the others... All are creations from within, outlets of your soul and imagination.

Time and timing comes into play in many arts... And where exactly does lyrical poetry and verse meant to go to music fit in your categorizations?


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delta9


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Offlinegotmagog
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Re: music as distinct from other arts [Re: delta9]
    #3513798 - 12/17/04 03:31 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

A good post, music really is somehow different. I myself recently watch less movies and listen more to music, it really inspires me.

I think that what makes music unique is that it is dynamic , unlike static art like paintings. In math "dynamic" is defined exactly like that - depending on time. So the way your brain interprets music is dynamic - how u feel the next moment of the sound depends also what transition it makes from the previous. Music visualizations play with static picture dynamically, and the effect can be trans-like. when i listen to music a nice Winamp visualization can be like a next layer to the already excellent music  :thumbup:

Movie are also partially dynamic, i think that they are a mix of static elements(settings) and dynamic ones, like plot (a favorite movie commentary is "dynamic plot"), but i think that sounds and rhytm have more power as dynamic elements that human conversations

Artificial neural network models exist for dynamic systems, but they are immensely more difficult and less studied than the static systems in math. Likewise, maybe researchers will first determine how people respond to static media like paintings, and only later will human's response to more complex art like music be understood completely.


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: music as distinct from other arts [Re: DirtMcgirt]
    #3514089 - 12/17/04 04:45 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

cool replies y'all. to choose one:

Quote:

DirtMcgirt said:
I'm assuming your assumption of control of consumption has to do with music's relation to time, but I disagree. Time has little to do with it(consumption).




well... I think it has maybe more to do with the fact that you can close your eyes but not your ears. even in a film (and here I take back, at least part way, what I said at the end of my first post), you can close your eyes if you don't want to watch the murder scene, but you can't help but listen to the gun shots.


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: music as distinct from other arts [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3514169 - 12/17/04 05:03 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

and I'd further add, while I have time, that music is no more different from other arts than they are from each other... just that it's differently different. if that actually makes any sense to you, good on ya.


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InvisibleDirtMcgirt
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Re: music as distinct from other arts [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3518357 - 12/18/04 10:52 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

differently different

this led me to consider...

Music is considered the universal language and I think this has to do with time in the way you speak of it. Their is an underlying mathematics to music (the other "universal language") in of a particular music's beat. Music consists of one or multiple instruments in sync with this beat. This is why music, IMO, transposes all cultures better than other art.


--------------------
"And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."


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OfflineZekebomb
sociophagus

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 1,164
Loc: BC province
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: music as distinct from other arts [Re: DirtMcgirt]
    #3522349 - 12/19/04 11:19 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DirtMcgirt said:music, IMO, transposes all cultures better than other art.




did you mean to write 'transposes'? but yeah, I think I agree with you.

by the way, I started this exact same thread over at www.homerecording.com/bbs, and no one replied. well, I got replies, but things like "you assume a lot" with no follow-up, and then people comparing avatars and stuff. no one actually addressed my post. which is weird, you'd think a bunch of people all into home recording would have strong enough opinions on the nature of music as an art form among other art forms that they'd either agree or disagree with me, and tell me about it. that's why shroomery.org is the best ever.


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