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OfflineAlan
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Registered: 02/17/04
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Substitute for oyster shell?
    #3507823 - 12/16/04 10:14 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

can this be used instead of crushed oyster shell. cant find it here.

http://www.petco.com/product_info.asp?fa...p;ct2=&ct3=


Description
T-Rex Calci-Sand is a fine granular calciferous sand specially prepared to be the ideal reptile cage substrate for snakes, lizards, tortoises, and turtles.
T-Rex Calci-Sand is the only substrate for reptiles designed to be not only ingestible, but digestible when swallowed. Many reptiles freely eat particles of sand and other substrates in an effort to gain the calcium that they require. T-Rex Calci-Sand allows this process to occur naturally in the vivarium.

T-Rex Calci-Sand (being a mineral) is safe in direct contact with heating elements. It conducts heat well and is suitable for use with heat mats or cables buried under it to a shallow depth. It does not harbor mites nor the growth of molds or fungus.

T-Rex Calci-Sand makes spot cleaning both easy and accurate. It clumps readily to wet waste material, drying it and preventing it from being spread.

All colors are created with FDA approved natural food colorants.

Technical Information


Directions For Use: The depth of T-Rex Calci-Sand used will depend upon the amount needed for humidity control, modeling hills and valleys, and whether the inhabitant likes to dig or not. Generally a depth of one to two inches will be sufficient. A deeper covering will hold moisture longer and will require less maintenance. It is recommended that the Calci-Sand is spot cleaned daily, or as necessary, and completely replaced every six months.


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Invisibletripndicular
My Minds Eye IsRhizomorphic

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 2,791
Loc: Bowels of HELL
Re: Substitute for oyster shell? [Re: Alan]
    #3507865 - 12/16/04 10:34 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

No , I dont believe it will buffer ph at all , for one it does not dissolve easily .And it is just plain old calcium , not calc carbonate .
Check with any pet shopes or feed and grain places that specialize in birds , especially lg parrots , they should have crushed oyster shell


--------------------
Any information I give is not intended to aide you in the production of potentialy illegal substances !None of my exp comes from growing illegal varities , so take it as you will .
So with that said here is our mission statement .

Then the priest fell into a trance or swoon,& said unto the Queen of heaven ; Write unto us the ordeals; write unto us the rituals; write unto us the law !


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: Substitute for oyster shell? [Re: tripndicular]
    #3509882 - 12/16/04 07:00 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Chalk is also a substitute for calcium carbonate/oyster shells. As are eggshells. I'm not sure if that product will work or not..


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Offlinephantasm
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Registered: 09/10/04
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Re: Substitute for oyster shell? [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3510101 - 12/16/04 07:40 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

limestone fixes pH perfectly

-mike


--------------------
Only God Grows Amanita Muscaria


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OfflineMycoJunkie
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Registered: 11/04/04
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Re: Substitute for oyster shell? [Re: phantasm]
    #3510151 - 12/16/04 07:48 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Limestone = Calcium Carbonate = Substitute for hydrated lime.

Ask for Calcium carbonate or crushed limestone. Emphasis on lime.


--------------------
:cussing::whip:


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Substitute for oyster shell? [Re: MycoJunkie]
    #3510233 - 12/16/04 08:04 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Hydrated lime is different then limestone. Limestone you can be more liberal with..hydrated lime however you must be very carefull with.

"In theory one should add 2/3 hydrated lime compared to the amount of limestone(calcium carbonate)needed.
The problem is that you have to add exactly the right amount if you use hydrated lime. If you add too much, the pH will go towards 13.
If you use limestone, the pH can't go above 8, despite the amount used.
To prevent this make sure to measure the pH of the casing material, it shouldn't go over 8.

Calcium carbonate is the name of a chemical substance , CaCO3.
Ground oyster shells are a natural product mainly containing CaCO3, along with other minor ingredients.
Limestone is a sediment mineral composed mainly of calcium carbonate, very similar to oyster shells.
Chalk (Blackboard chalk is NOT made of chalk!) is a form of calcium carbonate, having the same chemical composition as ground calcium carbonate, limestone, marble, and precipitated calcium carbonate.

Horticultural lime, also called hydrated lime or Ca(OH)2 is produced by adding water to CaO.

Quick lime is CaO, a very aggressive substance. It is produced from CaCO3 containing limestone or shellsand by heating it to 1200?C, hereby CO2 is driven off the CaCO3 molecule, leaving CaO.

The material that is used in the mushroom industry as a casing ingredient is always some form of calcium carbonate, CaCO3: either ground chalk, ground limestone or ground shellsand."


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Offlinespliffmasta
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Registered: 10/20/04
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Re: Substitute for oyster shell? [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3512577 - 12/17/04 09:30 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Are egg shells a last resort if you can't find anything or are they ok to use?


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OfflineAlan
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Registered: 02/17/04
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Re: Substitute for oyster shell? [Re: spliffmasta]
    #3513188 - 12/17/04 12:49 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

the bag does say "Pure Natural calcium carbonate substrate"


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Offlinenoodles
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Registered: 12/09/04
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Re: Substitute for oyster shell? [Re: Alan]
    #3514154 - 12/17/04 05:01 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

egg shells are perfect, use them


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Invisiblemadsickpenguin
newbie
Registered: 08/29/04
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Re: Substitute for oyster shell? [Re: noodles]
    #3514216 - 12/17/04 05:14 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Can you juse regular egg shells? If so how would you clean them?


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OfflineLun4e
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Re: Substitute for oyster shell? [Re: madsickpenguin]
    #3516364 - 12/18/04 07:29 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Nice work scatman, glad to see someone else pays attention in chemistry class.

CaCO3 works as both a base and a buffer. It will neutralize acids in the solution, as it is a base. However, it will also cause it to take a lot more acid or base to push the pH of the buffered solution through a specific pH range (CaCO3 has a range over which P. Cubensis grows best)).

This means that to get the pH out of this range, you will have to add a lot of acid or base before the buffer is used up and pH begins to change rapidly with added acid or base. This gives you a large margin for error (you cant accidentally over basify the solution with CaCO3, and any small acid/base discrepencies will not effect you greatly).

Hydrated lime is only a base. It will aggressively raise the pH of your casing, and there is a VERY small margin for error (get a measurement wrong, and your casing is basic beyond survivability by mycelium).

I am pretty high right now, but I know that what's wrote here is correct. Please let me know if it doesn't make sense and if you would like any kind of clarification.

:stoned:

EDIT: Paragraphs


--------------------
How to make your 50/50 casing 50/50+ with only eggshells:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=6519162&page=0&vc=#Post6519162


Edited by Lun4e (12/18/04 07:34 AM)


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Invisibleagar
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Re: Substitute for oyster shell? [Re: Alan]
    #3516365 - 12/18/04 07:45 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)


:thumbup: :thumbup:

If you use the hydrated lime below:
You better have a GOOD ph test probe.
This stuff will burn your skin off.


--------------------


Edited by agar (12/18/04 08:44 AM)


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Invisibletripndicular
My Minds Eye IsRhizomorphic

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 2,791
Loc: Bowels of HELL
Re: Substitute for oyster shell? [Re: agar]
    #3516833 - 12/18/04 12:21 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

This may sound kinda weird and deffinetly newbish , but has anyone in a "pinch" ever tried using some baking soda as a buffering agent , hell it works for acid indigestion  :tongue:


OOPPPSSS should delete post , but good topic for all to view . Just did a search , it does say good for maintaining ph but also mentioned being used as a natural "fungicide" so that answers my dumbass queston  :wink: I would imagine it to be harmful to mush teks .

Always something to learn  :wink: :thumbup:


--------------------
Any information I give is not intended to aide you in the production of potentialy illegal substances !None of my exp comes from growing illegal varities , so take it as you will .
So with that said here is our mission statement .

Then the priest fell into a trance or swoon,& said unto the Queen of heaven ; Write unto us the ordeals; write unto us the rituals; write unto us the law !


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OfflineShaTipote37
Nestled IntoEternity
Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 19
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
Re: Substitute for oyster shell? [Re: tripndicular]
    #7835302 - 01/05/08 02:14 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

The type of Calcium Sand I purchased does mention on the bag that it is pure untreated Calcium Carbonate that has been reduced to sand form to mimic the desert floor. It is meant to prompt reptiles to eat it as they would in nature as a source of Calcium.

I haven't found anyone who has mentioned that this works well as a buffer, but I've purchased the most natural and finely granular type I could find by All Living Things at the local pet store. I'm going to mix it into some MGMC and test it's PH level against a control without the Calcium Sand.

I did some research and have further information posted about it if anyone is interested. Unfortunately I am not an authority on the subject, but my hope is my common sense backed by some solid experimental proof will get some answers! :smile:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7835270&page=0&vc=1&PHPSESSID=#Post7835270


Edited by ShaTipote37 (01/05/08 02:20 PM)


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OfflineShaTipote37
Nestled IntoEternity
Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 19
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
Re: Substitute for oyster shell? [Re: ShaTipote37]
    #7835826 - 01/05/08 04:22 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Here are the results:

The first test (the control - MGMC as is) registered as acidic (6.0).
The second test with added Calcium Sand (roughly 10%) registered as neutral (7.0).
The third test with Calcium Sand and Activated Carbon registered as Alkaline (7.5); I added equal parts activated carbon and calcium sand (10% each).

It does augment the PH. I believe it will do well as a buffer.

-Sha


Edited by ShaTipote37 (01/05/08 05:10 PM)


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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
Bleeding HeartLiberal


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Re: Substitute for oyster shell? [Re: scatmanrav]
    #7835849 - 01/05/08 04:29 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

scatmanrav said:
Hydrated lime is different then limestone. Limestone you can be more liberal with..hydrated lime however you must be very carefull with.

"In theory one should add 2/3 hydrated lime compared to the amount of limestone(calcium carbonate)needed.
The problem is that you have to add exactly the right amount if you use hydrated lime. If you add too much, the pH will go towards 13.
If you use limestone, the pH can't go above 8, despite the amount used.
To prevent this make sure to measure the pH of the casing material, it shouldn't go over 8.

Calcium carbonate is the name of a chemical substance , CaCO3.
Ground oyster shells are a natural product mainly containing CaCO3, along with other minor ingredients.
Limestone is a sediment mineral composed mainly of calcium carbonate, very similar to oyster shells.
Chalk (Blackboard chalk is NOT made of chalk!) is a form of calcium carbonate, having the same chemical composition as ground calcium carbonate, limestone, marble, and precipitated calcium carbonate.

Horticultural lime, also called hydrated lime or Ca(OH)2 is produced by adding water to CaO.

Quick lime is CaO, a very aggressive substance. It is produced from CaCO3 containing limestone or shellsand by heating it to 1200?C, hereby CO2 is driven off the CaCO3 molecule, leaving CaO.

The material that is used in the mushroom industry as a casing ingredient is always some form of calcium carbonate, CaCO3: either ground chalk, ground limestone or ground shellsand."




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OfflineNibin
Getting there
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Re: Substitute for oyster shell? [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7838210 - 01/06/08 06:32 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Captain Cubensis, the previous poster bumped an old thread to add perfectly good, new information to the discussion.

You respond by just quoting what has already been said.

What is wrong with you today?


--------------------
Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy


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