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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
THE WAR IS OVER
    #3493566 - 12/13/04 09:04 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Your are the President of the US and have pulled our troops back home. You have stopped all aggresive actions across the globe. You are the first "hippie" in office. You have delclared peace to all peoples of the Globe :smile:

It has been a few months and something terriable has happened. A dirty Bomb was unleashed on New York city and Boston.


The terriosts kill 250,000 of your citizens ?

What do you do ?


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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Invisiblevampirism
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
Re: THE WAR IS OVER [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3493582 - 12/13/04 09:07 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

you figure out who, exactly, did it and why


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OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: THE WAR IS OVER [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3493584 - 12/13/04 09:07 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

If you are a hippie lib? Pretend like it never happened.


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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: THE WAR IS OVER [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3493585 - 12/13/04 09:07 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

How many pacifists post in here..?


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: THE WAR IS OVER [Re: Gijith]
    #3493610 - 12/13/04 09:12 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

This is for fun................... I read a lot of posts in here that don't want war and want peace.


Com'on people use your imagination


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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InvisibleRavus
Not an EggshellWalker
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
Re: THE WAR IS OVER [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3493691 - 12/13/04 09:25 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I go after who did it instead of attacking a country that was just within a few thousand miles of the group

I take them here (that don't die in the attacks), bring them through the court system, and they'll be executed or jailed for life

I don't attack random countries or put them in camps with no rights to be tortured and humiliated.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleGreat_Satan
prophet of God
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 953
Re: THE WAR IS OVER [Re: Ravus]
    #3493747 - 12/13/04 09:33 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
I go after who did it instead of attacking a country that was just within a few thousand miles of the group

I take them here (that don't die in the attacks), bring them through the court system, and they'll be executed or jailed for life

I don't attack random countries or put them in camps with no rights to be tortured and humiliated.




See http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3492322/an/0/page/0


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: THE WAR IS OVER [Re: Ravus]
    #3493803 - 12/13/04 09:41 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

But what if you don't know where exactly they are ? Or the counrty you know they are at won't let you in ?


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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InvisibleKrishna
कृष्ण,LOL
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 23,284
Loc: oakland
Re: THE WAR IS OVER [Re: Gijith]
    #3493840 - 12/13/04 09:45 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

while i try to stray away from absolute labels, i would consider myself to be a pacifist in a vast, vast, vast majority of scenarios that i could consider.

ok, if i was in the situation you described - firstly, i agree with morrowind - figure out exactly who did it, what their own rationale for doing so is, and what their ability to commit a similar act again is.

at the same time, I would work to help create community-based counsels to deal with the victims and the survivors of the attacks - focus recovery, reconstruction, and medical efforts on community-based, participatory systems of self-management (ie not enact a plan from top down, but facilitate a plan from the communities effected to help themselves and each other- from the small community of a family who lost a member, to the larger community of a neighborhood that lost housing and infrastructure, to the even larger community of a social "group" of people who have suffered immensive mental, physical, and economic anguish.)

after step 1 - determining the responsible parties, and dealing with the immediate tragedy - i would use different methods to communicate not merely with the perpetrators, but with all different levels of the society that the perpetrators came from. as history has shown, the overwhelming majority of "terrorist" activities occur when they have the support of the disenfranchised, impoverished, often un-educated, masses. i would try to organise worker counsels to explain the ideals of participatory self-management to the "working classes" of the society that produced the perpetrators. ditto with counsels of religious and philosophical community members to attempt to engage the religious and philosophical communities of the society(s) that produced the perpetrators. in this way, i would focus the efforts of our communities on trying to determine what caused people to have the absurd idea that murder and destruction would benefit anybody.

in terms of retributive justice - well as a philosophical ideal, i am mostly opposed to it. no amount of imprisonment, torture, war, or murder is going to bring back the poor citizens of "my" country that were killed. however, i do recognize that to "take the upper road" might be seen as caving in to the wishes of the perpetrators. hopefully, through the work started by the dialogues between the different community counsels, the problem of local populations hiding the perpetrators might be avoided. if not, i could not justify using force to remove these perpetrators, nor economic sanctions against those that protected them - both would, in my mind, only fuel the irrational feelings towards violence and hatred that seems to have sprung up (imagine a cornered cat - does it give in and peacefully submit, or does it become more violent and enraged?). instead, the only course would be to demonstrate by example how a system of participatory self-management would promote values of sustainability, equity, self-management, diversity, and solidarity.

once the perpetrators were obtained, i would request that they are given the opportunity to defend and explain their actions to both the public of "my" country, as well as their own countrymates. after this, i think an appropriate action would be to facilitate a dialogue between representatives from different counsels (both from "my" country and any other involved parties) and the perpetrators.

if, at the end of all this dialogue, the perpetrators still expressed the opinion that violence (esp. against civilians) is their preferred method of obtaining their goals, and a method that they would use again - then imprisonment might be considered necessary, to protect those innocents that might be further harmed by the perpetrators.

anyway, i need to go take a shower, but i think you see my basic course of action. in a world without economic, social, and environmental injustice, i do not think "hatred" will develop. i think an action like dropping a "dirty bomb" is a very irrationale and inhumane one. the fact that somebody would view this as an acceptable and even rightous course of action represents, in my opinion, a massive failure on the part of human society as a whole. to deal with this irrational action by more irrational actions (retributive justice, for example) - to fight hatred with hatred - is a flawed strategy, in my opinion. instead, by working to create a system of empowered communities - creating a world that fosters sustainability, diversity, equity, solidarity, and self-management is, in my opinion, the only way to actually create a sustainable solution to the problem of terrorism.


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Anonymous

Re: THE WAR IS OVER [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3494093 - 12/13/04 10:22 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

resign.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: THE WAR IS OVER [Re: ]
    #3494179 - 12/13/04 10:33 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

What exacly does that mean ?

I don't feel you................


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: THE WAR IS OVER [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3494221 - 12/13/04 10:40 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I use the occassion to ram my totalitarian agenda through congress.

it's what any good opportunist would do.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: THE WAR IS OVER [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3494222 - 12/13/04 10:40 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I thought this quote from Nietzsche was somewhat relevant.

Quote:

"But thus do I counsel you, my friends: distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful! They are people of bad race and lineage; out of their countenances peer the hangman and the sleuth-hound. Distrust all those who talk much of their justice! Verily, in their souls not only honey is lacking. And when they call themselves "the good and just," forget not, that for them to be Pharisees, nothing is lacking but- power!"




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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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InvisibleRavus
Not an EggshellWalker
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
Re: THE WAR IS OVER [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3494248 - 12/13/04 10:45 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

If I don't know exactly where they are, I find them. I give a reward for information leading to them, I compromise with captured terrorists to give me information leading to them (IE. you tell me where he is, and I'll give you life in prison instead of the death penalty.)

Hell, we don't know where bin Laden is, and we've already violated many rights because of him. It won't make much of a difference whether we take away liberties or not

If the country won't let me in, if I have reliable intelligence leading to that country, first I try to compromise. Then, if they still refuse, I send troops in, and say that I will not hold their decision against them, but if they attack my troops I will attack that country in return. I'd hope it wouldn't come to that, but if it did I would not hesitate to overthrow a government that ordered its troops to attack and kill or wound U.S. soldiers


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleKrishna
कृष्ण,LOL
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 23,284
Loc: oakland
Re: THE WAR IS OVER [Re: afoaf]
    #3494256 - 12/13/04 10:47 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
I use the occassion to ram my totalitarian agenda through congress.

it's what any good opportunist would do.




i don't know what smiley is more appropriate.

:lol: at the obvious absurdity...

or :sad: at the fact that this is actually what happened


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InvisibleRavus
Not an EggshellWalker
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
Re: THE WAR IS OVER [Re: Ravus]
    #3494270 - 12/13/04 10:49 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Of course, this all is happening because we've gotten ourselves into it for decades. I wouldn't have the policies that piss off so many countries anyway, like supporting Israel with tens of billions of dollars and intruding on Arab countries, so that we wouldn't need to go to a place thousands of miles away to look for people that hated our policies so much they killed our civilians. America should be more isolated politically, but instead we stick our nose where it doesn't belong and then act suprised when it gets punched


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
Re: THE WAR IS OVER [Re: Ravus]
    #3494396 - 12/13/04 11:08 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

That is knda silly isn't it ? America supporting Irael like we do and then expect the Arabs to understand our handling of Terrorism.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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Invisibleusefulidiot
It's notfascist, it's...Neoconservative!

Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 732
Re: THE WAR IS OVER [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3494447 - 12/13/04 11:17 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I think I would probably risk assasination by cutting millitary and intelligence budgets by about 80%, bring home our troups, and putting our nations resources towards something worthwhile like feeding the hungry and a prevalent hemp industry


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InvisibleRavus
Not an EggshellWalker
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
Re: THE WAR IS OVER [Re: usefulidiot]
    #3494500 - 12/13/04 11:28 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

It has been a few months and something terriable has happened. A dirty Bomb was unleashed on New York city and Boston.


The terriosts kill 250,000 of your citizens ?




Quote:

usefulidiot said:
I think I would probably risk assasination by cutting millitary and intelligence budgets by about 80%, bring home our troups, and putting our nations resources towards something worthwhile like feeding the hungry and a prevalent hemp industry




Uh, terrorists kill a quarter of a million of your people so you don't do anything about it?  :confused:

I agree with everything you said for a time after it is said and done, but for after you deal with the attacks do you usually bring the troops home and cut the military budget, not before


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Invisibleusefulidiot
It's notfascist, it's...Neoconservative!

Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 732
Re: THE WAR IS OVER [Re: Ravus]
    #3494520 - 12/13/04 11:32 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

They want an excuse to maintain and expand on current millitary budget..that is one of the main reasons why they insist on engineering the terrorism in the first place.


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