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Offlinekidrhubarb
Stranger
Registered: 09/10/01
Posts: 20
Last seen: 21 years, 10 months
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #410123 - 10/01/01 01:13 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

"Aren't you telling people how to think?....that's my 2 cents"

and no, i was sharing my opinion, but thank you for looking out.
kidrhubarb-


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Offlinebabyshroom
addict
Registered: 09/09/01
Posts: 456
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 19 years, 10 months
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: kidrhubarb]
    #418345 - 10/08/01 02:35 PM (22 years, 4 months ago)

I know, you hate me for bringing this thread back to the top, but I couldn't stop myself. I have a perspective unlike most of the people who have participated in this thread, due to personal experience.
I am (by nature) a straight female...a very attractive female who was lucky enough to be born with a great body and a high i.q. I'm nearly 40 and I've been around the block a few times. Most of my relationships have been with straight men, but there have been exceptions. I once became friends with a man and found myself very attracted to him because of his sense of humor. I later found out (quite by accident--long story) that he was gay. He was (at that time) making every effort to be straight, and hide his past from me. I was the only woman he had ever made love to at the time, and, 16 years later, I am still the only female notch on his bedpost. He wanted and tried (desperately) to be straight. I wanted and tried (desperately) to understand what MADE him gay and how it could be "fixed". Not because I thought it was wrong, but because it made him unhappy.
During our on-and-off relationship, which spanned several years and produced my eldest daughter, I spent a great deal of time in the company of homosexual men and women. I made a great many friends of both sexes. Many of the women were quite feminine and attractive, certainly able to get a date with a man, if they so desired.
I did have several casual, short-term relationships with women during those years. Not to be "hip", but because I was attracted to those women, and they were attracted to me. A homosexual relationship is no different than a straight relationship. Homosexual people are no different than straight people.
Do gay people CHOOSE to be gay? In my experience, most of them do not. Yes, I did run across a few (women, especially) who chose to date women because they were previously unhappy in hetero relationships. They felt another woman would understand them better and be more responsive to their needs, and therefore chose to have lesbian relationships. Some of them considered themselves bisexual.
Am I gay because I had sex with women? No. I made a choice to experience that type of relationship, just as I made a choice to continue dating a man I knew to be (by nature) gay.
My x made every effort to be "straight", but he could not overcome the fact that he was BORN GAY. I did not leave him because he was gay, I left him because he tried to overcome his misery by using drugs and became a junkie. Perhaps I should say he left me, because he was never fulfilled by the relationship, regardless of how much he loved me. He could not deny the truth - he was BORN GAY.
I do believe that gay people are born that way, just like I was born a brunette. I can dye my hair and make people believe that I am a blonde. Gay people can hide their true sexual orientation and pretend to be straight. But underneath the dye job and the pretense, you still have a brunette and a gay person. I'm very thankful that I can be my real (brunette) self or my pretend (blonde) self without being discriminated against for either. I wish that gay people could say the same thing.
The only people who have any of the REAL answers on this subject are GAY PEOPLE!!! Read the thread, people. Isis states that she is, in fact, a lesbian. Why in the hell would anyone dispute her, if she says she was born gay? Why would you dispute anyone who says they are born gay?
Surely, if they had made a choice, they would know it.
And for those of you who find it so damned difficult to think about men having sex with each other, I'd like to know just exactly WHAT is so disgusting. Are you against kissing? If you do it yourself, then why shouldn't they? Are you against oral sex? I seriously doubt it, I've yet to run across a man who wouldn't drop his drawers in a SECOND to have his dick sucked. Intercourse? Of course you're not. Are you against anal sex? If it's okay for you to fuck your girlfriend/wife in the ass, then what do you find so terrifyingly horrid about a man having the same experience? There is nothing unnatural about homosexual or lesbian sexual activities. They are doing the same things you are doing in your own bedrooms. Or maybe not. If you are as close-minded as you sound (this is directed to the gay bashers above) you probably believe that the only "proper" way to have sex is the good old missionary position, with you on top pumping away until you're done.
Don't you ever EAT the mushrooms you grow? Being close-minded is a very unattractive trait in a person. Open your minds and you will be surprised what wonderful experiences life has to offer.



<a target="_blank" href=http://www.geocities.com/ralph1956_2000/ralphster44_FSR.html?988942758830> Support the Free Spore Ring </a>

Edited by babyshroom on 10/08/01 03:41 PM.



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I don't really know anyone who grows mushrooms. I just come here for fun.

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Offlinebwiti
Stranger
Registered: 10/08/01
Posts: 5
Loc: north-east America
Last seen: 20 years, 21 days
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Taz]
    #418378 - 10/08/01 03:10 PM (22 years, 4 months ago)

I'm a bisexual, but I don't cry for equal rights, because I already have them! Bunch of frigging cry-babies dipping their hands into Uncle Sam's pockets. Special rights for blacks will make many people angry, including me. When that happens, I guarantee that the concept of white supremacy will be the belief of many. What ever happened to equal rights? There are many weasils in this world, and America's their victim. Alot of people will be more than generous to a certain group to gain more votes. When the arabs wanted help when the jews were taking over, we ignored them, because the politicians were too busy kissing jew-ass. Look where we are now. We allowed the jews to steal land that was the arab's for over a thousand years! What the fuck did we expect! Those cheap jew, little bastards won't give up an inch of the arab's land back. They make all jews look bad. I hope they get invaded and many die, because they deserve it! Fuck Clinton and so called "liberals" with their favortism and selfishness!

I'm going to help all of you cleanse this diseased planet!


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I'm going to help all of you cleanse this diseased planet!

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OfflineMrKurtz
enthusiast
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 303
Last seen: 21 years, 11 months
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: bwiti]
    #418588 - 10/08/01 05:55 PM (22 years, 4 months ago)

Eh, are you joking or something?

As for the "special rights" for blacks, people made them because, if you don't have any knowledge of american history, just about all black people in america have slaves for ancestors. Black people were forced to work like animals, and when they got freedom, they were forced to live in poverty. Have you ever wondered why the majority of black people in america still live in ghettos? But, because people have been addressing the problems, its been getting better. So, are you saying you simply don't believe in compensation for injustices?


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: babyshroom]
    #419293 - 10/09/01 08:11 AM (22 years, 4 months ago)

I'll not comment, for the sake of argument, on the first 90% of your post because it's one person's observations.

****And for those of you who find it so damned difficult to think about men having sex with each other, I'd like to know just exactly WHAT is so disgusting.****

The act of two men engaging in sex (please read all the posts to see where i and others are coming from)

****Are you against kissing? If you do it yourself, then why shouldn't they? Are you against oral sex? I seriously doubt it, I've yet to run across a man who wouldn't drop his drawers in a SECOND to have his dick sucked...yadda yadda****

i'll bet you dimes to donuts that this isn't true if a guy wanted to suck off another guy

****There is nothing unnatural about homosexual or lesbian sexual activities. ****

no it's not....can gays reproduce?

****They are doing the same things you are doing in your own bedrooms. ****

that's not the point....the reason why many don't approve of it is because it never just stays in the bedroom...we are expected to accept it.  Quite frankly it's pretty close-minded to expect people to accept this.

****If you are as close-minded as you sound (this is directed to the gay bashers above) you probably believe that the only "proper" way to have sex is the good old missionary position****

The only closeminded people on this thread are those that can't accept that their are other views.  You seem to be obsessed with the sexual activities of others, which is fine by me because it's pretty rare in younger woman and you are in your sexual peak which may explain your new "open mindedness".  I prefer doggystyle myself...the more screaming the better;)

****Being close-minded is a very unattractive trait in a person*****

I agree, fortunatly for you we can't see you at this moment.

People have different views accept it....................

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick  *  there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Offlinebabyshroom
addict
Registered: 09/09/01
Posts: 456
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 19 years, 10 months
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #419486 - 10/09/01 11:31 AM (22 years, 4 months ago)

"can gays reproduce?"
Did you read my post? My daughter's father is a homosexual man. Before you jump up and say "what about lesbians", let me remind you that many heterosexual couples must revert to various medical remedies to combat sterility...lesbian couples have the same option.

"the reason why many don't approve of it is because it never just stays in the bedroom...we are expected to accept it."
I disagree. They DON'T expect YOU to accept it. You are quite obviously very close-minded and opinionated.

"Quite frankly it's pretty close-minded to expect people to accept this."
Look again, dear. YOUR mind is closed and triple locked. On the other hand, I am an American. I believe that EVERYONE has a right to their own political, religious and sexual beliefs and practices. That's what freedom is about, and that is why I live here.

"The only closeminded people on this thread are those that can't accept that their are other views."
Oh, I ACCEPT that there are other views, I just believe that many of those views are narrow, open only to their own interpretation of right and wrong.

"You seem to be obsessed with the sexual activities of others, which is fine by me because it's pretty rare in younger woman and you are in your sexual peak which may explain your new "open mindedness"."
As I said, the sexual activities of others is their own business, and whether they are open about those activities is their own choice. While I may be interested in my friends' RELATIONSHIPS (vs. sexual activities), I certainly do not see myself as obsessed. Neither do any of my friends, come to think of it. In addition, I would love to know what on earth makes you think my open mindedness is "new". My point of view comes from experience, not some mid-life transformation. I've spent plenty of time in gay and straight environments, and enjoy/ed the company of both groups.

"People have different views accept it...................."
Practice what you preach.


Support the Free Spore Ring


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I don't really know anyone who grows mushrooms. I just come here for fun.

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: babyshroom]
    #419524 - 10/09/01 12:06 PM (22 years, 4 months ago)

****My daughter's father is a homosexual man****

You missed my point.....can he mate with another man to have a baby?...no...ie: unatural.

****Before you jump up and say "what about lesbians", let me remind you that many heterosexual couples must revert to various medical remedies to combat sterility...lesbian couples have the same option. *****

What in the hell are you talking about? Sterility has nothing to do with whether or not someone has the ability to reproduce. Sterility is a choice, be it personal or medical to avoid having children. Please stay on point.

****I disagree. They DON'T expect YOU to accept it. You are quite obviously very close-minded and opinionated****

Opinionated..yes. Closeminded...i don't think so. If you've read the previous posts before going on your rant you would realize where my stance is on the homosexual lifestyle..i'm not going to repeat it because i've had to say it about 10 times..READ. There are many homo's that expect to be accepted.

****Look again, dear***

condescending eh?...i'm a little turned on......

****YOUR mind is closed and triple locked.****

eh?..triple locked..

****On the other hand, I am an American. I believe that EVERYONE has a right to their own political, religious and sexual beliefs and practices. That's what freedom is about, and that is why I live here.****

I'll refer you to my previous posts about where i stand...i agree with you. On the other hand don't expect everyone eles to accept your lifestyle....after all i am an American.

****Oh, I ACCEPT that there are other views, I just believe that many of those views are narrow, open only to their own interpretation of right and wrong.****

Your beginning to contradict yourself...Just as other people see your views as narrow-minded and open to your own interpretation of right and wrong....am i wrong?

****As I said, the sexual activities of others is their own business, and whether they are open about those activities is their own choice. ****

I agree

****In addition, I would love to know what on earth makes you think my open mindedness is "new". ****

It was tongue-n-cheek...sheesh relax

****My point of view comes from experience, not some mid-life transformation****

As does mine and many others. My point of view on homo's comes from my experiences, likes, dislikes..etc....but somehow people with a similar point of view are close-minded while you are not.

****Practice what you preach. *****

I challenge you to find one instance where i state that noone has the right to disagree with me.

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Offlinebabyshroom
addict
Registered: 09/09/01
Posts: 456
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 19 years, 10 months
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #419732 - 10/09/01 02:33 PM (22 years, 4 months ago)

"You missed my point.....can he mate with another man to have a baby?"

Why would he need to? He can mate with a woman. Surely you don't believe that gay men are unABLE to have sex with women!!

"Sterility is a choice, be it personal or medical to avoid having children."

Sterility is SOMETIMES a choice, and sometimes a very unfortunate medical condition. There are always alternatives, regardless of your sexual orientation.

"Please stay on point."

Well, son-of-a-bitch, let's take a good look at your posts, so we can see what the hell the point was! Oh yeah, I remember!!! And I quote from one of your earlier posts -- "well actually the beginning of this debate the question was if it was a choice to be gay or is it a born trait." And from an earlier post -- "All people are born hetero no matter what you think and they make the decision to be gay. I have no problem with someone being gay but please don't try to treat it like it is some sort of disease and you can't help it." and later in that post "Gays exist because they want to." Hmm...seems that I am RIGHT on point!! My original post was to dispute your belief that homosexuality is a choice. I don't believe it is true, neither do the many gay people I have discussed this with....the people who know more about this than either of us. Tell me, have gay people been TELLING you that they choose to be gay? The reproduction issue was also brought up by (hmmmm...who was that?....oh yeah!) YOU! If you don't want to discuss a subject, don't bring it up.

"Closeminded...i don't think so. If you've read the previous posts before going on your rant you would realize where my stance is on the homosexual lifestyle."
I did read your posts, and I quote them above. You are closeminded to the possibility that people are BORN gay.
Your so-called "proof" is supposedly contained in the following: "there are cases that prove this ie. someone being gay finding God and marrying a woman and having kids."
The fact that a man marries and copulates, thereby producing a child does not mean that being gay was a choice. That's ridiculous, Innvertigo! The fact that his dick got hard and emitted sperm does NOT, by any stretch of the imagination, prove that he was born straight and chose to be gay.

"condescending eh?...i'm a little turned on......"
As I remember it, you were also turned on when I wanted to send bleeding muslims (beaten by Americans because they celebrated the terrorism on our country) back to their own hell hole. Hmm.....perhaps a little dissection of your sexual preferences would make an interesting thread.

"Your beginning to contradict yourself...Just as other people see your views as narrow-minded and open to your own interpretation of right and wrong....am i wrong?"
Yes, you are wrong. I am totally open to the possibility that some people choose to live a gay lifestyle, even if they weren't necessarily born gay. Refer to my original post and you will see that I discuss that very thing.

"My point of view on homo's comes from my experiences, likes, dislikes..etc"
Okay, great. What are those experiences? I told you about mine, and why I am confident that some people are born gay. You have yet to come forth with some personal experiences that back up your insistence that being gay is a choice.

I really hesitate to bring this up, because it has been so long since I researched this subject that I don't remember all the correct medical terminology, nor do I remember the hormone in question. However, during my years in the gay community, I did read a great deal about the subject, in an attempt to better understand my x and his situation (i.e. wanting to be straight, but being unable to maintain that lifestyle for any period of time). I remember one study that found a very strong correlation between gay male children and gestational mothers who were very unhappy during their pregnancies. Research showed that a particular hormone is blocked (i.e. not released to the fetus) when a mother is emotionally distraught. The hypothesis was that the male child was born gay because he (as a fetus) was starved of the hormone. I found this very interesting, as my x's mother suffered great emotional trauma during her pregnancy with him. An older son (who was slightly retarded) was killed by a group of children - beaten to death. She found herself pregnant within days of the occurrence and felt herself unable to love another child, and unwilling to deal with the possibility that something might happen to another of her children. She told me herself that she cried throughout the pregnancy. So when I read about this study, and the ensuing hypothesis, I was intrigued, and felt the hypothesis might be very valid.

Since you have failed to produce one ounce of proof for your beliefs, I don't feel I have to PROVE this theory. However, it does offer a potential scientific REASON why people are born gay. Far more scientific reason than you have offered up as to why someone would CHOOSE to be gay.

Your turn.

Support the Free Spore Ring


--------------------
I don't really know anyone who grows mushrooms. I just come here for fun.

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: babyshroom]
    #419911 - 10/09/01 05:32 PM (22 years, 4 months ago)

****Why would he need to? He can mate with a woman. Surely you don't believe that gay men are unABLE to have sex with women!! ***

Now your avoiding the question...typical. If homosexuality is so natural why can't they reproduce with EACH OTHER?

****Sterility is SOMETIMES a choice, and sometimes a very unfortunate medical condition. There are always alternatives, regardless of your sexual orientation. ****

That was my point...and what the hell does sterility have to do with this subject anyways? You blab something that makes no sense then you blab on to another subject...yet again...stay on point.

****Well, son-of-a-bitch, let's take a good look at your posts****

Temper Temper..ha ha ha...would be a first time eh?

***Gays exist because they want to***

What's wrong with my statement? You cannot give me one shred of evidence that contradicts my stance..not one. Since the gays claim that they are born gay the burden of proof is on them. I state quite adamently that if you give me proof then i would change my point of view. To date this has not happened no matter what your over abundance of gay exposure tells you. Hell ISIS even admitted to it and she is a lesbian. Using your logic i can tell you that she knows more about the subject than you do so her confession stands....oh i don't hate ISIS either if your wondering..i just disagree with her life style that she has every right to live...man you sound bitter.

****You are closeminded to the possibility that people are BORN gay****

First of i've never said there isn't a possibility i just want to see proof...do you have it? Seems to me your the one who is Extremely closeminded......and selective in your reading..

***Your so-called "proof" is supposedly contained in the following: there are cases that prove this ie. someone being gay finding God and marrying a woman and having kids.****

So your telling me that my observation is wrong..hmmmmm...well my lovely little vixen my x's brother was gay and told us that he found religion and he changed just as my example states. Are you telling me that he is still gay? For the sake of argument lets say he still is....if a guy decides one day you know i find men attractive and falls in love with another man can it be agreed upon that he is a hetro because he was hetro at birth. Is he gay or hetro?...it's one or the other, you can't have it both ways.

****As I remember it, you were also turned on when I wanted to send bleeding muslims (beaten by Americans because they celebrated the terrorism on our country) back to their own hell hole. Hmm.....perhaps a little dissection of your sexual preferences would make an interesting thread. ****

Ha Ha...it sure would make for an interesting discussion. However i hate to disappoint you but i'm all hetro..if you'd like to discuss it make sure you PM me..it might be worth it..ha ha..

trying to attack me just makes me more interested

***I really hesitate to bring this up, because it has been so long since I researched this subject..................yadda (insert psycho babble here) yadda ****

You really shouldn't of brought this up because it's just proving my point a little further. Is thi the scientific proof that you are arguing with? Many mothers who are unhappy during pregnancy give birth to perfeclty fine baby's. Surely this hormone that you have studied would be listed somewhere in a medical journal that would explain your diatribe...can i have the name of that journal?

I'm sure these people that you know that were unhappy are fine and nice people but after reading that all i could think to myself is Liberal Psycho Babble. A lot of people use this to try to explain and justify why something has happened. Kind of like the theory or the bear repellant elixer i bought...ever since i bought it i haven't been attacked by bears....and since i was unhappy during pregnancy that explains him being gay or mentally challenged.

****So when I read about this study, and the ensuing hypothesis****

simply a guess

***Since you have failed to produce one ounce of proof for your beliefs, I don't feel I have to PROVE this theory***

Great counter...you'd be a great lawyer ha ha.......Unfortunatly the burdun of proof isn't on me. I believe that Homosexuality is a Perversion. The people that are doing it are fine in my book and they have every right to live the way they want. I on the other hand think it's a choice...to date there has been no evidence to the contrary. I will give you credit you have been the first one to attempt it...even with the psycho babble.

***Far more scientific reason than you have offered up as to why someone would CHOOSE to be gay.****

not really.....they choose to because they want to.

Now don't get upset at me because i don't agree with you. I even have friends that i don't agree with (if you can comprehend that). I have had pleasent conversations with ISIS in my PM's and feel she's a very nice person, that's not in dispute. Don't change this argument into a you hate this and you hate that format because that's not the issue. I hate noone. My purpose at the beginning was to see how long it would take before someone would admit that there was no scientific proof that gays were born gay. ISIS in one of her last posts admitted it, and i think no less of her for it..acyually i respect her more for it. She is the first gay i've meet that have admitted it......maybe one day you will as well

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleLallafa
p_g monocle
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 2,598
Loc: underbelly
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #420062 - 10/09/01 07:27 PM (22 years, 4 months ago)

here's an ideal. if all you black people think you have it so bad in america, then why don't you go back to africa. God I'm soo sick of this shit. It was your own damn people who sold your black asses into slavery why don't you go and sue africa. this just goes to show how intelligent blacks really are. your so dumb that you don't even know who's fault it was for you being sold into slavery. maybe if you'd have paid attention in history class instead of running around trashing your own neiborhoods and selling crack you would know this.- TAZ


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my tax dollars going to more hits of acid for charles manson

Edited by Lallafa (10/21/01 09:38 PM)

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Lallafa]
    #420500 - 10/10/01 06:16 AM (22 years, 4 months ago)

****i dont think homosexuality is any more "unnatural" than heterosexual perversions/fetishs such as anal sex and squirting sperm in a girls mouth... ****

It's unnatural when we're talking procreation.

****and i think using your logic, humans are pretty unnatural in general...****

Humans...at least a majority of them are unnatural

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Invisibleisis
addict
Registered: 05/16/01
Posts: 484
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #420522 - 10/10/01 07:01 AM (22 years, 4 months ago)

Gosh, I just read my name a number of times......What to say..I think I've said it all. The man wants concrete scientific proof and we have none...That is all there is to that.
However, I still hold to my views that homosexuality is an inherited trait and thus not something that we just decide we want to be. Innvertigo still holds that it isn't a trait and it is just a choice people make. Neither one of us can "proof" the other wrong.
I hate to say it Innvertigo, but if your x-brother(I think that is who it was) was truly gay then he is probably still gay. He is just fighting his nature. Then again, he could be bi-sexual and thus truly happy. One would hope that is the case..for his sake.

Edited by isis on 10/10/01 08:02 AM.


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Offlinebabyshroom
addict
Registered: 09/09/01
Posts: 456
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 19 years, 10 months
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #420532 - 10/10/01 07:49 AM (22 years, 4 months ago)

Oh goodie, something to do while my desk is clean.

?Now you?re avoiding the question...typical. If homosexuality is so natural why can't they reproduce with EACH OTHER??

Where do you get the notion that the only kind of ?natural? sex must include reproduction? All sex is natural. The desire isn?t bought or manufactured, it just IS. Natural feelings, natural desires, natural acts. Hetero, homosexual or perverse, all sex is natural.

?That was my point...and what the hell does sterility have to do with this subject anyways??

Actually, Innvertigo, you introduced the subject of reproduction. My example of sterile heterosexual couples was made simply to open your eyes?.the fact that a couple cannot reproduce does not make their relationship wrong or unnatural. Don?t worry, I get it now?your eyes are glued shut.

?You blab something that makes no sense then you blab on to another subject...yet again...stay on point.?

Hmm?talking to yourself again? You really should see someone about that.

?Temper Temper..ha ha ha...would be a first time eh??

Trust me darling, if I were pissed you would most assuredly know it.

?Since the gays claim that they are born gay the burden of proof is on them.?

You claim they are not born gay. I say the burden of proof is on you. They are speaking from personal experience, and you insist that you know them better than they know themselves. I say your stance is harder to believe than theirs, so let?s see your proof. Prove to me that you were born straight.

?Hell ISIS even admitted to it and she is a lesbian. Using your logic I can tell you that she knows more about the subject than you do so her confession stands.?

Actually, what Isis ?admitted? to was being unable to PROVE to you that she was born gay. And I quote ?Now, how can I prove that I was born gay? I can't prove that to you. How can you prove that you were born straight?? and one further quote ??it is mighty big of you to tell me that I don't know why I'm really gay. I was born gay. It's that simple.? Oh, please do continue using my logic. Then we can BOTH AGREE that Isis knows more about homosexuality than either of us. It would stand to reason that you and I should BOTH listen and learn. Isis?

?First of I've never said there isn't a possibility, I just want to see proof.?

Oh really? Well then it must be time to quote another of your previous posts!

?All people are born hetero no matter what you think and they make the decision to be gay.?

Hmm?that sure sounds like you're saying there isn?t a possibility. That?s okay, though. As long as you?re starting to see it my way, I?ll forgive your previous unsubstantiated narrow-minded view. And in another previous post?

?Gays exist because they want to.?

Again, I don?t see where you ?never said there isn?t a possibility?. Who?s contradicting himself now? And just one more?.

?My original statement is they choose to be gay.?

Yes, you?ve made it quite clear that you USED to believe that all people are born straight. But NOW you admit that there IS a possibility. Congratulations, Innvertigo, you?ve made a step in the right direction.

??my x's brother was gay and told us that he found religion and he changed??

As I?ve stated earlier, the fact that a person makes a choice to live a straight life does NOT negate the fact that they were born gay?the original topic of discussion, if I read your previous posts correctly. By the same token, if a person is born straight and chooses to live a gay lifestyle, it does not negate the fact that they were born straight. People are what they are. Your x?s brother made a choice to live a straight lifestyle. It?s a shame that religion made him feel that being gay is wrong. Being gay is no more wrong than being white, black, short or tall.

?if a guy decides one day you know I find men attractive and falls in love with another man can it be agreed upon that he is a hetero because he was hetero at birth. Is he gay or hetero??

If that guy tells you he is heterosexual, than yes, he is heterosexual. If he tells you he is gay, then he is gay. He is the only one who knows what he feels, much less what he has felt since birth. Many gay people feel/know they are gay, but attempt to live straight lifestyles because of the pressures they feel from society, a desire for acceptance and/or the knowledge/belief that they will be judged and condemned by family and friends. The lifestyle a person chooses to lead does not change the way they were born.

?My purpose at the beginning was to see how long it would take before someone would admit that there was no scientific proof that gays were born gay. ISIS in one of her last posts admitted it, and I think no less of her for it. Actually I respect her more for it. She is the first gay I've met that has admitted it......?

Funny, I?ve never had a gay person tell me that there is scientific proof that they were born gay. Where do you find all these gay people who tout scientific proof, Innvertigo? If they are required to prove that they were born gay, than surely you should be required to prove that you were born straight. Since you insist that gay people should prove their homosexuality, I challenge you to prove that you were born straight. Prove to me that you have no desire to hug a man, kiss a man or even feel his dick in your ass. Go ahead, big boy, prove it.



<a target="_blank" href=http://www.geocities.com/ralph1956_2000/ralphster44_FSR.html?988942758830> Support the Free Spore Ring </a>

Edited by babyshroom on 10/10/01 08:56 AM.



--------------------
I don't really know anyone who grows mushrooms. I just come here for fun.

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: babyshroom]
    #420864 - 10/10/01 02:10 PM (22 years, 4 months ago)

****the fact that a couple cannot reproduce does not make their relationship wrong or unnatural***

Do you even think before you open your mouth? I thought you had a "high iq"? It's like trying to talk to 4 year old...you seem to be stuck on avoiding the questions being asked because not only is your mind closed but your brain is closing as well. If you can't answer a question with a somewhat relative answer, why respond at all?..sheesh.

I'll ask again i'll put it in caps if you want. mind you we're talking about two perfectly healthy people. CAN A MAN AND ANOTHER MAN HAVE A NATURAL OFFSPRING....I know you won't answer this so i'll answer it for you. NO. Everything in nature has the ability to procreate (even if they don't want to...short of just not having that ability due to a defect) and this can NOT be denied.....but i'm sure you have some psycho babble to counter.

****Hmm?talking to yourself again? You really should see someone about that****

Great counter. That iq must be higher then i thought...has mensa called you yet?

****Trust me darling, if I were pissed you would most assuredly know it.****

ha ha ha oh would I? Would that mean you would stop using psycho babble and actually make sense?

****You claim they are not born gay. I say the burden of proof is on you...... Prove to me that you were born straight. ****

My proof lies in nature and the ability to procreate....when you popped a puppy out that was natural.....when your ex popped his ah....boyfriend that was not because he does not have the ability to impregnate another male. Seems to me that I have the only evidence that can't be disputed...oh and don't try the "monkey's in africa are gay" argument..that is so sad.

****I was born gay. It's that simple****

Prove it

****Then we can BOTH AGREE that Isis knows more about homosexuality than either of us.****

She does know more about being a homosexual than i do...because shes a homosexual.....however she, and yourself included, don't know anymore about human nature and evolution than i do....remember you don't have to be something to know something about it...i've never been in outer space but i know a lot about it.

****It would stand to reason that you and I should BOTH listen and learn. Isis? ****

You've already proved from your last post that you have the ability to process false logic so you can learn all you want..heaven knows you need it.

****All people are born hetero no matter what you think and they make the decision to be gay.? ........Hmm?that sure sounds like you're saying there isn?t a possibility. *****

Yet again you miss the point.............it really doesn't matter what you think, if there is no proof you can't just say you were born that way because you THINK that there is proof...keep up little lady

****Gays exist because they want to.? .............Again, I don?t see where you ?never said there isn?t a possibility?. Who?s contradicting himself now? ****

I don't see the contradiction...you still have no proof.

****?My original statement is they choose to be gay.? .............Yes, you?ve made it quite clear that you USED to believe that all people are born straight****

OHHH clever insertion of words..however my statement stands because i have been the only one to state that the nature of procreation is my base for my stance....your base is from some gay that decided to screw someone else...who knows it could of been your fault he's gay..ha ha..i'm beginning to see why...

****Being gay is no more wrong than being white, black, short or tall. ****

Who said being gay is wrong?....domn't compare being gay with the color of a person..that is quite rediculus

****Funny, I?ve never had a gay person tell me that there is scientific proof that they were born gay****

Because there is none

****Where do you find all these gay people who tout scientific proof, Innvertigo? ****

sigh.......i never said they did..go back and READ.

****I challenge you to prove that you were born straight. ****

I have given examples that can be grasped...(procreation) the balls in your court

****kiss a man or even feel his dick in your ass. Go ahead, big boy, prove it****

you seem obsessed with anal sex...man are you a scat freak?...Big boy?......man you are really showing your age now. you can do better i'm sure you can...

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Offlinegluke bastid
Stinky Bum
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 3,322
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 5 years, 4 months
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #420891 - 10/10/01 02:31 PM (22 years, 4 months ago)


To answer your question "CAN A MAN AND ANOTHER MAN HAVE A NATURAL OFFSPRING?"


No. They can't. So what?

"All energies flow according to the whims of the great magnet."
-Hunter S. Thompson


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine

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OfflineMrKurtz
enthusiast
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 303
Last seen: 21 years, 11 months
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #421245 - 10/10/01 07:31 PM (22 years, 4 months ago)

well, do you ever answer the actual questions asked? You take on a strange interpretation of her words, twisting them to make her sound stupid.

"My proof lies in nature and the ability to procreate....when you popped a puppy out that was natural.....when your ex popped his ah....boyfriend that was not because he does not have the ability to impregnate another male. Seems to me that I have the only evidence that can't be disputed...oh and don't try the "monkey's in africa are gay" argument..that is so sad. "

I really don't see the logic in this, sex is only natural because you have the chance of impregnating someone? Does the idea of possibly impregnating someone turn you on or something? I know it sure as hell doesn't for me. The idea of holding a lover and having an orgasm does. Its human nature to enjoy sex, not enjoy impregnating people. Is masturbation therefore unnatural and a choice? Hell, I didn't even know what masturbation was until i first did it.


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InvisibleLallafa
p_g monocle
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 2,598
Loc: underbelly
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: gluke bastid]
    #421249 - 10/10/01 07:40 PM (22 years, 4 months ago)

here's an ideal. if all you black people think you have it so bad in america, then why don't you go back to africa. God I'm soo sick of this shit. It was your own damn people who sold your black asses into slavery why don't you go and sue africa. this just goes to show how intelligent blacks really are. your so dumb that you don't even know who's fault it was for you being sold into slavery. maybe if you'd have paid attention in history class instead of running around trashing your own neiborhoods and selling crack you would know this.- TAZ


--------------------
my tax dollars going to more hits of acid for charles manson

Edited by Lallafa (10/21/01 09:39 PM)

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Offlinemissulena
enthusiast
Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 251
Last seen: 22 years, 4 days
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #421635 - 10/11/01 03:55 AM (22 years, 4 months ago)

So whats the other alternative, is it natural for gays to suppress there sex drive or force them to like something that they obviously dont?


Edited by missulena on 10/11/01 05:17 AM.


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InvisibleHarry_Ballsonia
journeyman
Registered: 04/25/01
Posts: 45
Loc: Florida
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: babyshroom]
    #421676 - 10/11/01 06:01 AM (22 years, 4 months ago)

No wonder your x-husband became gay, you sound like such a massive pain in the ass bitch. Hell your making me gay right now!! DAMN. Maybe you should stick to kitchen duties and stay on your knees.


I'm not as delicate as Innvertigo is, Homo's are just fucking gross.

There are 2 things in life i enjoy....sex and ah?....well one thing i guess.............................


--------------------
There are 2 things in life i enjoy....sex and ah?....well one thing i guess.............................

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Offlinebabyshroom
addict
Registered: 09/09/01
Posts: 456
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 19 years, 10 months
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Harry_Ballsonia]
    #421711 - 10/11/01 06:55 AM (22 years, 4 months ago)

"No wonder your x-husband became gay..."

Yet another homophobe. To clarify, my x boyfriend was gay at birth. That is the point. Noone turned him that way. I, on the other hand, am the only female who made him want to TRY and be straight (to date). Quite the opposite of your interpretation, wouldn't you say?

"Homo's are just fucking gross."

To use your words, homophobic individuals are "just fucking gross".

"...you sound like such a massive pain in the ass bitch."

Why? Because I'm smarter than you?

Don't worry, Innvertigo, I haven't forgotten about you....

"Do you even think before you open your mouth? I thought you had a "high iq"?"

Actually, my i.q. is 127, with a manual dexterity i.q. of 129. I scored 100% on the memory portion of the test, which the doctor hadn't seen in 12 years of experience. The test was taken at 6 p.m. after a night of sleep deprivation for an eeg. It cost $1,200 17 years ago, so it was quite extensive. I've shown you mine, now show me yours.

"CAN A MAN AND ANOTHER MAN HAVE A NATURAL OFFSPRING?"

Well, I think MrKurtz handled this better than I can - "I really don't see the logic in this, sex is only natural because you have the chance of impregnating someone?...Is masturbation therefore unnatural and a choice?" Surely you wouldn't have us believe that you never masturbate, would you Innvertigo? If you do, then (by your own logic) YOU are having "unnatural" sex with yourself, correct?

"...has mensa called you yet?"

At one time, mensa's requirements were an i.q. of 140 or higher, I believe. So no, I'm not sitting by my phone waiting for their call.

"...when your ex popped his ah....boyfriend that was not (natural) because he does not have the ability to impregnate another male."

But you can impregnate your hand?

".....however she (Isis), and yourself included, don't know anymore about human nature and evolution than i do..."

Really, says who?

"You've already proved from your last post that you have the ability to process false logic so you can learn all you want..heaven knows you need it."

If I have such an ability to process false logic, I would surely be agreeing with you. Lord knows you take false logic to a new level.

"...you can't just say you were born that way because you THINK that there is proof..."

Actually, I can. You dispute my beliefs, and you have no more proof than I do. Less, in fact, because those who ARE gay know more than we do, and they agree with me. Aside from that, I never said there is no proof, simply that I don't have it. I don't believe it has been discovered yet. With science's recently acquired knowledge of dna, I have no doubt we WILL see evidence in our lifetimes. I don't expect it soon, as I'm sure science will initially concentrate on curing and preventing illness and death, but the day will come....

"...i have been the only one to state that the nature of procreation is my base for my stance..."

Then we can all agree that every time you jack off you are having "unnatural" sex with yourself, and exhibiting perverse behavior.

"Who said being gay is wrong?"

As you know, I was referring to your comments -- "...my x's brother was gay and told us that he found religion and he changed." Apparently, the church made him feel it was wrong. I made that conclusion based (in part) on your earlier statements - "most churches don't condone being gay" and "hell i remember once when i was in the church and the preist sad "Hate the Sin..not the sinner" towards homosexuality". I certainly never said being gay is wrong - quite the opposite, in fact.

"I have given examples that can be grasped...(procreation) the balls in your court."

Your "proof" still eludes me. You say people "choose" to be gay, because there is no scientific data to support a claim that they are born gay. If THEY should have to prove THEIR sexual persuasion, than so should we all. You say you were born straight. Prove it.

"you seem obsessed with anal sex..."

And you seem obsessed with homosexuality. The longer I debate with you, the more I wonder....?

Back to you...

On a side note, maybe we should start a second thread, out of consideration for those using dialup. This baby must be hell for them to open. Unless, of course, you would like to take this opportunity to admit that GAY PEOPLE ARE BORN GAY.

<a target="_blank" href=http://www.geocities.com/ralph1956_2000/ralphster44_FSR.html?988942758830> Support the Free Spore Ring </a><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by babyshroom on 10/11/01 07:57 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

Edited by babyshroom on 10/11/01 07:58 AM.



--------------------
I don't really know anyone who grows mushrooms. I just come here for fun.

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