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OfflineTaz
veteran
Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 1,090
Last seen: 21 years, 9 days
For all U Clinton Lovers
    #349061 - 06/26/01 09:27 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)
Log in to view attachment

*


Help stop the clear cutting of MT. Elphinstone. send a small donation to the Spore Lab are purchase a few syringes, help fight the Government bastards who want to destroy forest for $$gain......

Edited by Taz on 06/26/01 02:31 AM.



--------------------
"Most of the world's problems are caused by people taking things that do not belong to them..."


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Invisibleisis
addict
Registered: 05/17/01
Posts: 484
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Taz]
    #349220 - 06/26/01 05:37 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Taz, what is wrong with empowering gays? Actually, what is wrong with empowering any minority that needs to be empowered.



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OfflineTaz
veteran
Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 1,090
Last seen: 21 years, 9 days
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: isis]
    #349265 - 06/26/01 07:20 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

What is wrong with empowering gays?? R U confused? it is the down fall of any nation. look at history, every nation that has allowed homosexual has fallen, look at the Roman empire for example. It goes against God, and God allows other nations to destroy that nation who excepts queers. so we are in the beginning of the end. don't believe me I don't care, just wait and see what happens...

Help stop the clear cutting of MT. Elphinstone. send a small donation to the Spore Lab are purchase a few syringes, help fight the Government bastards who want to destroy forest for $$gain......


--------------------
"Most of the world's problems are caused by people taking things that do not belong to them..."


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Invisiblezeuzjuz
kicker of elves
Registered: 09/01/00
Posts: 298
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Taz]
    #349283 - 06/26/01 08:08 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Do you seriously believe that? I mean, I am not even Christian really, my upbringing was, but I have not been active in any church since I was about 13. But you really think that? Like Sodom and Gomorrah(sp.?), the fall of the Roman Empire? You truly believe God destroys civilizations that allow fags? Weird... Since I am not very religious I don't really have an alternative suggestion, I just find it weird that you think that. I am kind of homophobic myself actually (unless it involves sexy lipstick lesbians kissing each other on either side of my dick), but I dunno about hail and lightening.


//sananaB cinataS tronS I//


--------------------
//sananaB cinataS tronS I//


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InvisibleDelyrium
lemonadeh.o.n.e.y.

Registered: 12/27/99
Posts: 5,941
Loc: vermont
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: zeuzjuz]
    #349290 - 06/26/01 08:16 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

LoL...I hate Clinton but I dont' hate Gays. I have my own thoughts about Minorities...but right now I wanna argue about gays.

I can't believe how people can consider gay a DISEASE or a SIN. They dont come up to you and grab your dick...do they? nooo...so then if they leave you along please leave them alone. Give them equal rights.

It's not like I've never done cocaine before but, on the whole, if I can't see dancing elephants, I'm not interested.


--------------------
Fuck Ted Nugent he?s a fucking jerk
I wish that he?d be gone
Chauvanistic republican
Kills animals cause he
Forgot how to write a song


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Invisiblezeuzjuz
kicker of elves
Registered: 09/01/00
Posts: 298
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Delyrium]
    #349295 - 06/26/01 08:21 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

I agree, but they do sometimes come up and grab your dick. For some reason, gays are attracted to me(I'm hetero male), and I have ended up in 'gay friendly' clubs before without knowing it, where people there have walked by and done things that would INSTANTLY get any male fired from a job for doing to a female at work! Ass-pinching, crotch grabbing(Seriously). Gay men can be pretty dirty, trust me....


//sananaB cinataS tronS I//


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//sananaB cinataS tronS I//


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Invisibleisis
addict
Registered: 05/17/01
Posts: 484
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: zeuzjuz]
    #349420 - 06/27/01 12:29 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Zeuzjuz you must be a cutie.But that does not give anybody the right to be that way....
Taz, many nations have fallen. Many empires have vanished. are you saying they all allowed homosexuals to take over or just the two you mentioned? I'm sure the reason for the fall of the Roman empire is debatable.
I don't believe homosexuality is a sin.But let's say I did...The bible states that all sins are equal in the eyes of the lord.There is no greater sin.Lying,cheating,stealing,murder..all equal.I find it interesting how this is what the bible says. Yet, some people act as if homosexuality is the greatest of all sins.The bible doesn't list sins in order of severity.So, if you lie, steal, cheat your just as guilty.God,should destroy us all.
Anyhow, like I said I don't believe that it is a sin. Just making a point. There's a huge hyprocricy in your statement.



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InvisibleAgent Cooper
veteran

Registered: 08/04/00
Posts: 210
Loc: right behind you
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: isis]
    #349473 - 06/27/01 02:06 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

a) I didnt realize there were any "Clinton lovers" who posted here. Clinton sucks.

b) that cartoon is lame.

c) taz - you are one indoctrinated yank.

d) Homosexuality as the catalyst for the fall of nations? Go take a history course.

"I've killed more people than the Unabomber because I've paid more taxes than he has." ~ Oprah Winfrey


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OfflineTaz
veteran
Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 1,090
Last seen: 21 years, 9 days
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: isis]
    #349493 - 06/27/01 02:43 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Isis, if U read the Bible like U claimed U have then U would know that homosexuality is listed as a sin. It is one of the 640 laws listed by Moses. The Bible also say's that it stinks in God's nostrels, which is the only thing mentioned as this. the reason why God destroyed sodom and gomorah is because of this great sin. It is forgivable don't get me wrong, but to those who choose to do this and not repent then they are doomed to hell. and to say it is ok makes one just as guilty of such a sin. don't go quoting Bible to me son, because not only was I raised in a oneness movement but I also spent time in a Bible school. You will never win in this argument. Ask God's messenger, he hasn't been around since he was banned and then unbanned thaty I know of, but after I quoted Bible to him to prove he was so dead wrong he kept his mouth shut because he knew I was right. I gave him scripture to go research himself through pm, he has not posted a religious thing since that I am aware of. Homosexuality is a sin, make no mistake about it. It just goes to prove that so many people have been brain washed through public school system. do some research and You'll see that Rockafeller was the one who set up the public school system for the soul purpose of brainwashing our kids. I find most of the stuff posted in this forum vary amusing, so many of you have your facts so backwards and twisted. most of U don't even know what your talking about because U seem to tend to lean and believe what the liberals say. So do U think it was ok for the gays to sue the boyscouts because they wanted to have gay men teaching little kids immoral acts?? Have U noticed all the baby rapers U hear about almost on a daily basis since Clinton? Do U even know that there is a homosexual group are organization that is responsible for the rape and sodimization of thousand of little boy's every year and they don't get prosecuted because Clinton has made it almost impossible for this group to be prosecuted? U don't see the evil in this?? LOL you are such a confused person and I feel for U....U better wake up before it's too late my friend...

Agent cooper, I may be indoctrinated, but I at least know the difference between what is right and what is wrong which seems to me that today there is so many people who are totally confused. and Yes I will defend these believe's to the death. If U don't stand for something U'll fall for anything, which is what is happenig in this country today...It is just sad to see so many people except what will soon be there sealling of there fate. I do not know why I even ventured in here, I can now see that U all are confussed and don't even have a clue what is really going on behind the scene's. I have seen thousands of government reports showing how to make the American people fall into this type of BS. and it is working so well for them. Look at all the people who have died for us in the past, their deaths are now invain because we as a nation have allowed this kind of crap to take over and it is destroying us from with in, which is also the exact same thing that both Russia and China said they would do to us and then they'd be able to take us over without even firing a shot because we would be so confused and made into passive people we wouldn't think about opposing them. man sure is funny when I heard back in the 70's these 2 countries made these statments, I laughed my ass off and said it would never happen, but as I look at our country today I can see they were right all along. Many of U are so blind are U must all be under 17 years old and do not even have a clue what is and has happened to this great land of our's...

Help stop the clear cutting of MT. Elphinstone. send a small donation to the Spore Lab are purchase a few syringes, help fight the Government bastards who want to destroy forest for $$gain......


--------------------
"Most of the world's problems are caused by people taking things that do not belong to them..."


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Invisibleisis
addict
Registered: 05/17/01
Posts: 484
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Taz]
    #349515 - 06/27/01 03:31 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

I couln't disagree with your statements more. So, lets just respectfully disagree.Your biblical facts are correct,but I disagree with the bibble too. I'm not questioning your biblical knowledge. I just do not condone anything that leads to hate and discrimination towards any group of individuals. Just one thing though; what's this about gay people being child rappist and wanting to teach boyscout immoral acts.Man, you are so off. That is simply not true.That's like saying all white males are serial killers.The gay community is not out there looking for little boys and girls to sexually assult.Sexual predators are out there and they come in all forms. Straight, gay,bi and they are just sick.We all want children to be save.



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Invisibleisis
addict
Registered: 05/17/01
Posts: 484
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Taz]
    #349519 - 06/27/01 03:42 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Don't get me wrong anyone that harms a child should be punished. That group that you are talking about that molest and rapes children should be killed if they are guilty.My issue is that you make it sound like gays are out there looking for little boys to rape and that is just an ugly generalization that is not true.



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OfflineTaz
veteran
Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 1,090
Last seen: 21 years, 9 days
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: isis]
    #349618 - 06/27/01 06:44 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

ok, ok, I didn't mean to come off like that. I do not however agree that we as a nation should except gay's. It is wrong. God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. I will have to research my mountain of documents to find that group I was talking about. when I get time and find it I will post that info for U. At least U and I can agree on the child part. anyway, never meant to offend U with this. just thought it was funny that's all(with the pic) ...

Help stop the clear cutting of MT. Elphinstone. send a small donation to the Spore Lab are purchase a few syringes, help fight the Government bastards who want to destroy forest for $$gain......


--------------------
"Most of the world's problems are caused by people taking things that do not belong to them..."


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Invisibleisis
addict
Registered: 05/17/01
Posts: 484
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Taz]
    #349631 - 06/27/01 07:05 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

By the way Taz, I'm a girl. I didn't want you to think I was a boy. I noticed you called me "son" in an earlier post. {wink}



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Invisibleisis
addict
Registered: 05/17/01
Posts: 484
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: isis]
    #349632 - 06/27/01 07:07 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

:wink:



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Offlinesir_shroom_alot
enthusiast
Registered: 03/27/01
Posts: 223
Last seen: 20 years, 9 months
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: isis]
    #349655 - 06/27/01 07:35 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

well i forgot what i was going to say,but it was important, hold on, oh eah i remember!!!! gays will get UUUUUU , so lokk out and kill um when u see them






first u get the money, then u get the Weemen!
Wee men? what the hell are u talking about!
i said woman; no u didn't man!

~Ur PAYING ME IN HAIR CLIPPINGS! WHAT ARE U cRAZY?


--------------------
first u get the money, then u get the Weemen!
Wee men? what the hell are u talking about!
i said woman; no u didn't man!

~Ur PAYING ME IN HAIR CLIPPINGS! WHAT ARE U cRAZY?


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InvisibleMyconoclastic
Lesbian
Registered: 05/04/01
Posts: 23
Loc: Washington, DC
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Taz]
    #349769 - 06/27/01 11:29 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

As a lesbian, I have to say that your posts sickened me, Taz. All the misinformation and half-truths swimming around your poor indoctrinated brain. Yes, NAMBLA (that's the north american man boy love association) is disgusting, but the vast majority of gay men and women would never ever molest a child. As for being scout leaders, I'll have you know that I was sexually abused by a straight male cub scout leader (my brothers were in his troop and I tagged along to meetings.) Even if this man didn't molest any of the boys, he certainly isn't a model of moral rectitude. Anyway, I realize that my post isn't going to change any of your thinking, but there it is. And just so you know, I am no 17 year old. I am 23, have been on my own since I was 16, and will soon have a PhD in mathematics.

----------------------------------------------
Someday my pins will come.


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OfflinePhyl
old hand
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 597
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 13 years, 3 days
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Taz]
    #349779 - 06/27/01 11:58 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Don't read too much into the bibe. It's overall message is good, but at the end of the day it is a vague translation of individual peoples opinions, and nothing more.



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OfflinePhyl
old hand
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 597
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 13 years, 3 days
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Taz]
    #349784 - 06/27/01 12:10 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Taz, you are so far off the mark it is unbelieveable. Have you ever actually met any gays? Even if you think you haven't, you have, but don't realise it because they are no different to anybody else.

Some people are born male, some are born female, some are born black, some are born white, some are born straight, and some are born gay. Being gay is not a matter of choice, it's just part of who you are, and to oppress any minority because of who they are is fundamentally wrong. People denying who they are is more of a sin than being gay IMHO.

If you believe god is the ultimate higher power and creation force, then for gays to even exist they must be one of his creations. Therefore, how can it be a sin to be gay?



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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Myconoclastic]
    #349849 - 06/27/01 03:41 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

phD at 23...i don't believe that..good goal though

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Phyl]
    #349876 - 06/27/01 04:51 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

i'm going to put my 2 cents in and it will probably not amount to too much because this topic is like beating a dead horse.

****Some people are born male, some are born female, some are born black, some are born white****

What makes a person a specific sex or color is not related to those who become gay. That is purely pathetic and is a very naive statement

****and some are born gay****

I think this is a way for gays to justify their actions. All people are born hetro no matter what you think and they make the decision to be gay. I have no problem with someone being gay but please don't try to treat it like it is some sort of disease and you can't help it. There have been studys that contradict what i say and many others that agree. If gay people would quit trying to justify all their actions something that they can't control i believe the problem with accepting gays would be minimized.

****oppress any minority because of who they are is fundamentally wrong****

or in other words it's alright to fuck those who are percieved to be "majorities"?

****People denying who they are is more of a sin than being gay IMHO. ****

I agree that denying who you are is traggic but when you make a decision as to how you want your life to be, that too is who you are. In other words your actions can make you who you are.

****If you believe god is the ultimate higher power and creation force, then for gays to even exist they must be one of his creations. Therefore, how can it be a sin to be gay?****

Gays exist because they want to.

Nowhere is it written that being gay is a sin. There are 10 actions (Ten commandments) that cause a sin. There is however specific actions that are frowned upon. God gives Gays along with others free will. It's amazing how many people can't comprehend this.

This is my interpretation og Gays.

Personall i find the act of being Gay utterly discusting. I find it gross and appauling. With this said, i don't hate the gay person...just the act. ie: Hate the "sin" not the sinner.

Now with this all said am i considered uncompasionate and closeminded because i don't agree with anything the gays stand for? in addition to the human rights we all share

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Agent Cooper]
    #349878 - 06/27/01 04:53 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

****that cartoon is lame****

and your cartoons aren't?

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflinePhyl
old hand
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 597
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 13 years, 3 days
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #349885 - 06/27/01 05:20 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

That is purely pathetic and is a very naive statement
Lol :)
It's a very true statement.

All people are born hetro no matter what you think and they make the decision to be gay
And being a hetro, you know that for a fact? If that is so, then why do many gay's never come out? I have a number of good friends who are gay, and I really don't believe they made a conscious descision to be that way. My first friend who came out lost many friends because of it, was publicly ridiculed by many people who he thought were his friends, and was frequently physically attacked. He knew this would happen, but chose to come out anyway. Why would someone choose this?

I have no problem with someone being gay but please don't try to treat it like it is some sort of disease and you can't help it
Disease? I don't see being gay as being like a disease, I see it like a hair or skin colour. Some people have brown hair, some people have straight hair. Some people are straight and some people are gay. A disease implies something bad, and being gay is in no way bad.

If gay people would quit trying to justify all their actions something that they can't control
Why do they have to justify anything? If you have issues with homosexuality, that's your problem not theirs.

or in other words it's alright to fuck those who are percieved to be "majorities"?
Explain to be how you can oppress a majority.

God gives Gays along with others free will. It's amazing how many people can't comprehend this.
So you're saying they have free will, but if they live a certain way then they are wrong. That sounds like a complete contradiction to me.

Personall i find the act of being Gay utterly discusting. I find it gross and appauling. With this said, i don't hate the gay person...just the act. ie: Hate the "sin" not the sinner.
Why? If you are not gay, then how does it effect you in any way what so ever? Do you also find it appauling that chimpanzees commonly engane in homosexual sex for pleasure?

Take care

Phil






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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Phyl]
    #349921 - 06/27/01 06:43 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

****It's a very true statement****

Why is it true?..because you believe it to be?

****Why would someone choose this?****

There are a lot of bad decisions people make this is just an example of one of them. On the otherhand their are many people who become gay that are imbraced by their friends and family..hell look at San Fran. I don't condone the beating up of these people and that has less to do with why people don't come out and more to do with the iggnorance of others. I on the otherhand can work with gays but do not support any sort of "gay movement"...just human rights

****I don't see being gay as being like a disease, I see it like a hair or skin colour****

Your ASSUMING that they are born gay, and skin color can't be changed, sexual preferences can and there are cases that prove this ie. someone being gay finding God and marrying a woman and having kids. Sure it could be said that he is still gay but there can never be proof that could prove this... no proof no case

As far as the disease statement i was focusing on the "can't help it" aspect not the good/bad

****or in other words it's alright to fuck those who are percieved to be "majorities"?
Explain to be how you can oppress a majority. ****

Affirmative action and quotas

****So you're saying they have free will, but if they live a certain way then they are wrong. That sounds like a complete contradiction to me****

have you ever read the bible? Free will doesn't make you right or wrong. Freewill is the ability to do what you want and be allowed to make the decisions that you want even if they are wrong. If you molest a child, you had the ability to molest and God didn't stop you, however the act was wrong...there was no contradiction.

****Why? If you are not gay, then how does it effect you in any way what so ever? Do you also find it appauling that chimpanzees commonly engane in homosexual sex for pleasure? ****

That is a very ignorant question. It affects me because legislature is being formed to succomb to what many believe is "discusting" and "immoral". I live near a town that is known to have many gays and the liberal-minded views that come out as laws (city ordanances, mission statement) affect everyone not just gays.

chimpanzees are animals..so what





Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Invisibleisis
addict
Registered: 05/17/01
Posts: 484
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers *DELETED* [Re: Innvertigo]
    #349926 - 06/27/01 06:52 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by isis


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OfflinePhyl
old hand
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 597
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 13 years, 3 days
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #349932 - 06/27/01 07:01 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Why is it true?..because you believe it to be?
I was refering to the section of my post your quoted, that people are born different.

I on the otherhand can work with gays but do not support any sort of "gay movement"...just human rights
I don't believe that Gay's should be awarded superior rights to homosexuals, or recieve any preferential treatment, as many 'gay activists' seem to be calling for. I do however believe that disrimination against them is wrong.

Your ASSUMING that they are born gay, and skin color can't be changed, sexual preferences can and there are cases that prove
And you're assuming that they're not. As neither of us are gay, I don't see how we can ultimately say one way or another. I am basing this on many studies that have been carries out examinig exactly this, and the opinions of every gay person I have ever seen or spoken to. Don't forget this works both ways, and that many people who were previously married divorce their partners to become involved in a gay relationship.

have you ever read the bible?
A long time ago. I am not a christian though (I follow a solitary pagan path), and I didn't find much in there that inspired me. I certainly don't take the words of the bible as the truth, if my personal opinions differ from those in the bible.

Freewill is the ability to do what you want and be allowed to make the decisions that you want even if they are wrong
That depends on your outlook. I believe that people are born gay. If this is true (all the evidence says it is), then where is the free will involved with that?

It affects me because legislature is being formed to succomb to what many believe is "discusting" and "immoral"
Would you care to expand on the that? As you know I live in a different country, with different legislature, and I don't really know what you are refering to.

chimpanzees are animals..so what
You've picked up on my point exactly... They are animals. Do you believe that they are capable of choosing their sexual preferences, or do they practice homosexual activities because they are born that way?





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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: isis]
    #349945 - 06/27/01 07:22 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

****Innvertigo obviously your not gay or you would not have made those statements****

Great deduction..........

****And you think this is a choice****

Yep...it's quite simple if you look at it..i'm not saying your a bad person but don't insult my intelligence with this sob story.

****I lost all of my previous church friends****

is it their fault or yours?

****My church turned against me****

Well i hate to break the news to you but most churches don't condone being gay...if you went to church you would have known that

****And you think this is a choice..You're insane with all do respect****

the truth must hurt more than you know....with all due respect.

****I would have choosen to be straight****

I thought being gay was ok?..guess not

****I just find it amusing how people just assume that we just choose to be gay.That we could just as easily "choose" to be straigtht.****

I find it amusing that gays say they were born that way.

****Can you choose to be gay?****

Why ould i want to....i think it's discusting..adam and eve not adam and steve.

****I cannot be straight****

or choose not to

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Phyl]
    #349950 - 06/27/01 07:51 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

****I was refering to the section of my post your quoted, that people are born different.****

And?

****I don't believe that Gay's should be awarded superior rights to homosexuals, or recieve any preferential treatment....I do however believe that disrimination against them is wrong.****

I agree..however discrimination against strait white males is wrong as well.

****And you're assuming that they're not****

i'm assuming nothing

****I am basing this on many studies that have been carries out examinig exactly this, and the opinions of every gay person I have ever seen or spoken to****

Studies? ha...half them studies are done by a group of gays as to justify themselves.

****Don't forget this works both ways, and that many people who were previously married divorce their partners to become involved in a gay relationship****

I believe you...the person CHOSE to become gay. Thanks for strengthening my point. :)

****if my personal opinions differ from those in the bible****

Hence, free will...

****That depends on your outlook. I believe that people are born gay. If this is true (all the evidence says it is), then where is the free will involved with that? ****

first off that is a bad example of free will. With that said where is all this evidence you speak of? There hasn't been a "CONFIRMED" study to prove it so this "evidence" you speak of is flawed.

****Would you care to expand on the that? As you know I live in a different country, with different legislature, and I don't really know what you are refering to****

not particularly because it will change the subject..but i'll give some examples...special human rights, special hiring rights, minority status, same sex marrages...ect.

****Do you believe that they are capable of choosing their sexual preferences****

chimpanzees are animals..so what


Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineWeardo
newbie

Registered: 04/26/01
Posts: 29
Last seen: 20 years, 11 months
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Taz]
    #350005 - 06/27/01 09:03 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Look closely at the middle of the cartoon, in the water near the front of the boat. See the light grey resist.com? Now open www.resist.com. White Aryan Resistance. Taz is a nazi. But this isn't surprizing to me, his schizophrenic postings kind of make sense now.

Now, on with the show. The Bible states very clearly that 'the love of money is the root of ALL EVIL', not gays, not democrats, not communists, not Clinton, not me, not Dolly Parton, not Garfield, not Denny's, and especially not Jews, as I'm sure Taz hates them too. II Timothy 12: 12 - 14 is the exact verse I'm referring to, I believe, but I'm not sure. If that's wrong I'll look it up, but it's been a while since I've debated pseudo-religious wankers.

Besides, Nazi Germany killed homosexuals (as well as communists and other people Taz hates), but the 3rd Reich fell.

So how did we get a fucking nazi as a mod?

___________
Booyah, grandma....booyah!


--------------------
___________
Booyah, grandma....booyah!


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InvisibleMyconoclastic
Lesbian
Registered: 05/04/01
Posts: 23
Loc: Washington, DC
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #350033 - 06/27/01 09:46 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Well, Innvertigo, I went to college at 16, and there for my senior thesis began the research that I have expanded in the last year and a half for my dissertation. All that research is complete and I am now working on writing my dissertation and defending it. My defense is tentatively set for October. So if all goes well I should have my PhD in December. (I turn 24 in November.)

You know, I would love to have my own company and fire people just because they are straight.

----------------------------------------------
Someday my pins will come.


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OfflinePhyl
old hand
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 597
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #350061 - 06/27/01 10:16 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Invertigo, have you ever been in love? (I'm gonna assume yes)
Did you choose to fall in love with that person? Did you see them one day, and think 'you're nice, I think I'm gonna love you today'. Of course not, love just happens and you have no control over it.
If you're gay, the same thing happens, just with someone of the same sex. It just happens. Where is the choice?

That is exactly what happened to the friend of mine I spoke about in an earlier post. He fell in love with a friend who was in our group. He didn't want it to happen, and he wished it hadn't (I had many tearful conversation with him about this). Once he told our friend this, they totally disowned him, and it took years until they spoke again. My gay friend fell into fairly bad depression, and tried to kill himself a number of times because he had been brought up with a similar attitude to yours, and he thought there was something 'wrong' with him. Eventually he learned that he is the way he is, and nothing can change that, and he now has a regular boyfriend, and is one of the happiest people I know.

Exactly what are you basing your opinions on apart from the bible? Have you actually met any openly gay people and discussed their sexuality to any degree? I'm guessing not...

Take care

Phil



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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Myconoclastic]
    #350150 - 06/27/01 11:53 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

****My defense is tentatively set for October****

Congrats..education is an amazing thing..i've had my fair share..good luck

****You know, I would love to have my own company and fire people just because they are straight.****

I'll take this as sarcasm because i would like to fire people people who are ignorant...not on their job, but of life...

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Invisibleisis
addict
Registered: 05/17/01
Posts: 484
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #350169 - 06/28/01 12:20 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Congratulations Galois on your achievements and good luck in Oct.....



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InvisibleAgent Cooper
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Registered: 08/04/00
Posts: 210
Loc: right behind you
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #350445 - 06/28/01 07:51 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Yes Innvertigo - that cartoon is lame, as are all of those WAR (see submarine periscope) cartoons that float around the net. Weardo is correct - that cartoon was put out by the White Aryan Resistance.



"I've killed more people than the Unabomber because I've paid more taxes than he has." ~ Oprah Winfrey


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Offlinezetek
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Registered: 04/29/01
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Loc: United States
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Taz]
    #350762 - 06/28/01 08:52 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)
Log in to view attachment


Support the Free Spore Ring!
go.to/FreeSporeRing

Edited by zetek on 06/28/01 01:57 PM.



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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Phyl]
    #350807 - 06/28/01 09:57 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

****Invertigo, have you ever been in love? (I'm gonna assume yes)****

yes..with a woman

****Did you choose to fall in love with that person? ****

What kind of question is that? ofcourse i chose who i fell in love with....it's not a literal ball-and-chain..

****Did you see them one day, and think 'you're nice, I think I'm gonna love you today'****

No it was more like WOW i really would like to go out with her...after a while i chose to love her...

****If you're gay, the same thing happens, just with someone of the same sex. It just happens. Where is the choice? ****

That's all sweet and tender and everything but the choice was to become GAY!!! i believe that gay's fall in love with the person they are attracted to just as hetro's do...but after they chose to become gay...i'm repeating myself now. I don't doubt that the feelings they feel are real..

****He fell in love with a friend who was in our group. He didn't want it to happen....****

Then why did he let it happen?....basically i'm a little sick of the sob stories in this post. your off the point. My original statement is they choose to be gay...after that they feel the same as hetro's do..i'm assuming ofcourse.

****Exactly what are you basing your opinions on apart from the bible? Have you actually met any openly gay people and discussed their sexuality to any degree? ****

So i have to be buddy buddy with a gay person before i can understand them? I've never been in space but i know an awflully lot about it. BTW i have met Gay's very feminin one's at that...they couldn't stop talking about their boyfriends...it was quite sickning...as for the person himself he was an ok guy..just toooooo feminen.

****I'm guessing not... *****

You know what they say when you assume....






Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Agent Cooper]
    #350811 - 06/28/01 10:00 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

i was refferring how lame your cartoons usually arre...sorry for the mix up...

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinezetek
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Taz]
    #350841 - 06/28/01 11:15 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

The problem with the United States is all the bible thumpers who want our government (and its citizen's lives) to be based on fairy tales. If you want to live in a theocracy then move to Iran.

Support the Free Spore Ring!
go.to/FreeSporeRing


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Offlinedelian
enthusiast
Registered: 02/08/99
Posts: 30
Last seen: 21 years, 2 months
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: zetek]
    #351161 - 06/29/01 08:41 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Is it just me or is this invertigone kid one self-righteous bone picker who's just looking to argue? Jesus man, chill out! It know it's hard to believe but people actually do see the world differently than your ultrawhite,republican, christian, shop-aholic american worldview...get off your conversion crusade and stop being such a lonely fundamentalist messageboard jerk. Dont litter these forums because you're mad that Pat Roberson isnt broadcast 24/7...take a deep breath & chill.

peace out chump

Edited by delian on 06/29/01 01:50 AM.



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InvisiblePhobos
Registered: 10/15/00
Posts: 435
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: isis]
    #351166 - 06/29/01 08:47 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Isis? Isis like the band?



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OfflineWeardo
newbie

Registered: 04/26/01
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: delian]
    #351446 - 06/29/01 10:01 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

To be fair to Innvertigo, he's not those things, he's cool when he's not being an arse. ;) He's just listens to Rush Limbaugh too much, someday his faith will faulter.

___________
Booyah, grandma....booyah!


--------------------
___________
Booyah, grandma....booyah!


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Invisiblesparki68
spawnmonger
Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 20
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Taz]
    #351499 - 06/29/01 11:27 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Uhhh dood, Hitler didn't like fags either ...he's gone (suicide)
Musilini i'm not so sure about but I would think he was a fag hater too(killed by his own peeps and draged around the street)
those are just too examples of anti homo's that didn't make it. I'm like SO amazed that you would post something like that (or anybody here would) that I can't even formulate much of a rebuttle and just saying fuck you isn't good enough. the only thing I'll leave with you is you can thank all those closeted homo's in our armed forces for protecting your right to be a phobe. And if you think there aren't too many in there your wrong!!! think about it... community showers, whole groups of men living together, the "buddy system",heavy drinking, and the knowlege you may be blown up tommorow....You could probably say our armed forces are the substrate which homo's friut best on. ;P




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InvisibleMyconoclastic
Lesbian
Registered: 05/04/01
Posts: 23
Loc: Washington, DC
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #351506 - 06/29/01 11:35 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

OK, let me just say that I wholeheartedly disagree that we are all born hetero, but say we are, and some people choose to be gay. So fucking what? Does it make it any less of a travesty when person is beaten to death because he is gay?

What is it that makes homosexuality so disgusting to some people? (Just because you believe the bible says it is wrong doesn't cut it- the bible says many many things are wrong, yet adultery or perjury don't cause the same visceral reaction that homosexuality does.) I am asking this question in all seriousness- other than the bible, what exactly about homosexuality do you find wrong?

What is wrong with a man acting "feminine"? What is wrong with a woman acting "masculine"?

No matter how you feel about homosexuality, how can you justify laws that prohibit gay sex?

----------------------------------------------
Someday my pins will come.


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Invisibleisis
addict
Registered: 05/17/01
Posts: 484
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Phobos]
    #351843 - 06/30/01 01:34 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Phobos,it Isis like the Goddess.:cool:
I think when people start to imagine what other people do in bed they may find that disgusting.So, when guys think of what gay guys do it freaks some of them out.Less guys freak out when they imagine two women making love.They find it more appealing. But you know, I'm not a guy and I'm darn sure not straight. So, I'll let some else tackle this one.

Edited by isis on 06/30/01 07:10 AM.



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OfflineRichard_D_James
enthusiast
Registered: 04/28/01
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Last seen: 14 years, 10 days
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: isis]
    #352423 - 07/01/01 08:11 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I can't believe you people are so fucking stupid. Homosexuals cause empires to fall? Well, I guess Nazi Germany lost the war because all of the flagrant fucking 'fags' overrunning the government. (It's called sarcasm). Are you kidding me? If you really believe that Taz, go stick a gun in your mouth and get it over with. Seriously.

Invertigo: No matter how much your warped little ala-fucking-bama mind would like to believe, people don't 'choose' to become homosexual. It's like Elton John woke up one day and said "Im a fag!" . Since you are hetero, im assuming you have your own taste in women. What makes you attracted to females? Did you just 'choose' to be one day? "That woman has a vagina, I have a penis, I must like her!!!!" I highly doubt it. Your attraction to women probably came slowly as you developed.

On a side note, I believe people who are homophobic have trouble coming to grips with their own sexuality. People who "hate faggots" hate them so bad because they're afriad of what they might become. They're afraid of their own sexuality. I'm secure enough in my own manhood to respect homosexuals. It isn't something they choose to do. If someone wants to be a "fucking faggot", let them. They aren't fucking hurting you. It's not like you have to sleep with them you redneck inbred fucks.

Isis: I am a hetero male. I don't find anything "disgusting" about other peoples sexual preferences. I am secure enough in my manhood, and secure enough in my sexuality. A lot of others do. I don't see how a man could fuck another man in the ass, but I also don't see how people can shit on each other like I see in nasty porn vids. I also don't see how people can be sadists or masochists. I find old people having sex somewhat disturbing. It all comes down to whatever 'floats your boat' so to speak. Everyone likes their fucking different. I, for example, am extremely fond of getting head. I'd rather get head then fuck any given female. So, I believe, whatever you want to do in bed is your own fucking business. If its consensual, between to adults, everything goes.



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Invisibleisis
addict
Registered: 05/17/01
Posts: 484
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Richard_D_James]
    #352448 - 07/01/01 08:52 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

LOL. Richard D. James I like your style.



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Offline'Pulse
enthusiast

Registered: 06/17/00
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Richard_D_James]
    #352930 - 07/02/01 08:17 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Um Richard, I don't like your potty mouth.



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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Richard_D_James]
    #357716 - 07/20/01 07:51 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I realize this is a VERY late post but i've been on vacation for 2 weeks so here goes.

****No matter how much your warped little ala-fucking-bama mind would like to believe****

Well my man i'm from Detroit so quite assuming dumbass

****people don't 'choose' to become homosexual****

so tell me smart guy..where is that proven?...maybe it's those tests sponsored by the triangle foundation....THINK!

****It's like Elton John woke up one day and said "Im a fag!" *****

What's your point?

****Since you are hetero, im assuming you have your own taste in women. ****

that's correvt....Just like your taste in men

****What makes you attracted to females? Did you just 'choose' to be one day? "That woman has a vagina, I have a penis, I must like her!!!!" I highly doubt it. Your attraction to women probably came slowly as you developed.****

The smell of woman i would imagine.......I liked the smell so i made a choice....As a matter of fact people do choose to like a particular aspect of the opposite sex. ... Do you even know what you're talking about????


****On a side note, I believe people who are homophobic have trouble coming to grips with their own sexuality****

Gee i wonder where i heard that before???hmmmmmm . Well tell me something..i hate Nazi's and Communists....does that make me phobic towards them groups? DUH!!

You really should read a bit more. Because if you did you'd know that i said i hate the ACT of Homosexuals not the person doing the act...i realize that's a little much for your tiny brain to conceive but please try to read a little more.


****If someone wants to be a "fucking faggot", let them****

Gee..getting a little defensive aren't you?... makes me wonder about you now.....

****redneck inbred fucks****

And i'm supposed to take you seriosly...what a moron


Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinesurfacing0
member
Registered: 07/29/01
Posts: 96
Loc: Utah
Last seen: 20 years, 11 months
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #363189 - 07/30/01 05:16 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Damn Innvertigo, no matter how many times you are totally proven wrong, you always come back for more don't you. I just read this whole thread and you seem like the biggest redneck biggot I have met. SHEEESHH
I am a straight male. Yes the thought of one man fucking another in the ass is very VERY disturbing. So what do I do, I DON'T GO OUT AND RENT GAY PORN, i don't look at it. I don't think about it. If two men want to make love to eachother (yes it is still considered making love in my mind) Let them, I have nothing against that. If they want to marry, LET THEM. Its not hurting my chances of getting me a wife, and it doesn't make me fear for my children being raped by these people, and I am in no way thinking of converting myself to being gay just because it may be the "HIP" thing to do. As long as it is not rubbed in my face (or other places) I couldn't give a shit less what they do. They are still a part of the community and the world. I don't want gays to have more rights than straights but I can't stand hearing the word FAGGOT used at someone in a vain way. It is extremely rude, and very primitive. 100 years from now the history books will read about the time when gays were beaten and lynched and discriminated against for being different. And people like Invertigo, with there priimitive caveman biblical views will be looked upon like the slaverunners from the south are from the 1800's

Now I know you are probably a really great guy, Invertigo, who just likes to get his point across, and I repect you for that. I am sorry for what I have said about you, but I like to get my point across too.

~Prying open my third eye.~



--------------------
~Prying open my third eye.~



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OfflineDinoMyc
Ipsa scientiapotestas est
Registered: 11/14/99
Posts: 1,080
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Taz]
    #363197 - 07/30/01 05:48 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

So, i would suppose that you have read the bible, and adhear strictly to it? Or have you read a distortion and interpretation of the bible?
I would be willing to wager a large sum that you cannot, and will never be able to read the true bible. never!
you neither speak the language, nor possess the text from which to read.
what basis do you have for your claims?
go take history.. of the world... it will take you several years to catch up... if you ever could.. you seem too far entrenched to ever see again the light of day.
do you believe in statistics? Young White Male Heterosexuals commit the vastly disproportionate majority of all sexual crimes.. Bigotry and ignorance such as yours has brought us such atrocities as genocide the world over time and time again, why does noone learn?
The bible is fraught with acts that today would be considered great sin, and as listed they are treated as acceptable: incest, murder, violence..
so you went to bible school, i suppose in english? do you know how many major changes are made in any version you could ever have read? most blantant are the changed such important pieces as the ten commandments..
have some dignity, show some respect.. you are not allways correct, your far from perfect.. "pot calling the kettle black" comes to mind..
why are you actively starting a thread like this?

If I made affront, I apologize.
If I made affirmation, I apologize.
I merely came to listen, came to say.


--------------------
If I made affront, I apologize.
If I made affirmation, I apologize.
I merely came to listen, came to say.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: surfacing0]
    #363424 - 07/30/01 03:20 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

****Damn Innvertigo, no matter how many times you are totally proven wrong, you always come back for more don't you****

Hmmmm i was proven wrong? So tell me where was i proven wrong?

****I just read this whole thread and you seem like the biggest redneck biggot I have met. SHEEESHH ****

And you seem like an apropriate Puppet...i really like the fact that you opened up a new account to try to get your point across...nice try...

****I am a straight male****

I doubt it...

****As long as it is not rubbed in my face (or other places) I couldn't give a shit less what they do****

well unfortunatly it is rubbed in OUR face when we (as tax payers) are forced to accept this through SPECIAL rights. If you really read this whole topic then you'd know we've been through this. You're either illiterate or just lying..which one is it?

****And people like Invertigo, with there priimitive caveman biblical views will be looked upon like the slaverunners from the south are from the 1800's ****

Well i'm from the north. ( i thought you read the posts?) and why are my views primitive because i think it's wrong? The funny thing is that homo's get more acceptance then people who are trying to live a moral life within their perspective religions.

As for the rest of your post you said you want to get your point across and your point eludes me. Your post was a conglomeration of opinions that prove nothing. Maybe in the future you will read all the posts and we can have a real discussion.

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinesurfacing0
member
Registered: 07/29/01
Posts: 96
Loc: Utah
Last seen: 20 years, 11 months
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #363642 - 07/31/01 12:02 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

First off, I didn't become a member to badmouth you Invertigo, you really aren't that important. I got in because I am a long time grower of the sacred fungi, but haven't done it for a long time. I am just about to start a new batch, and wanted some opinions on a different board. I just stumbled across this board, and seeming how I love to debate, decided to check it out. Anyways, on with the reply.
The reason some "homos" get more rights than "people who are trying to live a moral life within their perspective religions" is because they are better people. I'm not saying all gay people are good, and all religious people are bad, but the opposite isn't right at all. I am from Utah (Mormon captial of the world) Raised around straight, strict Mormon people, some of them are the most evil things your god could have came up with. In your quotes you kept saying "wheres your proof gays are born that way" I don't see why it matters, really? What is so wrong with that? My main question to you Invertigo is what are the taxpayers losing? I haven't heard any ordinaces that say "5 million tax payer dollars to gays." I am not being sarcastic, I just would like to know some facts on this. I think it's wrong for taxpayers to support religious causes, but we are constantly paying endless amounts to Mormon funds, along with other churches. Like right now, The LDS Church(mormon) is tearing apart a part of our Main Street and replacing it with a park for the church, AT TAXPAYER EXPENSES!!!!!!! Yet this park will not allow any loud music, smoking, big groups(without church supervisions) and LOITERING of young people. Its basically recess for church going citizens on a Sunday afternoon, This is what my money is going to. I'd much rather have a park with gay people than this. I can get along with gay people. I don't have any gay friends, but when there is someone gay around I don't point and stare, I don't care. Same as if someone from a different race was around. How do you act around them? Have you ever talked to someone who was openly gay? Just a few questions for you.

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Invisibleisis
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #363670 - 07/31/01 12:34 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

You are correct DinoMyc.It is this type of adherance to an interpretation of Gods word that has caused great pain, suffering and destruction of any one or anything that God's people disagree with. Right or Wrong. Gods word has been used to support so many disgraceful deeds. Slavery was Ok because some folks decided the bible said it was OK. The KKK used scriptures to defend their actions. The Catholics and the Protestants are still killing themselves..they serve the same God. Our ancestors came here destroyed the native Indians in the name of God. It is no different today. The Church and it's members continue their practice of using Gods word to destroy anything or anyone they disagree with. They leave a wake of destruction in their path. I imagine it doesn't have to be that way, but that's how people use it. I guess it depends on which view you like better: the destructive God of the old testament, or the loving God of the new testament. Either way,the history of their deeds speak louder than their words. I won't even go into the history of the catholic church.(same god)It's not appealing to me anymore. I actually find it appaling. If you put a list together of all of the atrocities commited by all of the churches that worship this one God, the christian God,it would be an disgusting list indeed. So, Iam actually proud not to be part of this group of people anymore. History usually proves that they supported the wrong side .That they did not help the weak. Instead, the catholic church sided with Hitler. Instead of helping the slaves, they believed God meant for those people to be in chains...I simply cannot support anything that is so destructive and evil. I do consider organized religion to be one of the greater evils, and I just do not see how it can all be justified.
I don't see much difference in what the church is doing now and what they have done in the past.
I am not saying that all God believing people are evil. But organized religion is.
If the chuch says homosexuality is wrong, then I say it's Ok.
Because by taking the opposite side I'm probably right.

Edited by isis on 07/30/01 04:48 PM.



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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: surfacing0]
    #364023 - 07/31/01 03:20 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

****The reason some "homos" get more rights than "people who are trying to live a moral life within their perspective religions" is because they are better people****

Hence your inability to have an open mind. This has to be the dumbest thing i've heard anyone ever say on this topic...i thought you like to debate? First off I'll repeat my stance since you either choose to or just can read the previous posts. I don't hate gays, homo's or whatever you want to cal IT. I hate the ACT. Gays are equal to others as people in the eyes of God and myself.

****I'm not saying all gay people are good, and all religious people are bad, but the opposite isn't right at all****

You contradict yourself..but i'm not surprised. I find it hilarious that people like you claim that the people who are trying to live a moral life think they are better then the rest. That fact is that people are upset that these people don't accept the fact that being Gay is just plain discusting in their minds (THE ACT of being gay).

****Raised around straight, strict Mormon people. some of them are the most evil things your god could have came up with****

so?? There are gays who are the most evil things along with blacks, whites, chinese, russians, yadda, yadda, yadda. Are you sure you can debate? You are painting a group of people with a rather broad brush but again i'm not surprised.

****In your quotes you kept saying "wheres your proof gays are born that way" I don't see why it matters, really? ****

sigh............it does matter if you read the previous posts...the topic switched to "are gays born or is it a choice". So when discussing this topic it does matter.

****My main question to you Invertigo is what are the taxpayers losing? ****
****I haven't heard any ordinaces that say "5 million tax payer dollars to gays." I am not being sarcastic****

No you're being naive

Well when there are city ordinances giving gays special rights (see the city of Royal Oak, in michigan) the taxpayers ARE losing. Many people disagree with religion and many disagree with homo's.....so who has the right to push their beliefs on the other group? Affirmative action programs also tip the scales as well so it effects tax payers as well.

****I think it's wrong for taxpayers to support religious causes****

I agree......But is ok for taxpayers to support gay causes?

****The LDS Church(mormon) is tearing apart a part of our Main Street and....****

I can careless about the Mormon church...sounds like a taxpayer and voters problem.

***I'd much rather have a park with gay people than this. I can get along with gay people. I don't have any gay friends***

then how do you know?

****Have you ever talked to someone who was openly gay? Just a few questions for you****

As a matter of fact i run across them every day in my day to day business. I'm professional during and after hours towards them. They know i don't agree with what they do but as a person i treat them as i do any other person. I don't know why this is so hard for people like you to understand? There are people that i disagree with that are still my friends...does that answer your questions?

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: isis]
    #364676 - 08/01/01 07:22 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Are you responding to me and why the sudden switch to religion as the main topic?

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Weardo]
    #364678 - 08/01/01 07:25 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

my faith will NEVER faulter and hasn't one bit..sorry

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleBeery
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #364802 - 08/01/01 10:47 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

I love it when Christian religious nuts start bringing religion into their anti-gay bigotry. The fact is, the Bible does not condemn homosexuality. There are only two references to it in the Bible. One of them is a condemnation of homosexuality in Leviticus, while the other is a reference to that same condemnation. The only problem is, Leviticus is superceded by the New Covenant in Jesus Christ which expressly denies the validity of the old laws.

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Beery]
    #364808 - 08/01/01 11:04 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

****I love it when Christian religious nuts start bringing religion into their anti-gay bigotry****

I aslo love it when moron sockpuppets come out of the woodwork to put their 2 cents in without knowing what stance people have. I find in hilarious that if you don't agree with the gay agenda you're considered a biggot.

****The fact is, the Bible does not condemn homosexuality. There are only two references to it in the Bible. One of them is a condemnation of homosexuality in Leviticus****

The fact is that both of those instances condem "lying with your brother". You are twisting the meanings just as others have said such extremist groups like the christion right, KKK and Southern Babtist......too bad i am neither so your point is mute. I disagree with gays because i think it's discusting (the ACT of being gay..NOT the person who is gay)...nothing more.

I think you need to read up a little more before putting in your 2 cents because i'm growing tired of having to constantly repeat myself.

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleBeery
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #364815 - 08/01/01 11:19 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

"I aslo love it when moron sockpuppets come out of the woodwork to put their 2 cents in without knowing what stance people have'

Hehe, seems I've touched a nerve there. You might want to calm down a bit. Maybe you'll realise that I'm not singling anyone out. I'm merely making an observaton.

"The fact is that both of those instances condem "lying with your brother"."

No they don't. One condemns it, the other makes reference to it. Unfortunately for your argument, Leviticus is clearly superceded. See Hebrews 8:13.

"I disagree with gays because i think it's discusting"

That's your opinion. Don't try to make the Bible agree with you, 'cos it doesn't. As a supposed Christian, you should be ruled by Christian tolerance, not ancient Jewish laws that Christ threw out because they were 'out of date'.

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Beery]
    #365359 - 08/02/01 03:03 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

****Hehe, seems I've touched a nerve there. You might want to calm down a bit. Maybe you'll realise that I'm not singling anyone out. I'm merely making an observaton.****

Not really...you don't have the shills to make me angry...i believe it's more pity than anger. The funny thing is i'm singling you out....if you intend on not singling people out then you might want to watch WHO you're responding too. Your observation shows that you're ignorant....don't feel bad i'm sure you'll get used to it.

****No they don't. One condemns it, the other makes reference to it. Unfortunately for your argument, Leviticus is clearly superceded. See Hebrews 8:13****

Yes they do. You said that the second incidence contridicts the first and you know that's wrong. Quite trying to make the bible fit YOUR beliefs.

****That's your opinion. Don't try to make the Bible agree with you****

Nowhere in the bible does it say that being gay is discusting..that's my reaction to it. The wacko left thinks that people who are anti gay (the ACT) are guided like a beakon in the night by the bible where our opinions are based off the bible...my opinions are based off my observations...it's too bad your so closed minded about that.

****As a supposed Christian, you should be ruled by Christian tolerance, not ancient Jewish laws that Christ threw out because they were 'out of date'****

It's funny that someone from the wacko left mentions tolerance when in fact you are doing just what you say christians do? I know the answer.......your a hypocrite. That's not surprising since those who are against homo's are always told that they need tolerance and the homo's are never told to have tolerance for their believes.......

You are a walking contridiction.

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleBeery
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #365428 - 08/02/01 05:56 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

"you don't have the shills to make me angry...i believe it's more pity than anger."

Well, whatever it is, you do appear to be in an emotional state.

"The funny thing is i'm singling you out....if you intend on not singling people out then you might want to watch WHO you're responding too."

Yes, I chose to respond to your post, but that doesn't mean I'm singling you out. My post was directed at all right wing Christian wackos, not just you. I think you may be a bit paranoid.

"Your observation shows that you're ignorant....don't feel bad i'm sure you'll get used to it. "

Well, ignorance is far better than stupidity.

"...You said that the second incidence contridicts the first and you know that's wrong. Quite trying to make the bible fit YOUR beliefs. "

No I did NOT say that the first incidence contradicts the first. It might be better if you'd read AND UNDERSTAND my post before responding to it. Hebrews 8:13 renounces Old Testament law. The passages relating to homosexuality are Leviticus 20:13 (where it is condemned) and Romans 1:26-27 (which refers to homosexuals who broke that law).

"Nowhere in the bible does it say that being gay is discusting..that's my reaction to it."

Yes, but that's just your opinion. I hate spiders, but I don't feel the need to go on and on about it, because I know my hatred and fear of them is irrational. Your hatred and fear of homosexuals is irrational too. You just refuse to admit it and instead you cite the Bible in an attempt to justify your irrational feelings of disgust.

"The wacko left thinks that people who are anti gay (the ACT) are guided like a beakon in the night by the bible where our opinions are based off the bible...my opinions are based off my observations...it's too bad your so closed minded about that. "

Well, I'm not the one who brought religion into this. Besides, what observations would these be? Perhaps my 'closed mindedness' can be put on hold for a second while we explore the basis of your 'discust'.

"It's funny that someone from the wacko left mentions tolerance when in fact you are doing just what you say christians do?

"What I say Christians do"? I've never characterized 'Christians'. I characterized the so-called 'Christian' religious right, which is actually not Christian.

"I know the answer.......your a hypocrite."

In what regard am I a hypocrite? Besides, it's funny that you should level a charge of hypocrisy when you claim to be a Christian, but you find homosexual acts 'discusting'.

"That's not surprising since those who are against homo's are always told that they need tolerance and the homo's are never told to have tolerance for their believes.."

What beliefs do 'homos' have that show intolerance? You seem to know a lot of these 'homos'. Are you sure you don't feel drawn to their lifestyle - maybe that's why you recoil in disgust. You need to accept who you are rather than stifling it.

"You are a walking contridiction."

Hehe, a professed Christian homophobe telling me that I'm a walking contradiction. Boy, I've heard everything now.

Tell me, how is it exactly that I'm a 'walking contradiction'? You seem very eager to make accusations, but you don't seem to want to back up your accusations with facts, reason, or logic.

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Edited by Beery on 08/02/01 10:45 AM.



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OfflineDinoMyc
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #365438 - 08/02/01 06:08 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

im not going to comment any farther than this:
think of two children, argueing with each other:
"i know you are, but what am I?"
<<Yes they do. You said that the second incidence contridicts the first and you know that's wrong. Quite trying to make the bible fit YOUR beliefs. >>

just an observation, you can believe whatever you wish.

If I made affront, I apologize.
If I made affirmation, I apologize.
I merely came to listen, came to say.


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InvisibleBeery
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: DinoMyc]
    #365444 - 08/02/01 06:13 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Actually, I'm using reason, logic, and sources to back up my argument, while my opponent is merely using prejudice.

Please don't condemn me out of hand based on your own prejudices

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Beery]
    #365461 - 08/02/01 06:54 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

****Well, whatever it is, you do appear to be in an emotional state. ****

no..i would consider myself rational not emotianal..please don't flatter yourself

****Well, ignorance is far better than stupidity****

and you seem to being a good job walking that line

****Your hatred and fear of homosexuals is irrational too. You just refuse to admit it and instead you cite the Bible in an attempt to justify your irrational feelings of disgust. ****

Am i missing something or are you illiterate? When did i say i HATE the people who are homosexuals? And fear/ what does fear have to do with anything. The left wing wackjobs like to say if you don't except our why you're scared of it. That's plain stupid.

Who's citing the bible? you are not I...I base my beliefs from observations not the bible..get over it. I don't use the bible to make homosexuality discusting...gays do a great job themselves

***Well, I'm not the one who brought religion into this****

Nor did i at the beginning

****while we explore the basis of your 'discust'****

2 men having anal sex, kissing, flamming out and blowing each other is just plain discusting......yet again i'll repeat it again..i hate the ACT not the man....understand?

****In what regard? Besides, it's funny that you should level a charge of hypocrisy when you claim to be a Christian, but you find homosexuals 'discusting'. *****

In the reguard that they (the gays) don't accept the beliefs of those that oppose being gay but we are supposed to accept their beliefs...is this hard to understand?

where's the hypocracy? What people who believe in God can't accuse lefties of being a hypocrite. I hope your not thinking i'm the kind of person who doesn't judge people because i do...and i have no problem doing it either. I don't live a life of the "perfect christian" so you might as well drop the idea that those that believe in God are passive and accepting of the gay way of life.

****but you find homosexuals 'discusting'.****

sigh...........i hate the act of homo sexuals not the person doing it.....we all make mistakes....even christians.

****What beliefs do 'homos' have that show intolerance? *****

That many "christian" organizations find homosexuality very, very wrong...ass opposed to accepting the choice that the gays have made......hell i remember once when i was in the church and the preist sad "Hate the Sin..not the sinner" towards homosexuality.

****You seem to know a lot of these 'homos'****

not really..i've only known you for a day or two.

****Hehe, a Christian homophobe telling me that I'm a walking contradiction. Boy, I've heard everything now. *****

how is a christian who doesn't agree with homosexuality a contridiction?...you've lost me there

****Actually, I'm using reason, logic, and sources to back up my argument****

the only sorce you mentioned was the bible and i believe i made myself somewhat clear to where i base my opinions. As forreason and logic..ha ha ha..that's a good one

****while my opponent is merely using prejudice****

i'm not prejudice towards gays...it's what they do

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

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Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleBeery
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #365506 - 08/02/01 08:04 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

"Am i missing something or are you illiterate? ...The left wing wackjobs like to say if you don't except our why you're scared of it. That's plain stupid. "

Erm, calling me names isn't going to make you look any smarter. I'm quite certain of my not being illiterate, ignorant, or stupid. Usually, those accusations are bandied about by those to whom they apply.

"Who's citing the bible? you are not I..."

Erm. So far you've cited the bible at least twice in defence of your argument. Heck, you even quoted the bible:. You said 'both of those instances condem "lying with your brother"'. You also said 'You said that the second incidence contridicts the first and you know that's wrong'. Those are instances of you citing the bible in defence of your point. It seems clear now that not only are your arguments illogical, but you also have problems remembering what you write from one day to the next.

"I don't use the bible to make homosexuality discusting...gays do a great job themselves"

How?

***Well, I'm not the one who brought religion into this****

"Nor did i at the beginning "

I never said you did.

"2 men having anal sex, kissing, flamming out and blowing each other is just plain discusting......yet again i'll repeat it again..i hate the ACT not the man....understand? "

Yes, you have to repeat it, but not because I'm stupid, ignorant, or illiterate. You see your opinion regarding gays is illogical. Your argument seems to go something like this:

Gays engage in anal intercourse. Anal intercourse is disgusting. Gay acts are disgusting

The problem is, not all gays engage in the acts you describe, and some heterosexuals do. Why are you targeting gays for acts, many of which are enjoyed by heterosexual folks? Do you think straight sex is disgusting too?

"... they (the gays) don't accept the beliefs of those that oppose being gay but we are supposed to accept their beliefs...is this hard to understand? "

It's hard to understand why you find the above so hypocritical. Gays don't have to be accepting of the beliefs of those who oppose being gay. There's no gay philosophy that preaches tolerance. However, Christianity demands tolerance.

"...I hope your not thinking i'm the kind of person who doesn't judge people because i do...and i have no problem doing it either."

So you admit you're not a Christian.

"I don't live a life of the "perfect christian""

Sounds to me like you don't live the life of a Christian at all.

"...so you might as well drop the idea that those that believe in God are passive and accepting of the gay way of life. "

Those who believe in Christ actively (not passively) accept the gay way of life. Christ demands it. That's not to say that Christians have to BE gay, but they have to accept gays into the community.

"sigh...........i hate the act of homo sexuals not the person doing it.....we all make mistakes....even christians. "

That's very clear.

"...many "christian" organizations find homosexuality very, very wrong...ass opposed to accepting the choice that the gays have made......hell i remember once when i was in the church and the preist sad "Hate the Sin..not the sinner" towards homosexuality. "

Homosexuality is not a sin. Intolerance is.

****You seem to know a lot of these 'homos'****

"not really..i've only known you for a day or two. "

Hehe, my wife will get a kick out of that one. I love it when folks make assumptions about my sexuality just because I defend homosexuality. Again, we see your use of illogic:

'Beery defends gay people, therefore Beery is gay.'

Now we can see how easy it is for you to think you know something about someone when you don't know a thing. Again, that's evidence of how you arrive at conclusions using illogic and unreason.

"how is a christian who doesn't agree with homosexuality a contridiction?...you've lost me there "

Christianity and intolerance are mutually exclusive. You can't be one and the other at the same time. You have to decide whether to be a Christian or whether to be intolerant.

"the only sorce you mentioned was the bible and i believe i made myself somewhat clear to where i base my opinions. "

You made it clear that you base your opinions on observation, but that isn't a valid reason. Besides, how many homosexual acts have you witnessed? It seems to me that it's unlikely that you've ever witnessed a homosexual act. If that's the case, how could you base your opinion on observation?

"As forreason and logic..ha ha ha..that's a good one "

I hardly think you're qualified to judge.

****while my opponent is merely using prejudice****

"i'm not prejudice towards gays...it's what they do"

What? I'm sorry, but does that non-sentence make any point?

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Edited by Beery on 08/02/01 12:26 PM.



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InvisibleBeery
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Beery]
    #365527 - 08/02/01 08:36 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

I'm afraid you're going to have to explain to me how you logically get to your opinion that 'gay acts are disgusting'. Best to bring in some reality to the discussion, rather than opinion and subjective observation.

Oh, and I'd love you to try to prove to me your assertion that I'm actually gay, just using my past posts from which to base a logical argument. Of course, I'm asking for the impossible, but watching you try would be fun.

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Invisiblesuperpimp
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: isis]
    #365574 - 08/02/01 09:36 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

I hate Clinton, but that cartoon sucks. I'm not even sure what the point of it is. Who is driving the sub exactly, and why does it have an Oakland Raiders logo on the periscope. Ayway, I can't complain about any of Clinton's policies, cause he never had any, and the stuff he did believe in, he could never turn it into policy because he was so inept. I am looking forward to the next twenty years of him though, because it will be fun to watch his endlessly buffoonish behavior now that he is out of office and can't do any damage anymore.

I did acid once, white boy gave it to me. He said "you gonna be trippin", I said Shit, I ain't goin' nowhere without my luggage. -Richard Pryor


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Beery]
    #366119 - 08/03/01 03:24 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

****I'm afraid you're going to have to explain to me how you logically get to your opinion that 'gay acts are disgusting'****

Do i have to repeat myself again? I find two men having sex discusting. It's as simple as that...it's called an opinion. I don't need to explain WHY i observe the things i do. I gues if i have to explain why i am the way i am then i would have to say that it's not natural. They can't produce offspring for one thing...just the thought of it is making me sick. The thought of them having sex (they do have the right to do in their own privacy) just irks me to the bone. I by no means think that they should stop it because i think it's discusting...they have the right to do what they want, just as i have the right to think what i think.

****Best to bring in some reality to the discussion, rather than opinion and subjective observation. ****

well actually the beginning of this debate the question was if it was a choice to be gay or is it a born trait. I proclaim it's a choice. So far their has been no evidence on the contrary.

****Oh, and I'd love you to try to prove to me your assertion that I'm actually gay****

It's called a joke..i don't really think your gay but MAN you sure are sensative around that subject so ya never know...sheesh relax you don't have to explain.....

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleBeery
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #366132 - 08/03/01 04:33 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

"Do i have to repeat myself again?"

Apparently.

"I find two men having sex discusting. It's as simple as that...it's called an opinion. I don't need to explain WHY i observe the things i do."

You do if you expect to be taken seriously. You keep saying that you 'observe' these things. How many gay people have you observed engaging in 'gay acts'? Since you place so much emphasis on your observations you must have seen plenty. Or perhaps you're speaking from personal experience? Or maybe you're just lying - maybe to you 'observation' is merely another word for 'prejudice'.

"I gues if i have to explain why i am the way i am then i would have to say that it's not natural."

But that's not true. Male chimpanzees have been observed engaging in anal intercourse in the wild.

"They can't produce offspring for one thing..."

So what? Humans engage in sex primarily for pleasure, not only to produce offspring.

"just the thought of it is making me sick. The thought of them having sex (they do have the right to do in their own privacy) just irks me to the bone."

So what? Why do we have to know what your personal opinions are on this matter (especially since you grant that they have the right to do it)? The taste of Brussels Sprouts makes me sick, but I don't find myself going on about it in public forums.

"I by no means think that they should stop it because i think it's discusting...they have the right to do what they want, just as i have the right to think what i think."

You have every right to think what you think. But bringing your thoughts to a public forum such as this means that you want to disseminate your ideas. If your ideas are patently wrong and poorly thought out, it's my duty (not just my right) to criticise those ideas. Also, if you bring your ideas into a public forum, you should be willing to accept criticism and defend your ideas using logic. Unfortunately, you aren't prepared to do so. You know what they say about opinions - they're like assholes - everyone has one. The fact that you have an opinion is no argument. The fact that you back up your opinion with vague talk about 'observation' doesn't help, and the fact that you call people who disagree 'stupid' (1 instance), 'ignorant' (3 instances) and 'illiterate' (2 instances) only serves to make you look stupid yourself, especially since your spelling leaves something to be desired.

****Best to bring in some reality to the discussion, rather than opinion and subjective observation. ****

"well actually the beginning of this debate the question was if it was a choice to be gay or is it a born trait. I proclaim it's a choice. So far their has been no evidence on the contrary."

So what? The question is irrelevant.

****Oh, and I'd love you to try to prove to me your assertion that I'm actually gay****

"It's called a joke..i don't really think your gay but MAN you sure are sensative around that subject so ya never know...sheesh relax you don't have to explain....."

Even if I was gay, it wouldn't make any difference to the validity of my argument. You always need to turn to (supposed) insult (NEWSFLASH - I'm not insulted by accusations of being gay) and false characterizations when you're losing the argument. You keep characterizing me using various words or phrases that you think will irk me. It hasn't worked yet, and the more you post, the plainer your ignorance and bigotry becomes to the (very) few who care to read this thread.

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Invisiblesuperpimp
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Beery]
    #366146 - 08/03/01 05:13 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

People who spend as much time as you do obsessing on gay people usually have a lot of personal issues about the subject that they have to work out for themselves. Most of the guys I knew in High School who were avid queer stompers eventually came to accept their desire for man to man love by their mid 20's. I think you secretly crave cock. Think about it.

I did acid once, white boy gave it to me. He said "you gonna be trippin", I said Shit, I ain't goin' nowhere without my luggage.
-Richard Pryor


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OfflinePhyl
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Beery]
    #366148 - 08/03/01 05:17 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

You do if you expect to be taken seriously.

Different people have different opinions. Simple as that. I don't agree with Innvertigo's opinon on this matter, but there is no point arguing as to who is right and who is wrong. There is no right or wrong about it.

Personally I don't have any kind of problems with homosexuality, I think it's fine between consenting adults. I do however have a problem with beastiality. I think its disgusting, just as Innvertigo thinks homosexuality is disgusting, yet many people see both as perfectly acceptable sexual behaviour. We all make our own judgements based on our own beliefs, and we all create our own lines differentiating between what is right and wrong. Can we not just accept that? To discriminate against a person because of their sexual (or other) beliefs is definately wrong, but as innvertigo has also stated this, and says that it's only the 'act' of homosexual sex that he finds disgusting, I really dont see what the issue is.

Take care

Phil



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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Beery]
    #366152 - 08/03/01 05:22 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

****Apparently****

maybe your short term memory is faultering...my mistake i'll try to type things twice for you.

****You do if you expect to be taken seriously****

my goal isn't to be taken serious by you...you don't hold that much interest..sorry to burst your bubble

****How many gay people have you observed engaging in 'gay acts'? ****

observations don't have to be first person..my observations on abortion are that it's wrong but i've never seen one done.

****Or perhaps you're speaking from personal experience? Or maybe you're just lying ****

Talk about the Pot calling the kettle black..sheesh did my comments bother you that much? Sheesh relax if your lashing out at me to hide something you can stop now...you don't need to explain...

****Why do we have to know what your personal opinions are on this matter ****

you asked smart guy...wow are you slow. If you don't want to know something then don't ask. Is that simple enough for ya?

****But that's not true. Male chimpanzees have been observed engaging in anal intercourse in the wild****

They are animals not humans...are you saying gays are animals? Because i certainly don't..talk about bigotry..sheesh

****The taste of Brussels Sprouts makes me sick, but I don't find myself going on about it in public forums****

i like brussel sprouts and you can go on about it as long as you like..you have that right...

****You have every right to think what you think. But bringing your thoughts to a public forum such as this means that you want to disseminate your ideas***

Well first off you asked. You have a bad habit of asking things you really don't want to know...nothing says that you have to read these messages...you have the right to turn off your computer if you like. Noones forcing you to read it.

****If your ideas are patently wrong and poorly thought out****

how can opinions be wrong?...talk about a fun governor....relax

****you should be willing to accept criticism and defend your ideas using logic. Unfortunately, you aren't prepared to do so****

I do accept criticism but that doesn't mean that i have to accept it. Are you a control freak? If asked my opinion then you HAVE to accept it as MY opinion. If you want to debat the original intent of theis forum "ARE GAYS BORN THAT WAY OR IS IT A CHOICE" Then i am game..i'm noticing a trend coming from you that is trying to avoid it..why?

****'ignorant' (3 instances) ****

ignorant means you don't know...is that an insult?...i guess i could count the times you've used bigot and predjudice but what would be the point..man are you sensative.

****especially since your spelling leaves something to be desired****

Oh man now you'r knocking my grammer..ahhhhhhhhhhhh. that's low and that hurts. man am i depressed now.

iz tis bettr?

I guess that shows just how petty your observations are.

****So what? The question is irrelevant****

well you know that was the discussion and if you'd like to discuss it then fine if not then you really don't have to get involved if you don't like it

****Even if I was gay, it wouldn't make any difference to the validity of my argument****

man are you hiding something? I said you weren't gay drop it..man are you paranoid...or are you? hmmmm

****NEWSFLASH - I'm not insulted by accusations of being gay****

yet you find every instance to deny it..relax your hetro

****You keep characterizing me using various words or phrases that you think will irk me. It hasn't worked yet, and the more you post, the plainer your ignorance and bigotry becomes to the (very) few who care to read this thread.****

You guessed it. That was my plan all along. I wanted to make you mad at me....your not that important


Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleBeery
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Phyl]
    #366159 - 08/03/01 05:33 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

"Different people have different opinions. Simple as that. I don't agree with Innvertigo's opinon on this matter, but there is no point arguing as to who is right and who is wrong. There is no right or wrong about it. "

But there is right and wrong about it. If no-one stands up to this kind of silliness there is no contrary position and these opinions get broadcast to a public who may not have an opinion on the matter and who may not be aware that this kind of anti-homosexuality is a minority view. Opinion can be persuasive, no matter how based in fact it may be. It is most certainly wrong to ignore flawed philosophy in the hope that it will go away. There are many examples in the past which show that bigotry has gone unnoticed too long, and before people really knew what was happening, it became state-sponsored bigotry. At that point people start dying. By then it's too late.

Evil flourishes only when good people do nothing to stop it.

Anyway I've said my piece. Innvertigo will keep posting his rubbish, but we all know he hasn't added a shred of evidence to support his conclusions, nor has he bothered to use logic to reach those conclusions. That's one definition of bigotry.

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Edited by Beery on 08/03/01 09:37 AM.



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OfflinePhyl
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Beery]
    #366182 - 08/03/01 06:11 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

But there is right and wrong about it. If no-one stands up to this kind of silliness there is no contrary position and these opinions get broadcast to a public who may not have an opinion on the matter and who may not be aware that this kind of anti-homosexuality is a minority view.

So what you're saying is that it's alright for you to have a contaraty opinon to him, but it's not alright for him to have a contarary opinion to you? Why? Because you are in the majority, so you must be right?
I remember seeing a quote in someones sig file over at the lycaeum which said something along the lines of 'Sometimes the majority just means that all the idiots are on the same side'.

Last time I looked we had the right to free will and free speech. We should be free to make our own opinions, and express our opinions to others. We are not babies, we do not need protecting from the 'Evil minorities'.

Without oposition, people are not able to create their own opinions. I say let innvertigo shout his head off. Let him express his opinions to the world. People will see his opinions, people will see your opinions, and will then make up their own minds.

You may believe your opinions are right and proper, and you are acting in the greater good, but no matter which side you are on, trying to force your opinions onto others is just wrong.

Anyway, this is all a bit irrelivent because Innvertigo isn't say he hates gays, he's saying that he finds the act disgusting. How is this different to you saying it's disgusting to give a horse a blow-job?

Take care

Phil

Edited by Phyl on 08/03/01 10:14 AM.



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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Beery]
    #366191 - 08/03/01 06:39 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Maybe it's a communication problem on my end..or maybe us both. I have people around me that are gay (meaning they work within day to day activities). Here's my stance.

1. I would hire a homosexual if they qualified for a job, not because they were gay
2. I have socialized with homosexuals in a social situation and was cutious
3. I think that they should be left alone by those that want to beat them up for it.
4. they have the same or should have the same human rights i do.
5. I think gays should be accepted for who they are and not because they are gay
6. I think gays should realize there are many people who are opposed to the gay lifestyle
7. By hating the Act and loving person shows tolerance
8. Christians have the right to express their opinions towards their lifestyle
9. I do not support the gay lifestyle, however i believe they should be allowed to do so
10. gays should show tolerance towards christians who don't support that way of live and visa versa.

i hope this clears it up for ya. Does this still make me a bigot?

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleBeery
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Phyl]
    #366380 - 08/04/01 12:22 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Beery: "But there is right and wrong about it. If no-one stands up to this kind of silliness there is no contrary position and these opinions get broadcast to a public who may not have an opinion on the matter and who may not be aware that this kind of anti-homosexuality is a minority view."

Phyl: "So what you're saying is that it's alright for you to have a contaraty opinon to him, but it's not alright for him to have a contarary opinion to you? "

Perhaps I should have used 'reactionary' rather than 'minority'. The point (which you seem to be missing) is that if his opinion went unanswered (as presumably it would be if I wasn't here), some folks might be of the opinion that it was a commonly held view on this forum that homosexuality was disgusting. That might have swayed some folks without an opinion on the matter to see that viewpoint as normal and perhaps even desirable as an opinion. It's not like it hasn't happened before, and on a larger scale.

It's not a question of freedom of speech. I'm not arguing that he should be quiet. On the contrary, I'm arguing that others should speak up!

Phyl: "Anyway, this is all a bit irrelivent because Innvertigo isn't say he hates gays, he's saying that he finds the act disgusting. How is this different to you saying it's disgusting to give a horse a blow-job?"

Firstly, I wouldn't necessarily say it was disgusting to give a horse a blow job. It's unethical, but whether it's disgusting is a matter of opinion. The point is, if we're going to shout opinions over the internet, we should be willing to defend them. Innvertigo is not. I am. That's the difference. Innvertigo engages in mindless rhetoric, I engage in reasoned debate. If you can't tell the difference, you're part of the exact problem I'm trying to illustrate.

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Edited by Beery on 08/03/01 04:35 PM.



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InvisibleCaptain Jack
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i think we should all shut the fuck up [Re: Beery]
    #366590 - 08/04/01 10:44 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

A) Leviticus should never be referenced for a moral code. Take the time to read the whole book. There's an awful lot in it about how to properly sacrifice animals when you sin. It says you can eat cows but not pigs. It's a pretty fucked book.

B) Another Bible tidbit: Judge not lest ye be judged. Good for all to think about, Christian or not. Saying that someone's lifestyle is disgusting (even if you're not hating the person, just the act) is a judgment. So is calling some ignorant and a bigot.

C) If you guys would stop trading stupid insults and worthless arguing (all the shit that has nothing to do with anything - debate about spelling, calling someone gay, etc), you would spend a lot less of your time in this stupid fucking post. You could I don't know....go outside or something.

D) Read the subject of my post.

http://www.captainjackmusic.com


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InvisibleBeery
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Re: i think we should all shut the fuck up [Re: Captain Jack]
    #366593 - 08/04/01 10:57 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Firstly, you're absolutely right about Leviticus. The Bible itself denies its validity (in the book of Hebrews).

Secondly, I don't think 'Judge not lest ye be judged' really applied to human characterizations like 'you're a bigot'. Christ called people worse names, as did the disciples, as did Paul. I think the passage more correctly applies to judgements that are rightfully the domain of God (i.e. sin). But you could be right. I haven't studied that passage in a while.

(later addition) You're right (I just looked at the passage again). Sorry about that. I should not have judged Innvertigo. That is not my right. We all are judged based on the judgement we mete out to others. Thanks for pointing that out to me.

Lastly, I agree with you on your point c. That's why I had stopped arguing with Innvertigo ("just when I thought I was out they pull me back in").

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Edited by Beery on 08/04/01 03:11 AM.



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Invisibleisis
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Re: i think we should all shut the fuck up [Re: Beery]
    #366907 - 08/05/01 05:57 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Just one thing about the choice issue: Do heterosexuals have a choice about their heterosexuality? Do you straight people feel that you have choosen to be straight? Can you turn around and suddendly become gay. I don't think you can.I don't think you want to,because you were probably born heterosexual. To suggest to me that I chose to be gay and thus can chose not to be is crazy. That's like me telling you, you can be gay. Would it sound ridiculous if I tried to convince you that you are a hetero by choice. Isn't liking women something that comes natural to you. It sounds so ridiculous to me when some one else tries to tell me the reasoning for my own actions. If I was bi-sexual then yes I would have a choice. But even then, you don't necessarily have control over who you fall in love with. Innvertigo, you have no knowledge about why gay people are gay or wether they have a choice or not. You are clueless on this matter.You state your opinion, and you have that right. The only thing you know is that you are straight and that is all you can understand. If you want to understand other people or what drives them then ask them. You should listen to their answers. Only a gay person can answer the question of was it your choice to be gay or were you born that way. You are not qualified to answer that. In a few post gay people have attemted to explain to you that they were born gay.You turn around and say no you were not.That's just ignorant. Now, how can I prove that I was born gay?I can't prove that to you.How can you prove that you were born straight?But when you have 5 yr olds already knowing they
are gay..You tell me.Is not like any of my friends had gay influences of any kind.No gay uncles,no gay movies,two straight married parents.Christian parents....Yet, it's the same story all of them knew at a very young age. How does this enviroment create a gay child?.
Now, if you don't like what two boys do together that is your right not to like it.If you don't like the idea of two women in bed, then fine. But it is mighty big of you to tell me that I don't know why I'm really gay.I was born gay. It's that simple.

Edited by isis on 08/04/01 10:10 PM.

Edited by isis on 08/04/01 10:19 PM.



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InvisibleBeery
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Re: i think we should all shut the fuck up [Re: isis]
    #366975 - 08/05/01 07:46 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

"Just one thing about the choice issue: Do heterosexuals have a choice about their heterosexuality? Do you straight people feel that you have choosen to be straight? "

How can anyone tell. Presumably, if it was some kind of 'choice', it could take years to manifest itself. There are basically 3 options - it could be a trait you're born with; it could be a learned trait, taking years from birth through adolescence; or it could be a simple choice.

Personally, I think the idea of it being a simple choice (like a flick of a switch) is laughable. The other alternatives are far more likely. Either way, the process is irrelevant. Once you're gay, you're gay. Once you're straight, you're straight. It doesn't matter how you get the way you are. What's important is that you're treated with the respect you deserve as a human being.

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Invisibleisis
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Re: i think we should all shut the fuck up [Re: Beery]
    #367061 - 08/05/01 11:46 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

You are right Berry. People should be treated with respect. Intolerance towards any group of good individuals is not acceptable.



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OfflineSir Tokes-A-Lot
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Taz]
    #371470 - 08/14/01 11:50 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

hey!!!what the fuck is wrong with israelis, huh? what is this shit about the israeli seal of approval?



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Invisibleisis
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Sir Tokes-A-Lot]
    #372640 - 08/16/01 06:19 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

LOL. I can't believe htis thread is still going.



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OfflineShiznitz
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Taz]
    #383486 - 09/02/01 04:09 AM (21 years, 28 days ago)

Isis, if U read the Bible like U claimed U have then U would know that homosexuality is listed as a sin.

Well, since there's already a tonne of posts, I didn't read them all but I just wanted to comment on what Taz said above ^ (I'm not sure if anyone already pointed this out).

Taz, eating mushrooms is a sin. Don't bash gays and tell them that they're sinning if you are sinning as well. The Bible wasn't meant to be taken literally. Most of the stuff in it didn't even happen. The Bible also says "let thee with no sins cast the first stone". Obviously, you have sinned, so don't point out other's "sins". Being gay isn't a sin. The Bible is so outdated, everything was a sin back then...

LEGALIZE...


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Invisibleisis
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Shiznitz]
    #383667 - 09/02/01 08:50 AM (21 years, 27 days ago)

Good point. I don't think that one has been pointed out yet.It's kinda funny. I remember thinking how strange that a law breaking shroomer could be so judgmental and righteous. I really don't care much about what the bible says. I think religion is a source of great evil and has caused much pain and harm. Sometimes I see how religious people treat those they dislike, and I make a mental note to never become that way.I live my life by a different standard.



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OfflineMrKurtz
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Taz]
    #385951 - 09/05/01 07:36 AM (21 years, 24 days ago)

This was such a long thread filled with alot of useless flaming(no pun intended) i didn't read it all, so I hope what I'm saying wasn't brought up earlier.

Well, I would just like to point out that what the bible says isnt necessarily the right thing, if I'm not mistaken (and I'm not) then people in the 19th century were justifying slavery through an obscure passage in the bible. I'll post it if I find it.
You can prove just about anything with the bible if you try hard enough.

And invertigo, where are the studies proving that gay people make a concious effort to become gay? Just because you say so, doesn't make it right. Now, like a few other people who probably wouldn't like to admit it, I did some experimenting, which just taught me I'm straight as an arrow. And if you're saying you made a conscious effort to lust after women (if you do at all) then you must be quite the idiot, actually wanting to be controlled by the opposite sex. If it was a conscious effort to choose what you were attracted to, I'm sure they're would be lots of people who would chose to not be sexually active whatsoever, cause I mean, your sex drive is just a choice right? And how you said, lots of gay people "embrace god" and become straight on a whim, and get married and have families, what you didn't say is gay men who do that have many affairs with other men, and just get married to have a nice cover-up. and if it was just a choice, why would so many gay teenagers commit suicide when they come to terms with who they are? they think they made the wrong choice so they can't take it back and they kill themselves? and you seem to be sticking to the point that people don't have any real proof that gay people are born gay, where's your proof that gay people make a concious choice? for someone who cares so much about proof, you provide very very little of your own. and, while I'm on the topic of proof, have you ever been on a farm or around animals for long peroids of time? (onces that still have they're sex organs that is) if have, you would probably notice that they sometimes have homosexual sex... and you think they chose to be gay right? because hell, you do know exactly what your talking about, and animals who's brains are not developed enough to have an ego make complex choices of what sexual orientation they will become when fully matured, because hell, sexuality is a conscious choice! I'm guessing you've heard of Allen Ginsberg also? (the fag poet, died a few years ago) if you've read alot of his poetry, you'd kind of get the picture that he enjoyed being gay, but only when he found acceptence in it. He even tried being straight, but it just didn't work, like just about every other gay person trying to be straight.

And about "gay sex being nasty", well, i doubt you would want to see any of your friends (guessing they're fat bald guys, after all, you are a conservative) having sex, now would you? And I don't doubt that the first time you saw a hardcore porn, you were quite horrified at what they were doing, and even before that, you probably thought kissing was gross! It's all a matter of what your accostumed to. If you've grown up your whole life thinking homosexuality is gross, and had nothing to combat that notion, well, believe it or not, it will seem gross to you! believe what you want, but don't go around disbelieving other people because of their "tainted" facts, when you have no facts of your own. at least try to keep an open mind...



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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: MrKurtz]
    #386137 - 09/05/01 03:56 PM (21 years, 24 days ago)

i thought this topic was dead?..i guess not. Next time brainchild respond to my post if you want me to answer


****And invertigo, where are the studies proving that gay people make a concious effort to become gay?****

Where is the evidence that it's a born trait?

****Just because you say so, doesn't make it right****

doesn't make it wrong either

****Now, like a few other people who probably wouldn't like to admit it, I did some experimenting, which just taught me I'm straight as an arrow****

or that you were willing to become gay..ie: choice

****And if you're saying you made a conscious effort to lust after women (if you do at all) then you must be quite the idiot, actually wanting to be controlled by the opposite sex. ****

What in the hell are you talking about? Looks as though there must be another idiot out there.

****I'm sure they're would be lots of people who would chose to not be sexually active whatsoever, cause I mean, your sex drive is just a choice right? ****

As a matter of fact it is a choice...there are many who choose to be non-sexual ie: nuns, priests etc.. and those who just don't like sex. I'm assuming your a young boy because your logic is greatly unfocused and foggy.

****And how you said, lots of gay people "embrace god" and become straight on a whim, and get married and have families, what you didn't say is gay men who do that have many affairs with other men, and just get married to have a nice cover-up****

Then we aren't talking about those who are sincere. I know i was. You are assuming that anyone that chooses to be gay cannot choose to be strait. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

****why would so many gay teenagers commit suicide when they come to terms with who they are? they think they made the wrong choice so they can't take it back and they kill themselves? ****

as do thousands of strait teenagers that suffer from depression. Again your logic is flawed.

****you seem to be sticking to the point that people don't have any real proof that gay people are born gay, where's your proof that gay people make a concious choice?****

You are repeating yourself....you should read your own posts. Look at your first question

****for someone who cares so much about proof, you provide very very little of your own****

I don't claim that being Gay is normal. I claim it's a choice. the burden of proof is on the gay community. I'm basing my opinion on the fact that gays want their lifestyle to be considered normal and mandated to be accepted.

****....ever been on a farm or around animals for long peroids of time? (onces that still have they're sex organs that is) if have, you would probably notice that they sometimes have homosexual sex****

we are not animals..apples and oranges

****I'm guessing you've heard of Allen Ginsberg also? (the fag poet, died a few years ago) if you've read alot of his poetry, you'd kind of get the picture that he enjoyed being gay, but only when he found acceptence in it. ****

Your basing your proof on a poet? that's sad....why did you call him a Fag? I thought it was ok to be a homosexual. tsk tsk

****like just about every other gay person trying to be straight.****

But it's natural if a strait chooses to be gay..er i mean becomes gay naturally. You are starting to amuse me.

****And about "gay sex being nasty", well, i doubt you would want to see any of your friends (guessing they're fat bald guys, after all, you are a conservative) having sex, now would you? ****

that made absolutly no sense whatsoever. I'm a libertarian (do you even know what that means?). Bald? ha ha..not really though i'm only 30 so talk to me in 10 years. But i forgot how beautiful Socialist Liberals are ie: Barbara Striesan(sp), Rosie O'Donal, Hillary Clinton, Joselyn Elders...i could go on but i'm about to throw-up

****And I don't doubt that the first time you saw a hardcore porn, you were quite horrified at what they were doing****

Actually i quite enjoy them with my wife

****If you've grown up your whole life thinking homosexuality is gross****

I have free choice and it is my opinion...you quite enjoy gay sex and you have that right to do it.

****but don't go around disbelieving other people because of their "tainted" facts, when you have no facts of your own. at least try to keep an open mind****

I can disbelieve anyone i want because 9 out of 10 times they can't proove a damn thing. My facts aren't the ones that need proving. I'm asking you to prove your stance that homosexuality is a born trait. Open mind? Liberals are the ones that refuse to open their minds and accept the fact that others don't except their beliefs. Ie: if you don't accept the gay life style you are close-minded....


I only answered this post because you are the example of what's wrong with public education. This has been done over and over again and you are just repeating what was already said. I did enjoy your broad generalizations and complete ignorance to the matter at hand and find you humorous...though very misinformed and a tad juvenile(sp)

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineoDin
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #386174 - 09/05/01 05:44 PM (21 years, 24 days ago)

whew that was a long ass read for a redneck...heres what we do: we raise an army of fags, then we invade the vatican...and the jimmy swaggart collesium and college. then when our forces reconsolidate and get matching outfits we go on a killling spree of chciken rapists of biblical proportions until all the bibles are burned.. and then the USA will truly be the bestest country in the world....no universe....still havent figored out an angle on how to deal with clinton...oh yeah while all thats going on all hot lezbians should hop in the sack with me so i can get in touch with my feminine side....yeah touch. oh yeah fuck bellarus

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i want candy


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Invisibleisis
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: oDin]
    #386402 - 09/06/01 01:19 AM (21 years, 24 days ago)

Innvertigo,
From what I've read, you want prove. Short of DNA evidence
stating that there is a genetic component to homosexuality,I'm afraid no one could offer you that prove at this point in time. Even in the light of a scientific discovery , I'd suspect you would probably be one of those people that would deny the scientific facts and still think that gays choose to be that way. Since you will not listen to the gay people themselves, I'm afraid we have no such hard core prove for you. Gender and sexuality are not written in stone when we are born.The sex we are born with may or may not be. Most of us are born male or female, but look at hemaprodites. Some of these childre are born with XX chromosomes and their genitalia may look mostly female.So we make this child into a little girl. We raise her like a little girl because her chromosomes tell us she is a girl. Yet, she grows up feeling like a little boy,and vise versa.Gender is a very complex issue and so is sexuality.There's much research to be done in this field of science, and I'm sure we will learn more and more as we advance.
I disagree with you in that we are animals. We belong to the animal kingdom.Homosexuality is a natural behavior exhibited by all groups of animals including man. Any behavior that man can do is natural. Unnatural are those things man cannot do. For example: it is not natural for us to fly,because we don't have wings. It is not natural for us to stay underwater for ten hours without the aid of an oxygen supply system, because our bodies are not capable.Short of things we cannot do, everything is natural. It is natural for us to do good things and bad things.That is just the nature of man. Wether or not you consider it immoral or not is a different subject.Morality is a judgement,and it has nothing to do with those things man can naturally do.



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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: isis]
    #386405 - 09/06/01 01:32 AM (21 years, 24 days ago)

The idea that homosexuality is a genetically inherited trait is homosexual propaganda. It was an idea fostered by homosexuals and endorsed by them in order to try to justify their perversion. They also reject moral coded and the Bible and organized religion in order to live with and justify their perversion.

There is no evidence that homosexuality is geneticaly related. There is also no evidence that it is not. So why do homosexuals continue to persist in saying that their 'lifestyle' is determined by their genes? Simple, so they can continue to justify their perversion to themselves and the public.

The vast majority of homosexual males (over 85%) were molested when they were children. That is one of the main ways people become homosexuals, and it's not genetic. It's also a fact.



--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: isis]
    #386501 - 09/06/01 04:19 AM (21 years, 24 days ago)

*****From what I've read, you want prove. Short of DNA evidence stating that there is a genetic component to homosexuality,I'm afraid no one could offer you that prove at this point in time. *****

CONGRATS WE HAVE A WINNER...That is my whole point. If homo's have the right to say that they were gay because of their genetics and have no proof, I have the right to say it was a choice with the same amount of proof. I was really wondering how long it would take you to come to that fact. I'm just surprised it was a homosexual who did it. Therefore all your accusations towards me are now on deaf ears..er, hands.

****Even in the light of a scientific discovery , I'd suspect you would probably be one of those people that would deny the scientific facts and still think that gays choose to be that way*****

You know what they say when you assume things......your argument falls apart. If it was done by a purely independant person or persons and i was deemed to be the mistaken one then i would have to admit my error....but i doubt i will need to worry about such an event.

****Gender and sexuality are not written in stone when we are born.****

You just got done saying that there was no proof. Which one is it then? Or do you enjoy being a living contradiction?

****but look at hemaprodites. Some of these childre are born with XX chromosomes and their genitalia may look mostly female.So we make this child into a little girl****

Apples and oranges. You are not a hemaprodite and that is a birth defect much like down's syndrome and mongloidism. It's truly sad i must agree but trying to compare it to a person of a determined sex is rediculus.

****Gender is a very complex issue and so is sexuality****

No it's not difficult to understand or even complex. However if you are gay i would see why you say such things.

****I disagree with you in that we are animals. *****

Then you'd be wrong. We have free will and a moral foundation animals do not. We have deminion over the animals. Unless you are saying that homos are animals.

****Any behavior that man can do is natural. Unnatural are those things man cannot do. For example: it is not natural for us to fly,because we don't have wings. It is not natural for us to stay underwater for ten hours without the aid of an oxygen supply system, because our bodies are not capable****

I hate to inform you but we do not fly. Airplanes do. Man invented airplanes ie: progression in human development. We don't spend 10 hours under water without the aid of oxygen. Man invented SCUBA gear...yet again human progression. Your examples are really poor because your entire argument is shot due to lack of any sort of proof and that was my intention at the begining of this argument to proove to you that you have no basis to your stance.

****It is natural for us to do good things and bad things****

True. we choose to do bad things and good things....that's my whole point. Welcome home!!!


Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Invisibleisis
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #386626 - 09/06/01 07:14 AM (21 years, 23 days ago)

You are correct, in that there is no confirmed scientific evidence as of yet. I can't deny that , but I think in the future that will change. But just because we have no hard scientific facts doesn't mean we are wrong.It just means we can't give you the proof you need at this point in time. My point on natural behavior vs unnatural was just that anything man can do is natural. Maybe I did not use the best examples,but I think you understand what I mean. People use the word natural and unnatural interchanged with moral and immoral and I feel that is a mistake.We have many natural behaviors that are good and some are bad. They are all still within the nature of man.So, yes you have the right to your opinion.No, I cannot prove to you beyond the shadow of the doubt that homosexuality is inherited, because science has not proven that yet. It's good to hear that you are open to accepting scientific prove.That may not come for years to come.
Remember that there have been many things that we as people have known to be true way before science could explain it.If it's all about choice then I don't feel that a persons sexual orientation is the choice. The true choices are are between happiness and unhappiness and being true to oneself vs living a life that is a lie. Each individual has a choice in that respect. Personally, I choose to be happy and be true to myself.Sure I could marry and live with some guy,but I would not be happy. I would also still be gay.I would just be gay married woman. So heck, you may even be right here. Yes, gay people do have a choice.They can chose to be happy,or they can choose to live a great big lie and conform to societies demands. They can pretend their entire lives that they are straight. They can get married and have kids. But why?Why should they live like that? Why should anybody gay or straight live a lie? It's not only a mess up deal for the gay individual,but also for their spouse and family.To each his own. Some gay people will do as some of you wish and pretend, but that is all they are doing. Personally ,I'm not one to sacrifice my happiness to make other people comfortable.

Edited by isis on 09/05/01 11:36 PM.

Edited by isis on 09/06/01 06:08 AM.



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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: isis]
    #386649 - 09/06/01 07:39 AM (21 years, 23 days ago)

isis,

You are correct, in that there is no confirmed scientific evidence as of yet.

Why do you believe that there ever will be scientific or even anecdotal evidence supporting the claim made by homosexual organizations that the homosexual 'lifestyle' is genetically inherited?

I think in the future that will change. But just because we have no hard scientific facts doesn't mean we are wrong.It just means we can't give you the proof you need at this point in time.

You hold such a certain view on the future of geneticaly proving that that homosexual sex is genetic. So certain are you! Did Miss Cleo tell you or did you read it in a homosexual newsletter?

My point on natural behavior vs unnatural was just that anything man can do is natural. Maybe I did not use the best examples,but I think you understand what I mean. People use the word natural and unnatural interchanged with moral and immoral and I feel that is a mistake.We have many natural behaviors that are good and some are bad. They are all still within the nature of man.I'm not specifically talking about homosexuality here.

It is the natue of man to choose to do good and evil. It is the nature of man to choose these things. Aren't you talking about homosexuality among other generalities? That was my impression.

I cannot prove to you beyond the shadow of the doubt that homosexuality is inherited, because science has not proven that yet.

You can not prove it beyond saying 'It is so inherited' or 'The gay newsletter from the rainbow rights rally says so'. You can not prove it at all yet you accept homosexuality being genetically inherited as fact based soley on a baseless and irrational faith in homosexuality.

Remember that there have been many things that we as people have known to be true way before science could explain it.

I agree that science has proven many things previously unknown.

If it's all about choice then I don't feel that a persons sexual orientation is the choice. The true choices are are between happiness and unhappiness and being true to oneself vs living a life that is a lie. Each individual has a choice in that respect. Personally, I choose to be happy and be true to myself.Sure I could marry and live with some guy,but I would not be happy. I would also still be gay.I would just be gay married woman.

I have noticed he tendency in the homosexual movement as well as in the 'pro-choice' movement to replace traditional morals with athiesm and the religion of the self and self gratification. It's a truely hollow belief system that I have observed brings tremendous dissapointment and bitterness in the long run.

Take care for now, RG



--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Invisibleisis
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #386671 - 09/06/01 08:10 AM (21 years, 23 days ago)

Ok Rail Gun:Prove to me that God exist and that the Bible is true. Someone please prove to me that god is real.The issue here seems to be based around morality. Morality in this cased has been based on the bible. So, prove that the basis for your judment is real.
ID="edit">Edited by isis on 09/06/01 12:13 AM.

Edited by isis on 09/06/01 12:17 AM.

Edited by isis on 09/06/01 12:17 AM.

Edited by isis on 09/06/01 12:18 AM.



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OfflineMrKurtz
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #386694 - 09/06/01 08:42 AM (21 years, 23 days ago)

alright, i do know i am juvenile, I'm fresh out of high school and don't take myself very seriously, and am not expecting anyone else to, I'm glad if you found my thoughts humorous.

Now, as for your breaking down of my "foggy" ideas, I'll actually edit my post this time, if it will please you more. have you ever had a priest as a good friend? do you realize how many of them still carry on sexual affairs, and the ones who don't must have some sort of sex drive, and the ones who don't have affairs still masturbate regularly, and if they're are ones who are actually sincere enough and have the amazing willpower required not to perform in any types of sexual acts, they are rare indeed. My mother once told me the story of how she was friends with a priest. when she met him he hit on her and only backed off because she was married. And the generalization of conservatives being fat and bald was a joke, and i made that point because i doubt anyone would enjoy watching their friends have sex (unless you have some unusually hot friends). Also, how you said you enjoy watching hardcore porn with your wife, i didn't say hardcore porn terrifies you now, im saying it probably did the first time you watched it, like it does with most people, telling me i didn't read my post and then not reading it yourself is a bit hipocritical. I just brought up saying that gay sex disgusts you (and just about every other person here who posted) because you are not used to it, or choose not to, like most people do, it really didn't have much to do with the topic but lots of people brought it up, was just explaining, and i don't enjoy gay sex, i think it's just as gross as watching any man(men) when they are having sex, times 2. I don't want to go into my personal life much farther, but because i've already brought it up, i have tried being gay, it scared the shit out of me, didn't work whatsoever, i only considered it because i was sick of women, and found out i don't really have a choice if i wanted to be happy, this is not evidence that it is a choice, if someone tries alcohol does that make them an alcoholic? Why would so many teens commit suicide because they were gay(I guess i left that out, but you probably understood what i meant and enjoy pretending you don't) if they chose to be that way? most teen suicides are related to being unhappy with their sexuality, so why would they chose something that they feel they couldn't live with? And yes, i do know what a libertarian is, sorry i didn't read up on your history more. And, as i was saying about choosing to be straight being a bad choice, I would much rather not have any sex drive at all, but saying it was stupid to choose to have one was wrong i suppose. I was just referring to the hell of dating, but i guess you can forget about that all now since your married. I just don't understand how you came to the conclusion gay people are gay because they woke up one day and said "hell, why not". From my experiences with gay people, they do sincerely have a sex drive towards the same sex, and saying that a persons sex drive is a matter of choice shows how ignorant you are of human nature. Why would there be so many gay people in the closet pretending they are straight when they don't need to be gay? who would honestly want to become a pariaha, and then try so hard to cover it up? And i am not refering to the openness of homosexuality today, but how it was 60 years ago, when people still believed masturbation caused blindness and insanity. I didn't say homosexuality was inherited, i don't believe that either, but i believe it's mostly based on your environment and so on. Maybe there is some choice involved, but if there is, it would be entirely subconscious. But, i guess i am the idiot for trying to argue with you, since you are set on your opinions of everything and won't even attempt to look at it through someone elses perspective. I am willing to hear you out, but you haven't even explained your point of view in more then 1 sentence, you've been so busy flaming people and taking quotes out of context, how bout you elabirate(sp)? if you actually do have a point of view that you didn't hear from a politician that is.



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OfflineMrKurtz
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #386704 - 09/06/01 08:58 AM (21 years, 23 days ago)

Rail Gun,

where did you get that fact about 85% of gay males were molested by men as children? now, saying that is much more believable (if it is true) then saying gays choose to be gay. Even then, i doubt it was a conscious choice, just outside factors screwing with they're developement, if your mom feeds you to much when you're to young to know any better, and you get fat, does that mean you chose to be fat? what your saying is evidence that homosexuals were "damaged" in the early stages of their developement, don't see how its their fault though.



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Invisibleisis
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: MrKurtz]
    #386844 - 09/06/01 02:31 PM (21 years, 23 days ago)

I still hold that homosexuality can be an inherited trait for some individuals.All Iam saying to innvertigo is "no, I don't have hard scientific prove for you." Don't get me wrong. I feel a gay person is gay no matter what they do. The choice that they have is wether they will live a gay life style or live a lie. I don't know who Miss Cleo is. I'm basing all my statemments from my personal experiences. Why do I think science may yet find that it may be an inherited trait, because throughout history science has proved ignorance wrong.Specially when it comes to ignorance created by the church.Look at all the individuals god believing people have persecuted,harm or  killed. Did they not cut Galileo's head off for simply stating the simple truth?The church has always thought it self to be righteous while condeming the innocent and commiting the greatest crimes against humanity in the name of God. If you  want examples of what is evil and immoral then look at the history of your own religion and you will see true evil and immorality.
I do not believe that you can offer me any scientific evidence on the existance of god.Maybe if you are an incredible theologian you will be able to offer a nice philosophical argument on the subject. In the end your Faith too will be baseless and irrational. My point is that you cannot prove your God is real. You cannot prove the book you base your morals on is  factual. I cannot prove there is a gay gene. Neither one of us can prove anything with certainty.Thus, we are simply left with what we believe.;)



Edited by isis on 09/06/01 06:48 AM.

Edited by isis on 09/06/01 06:52 AM.

Edited by isis on 09/06/01 06:54 AM.

Edited by isis on 09/06/01 06:55 AM.



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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: MrKurtz]
    #386861 - 09/06/01 03:48 PM (21 years, 23 days ago)

**** I'll actually edit my post this time, if it will please you more****
What would please me is if you'd make sense.

***have you ever had a priest as a good friend? do you realize how many of them still carry on sexual affairs, and the ones who don't must have some sort of sex drive***
I have a couple of friends that are priests. Sure they have sex drives, however they choose to control it. I know this is hard for someone at the peak of their sex drive to understand.

****and the ones who don't have affairs still masturbate regularly, and if they're are ones who are actually sincere enough and have the amazing willpower required not to perform in any types of sexual acts, they are rare indeed.****
And you have first hand knowledge of this? Your making assumptions that you can't back up. Please if you want to be taken seriously please know what you're talking about.

****My mother once told me the story of how she was friends with a priest. when she met him he hit on her and only backed off because she was married****
Yeah right...nice try

****telling me i didn't read my post and then not reading it yourself is a bit hipocritical****
go back again and read it....and hypocritical is not the correct word even if you were right

****Why would so many teens commit suicide because they were gay(I guess i left that out, but you probably understood what i meant and enjoy pretending you don't)****
i'm stating that the rate of suicide amongst the gay community is no more common than that of the strait community. I was pretending that you had some knowledge of this

****most teen suicides are related to being unhappy with their sexuality****
where do you come up with these ridiculas claims? Most Teen suicides are more closely related to depression of non-acceptance or not fitting in. Remember i was a teen once.

****i do know what a libertarian is, sorry i didn't read up on your history more****
That's what you get when you assume

****And, as i was saying about choosing to be straight being a bad choice****
i thought you origanaly said it wasn't a choice? Now your off the board entirely

****From my experiences with gay people, they do sincerely have a sex drive towards the same sex****
i'm sure they do but i still stand by my claim that it's a choice until i am proven wrong. If i am i will recant my stance

****and saying that a persons sex drive is a matter of choice shows how ignorant you are of human nature****
How so? Human nature is to be fruitful and multiply, to carry on the blood line ie: biological clock. Can gays multiply? Sounds to me the ignorance is in your court

****Why would there be so many gay people in the closet pretending they are straight when they don't need to be gay? ****
i woul'd know i'm not gay. If i had to take a guess i would have to say they feel it's a perversion they are asshamed of.

****but how it was 60 years ago****
this is today and a 60 year-old observation is irrelevant

****I didn't say homosexuality was inherited, i don't believe that either, but i believe it's mostly based on your environment and so on****
so you're saying that it's not inherited and it's not a choice. Now you're really contridicting yourself

****Maybe there is some choice involved, but if there is, it would be entirely subconscious.*****
ok now do you promise to stick with this stance. This stance i can see more than any other that you have brought forth

****i guess i am the idiot for trying to argue with you, since you are set on your opinions of everything and won't even attempt to look at it through someone elses perspective****
I would look at it through your perspective if it didn't change every sentance...do you find it noble to compromise your beliefs? I don't when there is nothing to prove me wrong.

****I am willing to hear you out, but you haven't even explained your point of view in more then 1 sentence, you've been so busy flaming people and taking quotes out of context, how bout you elabirate(sp)? if you actually do have a point of view that you didn't hear from a politician that is.****
All you have to do is ask. As far as i see it you got personal at me first, but i can take it. As far as my stance goes i have explained that like 10 times in this thread but if you don't accept it then that's your problem.
I try to look at your point of view but you ramble on and on and say nothing.

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineMrKurtz
enthusiast
Registered: 08/05/01
Posts: 303
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #389065 - 09/09/01 08:37 AM (21 years, 20 days ago)

i dont think i ever once said that homosexuality was inherited. i said it just wasn't a choice. i did get personal at first, and i'm sorry for that. and the story about my mother, is true, but hell, don't believe it if you want. also, you never did elabirate on your beliefs on homosexuality, you simply said it was a choice. that can mean quite a few things, like, do you honestly think people just wake up one day and say "what the hell, i'll be gay for the rest of my life", or do you believe its more complex then that?

"And you have first hand knowledge of this? Your making assumptions that you can't back up. Please if you want to be taken seriously please know what you're talking about. "

and you have firsthand knowledge that they don't? from what i know of human nature, i would bet that just about everyone performs in some sexual acts from time to time.

"i'm stating that the rate of suicide amongst the gay community is no more common than that of the strait community. I was pretending that you had some knowledge of this"

from the latest statistics i have read, you are right, most teens commit suicide cause they're not fitting in, and thats mostly because they have found (or think) they are gay.

"That's what you get when you assume"

hmm, and you haven't made any assumptions at all? i never once said that homosexuality was inherited, i just said it wasn't a choice. you've done a bit of assuming yourself.

"go back again and read it....and hypocritical is not the correct word even if you were right"

well, you said i should "read my post" when i stated the same comment twice. i said you were being hypocritcal because you didn't even seem to understand the point i was trying to state, that the first time you saw hardcore porn was probably a frightening/disgusting affair. you went on to say you enjoy watching porn with your wife, and i'm assuming everytime you watch it with your wife isn't the first time? so, hypocritical would be the right word, because you didn't read the post correctly in the first place and then claim i didn't read my post.

"How so? Human nature is to be fruitful and multiply, to carry on the blood line ie: biological clock. Can gays multiply? Sounds to me the ignorance is in your court"

well, its also human nature to be a social animal. why then would someone choose to be a recluse(sp)? i myself often prefer to be alone then to be in the company of others, it wasn't a choice, i just sometimes feel anxious when i'm with other people. if you consider that being a choice (it may be a psychological thing, i never really looked into it cause it doesn't bother me) then i might agree with you on your stance with homosexuality.

"so you're saying that it's not inherited and it's not a choice. Now you're really contridicting yourself"

its not black and white. there is a gray area in there. some people are more likely to become alcoholics, but no one is born an alcoholic. this might not be the best comparison, because it requires the choice to start drinking, but i don't think anyone wants to be an alcoholic, some can drink alot and never develop a dependancy, while others can't avoid it.

"I would look at it through your perspective if it didn't change every sentance...do you find it noble to compromise your beliefs? I don't when there is nothing to prove me wrong."

well, i still consider myself young, so my beliefs are flexible. but, i don't see where my stance changes throughout my post? maybe you just misunderstood me from the beginning, i never said that homosexuality is an inherited trait (although i think they're may be a "prone to homosexuality trait, heh"), in that case, i'm sorry if i didn't make myself clearer. as for finding it noble to compromise my beliefs... i don't have any beliefs i have that i hold with rockhard faith, i really don't care if they change, until i find something i really believe in. but, if you understood me from the beginning i don't think i changed my stance once.

"I try to look at your point of view but you ramble on and on and say nothing."

heh, that might be true, i only really post when i've been hit by serious insomnia, and people tend to ramble when they're in that state of mind.

I didn't mean to come off as hostile, sorry if i did, i don't see any reason in posting on this board if i'm just going to fight all the time, i don't know about anybody else, but fighting isn't my idea of a good time.




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Offlinesir_shroom_alot
enthusiast
Registered: 03/27/01
Posts: 223
Last seen: 20 years, 9 months
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: MrKurtz]
    #389081 - 09/09/01 08:55 AM (21 years, 20 days ago)

I don't care about Gay people except when they make big deals about stuff, like when gay rights say stuff about movies that have some gay guy in it or something. Just shut up and take it like a man... or woman. I personally like gay people cause that just means less babies and less people, i tink we need more of them! It's when they start being bi and giving girls AIDS, then it's a pain in the ass, and before I get flammed, everyone knows there is a much higher amount of aids cases in Gays than in any other, Isis are u ugly or something? did guys not think ur attractive? cause i have noticed this in lesbians, i'm being serious. Alot have built up a hatred for men simply becuase they were hurt by them.

first u get the money, then u get the Weemen!
Wee men? what the hell are u talking about!
i said woman; no u didn't man!

~Ur PAYING ME IN HAIR CLIPPINGS! WHAT ARE U cRAZY?


--------------------
first u get the money, then u get the Weemen!
Wee men? what the hell are u talking about!
i said woman; no u didn't man!

~Ur PAYING ME IN HAIR CLIPPINGS! WHAT ARE U cRAZY?


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OfflineMrKurtz
enthusiast
Registered: 08/05/01
Posts: 303
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: sir_shroom_alot]
    #389097 - 09/09/01 09:12 AM (21 years, 20 days ago)

"I don't care about Gay people except when they make big deals about stuff, like when gay rights say stuff about movies that have some gay guy in it or something. Just shut up and take it like a man... or woman"

these are the "gay movement groups" who make these claims, not gay people. surprisingly, they often hold very different beliefs.

"It's when they start being bi and giving girls AIDS, then it's a pain in the ass, and before I get flammed, everyone knows there is a much higher amount of aids cases in Gays than in any other"

although it is much more common for gay men to have AIDs, and much easier for them to get AIDs, its nearly impossible for lesbians to get AIDs (after all, most of they're sex involves tools).

You don't seem to know alot about gay people, and hell, you like women don't you? why's it so hard to understand other women don't? : )



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Invisibleisis
addict
Registered: 05/17/01
Posts: 484
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: sir_shroom_alot]
    #389104 - 09/09/01 09:33 AM (21 years, 20 days ago)

Sir shrooms alot: I don't have any problems with guys. I like them. I think males are great. I have great male friends.I think males have beautiful bodies.Well,not all of them,but the ones that do are nice to look at. I was never abused in any way shape or form by anybody male or female.I don't have any male isssues...Am I ugly. LOL. It's an honest question right?
No. I would post a picture of my girlfriend and I for you, but do to the nature of this board I can't. Neither one of us is ugly.Far from it. Sometimes people assume if you are a lesbian you must be ugly or you must not be able to get a date ,but that's just a stereotype.  I must agree some lesbians are butchy looking and some do hate guys.So, many people think of this stereotype when they think of a lesbian.  See, the problem is you probably only recognize the butchier lesbians as lesbians. You Probably don't look at your beautiful bank teller and think she is a lesbian, but she may be. Guys ask me out often,I'm just in a commited relationship so I have no interest in dating anybody.  Actually, I get hit on more by guys than I do women,because I don't look like Iam gay. I guess I'm lucky in that aspect. People tend to get to know me and accept me for who Iam before they realize I'm gay.
Anyhow, I hope I didn't come off as a man hater, because not only do I not hate guys, I like them.;)

Edited by isis on 09/09/01 01:54 AM.

Edited by isis on 09/09/01 02:27 AM.



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Invisibleisis
addict
Registered: 05/17/01
Posts: 484
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: isis]
    #389131 - 09/09/01 10:25 AM (21 years, 20 days ago)

Sir shrooms alot,I've been thinking about your questions and decided to share more with you. See, the stereotypes seem so weird to me. I'm gay and many of my female friends are gay.Many are not,but many are. Out of those, none fit the description you used. None are so ugly they can't get dates.None hate men. A few have been abused by them, but none are men haters. The way I see, no matter how ugly you are you can always find some guy that's willing to date you. There's ugly girls and there's ugly guys. Eventually they'll find each other. So, I guess I've just had the complete opposite experience that you have. Most of my gay female friends are beautiful and sexy. Even the ones that are not "hot" are cute. And they are all well balanced individuals with professional lives that do not hate men. I have actually encountered more male hate from my straight friends. They are the ones that are tell me they hate men.?????Anyways, this is my honest personal experience.

Edited by isis on 09/09/01 02:29 AM.



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InvisibleJohan Shultz
no title

Registered: 09/26/00
Posts: 169
Loc: UTOPIA
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Taz]
    #401674 - 09/23/01 10:35 PM (21 years, 6 days ago)

Taz! You are such a fucking homophobic redneck!!!



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InvisibleJared
Stranger
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/23/01
Posts: 8,783
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Johan Shultz]
    #402894 - 09/25/01 03:24 AM (21 years, 5 days ago)

I hate gay people. My friend since grade 3 came onto me one night when he was drunk. Nothing more creepy then having a guy pat in between his legs and say come and have a seat. I was pretty fuckign stoned and ended up running around with a pillow covering my ass. I do not like gay people.

Whats up with all these fuckign gay shows where every second joke is gay related.. Makes me sick.

Namaste


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OfflineRaVeN_SKiEs
newbie

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 34
Loc: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Last seen: 20 years, 5 months
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Taz]
    #402912 - 09/25/01 03:58 AM (21 years, 5 days ago)

Taz, personally, i am not a christan. i was brought up 2 be one, and had gone to church till i was 13 and choose not to go. but man, being gay a sin???? i believe that people should be free to do as they please(in some casses. i dont mean that people should be able 2 go out and broutally kill 20 people or ne thing stupid like that) but something so simple as being gay, what is so bad about that? and WHY?? there have been gay rights things going on for so long, to give gays their freedom to love each other, and be able 2 go out in public without some idiot yelling "fuckin fag!" or some stupid fuckin comment like that. people should be able 2 choose who they want to love, and marry, and not have this "god" controlling their life style, giving people limitations such as, worship god, and obay him, or else go 2 "hell" and telling people what they can and cannot do.

I am looking through
Through the dance of the trees
I experience
What a shaman sees
I return within
I return with sight
Under raven skies
I will sleep tonight

-The Tea Party


--------------------
I am looking through
Through the dance of the trees
I experience
What a shaman sees
I return within
I return with sight
Under raven skies
I will sleep tonight

-The Tea Party


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InvisibleJohan Shultz
no title

Registered: 09/26/00
Posts: 169
Loc: UTOPIA
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Taz]
    #402938 - 09/25/01 04:34 AM (21 years, 5 days ago)

It looks like you didn't get anything from shrooms, people. You still hate and enjoy it. I think you should open your own forum. Call it "Homophobs an Republicans only":crazy:



--------------------


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OfflineMrKurtz
enthusiast
Registered: 08/05/01
Posts: 303
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Jared]
    #403139 - 09/25/01 07:44 AM (21 years, 4 days ago)

hmm, sounds like you have serious problems getting in touch with your sexuality. He was most likely joking around and you took it the wrong way. And since when is doing something you think is wierd and gross make it wrong and a reason to hate?



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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Johan Shultz]
    #403366 - 09/25/01 03:14 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

i can't believe this forum is still going. I thought all that could be said, was said

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleMokshaMan
enthusiast
Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 280
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Johan Shultz]
    #403511 - 09/25/01 07:48 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

Hey, hey, hey... no need to attack Republicans. While I am a Republican and I am Southern, that doesn't mean I'm a homophobo. I simply don't think this is a lifestyle I want to participate in, don't think my wife would like me to either. I also don't care much for all the homosexuals calling for right to marry, this doesn't mean that I wouldn't support a civil union so that things like health benifits could be shared. In fact I worked for and with two homosexual men for six monthes and had no problem with them... well except for when they dissappeared in the back for an hour or two. Although that I think had nothing to do with them being gay, just lazy. Just thought I'd share my two cents since most seem hell bent on bashing those who have more conservative beliefs or are from the south.



--------------------
Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
-- George Owell


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Invisibleisis
addict
Registered: 05/17/01
Posts: 484
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: MokshaMan]
    #403789 - 09/26/01 01:04 AM (21 years, 4 days ago)

The thread that will not die. It just keeps comming back. This has got to be the oldest thread.



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OfflineMrKurtz
enthusiast
Registered: 08/05/01
Posts: 303
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: isis]
    #403984 - 09/26/01 04:33 AM (21 years, 4 days ago)

heh, what do you expect... someone new reads it, and its such a good subject they can't help but post!



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Invisibleisis
addict
Registered: 05/17/01
Posts: 484
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: MrKurtz]
    #404593 - 09/26/01 04:43 PM (21 years, 3 days ago)

Yeah, it is a good topic. There's lots of good stuff in this post.



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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: isis]
    #404594 - 09/26/01 04:50 PM (21 years, 3 days ago)

like me......:)

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick  *  there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleLallafa
p_g monocle
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/14/01
Posts: 2,598
Loc: underbelly
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #408481 - 09/30/01 03:03 AM (21 years, 1 hour ago)

taz is a nazi. i knew it. read his posts and you will find how fucked up an individual taz really is. i remember when he claimed his wife shot herself in front of him.... id put money down that this never happened...

Curtis was arrested in April after he sold urine to an undercover cop at a South Carolina gas station and a SWAT team raided his home, finding 20 gallons of urine in milk jugs and sealed containers.


--------------------
my tax dollars going to more hits of acid for charles manson


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OfflineElPrimo
journeyman
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 92
Last seen: 20 years, 5 months
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: MokshaMan]
    #408762 - 09/30/01 08:33 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

"While I am a Republican and I am Southern, that doesn't mean I'm a homophobo. "... No, and the race doesn't always go to the fastest guy, but that's the way to bet. ..LOL



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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: ElPrimo]
    #409911 - 10/01/01 04:21 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

****No, and the race doesn't always go to the fastest guy, but that's the way to bet. ****

I believe they call that stereotyping.....after all....all gays have aids..;)......sarcasm

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick  *  there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinekidrhubarb
Stranger
Registered: 09/10/01
Posts: 20
Last seen: 20 years, 5 months
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #410036 - 10/01/01 08:09 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

seeing as how it is very apperent that some ppl want to tell others how to think, i am going to say my peace. first, on the topic of gays, wait lets say sex, a persons opinions are there own. they do not need the validation of any other person but there partner. if someone wants to get buggered in the ass, by anyone, that is the none of mine, or anyone elses concern. the end. you can find gays disgusting, and that is your opinon. you have made that very clear, and i think that we all got it. there is nothing constructive to be added to this thread. so now that we all have this out of our system, lets get back to sharing info on the mushroom that we love so much.
kidrhubarb-



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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: kidrhubarb]
    #410040 - 10/01/01 08:14 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

thanks for your 2 cents you have the right to express them...however this is the political section and the discussion of mushrooms are designated for the mushroom sections.....politics are discussed here. Feel free to input your opinions in the political realm.

****seeing as how it is very apperent that some ppl want to tell others how to think****

Aren't you telling people how to think?....that's my 2 cents

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinekidrhubarb
Stranger
Registered: 09/10/01
Posts: 20
Last seen: 20 years, 5 months
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #410119 - 10/01/01 10:07 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

damn what is up with all the pent up aggresion? this is the politicl section, not the piss on everyone section.
kidrhubarb-



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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: kidrhubarb]
    #410122 - 10/01/01 10:12 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

taking things a little personal aren't you? No personal attack intended. just expressing my 2 cents

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinekidrhubarb
Stranger
Registered: 09/10/01
Posts: 20
Last seen: 20 years, 5 months
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #410123 - 10/01/01 10:13 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

"Aren't you telling people how to think?....that's my 2 cents"

and no, i was sharing my opinion, but thank you for looking out.
kidrhubarb-



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Offlinebabyshroom
addict
Registered: 09/09/01
Posts: 456
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: kidrhubarb]
    #418345 - 10/08/01 11:35 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I know, you hate me for bringing this thread back to the top, but I couldn't stop myself. I have a perspective unlike most of the people who have participated in this thread, due to personal experience.
I am (by nature) a straight female...a very attractive female who was lucky enough to be born with a great body and a high i.q. I'm nearly 40 and I've been around the block a few times. Most of my relationships have been with straight men, but there have been exceptions. I once became friends with a man and found myself very attracted to him because of his sense of humor. I later found out (quite by accident--long story) that he was gay. He was (at that time) making every effort to be straight, and hide his past from me. I was the only woman he had ever made love to at the time, and, 16 years later, I am still the only female notch on his bedpost. He wanted and tried (desperately) to be straight. I wanted and tried (desperately) to understand what MADE him gay and how it could be "fixed". Not because I thought it was wrong, but because it made him unhappy.
During our on-and-off relationship, which spanned several years and produced my eldest daughter, I spent a great deal of time in the company of homosexual men and women. I made a great many friends of both sexes. Many of the women were quite feminine and attractive, certainly able to get a date with a man, if they so desired.
I did have several casual, short-term relationships with women during those years. Not to be "hip", but because I was attracted to those women, and they were attracted to me. A homosexual relationship is no different than a straight relationship. Homosexual people are no different than straight people.
Do gay people CHOOSE to be gay? In my experience, most of them do not. Yes, I did run across a few (women, especially) who chose to date women because they were previously unhappy in hetero relationships. They felt another woman would understand them better and be more responsive to their needs, and therefore chose to have lesbian relationships. Some of them considered themselves bisexual.
Am I gay because I had sex with women? No. I made a choice to experience that type of relationship, just as I made a choice to continue dating a man I knew to be (by nature) gay.
My x made every effort to be "straight", but he could not overcome the fact that he was BORN GAY. I did not leave him because he was gay, I left him because he tried to overcome his misery by using drugs and became a junkie. Perhaps I should say he left me, because he was never fulfilled by the relationship, regardless of how much he loved me. He could not deny the truth - he was BORN GAY.
I do believe that gay people are born that way, just like I was born a brunette. I can dye my hair and make people believe that I am a blonde. Gay people can hide their true sexual orientation and pretend to be straight. But underneath the dye job and the pretense, you still have a brunette and a gay person. I'm very thankful that I can be my real (brunette) self or my pretend (blonde) self without being discriminated against for either. I wish that gay people could say the same thing.
The only people who have any of the REAL answers on this subject are GAY PEOPLE!!! Read the thread, people. Isis states that she is, in fact, a lesbian. Why in the hell would anyone dispute her, if she says she was born gay? Why would you dispute anyone who says they are born gay?
Surely, if they had made a choice, they would know it.
And for those of you who find it so damned difficult to think about men having sex with each other, I'd like to know just exactly WHAT is so disgusting. Are you against kissing? If you do it yourself, then why shouldn't they? Are you against oral sex? I seriously doubt it, I've yet to run across a man who wouldn't drop his drawers in a SECOND to have his dick sucked. Intercourse? Of course you're not. Are you against anal sex? If it's okay for you to fuck your girlfriend/wife in the ass, then what do you find so terrifyingly horrid about a man having the same experience? There is nothing unnatural about homosexual or lesbian sexual activities. They are doing the same things you are doing in your own bedrooms. Or maybe not. If you are as close-minded as you sound (this is directed to the gay bashers above) you probably believe that the only "proper" way to have sex is the good old missionary position, with you on top pumping away until you're done.
Don't you ever EAT the mushrooms you grow? Being close-minded is a very unattractive trait in a person. Open your minds and you will be surprised what wonderful experiences life has to offer.



<a target="_blank" href=http://www.geocities.com/ralph1956_2000/ralphster44_FSR.html?988942758830> Support the Free Spore Ring </a>

Edited by babyshroom on 10/08/01 03:41 PM.



--------------------
I don't really know anyone who grows mushrooms. I just come here for fun.


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Offlinebwiti
Stranger
Registered: 10/08/01
Posts: 5
Loc: north-east America
Last seen: 18 years, 7 months
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Taz]
    #418378 - 10/09/01 12:10 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I'm a bisexual, but I don't cry for equal rights, because I already have them! Bunch of frigging cry-babies dipping their hands into Uncle Sam's pockets. Special rights for blacks will make many people angry, including me. When that happens, I guarantee that the concept of white supremacy will be the belief of many. What ever happened to equal rights? There are many weasils in this world, and America's their victim. Alot of people will be more than generous to a certain group to gain more votes. When the arabs wanted help when the jews were taking over, we ignored them, because the politicians were too busy kissing jew-ass. Look where we are now. We allowed the jews to steal land that was the arab's for over a thousand years! What the fuck did we expect! Those cheap jew, little bastards won't give up an inch of the arab's land back. They make all jews look bad. I hope they get invaded and many die, because they deserve it! Fuck Clinton and so called "liberals" with their favortism and selfishness!

I'm going to help all of you cleanse this diseased planet!


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I'm going to help all of you cleanse this diseased planet!


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OfflineMrKurtz
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: bwiti]
    #418588 - 10/09/01 02:55 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Eh, are you joking or something?

As for the "special rights" for blacks, people made them because, if you don't have any knowledge of american history, just about all black people in america have slaves for ancestors. Black people were forced to work like animals, and when they got freedom, they were forced to live in poverty. Have you ever wondered why the majority of black people in america still live in ghettos? But, because people have been addressing the problems, its been getting better. So, are you saying you simply don't believe in compensation for injustices?



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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: babyshroom]
    #419293 - 10/09/01 05:11 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I'll not comment, for the sake of argument, on the first 90% of your post because it's one person's observations.

****And for those of you who find it so damned difficult to think about men having sex with each other, I'd like to know just exactly WHAT is so disgusting.****

The act of two men engaging in sex (please read all the posts to see where i and others are coming from)

****Are you against kissing? If you do it yourself, then why shouldn't they? Are you against oral sex? I seriously doubt it, I've yet to run across a man who wouldn't drop his drawers in a SECOND to have his dick sucked...yadda yadda****

i'll bet you dimes to donuts that this isn't true if a guy wanted to suck off another guy

****There is nothing unnatural about homosexual or lesbian sexual activities. ****

no it's not....can gays reproduce?

****They are doing the same things you are doing in your own bedrooms. ****

that's not the point....the reason why many don't approve of it is because it never just stays in the bedroom...we are expected to accept it.  Quite frankly it's pretty close-minded to expect people to accept this.

****If you are as close-minded as you sound (this is directed to the gay bashers above) you probably believe that the only "proper" way to have sex is the good old missionary position****

The only closeminded people on this thread are those that can't accept that their are other views.  You seem to be obsessed with the sexual activities of others, which is fine by me because it's pretty rare in younger woman and you are in your sexual peak which may explain your new "open mindedness".  I prefer doggystyle myself...the more screaming the better;)

****Being close-minded is a very unattractive trait in a person*****

I agree, fortunatly for you we can't see you at this moment.

People have different views accept it....................

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick  *  there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


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Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

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Offlinebabyshroom
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #419486 - 10/09/01 08:31 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

"can gays reproduce?"
Did you read my post? My daughter's father is a homosexual man. Before you jump up and say "what about lesbians", let me remind you that many heterosexual couples must revert to various medical remedies to combat sterility...lesbian couples have the same option.

"the reason why many don't approve of it is because it never just stays in the bedroom...we are expected to accept it."
I disagree. They DON'T expect YOU to accept it. You are quite obviously very close-minded and opinionated.

"Quite frankly it's pretty close-minded to expect people to accept this."
Look again, dear. YOUR mind is closed and triple locked. On the other hand, I am an American. I believe that EVERYONE has a right to their own political, religious and sexual beliefs and practices. That's what freedom is about, and that is why I live here.

"The only closeminded people on this thread are those that can't accept that their are other views."
Oh, I ACCEPT that there are other views, I just believe that many of those views are narrow, open only to their own interpretation of right and wrong.

"You seem to be obsessed with the sexual activities of others, which is fine by me because it's pretty rare in younger woman and you are in your sexual peak which may explain your new "open mindedness"."
As I said, the sexual activities of others is their own business, and whether they are open about those activities is their own choice. While I may be interested in my friends' RELATIONSHIPS (vs. sexual activities), I certainly do not see myself as obsessed. Neither do any of my friends, come to think of it. In addition, I would love to know what on earth makes you think my open mindedness is "new". My point of view comes from experience, not some mid-life transformation. I've spent plenty of time in gay and straight environments, and enjoy/ed the company of both groups.

"People have different views accept it...................."
Practice what you preach.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: babyshroom]
    #419524 - 10/09/01 09:06 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

****My daughter's father is a homosexual man****

You missed my point.....can he mate with another man to have a baby?...no...ie: unatural.

****Before you jump up and say "what about lesbians", let me remind you that many heterosexual couples must revert to various medical remedies to combat sterility...lesbian couples have the same option. *****

What in the hell are you talking about? Sterility has nothing to do with whether or not someone has the ability to reproduce. Sterility is a choice, be it personal or medical to avoid having children. Please stay on point.

****I disagree. They DON'T expect YOU to accept it. You are quite obviously very close-minded and opinionated****

Opinionated..yes. Closeminded...i don't think so. If you've read the previous posts before going on your rant you would realize where my stance is on the homosexual lifestyle..i'm not going to repeat it because i've had to say it about 10 times..READ. There are many homo's that expect to be accepted.

****Look again, dear***

condescending eh?...i'm a little turned on......

****YOUR mind is closed and triple locked.****

eh?..triple locked..

****On the other hand, I am an American. I believe that EVERYONE has a right to their own political, religious and sexual beliefs and practices. That's what freedom is about, and that is why I live here.****

I'll refer you to my previous posts about where i stand...i agree with you. On the other hand don't expect everyone eles to accept your lifestyle....after all i am an American.

****Oh, I ACCEPT that there are other views, I just believe that many of those views are narrow, open only to their own interpretation of right and wrong.****

Your beginning to contradict yourself...Just as other people see your views as narrow-minded and open to your own interpretation of right and wrong....am i wrong?

****As I said, the sexual activities of others is their own business, and whether they are open about those activities is their own choice. ****

I agree

****In addition, I would love to know what on earth makes you think my open mindedness is "new". ****

It was tongue-n-cheek...sheesh relax

****My point of view comes from experience, not some mid-life transformation****

As does mine and many others. My point of view on homo's comes from my experiences, likes, dislikes..etc....but somehow people with a similar point of view are close-minded while you are not.

****Practice what you preach. *****

I challenge you to find one instance where i state that noone has the right to disagree with me.

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinebabyshroom
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #419732 - 10/09/01 11:33 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

"You missed my point.....can he mate with another man to have a baby?"

Why would he need to? He can mate with a woman. Surely you don't believe that gay men are unABLE to have sex with women!!

"Sterility is a choice, be it personal or medical to avoid having children."

Sterility is SOMETIMES a choice, and sometimes a very unfortunate medical condition. There are always alternatives, regardless of your sexual orientation.

"Please stay on point."

Well, son-of-a-bitch, let's take a good look at your posts, so we can see what the hell the point was! Oh yeah, I remember!!! And I quote from one of your earlier posts -- "well actually the beginning of this debate the question was if it was a choice to be gay or is it a born trait." And from an earlier post -- "All people are born hetero no matter what you think and they make the decision to be gay. I have no problem with someone being gay but please don't try to treat it like it is some sort of disease and you can't help it." and later in that post "Gays exist because they want to." Hmm...seems that I am RIGHT on point!! My original post was to dispute your belief that homosexuality is a choice. I don't believe it is true, neither do the many gay people I have discussed this with....the people who know more about this than either of us. Tell me, have gay people been TELLING you that they choose to be gay? The reproduction issue was also brought up by (hmmmm...who was that?....oh yeah!) YOU! If you don't want to discuss a subject, don't bring it up.

"Closeminded...i don't think so. If you've read the previous posts before going on your rant you would realize where my stance is on the homosexual lifestyle."
I did read your posts, and I quote them above. You are closeminded to the possibility that people are BORN gay.
Your so-called "proof" is supposedly contained in the following: "there are cases that prove this ie. someone being gay finding God and marrying a woman and having kids."
The fact that a man marries and copulates, thereby producing a child does not mean that being gay was a choice. That's ridiculous, Innvertigo! The fact that his dick got hard and emitted sperm does NOT, by any stretch of the imagination, prove that he was born straight and chose to be gay.

"condescending eh?...i'm a little turned on......"
As I remember it, you were also turned on when I wanted to send bleeding muslims (beaten by Americans because they celebrated the terrorism on our country) back to their own hell hole. Hmm.....perhaps a little dissection of your sexual preferences would make an interesting thread.

"Your beginning to contradict yourself...Just as other people see your views as narrow-minded and open to your own interpretation of right and wrong....am i wrong?"
Yes, you are wrong. I am totally open to the possibility that some people choose to live a gay lifestyle, even if they weren't necessarily born gay. Refer to my original post and you will see that I discuss that very thing.

"My point of view on homo's comes from my experiences, likes, dislikes..etc"
Okay, great. What are those experiences? I told you about mine, and why I am confident that some people are born gay. You have yet to come forth with some personal experiences that back up your insistence that being gay is a choice.

I really hesitate to bring this up, because it has been so long since I researched this subject that I don't remember all the correct medical terminology, nor do I remember the hormone in question. However, during my years in the gay community, I did read a great deal about the subject, in an attempt to better understand my x and his situation (i.e. wanting to be straight, but being unable to maintain that lifestyle for any period of time). I remember one study that found a very strong correlation between gay male children and gestational mothers who were very unhappy during their pregnancies. Research showed that a particular hormone is blocked (i.e. not released to the fetus) when a mother is emotionally distraught. The hypothesis was that the male child was born gay because he (as a fetus) was starved of the hormone. I found this very interesting, as my x's mother suffered great emotional trauma during her pregnancy with him. An older son (who was slightly retarded) was killed by a group of children - beaten to death. She found herself pregnant within days of the occurrence and felt herself unable to love another child, and unwilling to deal with the possibility that something might happen to another of her children. She told me herself that she cried throughout the pregnancy. So when I read about this study, and the ensuing hypothesis, I was intrigued, and felt the hypothesis might be very valid.

Since you have failed to produce one ounce of proof for your beliefs, I don't feel I have to PROVE this theory. However, it does offer a potential scientific REASON why people are born gay. Far more scientific reason than you have offered up as to why someone would CHOOSE to be gay.

Your turn.

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: babyshroom]
    #419911 - 10/10/01 02:32 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

****Why would he need to? He can mate with a woman. Surely you don't believe that gay men are unABLE to have sex with women!! ***

Now your avoiding the question...typical. If homosexuality is so natural why can't they reproduce with EACH OTHER?

****Sterility is SOMETIMES a choice, and sometimes a very unfortunate medical condition. There are always alternatives, regardless of your sexual orientation. ****

That was my point...and what the hell does sterility have to do with this subject anyways? You blab something that makes no sense then you blab on to another subject...yet again...stay on point.

****Well, son-of-a-bitch, let's take a good look at your posts****

Temper Temper..ha ha ha...would be a first time eh?

***Gays exist because they want to***

What's wrong with my statement? You cannot give me one shred of evidence that contradicts my stance..not one. Since the gays claim that they are born gay the burden of proof is on them. I state quite adamently that if you give me proof then i would change my point of view. To date this has not happened no matter what your over abundance of gay exposure tells you. Hell ISIS even admitted to it and she is a lesbian. Using your logic i can tell you that she knows more about the subject than you do so her confession stands....oh i don't hate ISIS either if your wondering..i just disagree with her life style that she has every right to live...man you sound bitter.

****You are closeminded to the possibility that people are BORN gay****

First of i've never said there isn't a possibility i just want to see proof...do you have it? Seems to me your the one who is Extremely closeminded......and selective in your reading..

***Your so-called "proof" is supposedly contained in the following: there are cases that prove this ie. someone being gay finding God and marrying a woman and having kids.****

So your telling me that my observation is wrong..hmmmmm...well my lovely little vixen my x's brother was gay and told us that he found religion and he changed just as my example states. Are you telling me that he is still gay? For the sake of argument lets say he still is....if a guy decides one day you know i find men attractive and falls in love with another man can it be agreed upon that he is a hetro because he was hetro at birth. Is he gay or hetro?...it's one or the other, you can't have it both ways.

****As I remember it, you were also turned on when I wanted to send bleeding muslims (beaten by Americans because they celebrated the terrorism on our country) back to their own hell hole. Hmm.....perhaps a little dissection of your sexual preferences would make an interesting thread. ****

Ha Ha...it sure would make for an interesting discussion. However i hate to disappoint you but i'm all hetro..if you'd like to discuss it make sure you PM me..it might be worth it..ha ha..

trying to attack me just makes me more interested

***I really hesitate to bring this up, because it has been so long since I researched this subject..................yadda (insert psycho babble here) yadda ****

You really shouldn't of brought this up because it's just proving my point a little further. Is thi the scientific proof that you are arguing with? Many mothers who are unhappy during pregnancy give birth to perfeclty fine baby's. Surely this hormone that you have studied would be listed somewhere in a medical journal that would explain your diatribe...can i have the name of that journal?

I'm sure these people that you know that were unhappy are fine and nice people but after reading that all i could think to myself is Liberal Psycho Babble. A lot of people use this to try to explain and justify why something has happened. Kind of like the theory or the bear repellant elixer i bought...ever since i bought it i haven't been attacked by bears....and since i was unhappy during pregnancy that explains him being gay or mentally challenged.

****So when I read about this study, and the ensuing hypothesis****

simply a guess

***Since you have failed to produce one ounce of proof for your beliefs, I don't feel I have to PROVE this theory***

Great counter...you'd be a great lawyer ha ha.......Unfortunatly the burdun of proof isn't on me. I believe that Homosexuality is a Perversion. The people that are doing it are fine in my book and they have every right to live the way they want. I on the other hand think it's a choice...to date there has been no evidence to the contrary. I will give you credit you have been the first one to attempt it...even with the psycho babble.

***Far more scientific reason than you have offered up as to why someone would CHOOSE to be gay.****

not really.....they choose to because they want to.

Now don't get upset at me because i don't agree with you. I even have friends that i don't agree with (if you can comprehend that). I have had pleasent conversations with ISIS in my PM's and feel she's a very nice person, that's not in dispute. Don't change this argument into a you hate this and you hate that format because that's not the issue. I hate noone. My purpose at the beginning was to see how long it would take before someone would admit that there was no scientific proof that gays were born gay. ISIS in one of her last posts admitted it, and i think no less of her for it..acyually i respect her more for it. She is the first gay i've meet that have admitted it......maybe one day you will as well

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleLallafa
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #420062 - 10/10/01 04:27 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

here's an ideal. if all you black people think you have it so bad in america, then why don't you go back to africa. God I'm soo sick of this shit. It was your own damn people who sold your black asses into slavery why don't you go and sue africa. this just goes to show how intelligent blacks really are. your so dumb that you don't even know who's fault it was for you being sold into slavery. maybe if you'd have paid attention in history class instead of running around trashing your own neiborhoods and selling crack you would know this.- TAZ


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Edited by Lallafa (10/22/01 06:38 AM)


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Lallafa]
    #420500 - 10/10/01 03:16 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

****i dont think homosexuality is any more "unnatural" than heterosexual perversions/fetishs such as anal sex and squirting sperm in a girls mouth... ****

It's unnatural when we're talking procreation.

****and i think using your logic, humans are pretty unnatural in general...****

Humans...at least a majority of them are unnatural

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Invisibleisis
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #420522 - 10/10/01 04:01 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Gosh, I just read my name a number of times......What to say..I think I've said it all. The man wants concrete scientific proof and we have none...That is all there is to that.
However, I still hold to my views that homosexuality is an inherited trait and thus not something that we just decide we want to be. Innvertigo still holds that it isn't a trait and it is just a choice people make. Neither one of us can "proof" the other wrong.
I hate to say it Innvertigo, but if your x-brother(I think that is who it was) was truly gay then he is probably still gay. He is just fighting his nature. Then again, he could be bi-sexual and thus truly happy. One would hope that is the case..for his sake.

Edited by isis on 10/10/01 08:02 AM.



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Offlinebabyshroom
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #420532 - 10/10/01 04:49 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Oh goodie, something to do while my desk is clean.

?Now you?re avoiding the question...typical. If homosexuality is so natural why can't they reproduce with EACH OTHER??

Where do you get the notion that the only kind of ?natural? sex must include reproduction? All sex is natural. The desire isn?t bought or manufactured, it just IS. Natural feelings, natural desires, natural acts. Hetero, homosexual or perverse, all sex is natural.

?That was my point...and what the hell does sterility have to do with this subject anyways??

Actually, Innvertigo, you introduced the subject of reproduction. My example of sterile heterosexual couples was made simply to open your eyes?.the fact that a couple cannot reproduce does not make their relationship wrong or unnatural. Don?t worry, I get it now?your eyes are glued shut.

?You blab something that makes no sense then you blab on to another subject...yet again...stay on point.?

Hmm?talking to yourself again? You really should see someone about that.

?Temper Temper..ha ha ha...would be a first time eh??

Trust me darling, if I were pissed you would most assuredly know it.

?Since the gays claim that they are born gay the burden of proof is on them.?

You claim they are not born gay. I say the burden of proof is on you. They are speaking from personal experience, and you insist that you know them better than they know themselves. I say your stance is harder to believe than theirs, so let?s see your proof. Prove to me that you were born straight.

?Hell ISIS even admitted to it and she is a lesbian. Using your logic I can tell you that she knows more about the subject than you do so her confession stands.?

Actually, what Isis ?admitted? to was being unable to PROVE to you that she was born gay. And I quote ?Now, how can I prove that I was born gay? I can't prove that to you. How can you prove that you were born straight?? and one further quote ??it is mighty big of you to tell me that I don't know why I'm really gay. I was born gay. It's that simple.? Oh, please do continue using my logic. Then we can BOTH AGREE that Isis knows more about homosexuality than either of us. It would stand to reason that you and I should BOTH listen and learn. Isis?

?First of I've never said there isn't a possibility, I just want to see proof.?

Oh really? Well then it must be time to quote another of your previous posts!

?All people are born hetero no matter what you think and they make the decision to be gay.?

Hmm?that sure sounds like you're saying there isn?t a possibility. That?s okay, though. As long as you?re starting to see it my way, I?ll forgive your previous unsubstantiated narrow-minded view. And in another previous post?

?Gays exist because they want to.?

Again, I don?t see where you ?never said there isn?t a possibility?. Who?s contradicting himself now? And just one more?.

?My original statement is they choose to be gay.?

Yes, you?ve made it quite clear that you USED to believe that all people are born straight. But NOW you admit that there IS a possibility. Congratulations, Innvertigo, you?ve made a step in the right direction.

??my x's brother was gay and told us that he found religion and he changed??

As I?ve stated earlier, the fact that a person makes a choice to live a straight life does NOT negate the fact that they were born gay?the original topic of discussion, if I read your previous posts correctly. By the same token, if a person is born straight and chooses to live a gay lifestyle, it does not negate the fact that they were born straight. People are what they are. Your x?s brother made a choice to live a straight lifestyle. It?s a shame that religion made him feel that being gay is wrong. Being gay is no more wrong than being white, black, short or tall.

?if a guy decides one day you know I find men attractive and falls in love with another man can it be agreed upon that he is a hetero because he was hetero at birth. Is he gay or hetero??

If that guy tells you he is heterosexual, than yes, he is heterosexual. If he tells you he is gay, then he is gay. He is the only one who knows what he feels, much less what he has felt since birth. Many gay people feel/know they are gay, but attempt to live straight lifestyles because of the pressures they feel from society, a desire for acceptance and/or the knowledge/belief that they will be judged and condemned by family and friends. The lifestyle a person chooses to lead does not change the way they were born.

?My purpose at the beginning was to see how long it would take before someone would admit that there was no scientific proof that gays were born gay. ISIS in one of her last posts admitted it, and I think no less of her for it. Actually I respect her more for it. She is the first gay I've met that has admitted it......?

Funny, I?ve never had a gay person tell me that there is scientific proof that they were born gay. Where do you find all these gay people who tout scientific proof, Innvertigo? If they are required to prove that they were born gay, than surely you should be required to prove that you were born straight. Since you insist that gay people should prove their homosexuality, I challenge you to prove that you were born straight. Prove to me that you have no desire to hug a man, kiss a man or even feel his dick in your ass. Go ahead, big boy, prove it.



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Edited by babyshroom on 10/10/01 08:56 AM.



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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: babyshroom]
    #420864 - 10/10/01 11:10 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

****the fact that a couple cannot reproduce does not make their relationship wrong or unnatural***

Do you even think before you open your mouth? I thought you had a "high iq"? It's like trying to talk to 4 year old...you seem to be stuck on avoiding the questions being asked because not only is your mind closed but your brain is closing as well. If you can't answer a question with a somewhat relative answer, why respond at all?..sheesh.

I'll ask again i'll put it in caps if you want. mind you we're talking about two perfectly healthy people. CAN A MAN AND ANOTHER MAN HAVE A NATURAL OFFSPRING....I know you won't answer this so i'll answer it for you. NO. Everything in nature has the ability to procreate (even if they don't want to...short of just not having that ability due to a defect) and this can NOT be denied.....but i'm sure you have some psycho babble to counter.

****Hmm?talking to yourself again? You really should see someone about that****

Great counter. That iq must be higher then i thought...has mensa called you yet?

****Trust me darling, if I were pissed you would most assuredly know it.****

ha ha ha oh would I? Would that mean you would stop using psycho babble and actually make sense?

****You claim they are not born gay. I say the burden of proof is on you...... Prove to me that you were born straight. ****

My proof lies in nature and the ability to procreate....when you popped a puppy out that was natural.....when your ex popped his ah....boyfriend that was not because he does not have the ability to impregnate another male. Seems to me that I have the only evidence that can't be disputed...oh and don't try the "monkey's in africa are gay" argument..that is so sad.

****I was born gay. It's that simple****

Prove it

****Then we can BOTH AGREE that Isis knows more about homosexuality than either of us.****

She does know more about being a homosexual than i do...because shes a homosexual.....however she, and yourself included, don't know anymore about human nature and evolution than i do....remember you don't have to be something to know something about it...i've never been in outer space but i know a lot about it.

****It would stand to reason that you and I should BOTH listen and learn. Isis? ****

You've already proved from your last post that you have the ability to process false logic so you can learn all you want..heaven knows you need it.

****All people are born hetero no matter what you think and they make the decision to be gay.? ........Hmm?that sure sounds like you're saying there isn?t a possibility. *****

Yet again you miss the point.............it really doesn't matter what you think, if there is no proof you can't just say you were born that way because you THINK that there is proof...keep up little lady

****Gays exist because they want to.? .............Again, I don?t see where you ?never said there isn?t a possibility?. Who?s contradicting himself now? ****

I don't see the contradiction...you still have no proof.

****?My original statement is they choose to be gay.? .............Yes, you?ve made it quite clear that you USED to believe that all people are born straight****

OHHH clever insertion of words..however my statement stands because i have been the only one to state that the nature of procreation is my base for my stance....your base is from some gay that decided to screw someone else...who knows it could of been your fault he's gay..ha ha..i'm beginning to see why...

****Being gay is no more wrong than being white, black, short or tall. ****

Who said being gay is wrong?....domn't compare being gay with the color of a person..that is quite rediculus

****Funny, I?ve never had a gay person tell me that there is scientific proof that they were born gay****

Because there is none

****Where do you find all these gay people who tout scientific proof, Innvertigo? ****

sigh.......i never said they did..go back and READ.

****I challenge you to prove that you were born straight. ****

I have given examples that can be grasped...(procreation) the balls in your court

****kiss a man or even feel his dick in your ass. Go ahead, big boy, prove it****

you seem obsessed with anal sex...man are you a scat freak?...Big boy?......man you are really showing your age now. you can do better i'm sure you can...

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #420891 - 10/10/01 11:31 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)


To answer your question "CAN A MAN AND ANOTHER MAN HAVE A NATURAL OFFSPRING?"


No. They can't. So what?

"All energies flow according to the whims of the great magnet."
-Hunter S. Thompson


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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OfflineMrKurtz
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #421245 - 10/11/01 04:31 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

well, do you ever answer the actual questions asked? You take on a strange interpretation of her words, twisting them to make her sound stupid.

"My proof lies in nature and the ability to procreate....when you popped a puppy out that was natural.....when your ex popped his ah....boyfriend that was not because he does not have the ability to impregnate another male. Seems to me that I have the only evidence that can't be disputed...oh and don't try the "monkey's in africa are gay" argument..that is so sad. "

I really don't see the logic in this, sex is only natural because you have the chance of impregnating someone? Does the idea of possibly impregnating someone turn you on or something? I know it sure as hell doesn't for me. The idea of holding a lover and having an orgasm does. Its human nature to enjoy sex, not enjoy impregnating people. Is masturbation therefore unnatural and a choice? Hell, I didn't even know what masturbation was until i first did it.



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InvisibleLallafa
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: gluke bastid]
    #421249 - 10/11/01 04:40 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

here's an ideal. if all you black people think you have it so bad in america, then why don't you go back to africa. God I'm soo sick of this shit. It was your own damn people who sold your black asses into slavery why don't you go and sue africa. this just goes to show how intelligent blacks really are. your so dumb that you don't even know who's fault it was for you being sold into slavery. maybe if you'd have paid attention in history class instead of running around trashing your own neiborhoods and selling crack you would know this.- TAZ


--------------------
my tax dollars going to more hits of acid for charles manson


Edited by Lallafa (10/22/01 06:39 AM)


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Offlinemissulena
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #421635 - 10/11/01 12:55 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

So whats the other alternative, is it natural for gays to suppress there sex drive or force them to like something that they obviously dont?


Edited by missulena on 10/11/01 05:17 AM.



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InvisibleHarry_Ballsonia
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Posts: 45
Loc: Florida
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: babyshroom]
    #421676 - 10/11/01 03:01 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

No wonder your x-husband became gay, you sound like such a massive pain in the ass bitch. Hell your making me gay right now!! DAMN. Maybe you should stick to kitchen duties and stay on your knees.


I'm not as delicate as Innvertigo is, Homo's are just fucking gross.

There are 2 things in life i enjoy....sex and ah?....well one thing i guess.............................


--------------------
There are 2 things in life i enjoy....sex and ah?....well one thing i guess.............................


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Offlinebabyshroom
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Harry_Ballsonia]
    #421711 - 10/11/01 03:55 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

"No wonder your x-husband became gay..."

Yet another homophobe. To clarify, my x boyfriend was gay at birth. That is the point. Noone turned him that way. I, on the other hand, am the only female who made him want to TRY and be straight (to date). Quite the opposite of your interpretation, wouldn't you say?

"Homo's are just fucking gross."

To use your words, homophobic individuals are "just fucking gross".

"...you sound like such a massive pain in the ass bitch."

Why? Because I'm smarter than you?

Don't worry, Innvertigo, I haven't forgotten about you....

"Do you even think before you open your mouth? I thought you had a "high iq"?"

Actually, my i.q. is 127, with a manual dexterity i.q. of 129. I scored 100% on the memory portion of the test, which the doctor hadn't seen in 12 years of experience. The test was taken at 6 p.m. after a night of sleep deprivation for an eeg. It cost $1,200 17 years ago, so it was quite extensive. I've shown you mine, now show me yours.

"CAN A MAN AND ANOTHER MAN HAVE A NATURAL OFFSPRING?"

Well, I think MrKurtz handled this better than I can - "I really don't see the logic in this, sex is only natural because you have the chance of impregnating someone?...Is masturbation therefore unnatural and a choice?" Surely you wouldn't have us believe that you never masturbate, would you Innvertigo? If you do, then (by your own logic) YOU are having "unnatural" sex with yourself, correct?

"...has mensa called you yet?"

At one time, mensa's requirements were an i.q. of 140 or higher, I believe. So no, I'm not sitting by my phone waiting for their call.

"...when your ex popped his ah....boyfriend that was not (natural) because he does not have the ability to impregnate another male."

But you can impregnate your hand?

".....however she (Isis), and yourself included, don't know anymore about human nature and evolution than i do..."

Really, says who?

"You've already proved from your last post that you have the ability to process false logic so you can learn all you want..heaven knows you need it."

If I have such an ability to process false logic, I would surely be agreeing with you. Lord knows you take false logic to a new level.

"...you can't just say you were born that way because you THINK that there is proof..."

Actually, I can. You dispute my beliefs, and you have no more proof than I do. Less, in fact, because those who ARE gay know more than we do, and they agree with me. Aside from that, I never said there is no proof, simply that I don't have it. I don't believe it has been discovered yet. With science's recently acquired knowledge of dna, I have no doubt we WILL see evidence in our lifetimes. I don't expect it soon, as I'm sure science will initially concentrate on curing and preventing illness and death, but the day will come....

"...i have been the only one to state that the nature of procreation is my base for my stance..."

Then we can all agree that every time you jack off you are having "unnatural" sex with yourself, and exhibiting perverse behavior.

"Who said being gay is wrong?"

As you know, I was referring to your comments -- "...my x's brother was gay and told us that he found religion and he changed." Apparently, the church made him feel it was wrong. I made that conclusion based (in part) on your earlier statements - "most churches don't condone being gay" and "hell i remember once when i was in the church and the preist sad "Hate the Sin..not the sinner" towards homosexuality". I certainly never said being gay is wrong - quite the opposite, in fact.

"I have given examples that can be grasped...(procreation) the balls in your court."

Your "proof" still eludes me. You say people "choose" to be gay, because there is no scientific data to support a claim that they are born gay. If THEY should have to prove THEIR sexual persuasion, than so should we all. You say you were born straight. Prove it.

"you seem obsessed with anal sex..."

And you seem obsessed with homosexuality. The longer I debate with you, the more I wonder....?

Back to you...

On a side note, maybe we should start a second thread, out of consideration for those using dialup. This baby must be hell for them to open. Unless, of course, you would like to take this opportunity to admit that GAY PEOPLE ARE BORN GAY.

<a target="_blank" href=http://www.geocities.com/ralph1956_2000/ralphster44_FSR.html?988942758830> Support the Free Spore Ring </a><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by babyshroom on 10/11/01 07:57 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

Edited by babyshroom on 10/11/01 07:58 AM.



--------------------
I don't really know anyone who grows mushrooms. I just come here for fun.


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InvisibleHarry_Ballsonia
journeyman
Registered: 04/25/01
Posts: 45
Loc: Florida
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: babyshroom]
    #421742 - 10/11/01 05:23 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I'm not a homophobe. A homophobe means i'm scared of fags. I'm not in fear that they will come in the night to kick my ass.

As for your x boyfriend you must have been so much of a bitch that he had no choice but to suck a huge cock and take it up the poop chute because he knew that it was better then hearing about how smart you are. As for being the only female that he hosed. HA HA HA HA you must be dumber then i thought. hook line and sinker.



There are 2 things in life i enjoy....sex and ah?....well one thing i guess.............................


--------------------
There are 2 things in life i enjoy....sex and ah?....well one thing i guess.............................


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Invisibleisis
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Registered: 05/17/01
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Harry_Ballsonia]
    #422390 - 10/12/01 05:06 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

So, much for an intelligent discussion. Next...............



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Offlinebabyshroom
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: isis]
    #422894 - 10/12/01 02:23 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Agreed. Not even worth a response.

Support the Free Spore Ring


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I don't really know anyone who grows mushrooms. I just come here for fun.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: babyshroom]
    #422930 - 10/12/01 03:26 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

It looks like you've found a new friend in Harry.  I on the otherhand will let sleeping dogs lie.

*****Don't worry, Innvertigo, I haven't forgotten about you****

Whoa..am i lucky or what?  Since you scored 100% on the memory i knew you wouldn't

****I've shown you mine, now show me yours. *****

Never took the i.q. test though i've always wanted to.Never saw the need.... Closest i can come to an i.q. test would have to be the 3.95 GPA in both my Graduate and undergraduat studies.....

****I really don't see the logic in this, sex is only natural because you have the chance of impregnating someone?****

Yes....I'm not surprised you don't see the logic....

****But you can impregnate your hand? ****

your refusal to answer the question at hand only proves that you have no idea what the hell your talking about.  I think it's more of your inability to answer the question then your refusal.  You refuse to see the point i'm making because you have it in your head that there cannot be a possibility that it just might be a perversion and not a natural occurance.  Most people resort to the ever famous "what's natural?" response,  Masterbation isn't sex though you seem obsessed to discuss it.

****Lord knows you take false logic to a new level****

i offer examples you offer opinions....your whole base is false.

****Really, says who? ****

says me..with all things being equal ofcourse

****Actually, I can. You dispute my beliefs, and you have no more proof than I do. Less, in fact, because those who ARE gay know more than we do, and they agree with me****

That's where your wrong..the laws of nature are my proof.  Your basing your opinions on a couple gay people who are trying to justify their choices.  With your logic all i have to do is find a couple of gays who think i'm right and you'll change your beliefs.  That's pretty spineless.  I asked you what proof do you have when i state the laws of nature as MY proof...where's yours?...you have none.

****I have no doubt we WILL see evidence in our lifetimes. ****

What gives you that idea?  What are you basing this on?

The following is quoted from RailGun (a person who rarely agrees with me):

Why do you believe that there ever will be scientific or even anecdotal evidence supporting the claim made by homosexual organizations that the homosexual 'lifestyle' is genetically inherited?

You hold such a certain view on the future of geneticaly proving that that homosexual sex is genetic. So certain are you! Did Miss Cleo tell you or did you read it in a homosexual newsletter?

I cannot prove to you beyond the shadow of the doubt that homosexuality is inherited, because science has not proven that yet.

You can not prove it beyond saying 'It is so inherited' or 'The gay newsletter from the rainbow rights rally says so'. You can not prove it at all yet you accept homosexuality being genetically inherited as fact based soley on a baseless and irrational faith in homosexuality.


This has been repeated i'm knocking you down yo 90% memory;)

****You say you were born straight. Prove it. ****

Laws of nature..your turn...what do you base your beliefs on?

****And you seem obsessed with homosexuality. The longer I debate with you, the more I wonder****

so if I'M gay i'm wrong?..wow that's weird

I'm asking you what you base your beliefs on.  I BASE MY BELIEFS ON THE LAWS OF NATURE...I've told you mine..you haven't.

Don't confuse my non-belief of born traits with hatred towards gays.  I do not hate anyone, however i do have the right to disagree with HOW they became gay.  If you read back then you know my stance


Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick  *  there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinebabyshroom
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Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #422949 - 10/12/01 04:18 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

??the 3.95 GPA in both my Graduate and undergraduat studies??

Now THIS I find surprising. Did they teach spelling and punctuation at your college? If so, they really should have given you a 4.0 (sarcasm). I guess that logic class I had to take as a prelude to trig wasn?t a requirement in your school, huh? My straight A?s through 9th grade (at which time I quit and took a g.e.d. so I could support myself), just don?t measure up. Damnit.

?i offer examples you offer opinions....?

Examples? What examples? A relative who found religion and ?changed?? I?ve never disputed the fact that there are gay people attempting to live straight lives.

?..the laws of nature are my proof.?

Could you possibly provide a link to these so-called ?laws of nature?? I, for one, would be very interested in seeing the source of your extensive research.

?Your basing your opinions on a couple gay people who are trying to justify their choices.?

I think I?ve made it clear that I spent a number of years in the gay community. Many of my friends are gay (male and female), my next door neighbors are a gay couple, my daughter?s father is gay. None of them have ever tried to ?justify? their sexual persuasion, there was never a need for them to do so. However, I have had numerous conversations and several relationships with gay people. With the exception of one self-proclaimed bisexual female, none of them have ever seen their sexual persuasion as a ?choice?, any more than I chose to be a brunette.

?This has been repeated i'm knocking you down yo 90% memory.?

Repeated or not, it?s irrelevant. You?re touting another person?s opinion, which has nothing to do with my memory, or anyone else?s. I don?t agree with his quoted opinion any more than I agree with yours. You?re both entitled to said opinion, but it?s still just as incorrect as it?s always been.

??so if I'M gay i'm wrong?..wow that's weird.?

Funny, I never said such a thing. Where do you get that from? If you?re gay, you?re simply gay. Not right, not wrong, just gay. And if you ARE gay, you were born that way. Me thinks thou doest protest too much, Innvertigo?that?s the point I was trying to make. I?m sure other readers had no problem understanding what I was saying. You sure about that 3.95 gpa?

?I BASE MY BELIEFS ON THE LAWS OF NATURE...?

Again, where do these laws come from? Got a link? A reference source? Scientific facts to support said ?laws??

?Don't confuse my non-belief of born traits with hatred towards gays.?

I have no reason to accuse you of hatred, and wouldn?t think to do so. Nothing I have said could be misconstrued as having done so, so there is no reason for you to be defensive. If you SAY you don?t hate gay people, then I assume you are telling the truth.

??however i do have the right to disagree with HOW they became gay.?

Yes, you do. But that doesn?t make you right. You are as wrong now as you were at the beginning of this thread.


Batter up??




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--------------------
I don't really know anyone who grows mushrooms. I just come here for fun.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: babyshroom]
    #423006 - 10/12/01 06:10 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

****Did they teach spelling and punctuation at your college?****

OHHH...hit me where it hurts...my grammar skills...ouch...

****(at which time I quit and took a g.e.d. so I could support myself)****

oh that was a smart thing to do...was Mensa pissed? you must be a great example to your children....did you at least go to college so the world could benefit from your widow?

****Examples? What examples? A relative who found religion and ?changed.........****

Laws of nature....you still have not even gave me one example of proof because you have none.

****?Could you possibly provide a link to these so-called ?laws of nature?? I, for one, would be very interested in seeing the source of your extensive research****

The laws of nature consist of a species will to procreate and keep the blood line going, survival of the fittest etc...Now you're just being ridicules and denying facts.....maybe you should of stayed in school....they taught that in biology, but I guess your going to want the edition number to my biology book huh?

****I think I?ve made it clear that I spent a number of years in the gay community****

When I said a couple I was talking relatively. Man do I have to type in larger font next time? your little circle of friends don't have to justify their existence the way you are reacting, however giving reasons as to why they are gay without having any proof is.

****With the exception of one self-proclaimed bisexual female****

What?..did she say she chose to be bi?..that must have shacked your belief base....whatever that is..

****Repeated or not, it?s irrelevant. You?re touting another person?s opinion, which has nothing to do with my memory****

it does if you bring back the same ol' arguments

***Funny, I never said such a thing. Where do you get that from? ***

it was implied...and it was tongue-n-cheek as well...

****Again, where do these laws come from? ****

ahhh.....Nature.....where do you base your beliefs?..on your circle of friends?...the RAINBOW COALITION, TRIANGLE FOUNDATION...are you in fact in the closet and afraid that homosexuality is an oddity in the scheme of nature? or are you just trying to justify your way of life. I'm curious..why do you believe what you do?...I?m going to keep asking you this until you answer it, which you have neglected to do. I've already stated my base which is the laws of nature (you do the research...hell you need it) if you can't grasp the concept of nature then it is probably futile to argue with you.


I thought i would spellcheck my post for you so you'd understand and answer my questions;)

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick  *  there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....

Edited by Innvertigo on 10/12/01 10:19 AM.



--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleGrenade01
Registered: 09/26/01
Posts: 378
Loc: USA
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #423016 - 10/12/01 06:23 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Damn
this post has a lot of ....posts..
Why are you people to up to hate or dislike everyone
Damn just get along
well..I do agree about the hating clinton part
but other then that ;-)... I have a few gay friends and you know what...they are just the fucking same
.... kick back...watch a movie..drink beers...talk about funny times...
the nice thing is they are usually more open to talk about stuff ...so more pleasant to be around

I'm not afraid of dying. I'm just afraid of the pain that accompanies it.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Grenade01]
    #423029 - 10/12/01 06:36 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I don't hate Babyshroom at all....we just disagree on the topic of whether gays make the choice or are born that way. I know it really doesn't matter as far as the person goes but as long as there are people that claim they were born that way with no proof then these kids of debates will continue.

****the nice thing is they are usually more open to talk about stuff ...so more pleasant to be around****

what kinds of stuff?..i'm not being a smart-ass but I just want to know. What do they talk about that straits wouldn't talk about?


Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleGrenade01
Registered: 09/26/01
Posts: 378
Loc: USA
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #423219 - 10/12/01 09:58 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

no i wasnt accusing anyone specific about anything
in fact..i only read the first few messages of the thread
;-)

"But you may feel a little sick"

I'm not afraid of dying. I'm just afraid of the pain that accompanies it.


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #423336 - 10/12/01 11:49 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)


Dude, you keep asserting that your logic is flawless, but I don't think you've even come close to proving your point. Yes, yes "the laws of nature." You still haven't explained how homosexuality is a violation of the law of nature. Becaue they can't reproduce? I said it before and I'll say it agian: SO WHAT? What law of nature does that break? Please, tell me. Humankind has been doing it since history began to be recorded, which would also lead me to believe that they were doing it even before then. Other primates do it, as well as birds and some fish. IT HAPPENS all over the world, repeatedly, hence it is natural.



You have to understand the fact that humanity cannot break the laws of nature. We can make use of the laws of nature to produce, for example, a computer. Just because a computer does not occur spontaneously in a field does not mean it is natural. Are beaver dams unnatural because they are assembled by the beaver? The laws of nature not only determine humanity, and all of its actions, but the entire universe. Since homosexuality occurs in the universe, it is natural.


I'm not sure which philosipher was famous for first addressing the possibility that everything that exists or occurs is natural, but I'm sure you've encountered his writings in your extensive years of study.

"All energies flow according to the whims of the great magnet."
-Hunter S. Thompson


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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OfflineMrKurtz
enthusiast
Registered: 08/05/01
Posts: 303
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #423570 - 10/13/01 03:12 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

You talk alot about the "laws of nature", but then you say gay chimps are a sad excuse because we are totally different. So, please explain this to me? If the law of nature that we reproduce applies to us, then how come behaviour of other animals that doesn't support your "evidence" is totally irrelevant? You are probably not gonna answer this, cause you never answer things when you know you are wrong, but oh well.



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Invisibleisis
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Registered: 05/17/01
Posts: 484
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: MrKurtz]
    #423838 - 10/12/01 03:17 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Homosexuality is natural behavior. Homosexual behavior is found throughtout the animal kingdom. We, homosapiens are part of that kingdom. Homosexuality has always existed and always will. That is all there is to it.Maybe Innvertigo and some others are using a different definition of natural than we are using and that seems to be the case. I don't get the logic behind the reproductive arguement. Well, I get it but it doesn't fly.It is natural to reproduce. It is also natural not to be able to do so for many different reasons.Sterility is natural though not desired for the survival of a species. Mutations are natural. My point is that though something may not be perfect in your views it can still be a product of nature and thus it is natural.We don't need every single person spitting out babies. We have enough humans to guarrantee the survival of the species and that is all that matter as far as I'm concerned.
This is really not about natural behavior vs unnatural behavior. Homosexuality is a natural behavior.Maybe not one that some people like, but it is still natural.This is about people using the word natural interchangeably with of moral vs immoral.When people freak out and say homosexality is unnatural, they are really saying that they think it is morally wrong. That is fine if you think it is morally wrong. Just don't go basing your arguement on a blanket statement like "it is unnatural". That is a weak arguement that I hear all the time from conservative religious people.
It's just amazing how people can decide what the reasons and causes of someones behavior are without ever asking the people they are judging. If I want to learn more about African Americans, I go talk to African American people. If I want to learn about any group of people, I go find that group of people and ask them. If you want to know the reasons why people are gay, ask them.You will get different answers,and that is because human sexuality is an extremely complex issue.Are genetics involved? I say probably...Regarless, it's not all about genetics and it is not all about choice. Not just for gay people but also for straight people. We have been very focused here on the genetic aspect vs choice, but sexuality is much more complex than that. Why is a person heterosexual, bi sexual, transexual or homosexual?No one on this board will be able to answer that question. If it was as simple as looking at the xx or the xy, we would have it all figured out by now.
Peace



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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: MrKurtz]
    #424384 - 10/14/01 02:37 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

easy...we're not animals

****You are probably not gonna answer this, cause you never answer things when you know you are wrong, but oh well****

Not if an idiot is asking the questions...i've answered all the questions that are asked of me...but you don't like my answer..sounds like a personal problem to me


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Edited by Innvertigo (10/14/01 02:40 AM)


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OfflineMrKurtz
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #424581 - 10/14/01 06:51 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

"easy...we're not animals "

Thats still avoiding the topic, if its natural to reproduce and therefore everyone is born straight, then how come "natural" animals are gay?

"i've answered all the questions that are asked of me..."

Sure ya have.


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Offlinemissulena
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #424792 - 10/14/01 11:31 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

theres not much difference,
a bee isnt a giraffe because there are things that bees do that is unique to bees same as all species are unique but they are all still living animals the differances are really only superficial, under the microscope all living creatures including humans are basicly the same and have been classified as such-humans are mammals, i thought that was obvious to anyone

if you eat,drink,sleep,shit and have sexual urges your an anima or you imitate an animal rather welll if you dont i dont know what you are

Would you describe your life philosophy as a well thought out one?


Edited by missulena (10/14/01 11:35 AM)


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Invisibleisis
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: missulena]
    #425014 - 10/14/01 07:52 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

So, do you belive that we are not part of the animal kingdom?


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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: MrKurtz]
    #425034 - 10/14/01 08:17 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I think it's obsurd that people who claim you have to be something to know about something. First off animals aren't gay. just because 2 animals of the same sex hold each other does not make them gay....I could be wrong but i want to see an example of when animals are involved in homosexual sex..i wan't a specific example not an article written by the triangle foundation.

****i've answered all the questions that are asked of me***
***Sure ya have:***

It's not my fault your questions are absurdly ignorant...the questions you ask sound like they're coming from a little boy.


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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: missulena]
    #425039 - 10/14/01 08:25 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

****theres not much difference, a bee isnt a giraffe because there are things that bees do that is unique to bees same as all species are unique but they are all still living animals ****

Humans can reason, philosophixe(sp), evaluate logic, invent, and process calculations...etc. Animals cannot..sure they can do the minimum of some things humans excel in but that's their limit.

Maybe you're right...maybe homosexuals are animals...should we treat them like such?..perhaps zoos for homos would suffice.

****i thought that was obvious to anyone ****

only to those that hold animals equal to humans

****Would you describe your life philosophy as a well thought out one? ****
You wrote: if you eat,drink,sleep,shit and have sexual urges your an anima or you imitate an animal rather welll"

this is what you base your beliefs on?...wow your base is pretty lose...what is your base?..to this date noone has answered this...i've said over and over what mine is...even if you don't like it at least i've stated mine.


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Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

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Invisibleisis
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #425125 - 10/14/01 09:48 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Tell you what after this statement, "Maybe you're right...maybe homosexuals are animals...should we treat them like such?..perhaps zoos for homos would suffice."
I won't be trying to explain any of my thoughts to you.
Up to this point, I have enjoyed some of the exchange..even if I disagree with your opinions, but that statement actually hurt my feelings. Iam just glad that not everyone in this world holds the same views as you or we would be under even worst danger and presecution from closed minded individuals like yourself.It saddens me to see that there are people out there that feel as you do, because this only promotes the cycle of misinformation and hatred in our society that leads to actual discrimination,and physical assults and murders of homosexual people. It saddens me period that you have made that statement.


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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #425220 - 10/14/01 11:06 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Bonombo male and female chimps have homosexual sex on a regular basis. That means oral sex, manual sex, and even penetration. Sorry to mess up your concept of God's laws of nature, but it is a fact, which you can look it up if you can find your way to a book.


You said "i've answered all the questions that are asked of me..."


I really want you to answer, so I can have something to chuckle about, the question that I have asked you TWICE already: How does the fact that two men or two women are unable to conceive a child make sexual interaction between them an act that breaks the laws of nature? For a more thorough version of this question, refer to my last post in this thread.


3.95 GPA? Graduate and Undergraduate? What did you study, home ec? I'm calling your bluff.


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Invisibleisis
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: gluke bastid]
    #425241 - 10/14/01 11:21 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Elephants do also. They even keep the same partner.


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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: isis]
    #425416 - 10/15/01 02:18 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

****but that statement actually hurt my feelings.****

Well i can't control what does and doesn't hurt your feeligs, but you should also know that i don't feel that homosexuals are animals no more than i think that strait people are. Unfortunatly for you, there are people that believe that humans are animals and humans do include homosexuals so you do the math. I demonstrate ubsurdity with ubsurdity. I find most of the people arguing with me absurd.

****It saddens me to see that there are people out there that feel as you do****

Name one thing that i said that was false. the only closeminded people here are those that refuse to base their beliefs. What have i said that is wrong? At least i have tried to prove my poijt...you haven't. It saddens me that there are people who believe things by how they feel as opposed to what is real..

****It saddens me period that you have made that statement****

And it saddens me that people like yourself refuse to see the point behind absurd statements. It was obvious i was using others warped logic to make a point..maybe you agree with this warped logic...but i don't


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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: gluke bastid]
    #425432 - 10/15/01 02:33 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

****How does the fact that two men or two women are unable to conceive a child make sexual interaction between them an act that breaks the laws of nature****

well dipshit i've answered that question already with another person so i'll explain it to your pea brain one more time...the laws of nature are simple the reason species exist is procreation. Without it the species would die. Can you name me one species that is entirely homosexual that has been able to exist? I've save you the time and psycho babble NO. There is NO species that is made up of homo's that has lasted.

I base my belief on that. Perhaps the habits of homos are a form of a natural perversion but the act of homosexuality is not ie: if the world was full of homo's then the species would stop.

****3.95 GPA? Graduate and Undergraduate? What did you study, home ec? I'm calling your bluff. ****

Well i recieved my BA (GPA 3.93) (with a concentration in Accounting and Human Resources) at the University of Michigan and My MBA (GPA 3.97) with a concentration in Human Resources at the same University....your turn..so what crack house did you recieve your logic classes at?..

or do you live with your parents?



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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #425811 - 10/15/01 07:42 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

here's an ideal. if all you black people think you have it so bad in america, then why don't you go back to africa. God I'm soo sick of this shit. It was your own damn people who sold your black asses into slavery why don't you go and sue africa. this just goes to show how intelligent blacks really are. your so dumb that you don't even know who's fault it was for you being sold into slavery. maybe if you'd have paid attention in history class instead of running around trashing your own neiborhoods and selling crack you would know this.- TAZ


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Edited by Lallafa (10/22/01 06:39 AM)


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OfflineMrKurtz
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #425818 - 10/15/01 07:49 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I owned a lesbian horse before. It mounted other female horses quite often, and wouldn't let male horses mount her. Is this a good enough example for you? As for humans not being animals... why are we not animals? Because people aren't kept in zoos? Is that your proof? I know you're gonna say "we're not animals because we have free will." Well, I have seen plenty of people do stupid things because they acted on impulse, and if you are telling me you have never once acted on impulse rather then thinking something through then you're a liar. Just because we are intelligent animals, it doesn't mean we aren't animals. And, just because homosexuality would be considered a perversion, does that make it a choice and unnatural? People are born with extra fingers and so on, are they unnatural and did they choose to have extra fingers?


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Invisibleisis
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #425828 - 10/15/01 08:04 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Just thought I'd bring an animals' view into this.:)



Edited by isis (10/15/01 08:07 AM)


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Offlinemissulena
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: isis]
    #426013 - 10/15/01 10:57 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

yes, i believe humans are animals as does any person who knows the first thing about biology


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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Lallafa]
    #426072 - 10/15/01 02:58 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

****i have seen other primates have homosex on discovery****

Sure ya have

****and dolphins masturbate ****

So do strait humans..what's youre point.

****we are all unnatural by your standards*****

Only homosexuals..the past statement was tounge-n-cheek

****are you really afraid gays ****

i'm not afraid of anyone...why do you ask?


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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: MrKurtz]
    #426078 - 10/15/01 03:12 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

****I owned a lesbian horse before****

HA HA HA...sure ya did..did the horse enjoy field hockey and basket ball as well?...now you people are just being funny.

****why are we not animals? Because people aren't kept in zoos? Is that your proof****

I explained it a few posts back. Feel free to read prior post if you feel it is needed..try something new for a change.

****I know you're gonna say "we're not animals because we have free will." ****

and you'd be wrong...again

****Well, I have seen plenty of people do stupid things because they acted on impulse, and if you are telling me you have never once acted on impulse rather then thinking something through then you're a liar****

Why are you arguing about something that i haven't said?...maybe you should start a forum where you debate yourself. If you want to know something about my beliefs..ask me..unlike most people here, i'll tell you.

****And, just because homosexuality would be considered a perversion****

I'm glad you see it my way...welcome home..it took a while

****does that make it a choice and unnatural? ****

Perversions are choices we make...

****People are born with extra fingers and so on, are they unnatural and did they choose to have extra fingers? ****

apples and oranges my man...are you saying that being gay is a birth defect?...that person with that extra finger can still procreate....the homo cannot.

your beginning to bore me........


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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: isis]
    #426080 - 10/15/01 03:14 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

i have to admit it...but i laughed...


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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: missulena]
    #426098 - 10/15/01 04:09 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

****yes, i believe humans are animals as does any person who knows the first thing about biology ****

biology doesn't teach that animals are the same as humans.


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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #426166 - 10/15/01 05:56 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

here's an ideal. if all you black people think you have it so bad in america, then why don't you go back to africa. God I'm soo sick of this shit. It was your own damn people who sold your black asses into slavery why don't you go and sue africa. this just goes to show how intelligent blacks really are. your so dumb that you don't even know who's fault it was for you being sold into slavery. maybe if you'd have paid attention in history class instead of running around trashing your own neiborhoods and selling crack you would know this.- TAZ


--------------------
my tax dollars going to more hits of acid for charles manson


Edited by Lallafa (10/22/01 07:01 AM)


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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Lallafa]
    #426228 - 10/15/01 07:12 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

***this will be my last post on this thread***

Thank God...to this date you haven't made a valid point

****homolove is unnatural ****

Your right, it is

****masturbating is unnatural then****

you missed the point..too bad

****why are you singling out gays?***

Because that's the topic of discussion..do you want to talk Football?

***good day, and happy gay bashing ***

don't take it so personal..it's ok to be gay


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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #426514 - 10/16/01 01:55 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

"The laws of nature are simple the reason species exist is procreation. Without it the species would die."

This sounds more to me like reproduction of the species, which has to do with survival, not neccesarily the same thing as the laws of nature. Survival is a strategic concept, I.E. if every human was gay we wouldn't survive as a species. When you say, as you have numerous times, that homosexuality is a violation of the laws of nature, it implies that homosexuality is immoral, which is a completely different and more general argument (but one that most of us could still defeat unless you rely on the bible as your guide to morality).

Anyway, to rebutt against your survival argument:

Don't you think it is a pretty useless point that "without procreation the species would die" when you consider:
1) Only about 10% of our species is strictly homosexual and the rest of us tend to procreate.
2) We are living in an age of record population growth and the concept of us going extinct from lack of procreation is ridiculous.


"Biology doesn't teach that animals are the same as humans."

You see, Invertigo, it is the numerous comments such as these that just make me question the idea that you even went to high school, much less graduate school. What the fuck did you learn in biology?


As far as your question about my education, I am not going to say shit about that because it doesn't concern you. I didn't ask you where you went to school, I only mentioned your GPA because you did in a previous post. Suffice to say I went to school, it wasn't a crack house, and no, I don't live with my parents. Do you live with yours?


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:hst:
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but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
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Offlinemissulena
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #427053 - 10/16/01 12:04 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)


i dont even think your serious now i think your just having a bit of joke with us or something


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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Taz]
    #427057 - 10/16/01 12:17 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

How come you have to put your two cents in.. but you ask " A penny for your thoughts?"... Somebody is making a penny... ;)

:P Christian Nonsense... the same guy that sez "gays are bad!" has about 400megs in lesbian jpgs and mpgs on his computer...

I quote Dennis Leary... "Shut the fuck up!"

The only thing more evil than a gay person is the person who commits violence based upon a religious belief...
Which is a greater evil... being homosexual, or going to war and killing innocent people? The fact that the US treats minorities different than "Whites" is in fact racist itself... If you want to abolish racism... start treating everyone the same...


--------------------



To do a thing and know no better is ignorance.
It is an act of kindness to educate the ignorant.
To do a wrong thing intentionally, is evil and wicked.






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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: missulena]
    #427101 - 10/16/01 03:04 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

gee....what makes you think that?..it's not very hard :)


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Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineMrKurtz
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #427783 - 10/17/01 05:04 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

"****I owned a lesbian horse before****

HA HA HA...sure ya did..did the horse enjoy field hockey and basket ball as well?...now you people are just being funny. "

I did... is that your thing, when people prove you wrong through personal experience you call them liars?

"****I know you're gonna say "we're not animals because we have free will." ****

and you'd be wrong...again "

So what makes us different? Oh, btw, I just found this in one of your old posts "****I disagree with you in that we are animals. *****

Then you'd be wrong. We have free will and a moral foundation animals do not. We have deminion over the animals. Unless you are saying that homos are animals." You did say that.... got any more bullshit to contradict yourself with?

"apples and oranges my man...are you saying that being gay is a birth defect?...that person with that extra finger can still procreate....the homo cannot. "

Some people are born baron.. they can't reproduce. I am not saying it IS a birth defect, but it could be. At of all the possible reasons why people are gay... because they want to be is the least reasonable I have heard.

"Perversions are choices we make... "

And where is your proof of this?

"Why are you arguing about something that i haven't said?...maybe you should start a forum where you debate yourself. If you want to know something about my beliefs..ask me..unlike most people here, i'll tell you. "

Sorry if I assumed you would say something that actually made sense. I was explaining why I think people are animals.. because we act like them. Do you understand now?


Edited by MrKurtz (10/17/01 05:11 AM)


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: MrKurtz]
    #428252 - 10/17/01 04:22 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

****I did... is that your thing, when people prove you wrong through personal experience you call them liars? ****

Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?

****So what makes us different? ****

i'm not going to repeat myself..look at a few posts back i've already explained this. READ.

****Oh, btw, I just found this in one of your old posts "****I disagree with you in that we are animals. *****

Your point?..i thought i made it clear that we are not animals?..or do you think homos are animals?

****We have free will and a moral foundation animals do not. We have deminion over the animals. Unless you are saying that homos are animals." You did say that.... got any more bullshit to contradict yourself with? *****

ah...are you sure what your talking about? Where's the contradiction?...WOW are you all over the map.

****Some people are born baron.. they can't reproduce****

I find it really funny that you and others can't see the point i'm making. A person who is born "sterile" has a birth defect and cannot procreate because of that defect. Two perfectly healthy homos cannot conceive no matter what. The defect does not make that person "unnatural" because he can't procreate because without that defect he could. The homos will never conceive.

****I am not saying it IS a birth defect, but it could be****

for the sake of argument i'll say your right. But where's the proof? Defects can be determined...choices i guess can too.

****"Perversions are choices we make... " ......And where is your proof of this? *****

NAMBLA would be one choice sick fuckers make, dungeon love may be another....., exhibitionists, homosexuality...etc.

****Sorry if I assumed you would say something that actually made sense. I was explaining why I think people are animals.. because we act like them. Do you understand now? ****

just because others act like dogs, don't make them dogs...Humans have the ability to right wrongs and improve themselves through logic and situational analysis....animals don't



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OfflineMrKurtz
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #428665 - 10/18/01 01:57 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

"ah...are you sure what your talking about? Where's the contradiction?...WOW are you all over the map. "

I said that you would probably say "we are different because we have free will", and then you said i would be wrong... and then i see a few posts earlier you said we are different cause we have free will. So, wouldn't you consider that a contradiction?

"NAMBLA would be one choice sick fuckers make, dungeon love may be another....., exhibitionists, homosexuality...etc."

But you still don't know for a fact its a choice....

"i'm not going to repeat myself..look at a few posts back i've already explained this. READ. "

And when I restate what you say on the subject.. you say I'm wrong. Sorry for trying to understand you.

"just because others act like dogs, don't make them dogs...Humans have the ability to right wrongs and improve themselves through logic and situational analysis....animals don't "

Yes, we are smarter, does that make us completely different? Monkeys are smarter then fish, but they still are both animals. Animals learn just like us... just at a much more primative rate. If you feed a wild animal... it will come back. Is this not analyzing a situation? You must not spend any time at all around animals... or chose to only see what you want anyways.


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Invisibleisis
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: MrKurtz]
    #428892 - 10/18/01 05:47 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I'm not sure that there is room for debate over wether humans are animals or not. Again, I think that there's nothing to argue here. Advance as we maybe we are still part of the animal kingdom. This is a well stablished scientific fact. I would like for someone to show some scientific proof from a well stablished scientific journal that states the humans are not animals.  My research time and time again leads to the same: We are part of the animal kingdom. The definition of a primate is such: omnivorous, multi-purpose dentition,large brain,body position upright,five digit fingers and feet and stereoscopic vision. Primates are distributed throughtout Asia,Africa,South America. Humans are distributed worldwide.We belong to the family of hominids and to the  species of homosapiens. I would post a specific link,but any site you go to will state the same. Look up any scientific journal it will state the same. Look up university Biology sites and you will find the same info.So, I think I will skip on the  Innvertigo school of biology. I did some research and could not find one scientific journal that stated that humans are not animals.  Advanced we are, and the  ability to reason we  have.So, that makes us the most advanced animal in the world. That is all it makes us. This is a well establish and accepted fact in biology and in the scientific world. 
Kingdom Animalia (animals)
Phylum Chordata (chordates)
Subphylum Vertebrata (vertebrates)
Class Mammalia (mammals)
Order Primates 
Family Hominoidea (hominids)
Genus homo 
Species sapiens 

Oops..there's that homo word again.;)


Edited by isis (10/18/01 07:15 AM)


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Invisibleisis
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: isis]
    #428904 - 10/18/01 06:06 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I found this article in the Time archieves and thought I would share it. The only point Iam trying to make with these articles is that homosexual behavior in animals has been observed by others outside this board.The was a question raised as to wether homosexual behavior was truly observed in animals.

April 26, 1999

The Gay Side of Nature
Go to TIME.com Homepage >>


April 26, 1999

The Gay Side of Nature


Even as moralists and activists continue to debate homosexuality, many species casually practice it
BY JEFFREY KLUGER


Giraffes do it, goats do it, birds and bonobos and dolphins do it. Humans beings--a lot of them anyway--like to do it too, but of all the planet's species, they're the only ones who are oppressed when they try.

What humans share with so many other animals, it now appears, is freewheeling homosexuality. For centuries opponents of gay rights have seen same-gender sex as a uniquely human phenomenon, one of the many ways our famously corruptible species flouts the laws of nature. But nature's morality, it seems, may be remarkably flexible, at least if the new book Biological Exuberance (St. Martin's Press), by linguist and cognitive scientist Bruce Bagemihl, is to be believed. According to Bagemihl, the animal kingdom is a more sexually complex place than most people know--one where couplings routinely take place not just between male-female pairs but also between male-male and female-female ones. What's more, same-sex partners don't meet merely for brief encounters, but may form long-term bonds, sometimes mating for years or even for life.

Bagemihl's ideas have caused a stir in the higher, human community, especially among scientists who find it simplistic to equate any animal behavior with human behavior. But Bagemihl stands behind the findings, arguing that if homosexuality comes naturally to other creatures, perhaps it's time to quit getting into such a lather over the fact that it comes naturally to humans too. "Animal sexuality is more complex than we imagined," says Bagemihl. "That diversity is part of human heritage."

For a love that long dared not speak its name, animal homosexuality is astonishingly common. Scouring zoological journals and conducting extensive interviews with scientists, Bagemihl found same-sex pairings documented in more than 450 different species. In a world teeming with more than 1 million species, that may not seem like much. Animals, however, can be surprisingly prim about when and under whose prying eye they engage in sexual activity; as few as 2,000 species have thus been observed closely enough to reveal their full range of coupling behavior. Within such a small sampling, 450 represents more than 20%.

That 20% may spend its time lustily or quite tenderly. Among bonobos, a chimplike ape, homosexual pairings account for as much as 50% of all sexual activity. Females especially engage in repeated acts of same-sex sex, spending far more than the 12 or so seconds the whole transaction can take when a randy male is involved. Male giraffes practice necking--literally--in a very big way, entwining their long bodies until both partners become sexually aroused. Heterosexual and homosexual dolphin pairs engage in face-to-face sexual encounters that look altogether human. Animals as diverse as elephants and rodents practice same-sex mounting, and macaques raise that affection ante further, often kissing while assuming a coital position. Same-gender sexual activity, says Bagemihl, "encompasses a wide range of forms."

What struck Bagemihl most is those forms that go beyond mere sexual gratification. Humboldt penguins may have homosexual unions that last six years; male greylag geese may stay paired for 15 years--a lifetime commitment when you've got the lifespan of a goose. Bears and some other mammals may bring their young into homosexual unions, raising them with their same-sex partner just as they would with a member of the opposite sex.

But witnessing same-sex activity and understanding it are two different things, and some experts believe observers like Bagemihl are misreading the evidence. In species that lack sophisticated language--which is to say all species but ours--sex serves many nonsexual purposes, including establishing alliances and appeasing enemies, all things animals must do with members of both sexes. "Sexuality helps animals maneuver around each other before making real contact," says Martin Daly, an evolutionary psychologist at McMaster University in Ontario. "Putting all that into a homosexual category seems simplistic."

Even if some animals do engage in homosexual activity purely for pleasure, their behavior still serves as an incomplete model--and an incomplete explanation--for human behavior. "In our society homosexuality means a principal or exclusive orientation," says psychology professor Frans de Waal of the Yerkes Primate Center in Atlanta. "Among animals it's just nonreproductive sexual behavior."

Whether any of this turns out to be good for the gay and lesbian community is unclear. While the new findings seem to support the idea that homosexuality is merely a natural form of sexual expression, Bagemihl believes such political questions may be beside the point. "We shouldn't have to look to the animal world to see what's normal or ethical," he says. Indeed, when it comes to answering those questions, Mother Nature seems to be keeping an open mind.





Edited by isis (10/18/01 07:12 AM)


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Invisibleisis
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Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: isis]
    #428909 - 10/18/01 06:14 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Not everyone needs to breed "naturally" in order to be helpful. I found this article at the CNN site.

Gay birds of a feather parent together at Israeli zoo

Dashik and Yahuda, two male vultures, have raised two baby birds


VIDEO
CNN's Jerrold Kessel reports on a surprising development in a program to reintroduce vultures to the wild in Israel.

Windows Media 28K 80K

September 18, 1999
Web posted at: 7:24 p.m. EDT (2324 GMT)

From Correspondent Jerrold Kessel

JERUSALEM (CNN) -- Zoo keepers involved in an ambitious breeding program for endangered Griffin vultures are getting a helping hand from a vulture couple that, ironically, doesn't breed.

Keepers noticed that Dashik and Yahuda, two male vultures at Jerusalem Biblical Zoo, had built a nest together and were mating. So they decided to give the couple an artificial egg to see what would happen.

"They were sitting incubating perfectly," said the zoo's head keeper, Itzik Yadid. "If they are incubating so good, sharing between the two of them, the next step will be obviously to give them a chick to raise."

So far, Dashik and Yahuda have raised two baby birds, Diva and Adi Gordon, with results that exceeded expectations

"We're very proud of them. We think they've done a marvelous job," said bird keeper Sharon Sterling. "They've behaved extremely well, the best parents we've ever seen."

Keepers had initially thought about separating Dashik and Yahuda and trying to bring in a female to create a heterosexual vulture couple.


Dashik and Yahuda were given a chick to raise after they were given an artificial egg to incubate

"And then we said, 'Why should we do it? If they are together, if they are raising a chick together, why should we separate them?'" Yadid said. "So we decided to let them stay together and keep raising chicks together."

There is a reason beyond mere curiosity for seeking parenting help from the gay vultures. Normally, female Griffin vultures lay only one egg a year. But if the egg is taken from the mother, she will lay a second egg, a process known as "double clutching."

So by providing suitable surrogate parents for the eggs that are taken, bird keepers can increase the number of vultures that are bred.

Griffin vultures, once a common sight in the Mideast, have nearly disappeared. The zoo is trying to reintroduce them through the breeding program.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RELATED SITES:
Golan animal poisoning called 'ecological disaster' - The


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