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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineAreoZephin
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Registered: 12/11/04
Posts: 142
Loc: New Earth
Last seen: 19 years, 1 month
Re: What makes us who we are? [Re: RiffSki]
    #3502410 - 12/15/04 05:12 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

RiffSki said:
I think its coincidence since reality is a illusion its like when you play a RPG on a comp, your stats get rerolled every once in a while just for fun




I don't think reality is an illusion. If reality was an illusion then, if no reality existed what so ever then no reality would not be an illusion. Apparently we can see that no reality is an illusion because we are here conversing with one another and understand that one of us says that reality is an illusion and one of us says that reality is not an illusion. So therefor if reality was an illusion than we'd no if it wasn't or was for 100% sure, if not we wouldn't even have to think of it at hand.

I believe that obstacles were illusions when we have now made then to be not illusions. Where we have made purpose and meaning for them.

I think because of those obstacles it's what makes us who we are. Individually, it separates us. Once we were not separated because barriers did not exist, we were as a whole.

As I've learned so far and came to believe because it makes sense... the more we make meaning and purpose, the more we will come closer to destroying ourselves.

"Oh shit, Iraq has oil, let's make some purpose to attack them by saying so and so is a terrorist"

"Hmm the river has food, bearing fish, we could just eat off that, instead of eating the same thing we were eating. But wait, being tired of something we were eating, hmm, let's try something new. Oh wait, new, that's a new purpose, new. Hmm, let's try fish" And then the river gets depleted in the end because of that purpose, or the purpose of hydro electricity plants, or pollution from the purpose of ships in the sea. Or the purpose of water land fills.

But as I think of it, I don't think all purpose will destroy us, but rather... CHOATIC purpose. "The purpose for Love, the purpose for conserving", these are non chaotic purposes. But you can not get the world to do it as one, which is why something must trigger it, yet if it triggers it, I believe it will be the source of the downfall as well. I think it's inevitable... really.

But yeah, I kinda got off topic there I think.


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The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so.

Edited by AreoZephin (12/15/04 05:14 AM)

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OfflineAlan Stone
Corpus

Registered: 11/23/02
Posts: 986
Loc: Ten feet up
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
Re: What makes us who we are? [Re: DNKYD]
    #3502878 - 12/15/04 08:57 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

According to Maslow's theory, it isn't a strict hierarchy. You can reach Love, for instance, without fulfilling the Safety desire, or whatever Maslow called them in English. Mind you, with this theory he was reacting against behaviorists like Skinner, because he didn't believe the reaction followed the stimulus. Hence I don't believe he would have thought our needs are chemically defined.

As to nature VS nurture, I think it's both or none of the above.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle

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Offlinefresh313
journeyman
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Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 2,537
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: What makes us who we are? [Re: Alan Stone]
    #3503347 - 12/15/04 11:53 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Stone said:
Mind you, with this theory he was reacting against behaviorists like Skinner, because he didn't believe the reaction followed the stimulus. Hence I don't believe he would have thought our needs are chemically defined.





i dont believe the reaction follows the stimulus either

the stimulus follows the action
the stimulus being a chemical released in the brain
once one learns what actions cause what stimulus's one can anticipate the response, leading to an anticipation stimulus, or the release of chemicals before the action or before the completion of the action, through the use of thoughts (thinking you will be rewarded for your actions with positive stimulus), which is an action in itself. so every thought is an action which requires a corresponding stimulus response.

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Offlinedeff
just love everyone
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Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,425
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Re: What makes us who we are? [Re: fresh313]
    #3503776 - 12/15/04 01:30 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

A wise person once told me that each person, being, or thing, is a unique instance of the infinite matter and being that exists in all the universe (space and time). We are literally connected to everyother 'piece of the puzzle' through varying ways (all can be labelled cause/effect when moving temporally through time).

I'm now starting to realize how profound and truthful this statement was.

We are each a unique instance of the same set of everything that was, is, and will be.

As for the "sense of self", that's commonly referred to as the ego, and is different. It exists as a specific pattern itself, within the encompassing instance of the true Self.


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Offlinedeff
just love everyone
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Re: What makes us who we are? [Re: deff]
    #3503795 - 12/15/04 01:36 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

"So therefor if reality was an illusion than we'd no if it wasn't or was for 100% sure, if not we wouldn't even have to think of it at hand."

The whole point of an illusion is that it is an illusion :wink:

However, to really define an illusion, you need to contrast it to an objective "what-is". And for that, I use the symbol 'void'. It is absolute nothingness, beyond even the comprehension of nothingness. It exists within, without, inside and out, of everything and nothing itself. In a linear model of cognition, it exists in oscillations with our perceived "somethingness" :smile:

But of course, building a tower to see the ground is not that effective :wink:


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: What makes us who we are? [Re: deff]
    #3503928 - 12/15/04 02:09 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

deff, you still haven't touched on, what makes us who we are?
your trying to describe what we are.

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Offlinedeff
just love everyone
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Re: What makes us who we are? [Re: fresh313]
    #3503999 - 12/15/04 02:37 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

I think the entire concept of individualized 'Selfs' is an illusion :smile:

So, umm.. :cool:


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: What makes us who we are? [Re: deff]
    #3505303 - 12/15/04 06:00 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

how is it an illusion?

so your saying we are all the same we just 'think' we are different?
our fingerprints arent the same, our dna isnt the same, is that all part of the illusion too?

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Offlinefresh313
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Re: What makes us who we are? [Re: fresh313]
    #3505561 - 12/15/04 06:46 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

nevermind that post, i get what your saying about who we are is an illusion in that we are all the same thing, in that we come from the same spiritual whole. but right now as we live we have control of our part, our spirit, a part of the whole. so why do we all control it differently if we are all just peieces of the same whole?

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Invisiblekaiowas
lest we baguette
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
Re: What makes us who we are? [Re: fresh313]
    #3505925 - 12/15/04 07:47 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

I feel the first thing you really need to ask is "what is essentially you?" what is it about you that never changes? what is your true nature?


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Offlinerelativexistance
"beads, bees!?!?beads ....BEADS!!!"
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Registered: 01/08/04
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Re: What makes us who we are? [Re: kaiowas]
    #3505962 - 12/15/04 07:54 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

I would say your true nature is who you are when nobody is watching.

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Invisiblekaiowas
lest we baguette
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Re: What makes us who we are? [Re: relativexistance]
    #3505990 - 12/15/04 07:58 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

the personality changes over time. who you think you are five years ago isn't the same person you think you are today.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Offlinefresh313
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Re: What makes us who we are? [Re: kaiowas]
    #3506046 - 12/15/04 08:09 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

kaiowas said:
I feel the first thing you really need to ask is "what is essentially you?" what is it about you that never changes? what is your true nature?




"what is essentialy you?" , I am my thoughts, I am the product of the stimulus they create, I am the everchanging balance of chemicals in my brain.

"what is it that never changes?" , my spirit.

I don't have a true nature, only the nature I create.

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Invisiblekaiowas
lest we baguette
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Re: What makes us who we are? [Re: fresh313]
    #3506103 - 12/15/04 08:18 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

are you a product of your awareness, or are you the actual awareness that picks everything up.

you see

you feel

you think

the awareness is this you that does all these things.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Offlinerelativexistance
"beads, bees!?!?beads ....BEADS!!!"
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Re: What makes us who we are? [Re: kaiowas]
    #3506110 - 12/15/04 08:19 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

i agree with your personality changing over time, but is that really who you as a person are? change over time means that it changes with experience whether external or internal, but i happen to believe that there is an essential part of us that cannot be changed no matter how much other things alter our perspectives. i believe there is some born personality that can never be altered because it is constructed deep within our genetic code. i feel that it is that which truely represents who we are. no matter how much we try to alter it, it still lurks within us. examples would be addictive personalities, certain abilities that we have always just had and so on. the external stimuli such as experiences and upbringing are just social programming to teach us how to use our tools and nature in the world that we live in.

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Offlinefresh313
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Re: What makes us who we are? [Re: kaiowas]
    #3506335 - 12/15/04 09:00 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

kaiowas said:
are you a product of your awareness, or are you the actual awareness that picks everything up.
you see
you feel
you think
the awareness is this you that does all these things.




i would have to be a semi-product of my awareness, as my awareness is subject to change yet i still have the ability to know it has changed but i have not. if i was the actual awareness, changing the awareness would have to change me, and i wouldnt know ive changed, since i am my awareness.

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