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OfflineDinoMyc
Ipsa scientiapotestas est
Registered: 11/14/99
Posts: 1,080
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #365438 - 08/02/01 06:08 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

im not going to comment any farther than this:
think of two children, argueing with each other:
"i know you are, but what am I?"
<<Yes they do. You said that the second incidence contridicts the first and you know that's wrong. Quite trying to make the bible fit YOUR beliefs. >>

just an observation, you can believe whatever you wish.

If I made affront, I apologize.
If I made affirmation, I apologize.
I merely came to listen, came to say.


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If I made affirmation, I apologize.
I merely came to listen, came to say.


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InvisibleBeery
newbie

Registered: 08/01/01
Posts: 49
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: DinoMyc]
    #365444 - 08/02/01 06:13 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Actually, I'm using reason, logic, and sources to back up my argument, while my opponent is merely using prejudice.

Please don't condemn me out of hand based on your own prejudices

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Beery]
    #365461 - 08/02/01 06:54 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

****Well, whatever it is, you do appear to be in an emotional state. ****

no..i would consider myself rational not emotianal..please don't flatter yourself

****Well, ignorance is far better than stupidity****

and you seem to being a good job walking that line

****Your hatred and fear of homosexuals is irrational too. You just refuse to admit it and instead you cite the Bible in an attempt to justify your irrational feelings of disgust. ****

Am i missing something or are you illiterate? When did i say i HATE the people who are homosexuals? And fear/ what does fear have to do with anything. The left wing wackjobs like to say if you don't except our why you're scared of it. That's plain stupid.

Who's citing the bible? you are not I...I base my beliefs from observations not the bible..get over it. I don't use the bible to make homosexuality discusting...gays do a great job themselves

***Well, I'm not the one who brought religion into this****

Nor did i at the beginning

****while we explore the basis of your 'discust'****

2 men having anal sex, kissing, flamming out and blowing each other is just plain discusting......yet again i'll repeat it again..i hate the ACT not the man....understand?

****In what regard? Besides, it's funny that you should level a charge of hypocrisy when you claim to be a Christian, but you find homosexuals 'discusting'. *****

In the reguard that they (the gays) don't accept the beliefs of those that oppose being gay but we are supposed to accept their beliefs...is this hard to understand?

where's the hypocracy? What people who believe in God can't accuse lefties of being a hypocrite. I hope your not thinking i'm the kind of person who doesn't judge people because i do...and i have no problem doing it either. I don't live a life of the "perfect christian" so you might as well drop the idea that those that believe in God are passive and accepting of the gay way of life.

****but you find homosexuals 'discusting'.****

sigh...........i hate the act of homo sexuals not the person doing it.....we all make mistakes....even christians.

****What beliefs do 'homos' have that show intolerance? *****

That many "christian" organizations find homosexuality very, very wrong...ass opposed to accepting the choice that the gays have made......hell i remember once when i was in the church and the preist sad "Hate the Sin..not the sinner" towards homosexuality.

****You seem to know a lot of these 'homos'****

not really..i've only known you for a day or two.

****Hehe, a Christian homophobe telling me that I'm a walking contradiction. Boy, I've heard everything now. *****

how is a christian who doesn't agree with homosexuality a contridiction?...you've lost me there

****Actually, I'm using reason, logic, and sources to back up my argument****

the only sorce you mentioned was the bible and i believe i made myself somewhat clear to where i base my opinions. As forreason and logic..ha ha ha..that's a good one

****while my opponent is merely using prejudice****

i'm not prejudice towards gays...it's what they do

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleBeery
newbie

Registered: 08/01/01
Posts: 49
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #365506 - 08/02/01 08:04 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

"Am i missing something or are you illiterate? ...The left wing wackjobs like to say if you don't except our why you're scared of it. That's plain stupid. "

Erm, calling me names isn't going to make you look any smarter. I'm quite certain of my not being illiterate, ignorant, or stupid. Usually, those accusations are bandied about by those to whom they apply.

"Who's citing the bible? you are not I..."

Erm. So far you've cited the bible at least twice in defence of your argument. Heck, you even quoted the bible:. You said 'both of those instances condem "lying with your brother"'. You also said 'You said that the second incidence contridicts the first and you know that's wrong'. Those are instances of you citing the bible in defence of your point. It seems clear now that not only are your arguments illogical, but you also have problems remembering what you write from one day to the next.

"I don't use the bible to make homosexuality discusting...gays do a great job themselves"

How?

***Well, I'm not the one who brought religion into this****

"Nor did i at the beginning "

I never said you did.

"2 men having anal sex, kissing, flamming out and blowing each other is just plain discusting......yet again i'll repeat it again..i hate the ACT not the man....understand? "

Yes, you have to repeat it, but not because I'm stupid, ignorant, or illiterate. You see your opinion regarding gays is illogical. Your argument seems to go something like this:

Gays engage in anal intercourse. Anal intercourse is disgusting. Gay acts are disgusting

The problem is, not all gays engage in the acts you describe, and some heterosexuals do. Why are you targeting gays for acts, many of which are enjoyed by heterosexual folks? Do you think straight sex is disgusting too?

"... they (the gays) don't accept the beliefs of those that oppose being gay but we are supposed to accept their beliefs...is this hard to understand? "

It's hard to understand why you find the above so hypocritical. Gays don't have to be accepting of the beliefs of those who oppose being gay. There's no gay philosophy that preaches tolerance. However, Christianity demands tolerance.

"...I hope your not thinking i'm the kind of person who doesn't judge people because i do...and i have no problem doing it either."

So you admit you're not a Christian.

"I don't live a life of the "perfect christian""

Sounds to me like you don't live the life of a Christian at all.

"...so you might as well drop the idea that those that believe in God are passive and accepting of the gay way of life. "

Those who believe in Christ actively (not passively) accept the gay way of life. Christ demands it. That's not to say that Christians have to BE gay, but they have to accept gays into the community.

"sigh...........i hate the act of homo sexuals not the person doing it.....we all make mistakes....even christians. "

That's very clear.

"...many "christian" organizations find homosexuality very, very wrong...ass opposed to accepting the choice that the gays have made......hell i remember once when i was in the church and the preist sad "Hate the Sin..not the sinner" towards homosexuality. "

Homosexuality is not a sin. Intolerance is.

****You seem to know a lot of these 'homos'****

"not really..i've only known you for a day or two. "

Hehe, my wife will get a kick out of that one. I love it when folks make assumptions about my sexuality just because I defend homosexuality. Again, we see your use of illogic:

'Beery defends gay people, therefore Beery is gay.'

Now we can see how easy it is for you to think you know something about someone when you don't know a thing. Again, that's evidence of how you arrive at conclusions using illogic and unreason.

"how is a christian who doesn't agree with homosexuality a contridiction?...you've lost me there "

Christianity and intolerance are mutually exclusive. You can't be one and the other at the same time. You have to decide whether to be a Christian or whether to be intolerant.

"the only sorce you mentioned was the bible and i believe i made myself somewhat clear to where i base my opinions. "

You made it clear that you base your opinions on observation, but that isn't a valid reason. Besides, how many homosexual acts have you witnessed? It seems to me that it's unlikely that you've ever witnessed a homosexual act. If that's the case, how could you base your opinion on observation?

"As forreason and logic..ha ha ha..that's a good one "

I hardly think you're qualified to judge.

****while my opponent is merely using prejudice****

"i'm not prejudice towards gays...it's what they do"

What? I'm sorry, but does that non-sentence make any point?

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Edited by Beery on 08/02/01 12:26 PM.



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InvisibleBeery
newbie

Registered: 08/01/01
Posts: 49
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Beery]
    #365527 - 08/02/01 08:36 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I'm afraid you're going to have to explain to me how you logically get to your opinion that 'gay acts are disgusting'. Best to bring in some reality to the discussion, rather than opinion and subjective observation.

Oh, and I'd love you to try to prove to me your assertion that I'm actually gay, just using my past posts from which to base a logical argument. Of course, I'm asking for the impossible, but watching you try would be fun.

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Invisiblesuperpimp
The boss of thefamily

Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 8,706
Loc: Philadelphia/NYC
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: isis]
    #365574 - 08/02/01 09:36 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I hate Clinton, but that cartoon sucks. I'm not even sure what the point of it is. Who is driving the sub exactly, and why does it have an Oakland Raiders logo on the periscope. Ayway, I can't complain about any of Clinton's policies, cause he never had any, and the stuff he did believe in, he could never turn it into policy because he was so inept. I am looking forward to the next twenty years of him though, because it will be fun to watch his endlessly buffoonish behavior now that he is out of office and can't do any damage anymore.

I did acid once, white boy gave it to me. He said "you gonna be trippin", I said Shit, I ain't goin' nowhere without my luggage. -Richard Pryor


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Beery]
    #366119 - 08/03/01 03:24 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

****I'm afraid you're going to have to explain to me how you logically get to your opinion that 'gay acts are disgusting'****

Do i have to repeat myself again? I find two men having sex discusting. It's as simple as that...it's called an opinion. I don't need to explain WHY i observe the things i do. I gues if i have to explain why i am the way i am then i would have to say that it's not natural. They can't produce offspring for one thing...just the thought of it is making me sick. The thought of them having sex (they do have the right to do in their own privacy) just irks me to the bone. I by no means think that they should stop it because i think it's discusting...they have the right to do what they want, just as i have the right to think what i think.

****Best to bring in some reality to the discussion, rather than opinion and subjective observation. ****

well actually the beginning of this debate the question was if it was a choice to be gay or is it a born trait. I proclaim it's a choice. So far their has been no evidence on the contrary.

****Oh, and I'd love you to try to prove to me your assertion that I'm actually gay****

It's called a joke..i don't really think your gay but MAN you sure are sensative around that subject so ya never know...sheesh relax you don't have to explain.....

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleBeery
newbie

Registered: 08/01/01
Posts: 49
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Innvertigo]
    #366132 - 08/03/01 04:33 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

"Do i have to repeat myself again?"

Apparently.

"I find two men having sex discusting. It's as simple as that...it's called an opinion. I don't need to explain WHY i observe the things i do."

You do if you expect to be taken seriously. You keep saying that you 'observe' these things. How many gay people have you observed engaging in 'gay acts'? Since you place so much emphasis on your observations you must have seen plenty. Or perhaps you're speaking from personal experience? Or maybe you're just lying - maybe to you 'observation' is merely another word for 'prejudice'.

"I gues if i have to explain why i am the way i am then i would have to say that it's not natural."

But that's not true. Male chimpanzees have been observed engaging in anal intercourse in the wild.

"They can't produce offspring for one thing..."

So what? Humans engage in sex primarily for pleasure, not only to produce offspring.

"just the thought of it is making me sick. The thought of them having sex (they do have the right to do in their own privacy) just irks me to the bone."

So what? Why do we have to know what your personal opinions are on this matter (especially since you grant that they have the right to do it)? The taste of Brussels Sprouts makes me sick, but I don't find myself going on about it in public forums.

"I by no means think that they should stop it because i think it's discusting...they have the right to do what they want, just as i have the right to think what i think."

You have every right to think what you think. But bringing your thoughts to a public forum such as this means that you want to disseminate your ideas. If your ideas are patently wrong and poorly thought out, it's my duty (not just my right) to criticise those ideas. Also, if you bring your ideas into a public forum, you should be willing to accept criticism and defend your ideas using logic. Unfortunately, you aren't prepared to do so. You know what they say about opinions - they're like assholes - everyone has one. The fact that you have an opinion is no argument. The fact that you back up your opinion with vague talk about 'observation' doesn't help, and the fact that you call people who disagree 'stupid' (1 instance), 'ignorant' (3 instances) and 'illiterate' (2 instances) only serves to make you look stupid yourself, especially since your spelling leaves something to be desired.

****Best to bring in some reality to the discussion, rather than opinion and subjective observation. ****

"well actually the beginning of this debate the question was if it was a choice to be gay or is it a born trait. I proclaim it's a choice. So far their has been no evidence on the contrary."

So what? The question is irrelevant.

****Oh, and I'd love you to try to prove to me your assertion that I'm actually gay****

"It's called a joke..i don't really think your gay but MAN you sure are sensative around that subject so ya never know...sheesh relax you don't have to explain....."

Even if I was gay, it wouldn't make any difference to the validity of my argument. You always need to turn to (supposed) insult (NEWSFLASH - I'm not insulted by accusations of being gay) and false characterizations when you're losing the argument. You keep characterizing me using various words or phrases that you think will irk me. It hasn't worked yet, and the more you post, the plainer your ignorance and bigotry becomes to the (very) few who care to read this thread.

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Invisiblesuperpimp
The boss of thefamily

Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 8,706
Loc: Philadelphia/NYC
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Beery]
    #366146 - 08/03/01 05:13 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

People who spend as much time as you do obsessing on gay people usually have a lot of personal issues about the subject that they have to work out for themselves. Most of the guys I knew in High School who were avid queer stompers eventually came to accept their desire for man to man love by their mid 20's. I think you secretly crave cock. Think about it.

I did acid once, white boy gave it to me. He said "you gonna be trippin", I said Shit, I ain't goin' nowhere without my luggage.
-Richard Pryor


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OfflinePhyl
old hand
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 597
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 13 years, 8 days
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Beery]
    #366148 - 08/03/01 05:17 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

You do if you expect to be taken seriously.

Different people have different opinions. Simple as that. I don't agree with Innvertigo's opinon on this matter, but there is no point arguing as to who is right and who is wrong. There is no right or wrong about it.

Personally I don't have any kind of problems with homosexuality, I think it's fine between consenting adults. I do however have a problem with beastiality. I think its disgusting, just as Innvertigo thinks homosexuality is disgusting, yet many people see both as perfectly acceptable sexual behaviour. We all make our own judgements based on our own beliefs, and we all create our own lines differentiating between what is right and wrong. Can we not just accept that? To discriminate against a person because of their sexual (or other) beliefs is definately wrong, but as innvertigo has also stated this, and says that it's only the 'act' of homosexual sex that he finds disgusting, I really dont see what the issue is.

Take care

Phil



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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Beery]
    #366152 - 08/03/01 05:22 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

****Apparently****

maybe your short term memory is faultering...my mistake i'll try to type things twice for you.

****You do if you expect to be taken seriously****

my goal isn't to be taken serious by you...you don't hold that much interest..sorry to burst your bubble

****How many gay people have you observed engaging in 'gay acts'? ****

observations don't have to be first person..my observations on abortion are that it's wrong but i've never seen one done.

****Or perhaps you're speaking from personal experience? Or maybe you're just lying ****

Talk about the Pot calling the kettle black..sheesh did my comments bother you that much? Sheesh relax if your lashing out at me to hide something you can stop now...you don't need to explain...

****Why do we have to know what your personal opinions are on this matter ****

you asked smart guy...wow are you slow. If you don't want to know something then don't ask. Is that simple enough for ya?

****But that's not true. Male chimpanzees have been observed engaging in anal intercourse in the wild****

They are animals not humans...are you saying gays are animals? Because i certainly don't..talk about bigotry..sheesh

****The taste of Brussels Sprouts makes me sick, but I don't find myself going on about it in public forums****

i like brussel sprouts and you can go on about it as long as you like..you have that right...

****You have every right to think what you think. But bringing your thoughts to a public forum such as this means that you want to disseminate your ideas***

Well first off you asked. You have a bad habit of asking things you really don't want to know...nothing says that you have to read these messages...you have the right to turn off your computer if you like. Noones forcing you to read it.

****If your ideas are patently wrong and poorly thought out****

how can opinions be wrong?...talk about a fun governor....relax

****you should be willing to accept criticism and defend your ideas using logic. Unfortunately, you aren't prepared to do so****

I do accept criticism but that doesn't mean that i have to accept it. Are you a control freak? If asked my opinion then you HAVE to accept it as MY opinion. If you want to debat the original intent of theis forum "ARE GAYS BORN THAT WAY OR IS IT A CHOICE" Then i am game..i'm noticing a trend coming from you that is trying to avoid it..why?

****'ignorant' (3 instances) ****

ignorant means you don't know...is that an insult?...i guess i could count the times you've used bigot and predjudice but what would be the point..man are you sensative.

****especially since your spelling leaves something to be desired****

Oh man now you'r knocking my grammer..ahhhhhhhhhhhh. that's low and that hurts. man am i depressed now.

iz tis bettr?

I guess that shows just how petty your observations are.

****So what? The question is irrelevant****

well you know that was the discussion and if you'd like to discuss it then fine if not then you really don't have to get involved if you don't like it

****Even if I was gay, it wouldn't make any difference to the validity of my argument****

man are you hiding something? I said you weren't gay drop it..man are you paranoid...or are you? hmmmm

****NEWSFLASH - I'm not insulted by accusations of being gay****

yet you find every instance to deny it..relax your hetro

****You keep characterizing me using various words or phrases that you think will irk me. It hasn't worked yet, and the more you post, the plainer your ignorance and bigotry becomes to the (very) few who care to read this thread.****

You guessed it. That was my plan all along. I wanted to make you mad at me....your not that important


Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleBeery
newbie

Registered: 08/01/01
Posts: 49
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Phyl]
    #366159 - 08/03/01 05:33 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

"Different people have different opinions. Simple as that. I don't agree with Innvertigo's opinon on this matter, but there is no point arguing as to who is right and who is wrong. There is no right or wrong about it. "

But there is right and wrong about it. If no-one stands up to this kind of silliness there is no contrary position and these opinions get broadcast to a public who may not have an opinion on the matter and who may not be aware that this kind of anti-homosexuality is a minority view. Opinion can be persuasive, no matter how based in fact it may be. It is most certainly wrong to ignore flawed philosophy in the hope that it will go away. There are many examples in the past which show that bigotry has gone unnoticed too long, and before people really knew what was happening, it became state-sponsored bigotry. At that point people start dying. By then it's too late.

Evil flourishes only when good people do nothing to stop it.

Anyway I've said my piece. Innvertigo will keep posting his rubbish, but we all know he hasn't added a shred of evidence to support his conclusions, nor has he bothered to use logic to reach those conclusions. That's one definition of bigotry.

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Edited by Beery on 08/03/01 09:37 AM.



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OfflinePhyl
old hand
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 597
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 13 years, 8 days
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Beery]
    #366182 - 08/03/01 06:11 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

But there is right and wrong about it. If no-one stands up to this kind of silliness there is no contrary position and these opinions get broadcast to a public who may not have an opinion on the matter and who may not be aware that this kind of anti-homosexuality is a minority view.

So what you're saying is that it's alright for you to have a contaraty opinon to him, but it's not alright for him to have a contarary opinion to you? Why? Because you are in the majority, so you must be right?
I remember seeing a quote in someones sig file over at the lycaeum which said something along the lines of 'Sometimes the majority just means that all the idiots are on the same side'.

Last time I looked we had the right to free will and free speech. We should be free to make our own opinions, and express our opinions to others. We are not babies, we do not need protecting from the 'Evil minorities'.

Without oposition, people are not able to create their own opinions. I say let innvertigo shout his head off. Let him express his opinions to the world. People will see his opinions, people will see your opinions, and will then make up their own minds.

You may believe your opinions are right and proper, and you are acting in the greater good, but no matter which side you are on, trying to force your opinions onto others is just wrong.

Anyway, this is all a bit irrelivent because Innvertigo isn't say he hates gays, he's saying that he finds the act disgusting. How is this different to you saying it's disgusting to give a horse a blow-job?

Take care

Phil

Edited by Phyl on 08/03/01 10:14 AM.



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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Beery]
    #366191 - 08/03/01 06:39 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Maybe it's a communication problem on my end..or maybe us both. I have people around me that are gay (meaning they work within day to day activities). Here's my stance.

1. I would hire a homosexual if they qualified for a job, not because they were gay
2. I have socialized with homosexuals in a social situation and was cutious
3. I think that they should be left alone by those that want to beat them up for it.
4. they have the same or should have the same human rights i do.
5. I think gays should be accepted for who they are and not because they are gay
6. I think gays should realize there are many people who are opposed to the gay lifestyle
7. By hating the Act and loving person shows tolerance
8. Christians have the right to express their opinions towards their lifestyle
9. I do not support the gay lifestyle, however i believe they should be allowed to do so
10. gays should show tolerance towards christians who don't support that way of live and visa versa.

i hope this clears it up for ya. Does this still make me a bigot?

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleBeery
newbie

Registered: 08/01/01
Posts: 49
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
Re: For all U Clinton Lovers [Re: Phyl]
    #366380 - 08/04/01 12:22 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Beery: "But there is right and wrong about it. If no-one stands up to this kind of silliness there is no contrary position and these opinions get broadcast to a public who may not have an opinion on the matter and who may not be aware that this kind of anti-homosexuality is a minority view."

Phyl: "So what you're saying is that it's alright for you to have a contaraty opinon to him, but it's not alright for him to have a contarary opinion to you? "

Perhaps I should have used 'reactionary' rather than 'minority'. The point (which you seem to be missing) is that if his opinion went unanswered (as presumably it would be if I wasn't here), some folks might be of the opinion that it was a commonly held view on this forum that homosexuality was disgusting. That might have swayed some folks without an opinion on the matter to see that viewpoint as normal and perhaps even desirable as an opinion. It's not like it hasn't happened before, and on a larger scale.

It's not a question of freedom of speech. I'm not arguing that he should be quiet. On the contrary, I'm arguing that others should speak up!

Phyl: "Anyway, this is all a bit irrelivent because Innvertigo isn't say he hates gays, he's saying that he finds the act disgusting. How is this different to you saying it's disgusting to give a horse a blow-job?"

Firstly, I wouldn't necessarily say it was disgusting to give a horse a blow job. It's unethical, but whether it's disgusting is a matter of opinion. The point is, if we're going to shout opinions over the internet, we should be willing to defend them. Innvertigo is not. I am. That's the difference. Innvertigo engages in mindless rhetoric, I engage in reasoned debate. If you can't tell the difference, you're part of the exact problem I'm trying to illustrate.

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Edited by Beery on 08/03/01 04:35 PM.



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InvisibleCaptain Jack
i [heart] you

Registered: 01/24/00
Posts: 4,113
i think we should all shut the fuck up [Re: Beery]
    #366590 - 08/04/01 10:44 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

A) Leviticus should never be referenced for a moral code. Take the time to read the whole book. There's an awful lot in it about how to properly sacrifice animals when you sin. It says you can eat cows but not pigs. It's a pretty fucked book.

B) Another Bible tidbit: Judge not lest ye be judged. Good for all to think about, Christian or not. Saying that someone's lifestyle is disgusting (even if you're not hating the person, just the act) is a judgment. So is calling some ignorant and a bigot.

C) If you guys would stop trading stupid insults and worthless arguing (all the shit that has nothing to do with anything - debate about spelling, calling someone gay, etc), you would spend a lot less of your time in this stupid fucking post. You could I don't know....go outside or something.

D) Read the subject of my post.

http://www.captainjackmusic.com


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InvisibleBeery
newbie

Registered: 08/01/01
Posts: 49
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
Re: i think we should all shut the fuck up [Re: Captain Jack]
    #366593 - 08/04/01 10:57 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Firstly, you're absolutely right about Leviticus. The Bible itself denies its validity (in the book of Hebrews).

Secondly, I don't think 'Judge not lest ye be judged' really applied to human characterizations like 'you're a bigot'. Christ called people worse names, as did the disciples, as did Paul. I think the passage more correctly applies to judgements that are rightfully the domain of God (i.e. sin). But you could be right. I haven't studied that passage in a while.

(later addition) You're right (I just looked at the passage again). Sorry about that. I should not have judged Innvertigo. That is not my right. We all are judged based on the judgement we mete out to others. Thanks for pointing that out to me.

Lastly, I agree with you on your point c. That's why I had stopped arguing with Innvertigo ("just when I thought I was out they pull me back in").

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Edited by Beery on 08/04/01 03:11 AM.



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Invisibleisis
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Registered: 05/17/01
Posts: 484
Re: i think we should all shut the fuck up [Re: Beery]
    #366907 - 08/05/01 05:57 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Just one thing about the choice issue: Do heterosexuals have a choice about their heterosexuality? Do you straight people feel that you have choosen to be straight? Can you turn around and suddendly become gay. I don't think you can.I don't think you want to,because you were probably born heterosexual. To suggest to me that I chose to be gay and thus can chose not to be is crazy. That's like me telling you, you can be gay. Would it sound ridiculous if I tried to convince you that you are a hetero by choice. Isn't liking women something that comes natural to you. It sounds so ridiculous to me when some one else tries to tell me the reasoning for my own actions. If I was bi-sexual then yes I would have a choice. But even then, you don't necessarily have control over who you fall in love with. Innvertigo, you have no knowledge about why gay people are gay or wether they have a choice or not. You are clueless on this matter.You state your opinion, and you have that right. The only thing you know is that you are straight and that is all you can understand. If you want to understand other people or what drives them then ask them. You should listen to their answers. Only a gay person can answer the question of was it your choice to be gay or were you born that way. You are not qualified to answer that. In a few post gay people have attemted to explain to you that they were born gay.You turn around and say no you were not.That's just ignorant. Now, how can I prove that I was born gay?I can't prove that to you.How can you prove that you were born straight?But when you have 5 yr olds already knowing they
are gay..You tell me.Is not like any of my friends had gay influences of any kind.No gay uncles,no gay movies,two straight married parents.Christian parents....Yet, it's the same story all of them knew at a very young age. How does this enviroment create a gay child?.
Now, if you don't like what two boys do together that is your right not to like it.If you don't like the idea of two women in bed, then fine. But it is mighty big of you to tell me that I don't know why I'm really gay.I was born gay. It's that simple.

Edited by isis on 08/04/01 10:10 PM.

Edited by isis on 08/04/01 10:19 PM.



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InvisibleBeery
newbie

Registered: 08/01/01
Posts: 49
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
Re: i think we should all shut the fuck up [Re: isis]
    #366975 - 08/05/01 07:46 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

"Just one thing about the choice issue: Do heterosexuals have a choice about their heterosexuality? Do you straight people feel that you have choosen to be straight? "

How can anyone tell. Presumably, if it was some kind of 'choice', it could take years to manifest itself. There are basically 3 options - it could be a trait you're born with; it could be a learned trait, taking years from birth through adolescence; or it could be a simple choice.

Personally, I think the idea of it being a simple choice (like a flick of a switch) is laughable. The other alternatives are far more likely. Either way, the process is irrelevant. Once you're gay, you're gay. Once you're straight, you're straight. It doesn't matter how you get the way you are. What's important is that you're treated with the respect you deserve as a human being.

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Invisibleisis
addict
Registered: 05/17/01
Posts: 484
Re: i think we should all shut the fuck up [Re: Beery]
    #367061 - 08/05/01 11:46 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

You are right Berry. People should be treated with respect. Intolerance towards any group of good individuals is not acceptable.



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