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Amazon Shop: Herb Grinder, San Pedro

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OfflineGNIOM1498
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San Pedro separation of Mescalin new idea?
    #3506297 - 12/15/04 10:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

OK I am new to separating mescalin from San Pedro and I wanted a cheap and effective way to know exactly how much I'm taking and not get the infamous stomach problems that I hear so much about. So I can with my own proceedure. sorry this is so long
Steps proceed in the following
1) Cut fresh Cactus(San Pedro) into star shapes. (whatever amount you want)
2) Dry Cactus in oven below 180 C or 356 Fahrenheit because that is Mescalin Boiling Point. To be safe because of ovens are really not that accurate in Temp. go with 121 C or 250 Fahrenheit.
3) Grind up (dried) cactus in blender. I would use a coffee grinder because it will most likely be able to grind the cactus into a finer powder.
4)(Now this step I changed) Take Ever-clear which is readily available at liquor stores and mix it with the cactus powder. Let this set in a enclosed glass container for maybe a day or 2 or for even a week if you want to get all of it out. Mix it up once or twice a day to increase the separation of mescaline from the powder. I want to use ever-clear because mescalin dissolves in alcohol and alcohol evaporates very easily when you put on fan on it.
5) After the mixture has sat for awhile take the mixture and run it through a coffee filter i will probably just buy a coffee make and destroy the heating coil. Now i would take the powder which is in the coffee filter paper and add more ever-clear in attempts to get more mescalin out of it. or maybe put it back into a container and repeat step 4 again.
6) After you complete this step put this solution into a open container and point a fan directly on to the solution so it creates ripples in the liquid. Let sit for a while, how long i don't know but until all the alcohol is evaporated now since ever-clear is 5% water you will have that lift in there. Which probably can be easily ingested if you know how potent your cactus is but if not you could boil the water off (making sure your just above 100 C because you don't want to boil the mescalin.) after this is done hopefully you will be left with just mescaline and maybe other alkaloids.
The whole point of this is because I believe this would be cheap, relatively fast, easily to ingest and you will know with more precision on how much to take. Furthermore rumor on the street is that when you use lemon juice (citric acid) (acetate) or other acids you change the molecular weight of Mescaline which will actually cause it to become weaker and thus have to ingest more.(rumor) I'm not to sure of the validity of that claim.

What do you think? will this work? Please give me some input I might be missing something about mescaline but I believe that i have done my homework correctly.


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OfflineLegoulash
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Re: San Pedro separation of Mescalin new idea? [Re: GNIOM1498]
    #3506533 - 12/15/04 11:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Id just let the cactus dry at room tempature... but im never in a hurry to dry cactus so whatever..

Id also be curious of how much gunk would be left after teh evaporation.. Im guessing alot.


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OfflineBorgFace
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Re: San Pedro separation of Mescalin new idea? [Re: GNIOM1498]
    #3506660 - 12/16/04 12:16 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What you're after is mjshroomer's San Pedro preparation thread.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...fd6c831db4372b0

Best technique I've ever tried; strong extract, minimal nausea.


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OfflineGNIOM1498
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Re: San Pedro separation of Mescalin new idea? [Re: Legoulash]
    #3507070 - 12/16/04 01:48 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

just real quick why would there be gunk left over? i mean i know the stuff is real sticky but if you filter it out maybe through several different filters would there be gunk left?  The whole point is to get the Mescaline or other main alkaloids to dissolve into the alcohol so it can easily pass through a coffee filter. So im guessing it would really be hard to have any gunk left(cactus fiber if im correct) after the evaporation just what ever dissolves in alcohol(mescalin).  Unless a lot of useless crap does disolve in alcohol but i highly doubt that. :rockon: :rockon:


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Re: San Pedro separation of Mescalin new idea? [Re: GNIOM1498]
    #3507230 - 12/16/04 02:39 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I believe a lot of useless crap does disolve in the alcohol.


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Offlinerocknliam
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Re: San Pedro separation of Mescalin new idea? [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #3507255 - 12/16/04 02:47 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I have heard of mescaline breaking down before it reaches boiling point, remember boiling point and degredation points are different. And, i would imagine there are other chems in the cactus that would also be alcohol soluble.


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Offlineesin
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Re: San Pedro separation of Mescalin new idea? [Re: GNIOM1498]
    #3507495 - 12/16/04 05:37 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Alcohol extractions on plants usually yield gunk b/c of soluble fats and waxes.
You can be sure alcohol will dissolve A LOT of crap.

Gunk is not cactus fiber, it's non-solid matter that dissolves in the alcohol and goes through the filter just like the mesc.

That said, one shroomerite 'Ekstaza' uses a tek similar to that one with good results. As far as i understood one dose is a tablespoon of the extract.

If you want to complicate a little you can also run an A/B on it and end up with pretty pure white crystals.


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: San Pedro separation of Mescalin new idea? [Re: esin]
    #3507550 - 12/16/04 06:50 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

This is all very true, but does it apply to different kinds of alcohol, say, denatured ethanol & methanol, isopropyl, etc?


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OfflineAhronZombi
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Re: San Pedro separation of Mescalin new idea? [Re: GNIOM1498]
    #3507560 - 12/16/04 07:12 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

GNIOM1498 said:
just real quick why would there be gunk left over? i mean i know the stuff is real sticky but if you filter it out maybe through several different filters would there be gunk left?  The whole point is to get the Mescaline or other main alkaloids to dissolve into the alcohol so it can easily pass through a coffee filter. So im guessing it would really be hard to have any gunk left(cactus fiber if im correct) after the evaporation just what ever dissolves in alcohol(mescalin).  Unless a lot of useless crap does disolve in alcohol but i highly doubt that. :rockon: :rockon:


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Offlineesin
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Re: San Pedro separation of Mescalin new idea? [Re: dblaney]
    #3507698 - 12/16/04 09:00 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'm sure every different alcohol has different solubilities, and some may be more selective than others.

But i still doubt you can get a solid extract using alcohol. Everytime i used ethanol, methanol or isopropanol to extract plant (or fungal) matter the resulting product was always a goo. Not that goo is bad, it's just not practical to handle and all that. And it's obviously uglier than a pile of crystal.

There's also a possibility that alcohol also extracts some of the emetics in the cactus, which would be avoided with an alkaloid extarction.

IMHO extracting relatively pure alkaloid out of cactus juice isn't that harder or more complicated than doing an alcohol extract. The only pain in the neck that alcohol will spare you from is the phase separations.


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Offlinenamaste
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Re: San Pedro separation of Mescalin new idea? [Re: GNIOM1498]
    #3508250 - 12/16/04 12:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I have never done either, but this may be of interest to you.


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: San Pedro separation of Mescalin new idea? [Re: namaste]
    #3509471 - 12/16/04 05:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, what worries me is the potential for a resulting goo or ooze of some sort. However the everclear method sounds like it yields good results...so I'm wondering about other types of alcohol. Logically they would have the same result, but I think I've also heard about caustic oils resulting. And yes, I have posted this question before but it was never answered to my satisfaction, lol.


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But makes for the heaviest sword"
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Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

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OfflineGr0wer
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Re: San Pedro separation of Mescalin new idea? [Re: dblaney]
    #3510784 - 12/16/04 10:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You'd need to use the A/B meathod simmilar to the link namaste gave. Then you'll get near pure mesc powder and could even press or pack some pills! :laugh:


Edited by Gr0wer (12/16/04 10:14 PM)


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Offlineesin
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Re: San Pedro separation of Mescalin new idea? [Re: dblaney]
    #3512675 - 12/17/04 10:13 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Other alcohols won't yield any caustic product. Why are you concerned with this?

Mescaline freebase being a caustic oil? Well i think that means it's just alkaline, not actually corrosive or irritant like caustic soda. Either way mescaline freebase oil will quickly react with CO2 in the air forming mescaline carbonate.

And even if it didn't, your stomach acids would quickly neutralize it and turn it to the HCl salt.

Be careful with IPA and especially methanol. If you use these please make sure ALL of the alcohol has evaporated from your product. Which might be difficult because it will be gunky. I'd personally use everclear.

If you want powder or crystal you have to perform a/b on it like grower said.
Like i said, it's not that complicated if you start with mjshroomers cactus tea.
As simple as basifying that tea and extracting from the tea with toluene or xylenes. Than you can either evaporate (yield - freebase oil that will turn to carbonate powder overnight) or salt out with dilute HCl (yield - crystaline HCl salts).


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Offlineneuro
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Re: San Pedro separation of Mescalin new idea? [Re: GNIOM1498]
    #3512838 - 12/17/04 11:11 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

>>OK I am new to separating mescalin from San Pedro and I wanted a cheap and effective way to know exactly how much I'm taking and not get the infamous stomach problems that I hear so much about.

The most effective way without knowing exactly the amount of mescaline that's in a specimen is to use the standard dosage curve for pachanoi that everyone suggests, 14 inches or so, whatever the current acceptable fad is with that, THEN do an extraction on that amount of cactus, then you don't have to worry about separating dosages later.




>>2) Dry Cactus in oven below 180 C or 356 Fahrenheit because that is Mescalin Boiling Point. To be safe because of ovens are really not that accurate in Temp. go with 121 C or 250 Fahrenheit.

While mescaline is a relatively stable hallucinogen and organic compound at that. Defining heating temperatures based on boiling points is not really good. Most organic compounds will break down before they even melt, let alone boil. Lucky for our purposes we can atleast do a melting point test on mescaline and not have it break down. But boiling it as pure mescaline surely won't happen, it'll break down. I know this is nit-picky, but if we're gonna talk chemistry here, lets get things straight and forward for all to understand.

For the temp to dry the cactus i wouldn't set the oven any higher than 150 degrees with the door open, simply because it's not needed.




>>4)(Now this step I changed) Take Ever-clear which is readily available at liquor stores and mix it with the cactus powder. Let this set in a enclosed glass container for maybe a day or 2 or for even a week if you want to get all of it out.

I don't know the craze with these long masceration times. But the cactus gunk can have alkaloids and gunk extracted from it in just a short few hours. I'd pour the alcohol over my powder, heat it slightly and stir it you can even almost boil the alcohol and be fine, but then you'll be losing alcohol over time, so less solvent for the amount of solute. I'd probaby heat and stir my masceration mix several times and collect all the alcohol from each time and combine it to a large volume.




>>After the mixture has sat for awhile take the mixture and run it through a coffee filter i will probably just buy a coffee make and destroy the heating coil. Now i would take the powder which is in the coffee filter paper and add more ever-clear in attempts to get more mescalin out of it. or maybe put it back into a container and repeat step 4 again.


If you buy a coffee maker it will probably break on the first try, you'll clog the shit out of your maker. Just setup a simple funnel with paper in it and let it drip through. For faster action allow the bottom of the funnel to touch the side of your vessel to create a route for the alcohol to run down.



>>6) After you complete this step put this solution into a open container and point a fan directly on to the solution so it creates ripples in the liquid. Let sit for a while, how long i don't know but until all the alcohol is evaporated now since ever-clear is 5% water you will have that lift in there. Which probably can be easily ingested if you know how potent your cactus is but if not you could boil the water off (making sure your just above 100 C because you don't want to boil the mescalin.) after this is done hopefully you will be left with just mescaline and maybe other alkaloids.


Don't boil off the water, just let it evaporate. There won't be enough there to boil anyway. Also forget about this mescaline boiling point stuff. It's not important for our purposes.

What will be left will be a thick green crud that contains alkaloids (including mescaline) and cactus fats and waxes, as EtOH is a good solvent and picks lots of things out of the cactus. You will not have crystal, more likely a slimey gooey crud.

If you're looking for more pure crystaline alkaloids you'll want to do an acid base extraction. There's quite a few teks, they're not hard and all pretty much the same, since A/B is more of a principle now than a patented innovative technique (which is why i'm bored of all these tek retypes, principles are the same and stardard throughout if you know your chem).




>>Furthermore rumor on the street is that when you use lemon juice (citric acid) (acetate) or other acids you change the molecular weight of Mescaline which will actually cause it to become weaker and thus have to ingest more.(rumor) I'm not to sure of the validity of that claim.

While this is true to some point, it's misstated big time. Changing the salt form of your mesacline won't make it less potent per se.

600mg of mescaline sulfate will not be as strong as 600mg of mescaline hydrochloride.

This because of the difference in weights of the acid function that's coupled to make the salt. SO4 vs HCl. Therefore MescalineSO4 is 11% heavier than MescalineHCl. So by weight alone Mescaline HCl is more potent than MescalineSO4; there's simply more mescaline molecules in 600mg of the HCl salt than the SO4 salt. And that's the key here, the number of molecules, not the total weight.

HOWEVER!, since we're using a certain amount of cactus that contains a certain amount of mescaline. Say it has (this is a way conservative #, but we'll keep it small to not tax the brain), 500 molecules of mescaline it.

If we use HCl to do an extraction we'll get 500 molecules of Mescaline HCl (say we do a 100% efficient extraction), if we use H2SO4 (sulfuric acid) to do the extraction we'll get 500 molecules of MescalineSO4. Our two products will have different weights, but will be equally as potent, due to the number of molecules.


Thus, the statement that using citric acid or any other acid in an extraction will cause a weaker product is not true in our case. Because we're concerned with the number of mescaline molecules we can get, not the weight.

For those of you with chem knowledge, this is analogous to avagadro's number. 35.5g of Cl has the same amount of molecules as 16g of O2 (assuming i got my molecular weights right off the top of my head). The weights are different, but the # of molecules are the same. And that's what's important when we're speaking about drugs, because there is a relationship between molecules and the receptors. Not the weight and the receptor.

Hope this was clear.


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Offlineneuro
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Re: San Pedro separation of Mescalin new idea? [Re: dblaney]
    #3512848 - 12/17/04 11:15 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

>>Logically they would have the same result, but I think I've also heard about caustic oils resulting. And yes, I have posted this question before but it was never answered to my satisfaction, lol.

I've never heard about the result of a caustic oil. The only way for this to happen is if there is some sort of chemical reaction between a different alcohol and the alkaloids. Since the alcohols behind EtOH and MeOH get longer and longer chains or more bulky parts like IPA, the chance of a reaction occuring is slim. And the greatest chance would be with the EtOH or MeOH. However i've not seen caustic oils produced.

I also don't think mescaline freebase would be an oil. Just because something is a freebase doesn't mean it has to automatically be an oil.


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Re: San Pedro separation of Mescalin new idea? [Re: neuro]
    #3516174 - 12/18/04 04:26 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

He's getting the caustic oil idea from murple's guide here: http://www.erowid.org/plants/cacti/cacti_chemistry2.shtml which says "This would leave behind mescaline (and the other alkaloids) in free base form, which is an oil. This is not recommended however, as mescaline oil is highly caustic and it would burn your skin to touch it." Even if you were to go about making mescaline free base it won't remain as such. It can't exist in the atmosphere for long. Mescaline is such a strong base that it will scavenge CO2 from the air and form mescaline carbonate.


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: San Pedro separation of Mescalin new idea? [Re: Maverik]
    #3517109 - 12/18/04 02:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Mescaline Carbonate...it would be interesting to find out if it is subjectively any different. By my calculations, 100mg of Mescaline Sulfate is equivalent to either 97.5mg or 86.7mg of Mescaline Carbonate (shows how well I remember my basic chem.) This would make it either a little more or a little less potent than Mescaline HCl, of which 89mg is equivalent to 100mg of Mescaline Sulfate.

Regardless, I am a bit skeptical to try this...don't know why however.


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"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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Re: San Pedro separation of Mescalin new idea? [Re: Maverik]
    #3522707 - 12/20/04 01:01 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It could be an oil, I suppose murple looked that up. But i'm skeptical about the basicity of it. He could certainly be right, but i'm skeptical because of it's conjugation, I don't think it'd be nearly as strong a base as ethylamine alone would be. There'd be some electron funneling through hyperconjugation, but not normal conjugation. I don't think it's as super caustic as he said. And however it wouldn't exist even if it would, it'd decompose so fast like he said.


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Re: San Pedro separation of Mescalin new idea? [Re: GNIOM1498]
    #23645833 - 09/14/16 11:11 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I do believe that I read in PIKAL that leaving the extraction in an acidic solution will "break down" the mescaline- so one would need to basify it. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


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Amazon Shop: Herb Grinder, San Pedro

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