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Anonymous
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 Re: What About the Religious Left?  [Re: Xlea321]
#3512813 - 12/17/04 09:02 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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again, if people are concerned with getting diseases from other people, they will voluntarily offer to help pay for medical expenses. if they aren't, they won't.
do you believe that treatment for all medical conditions should be subsidized, or just contagious diseases?
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 newuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
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Re: What About the Religious Left? [Re: ]
#3512823 - 12/17/04 09:05 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Just as "initiation of force" is not a universally definable term I don't believe exactly what and what should not be covered by universal health care can be determined by a single person. It is up to society to come to an agreement on what should be covered.
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Anonymous
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Re: What About the Religious Left? [Re: newuser1492]
#3512898 - 12/17/04 09:30 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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It is up to society to come to an agreement on what should be covered.
and some people will be forced to provide medical care to others when they would rather not.
will this be a federal program? why should a man in washington state have to pay for a west virginian's lung cancer treatments? by what right can he be required to do that? for that matter, why should a guy living in seattle have to pay for a girl living in spokane's eyeglasses?
you know that some people are philosophically opposed to certain medical practices? will people who are opposed to invasive surgery or blood transfusions be forced to subsidize these practices?
what we are getting to here is the exact point of the article at the top of this thread. do you care about rights? if so, back off from forcing other people to do what you think they should do. if not, you can't really attack the conservative christian agenda on the grounds that they are violating people's rights. leftists would do the same.
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: What About the Religious Left? [Re: ]
#3512933 - 12/17/04 09:43 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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again, if people are concerned with getting diseases from other people, they will voluntarily offer to help pay for medical expenses
And if there isn't enough money to do so?
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: What About the Religious Left? [Re: ]
#3512962 - 12/17/04 09:50 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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and some people will be forced to provide medical care to others when they would rather not.
If some people are so stupid they wish to risk dying of a deadly disease every time they step out of the house then they probably arn't intelligent enough to be making decisions for themselves. I do not wish to contract Typhus because you don't want to pay tax. Sorry.
if so, back off from forcing other people to do what you think they should do.
No-ones forcing me to do it mush. And clearly only you and a handful of hideously right-wing folk feel they are. Otherwise a party would form tomorrow saying "We will abolish tax's tomorrow" and win the next election. Society has socialised healthcare because it is the most effective way of creating a healthy, disease free society.
if not, you can't really attack the conservative christian agenda on the grounds that they are violating people's rights.
Of course you can. If you are going out slaughtering doctors who perform perfectly legal abortions arn't you violating their rights?
leftists would do the same.
I have yet to hear of a leftist killing doctors for performing abortions.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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 Tao
Village Genius
Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: What About the Religious Left? [Re: ]
#3512981 - 12/17/04 09:55 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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most all the arguments you're currently making can be made against a military/police force. some will want a small force, others a large one (like now for example i think the military is monstrously too big and wasting my tax payer money). thats an inevitable part of any government, some will have to be governed.
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Magash's Grain Tek + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs 
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newuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
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Re: What About the Religious Left? [Re: Xlea321]
#3512991 - 12/17/04 09:57 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Every person would be "forced" to pay taxes for universal health care. No individual person would be required to partake in any surgery he felt went against his morals.
Quote:
if so, back off from forcing other people to do what you think they should do. if not, you can't really attack the conservative christian agenda on the grounds that they are violating people's rights. leftists would do the same.
The Christian agenda is based on arbitrary morals whereas health care is based on fundamental human life requirements. To represent the extremes does not provide a valid case. I have asked on this message board if Libertarians feel individuals should be allowed to own nuclear missiles. Some have felt that they should in order to uphold personal freedoms. If an individual living next to me owned a nuclear missile I would feel threatened and thus would feel that his owning a nuclear missile should be considered "initiation of force". Even Libertarians have to come to an agreement on what constitutes "initiation of force". In the same vein society needs to come to an agreement on what is best for society.
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AlreadyOne
Stranger
Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1
Last seen: 19 years, 3 months
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Re: What About the Religious Left? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#3526837 - 12/21/04 06:52 AM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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TykeAnanda
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 9
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 1:44 pm Post subject: Interesting enough, but....
I can enjoy splitting a hair or two myself from time to time (who doesn't) BUT what I've noticed is that you can't really convince anyone of anything. The most impressive argument the universe has concocted to point out to each and every ego that there is an ever larger context of relatedness/conectedness to discover, open up to, merge into, re-imerge AS.... is EXPERIENCE itself.
Some guy asking (at that shroomery thread) what are the logical arguments for why an enlightened society would/should treat its less fortunate, healthy, capable, etc. people with care, dignity and support is not so much sincerely asking a question as he is confessing his entrancedness, lostness, separation, pain, confusion, dissociation, etc.
There is no way around it: expand and you discover that you, your very deeper self, ARE what/who/where you were previously experiencing as "other". Expand and to the degree that you transcend the illusion of ego-I love, empathy, service, empathy, cooperativness, tollerance, etc...are discovered to be the natural verbs of the (semi)"noun" of your own presence.
....or at least that's how it feels to me and the tribe i fly with.
Peace.
_________________
W R 1.
Our plants and fungi are Great and Sacred means....Lights, if you will, on our Paths whether traveling "Omward" or "Outward bound".
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